T/G flooring.....

[David Nelson1]

One of my projects for the house is new flooring. I ran across a great deal on 800 bdft of red oak. That would be enough to do the bedrooms and all the closets. My questions really have to do with tooling.

I just purchased a JET JWS-22CS Shaper from a fellow Creeker and would like to outfit it with a power feeder. I have looked @ Grizzly and they seem to have 2 offerings G4176 1/4 HP Power Feeder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-4-HP-Power-Feeder/G4176) and the G4173 Baby Power Feeder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Baby-Power-Feeder/G4173) that might fit my needs. I just don't know enough about what it takes to drive the stock on a shaper. Could use a little help here. 2nd would be what type cutter to use, a moulder or shaper style head?

I know better than to buy a cutter that is not designed for flooring because of the nail recess and the gap that is needed to allow the top of the boards to mate properly. I have found this from Amana SC450 Shaper (http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/flooring-shapercutters.html)

It's seems that the gullets cut from the back side of the lap or pretty much discretionary by most accounts I have read. Some think its to reduce the weight for shipping, while other seem to think it helps lay the lap flat. Either way I think I'll do it just to stay safe. Any idea of how to accomplish this task in one step?

I have linked a thread from 2 years ago that might shake some cobwebs loose. http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=75863

Thanks in advance

[Joe Chritz]

Insert stealth gloat here in 3,2,1.....

A feeder's real short fall is in the weight and stiffness of the arm assembly and of the wheels ability to exert down force. I had a baby feeder which works OK but is definately not heavy duty.

I just picked up a 1 HP, 4 wheel, 8 speed Accura/Comatic feeder from fleabay. The stand alone on this one weighs as much as the entire unit of the baby feeder.

You will be much happier saving your pennies and getting something 1/2 HP or bigger. Even buying new the cost from 1/2 to 1 HP was very small and I got an extra wheel. As it turns out the 1HP was less than a new 1/2 HP.

I guarantee you won't ever say, I wish I bought a smaller feeder.

Joe

[David Nelson1]

Thanks for the tip Joe. I can see where weight could be a prime factor in traction. I just worried about the footprint of the feeder on the machine. Guess I need to keep looking for specs if that's possible.

[Rod Sheridan]

I agree with going with the 1/2 HP feeder.

I've had a 1/2 HP feeder for a few years, it's a nice size for a home shop as it's stiff enough to provide enough hold down force.

Don't worry about power, at the speeds the feeder moves material, 1/2 HP is enough to pull your car out of a hole, so it will have no problem moving a door panel along the shaper.

I have mine on a tilt away bracket, however on a single purpose machine like a shaper you would simply drill and tap the holes in the rear left corner of the shaper.

You'll really like having a shaper, it improves the quality of the cut, and your safety.

Regards, Rod.

[David Nelson1]

Morning Rod,
I was just getting ready to PM you. In the tread that I posted from a few years ago you mention adding a shim against the aux fence to produce the same width stock ?? Did I get that right? Can your clarify that? I am having a mental block and can't picture the technique.

[Joe Chritz]

I only mentioned the 1 HP feeder because if you are buying new it is (from grizzly) a $125 upgrade from 1/2 HP 3 wheel to 1 HP 4 wheel. Either will do very well for you and like someone else mentioned in another thread (with the gear reduction will pull the shaper up the stairs).

For you fence Q. You just off set the outfeed fence to line up with the cutter edge of a straight cutter. The infeed is set back (deeper) by whatever you want to take off. Essentially a jointer laying sideways, if that helps.

For the record with most rail / stile cutters you can do the same thing for 5 piece doors and the sticks come out profiled and final width. It would work the same for T and G cutters.

Joe

[Rod Sheridan]

Morning Rod,
I was just getting ready to PM you. In the tread that I posted from a few years ago you mention adding a shim against the aux fence to produce the same width stock ?? Did I get that right? Can your clarify that? I am having a mental block and can't picture the technique.

Hi, I probably was talking about an outboard fence on the shaper.

The stock feeder pushes the work against the outboard fence, the distance from the cutter to the outboard fence controls the final width of the flooring.

The cutter takes away the entire edge, so the work is about 1/16" wider than desired final dimension.

Do not attempt to run material between the outboard fence and the cutter by hand, only the stock feeder is strong enough to do this.

Regards, Rod

[David Nelson1]

Thanks Joe. I went back and re-read what Ron had posted a few years ago and he added clarification as well. I got a pretty good understanding of the basics, but as usual I'm sure something weird will pop up or I'll make things a bit harder than normal. Thanks for the help

[David Nelson1]

Got it Rod. Just had to go re-read what you wrote. It differed greatly from what I was thinking LOL

[Peter Quinn]

Hi David. I'm unfortunately making way too much flooring for my liking at work presently. Possibly the most boring millwork operation I can personally think of. Other operations are slow due to economy, and flooring marches on as a profit center. It may prove more rewarding to make a custom floor for your own house, but the repetition is considerable, as is the waste produced.

In any event, we make lots of wide plank that won't fit through the molder on a couple of shapers. I think a 1/2HP feeder would easily push flooring less than 8" in width, maybe more if the table is well waxed. You aren't taking a very large or deep cut. A 1/4HP feeder is pushing it in terms of not enough power and rigidity to hold the boards flat and move them forward, and a baby feeder is pretty much out of the question IMO.

The amana set should be fine for a small run of a few thousand square feet. Looks like all the geometry is right. Mill the grooves first on a split fence and the tongues second on a long straight back fence, using a feeder for both operations. Consider having your lumber at least S3S'd commercially, and possibly planed and sanded to .775". That will take away most of the hard part of manufacturing a good floor in a small shop and is IMO well worth the cost involved.

For the relief cuts on the face that will face the floor, you pretty much need a mini molder or molder planer to to do this in one pass easily. Like a Williams and Hussey, or woodmaster, or jet 13" molder planer. We have had relief knives made for a planer at work and clamped guide boards to the table to work just like a molder for boards that were too wide, so that is an option too if you have a floor model planer. I feel you could also use a jointer with knives that are ground for the purpose, using a feeder or mechanical hold downs. It could also be done on a shaper with a molder head. This last one assumes your fence can take the pressure of the feeder against it. If not you could make a fence for the purpose from plywood that would do it. I suppose you could get twice the width of the largest molding head your shaper can handle. Mine can handle 3" head easily, maybe 4" for a cut as shallow as relief knives?

Another multi pass option is the TS with a dado blade and a feeder, or a molding head with knives meant for the purpose, like a magic molder. I have also done a board or two on a router table with a core box, but thats pretty slow on a whole room or two. The dado makes rather sharp edges but does work and cost very little if you already have the TS and dado, though you pay in terms of time given all the passes required.

Good luck with it.

[David Nelson1]

Thanks Peter, A lot of good info in your post. It will be used wisely.

[Brad Shipton]

Dave, before we start getting into the machine needs, I would like to know what you mean by a good deal on the red oak? What width is the stock and what widths are you aiming for? I will assume the rough stock is 4/4 thick.

I cannot tell how set on this project you are, but I have made around 1,000sq ft for my house, and I must say this was one of my worst decisions in the house renovating project. It is far too time consuming and after you get all the tools and equipment you might not find you really save that much money. The professional shops run this through the plants at an alarming rate, so the actual milling cost is not huge unless you are going for something custom. I suggest you take a close look at your material to see how much you expect to yield. I would seriously consider putting that stock aside and wait to work on a fun project.

I used my shaper to make the relief cuts. I had some blades made for a 4" tall cutter that mimick the relief cuts Mirage uses in their 5" wide plank flooring. I dont know what flooring width you are aiming for, so this might not work for you. I have built 4.5" wide, 6.75", 8" and 11.25" widths all with this method. The middle cut on the 11.25" stock was made with the dado on my saw. I suspect the under the nut capacity of your machine is 3", so you can probably do up to 6" wide with two passes.

Are you planning to end match the planks?

Good luck
Brad

[David Nelson1]

Dave, before we start getting into the machine needs, I would like to know what you mean by a good deal on the red oak? What width is the stock and what widths are you aiming for? I will assume the rough stock is 4/4 thick.

I cannot tell how set on this project you are, but I have made around 1,000sq ft for my house, and I must say this was one of my worst decisions in the house renovating project. It is far too time consuming and after you get all the tools and equipment you might not find you really save that much money. The professional shops run this through the plants at an alarming rate, so the actual milling cost is not huge unless you are going for something custom. I suggest you take a close look at your material to see how much you expect to yield. I would seriously consider putting that stock aside and wait to work on a fun project.

I used my shaper to make the relief cuts. I had some blades made for a 4" tall cutter that mimick the relief cuts Mirage uses in their 5" wide plank flooring. I dont know what flooring width you are aiming for, so this might not work for you. I have built 4.5" wide, 6.75", 8" and 11.25" widths all with this method. The middle cut on the 11.25" stock was made with the dado on my saw. I suspect the under the nut capacity of your machine is 3", so you can probably do up to 6" wide with two passes.

Are you planning to end match the planks?

Good luck
Brad

Hey Brad
Stock is 4/4 and boards are between 13-15 inches wide by 12 foot. As far as the milled stock, I was thinking 4 1/4 with a face of 4 inches. The deal .50 a bdft. The other consideration was to have a pattern of 2, 3, 4, 3, and then 2 again. I have moved away from that, but might still consider it after some careful measurements of wood and rooms.

Believe me when I say I do understand the scope of the job. More than likely will wish I had not undertaken this task if I run into a few to many bumps in the road, but for $10,000 as quoted (installed) I should wind up with up to 50% savings. Now even if I could find something the wife liked and a minimum $ 2.99 a square that's close to $6,000. Will I save any money, probably not much figuring all the other expenses. Time is a commodity that is short, but I'm in no hurry, a room @ a time. I get a pretty big kick out of doing something myself, maybe its the complusive nature... maybe its just the end product... Who knows! LOL

The whole relief cut thing is a portion I have yet to figure out. As I have said before some think it good idea and needed, some say its useless. To accomplish the relief cuts I have seen suggestions that range from a moulding head on a table saw, to doing a cope on the T/S with a canted sled, to using the jointer with a moulding knives installed. Of course 12' stock with be a pain in the neck no matter what method is used.... I have not picked the machine up because I'm on business trip, but I think 3 inches under the nut sounds about right. Just looked it up 2 15/16". No idea what that translates to yet LOL.

End matching .... no unless someone can convience me otherwise. Thanks for taking the time to help out. Really do appreciate it.

[Brad Shipton]

I totally understand where you are coming from. I got hooked on a mirage flooring product that retailed for $12/sqft when I was looking. If you (and your wife) are prepared to spend around 120hr (manuf, install & finish) on this project, plus any delays while you figure things out, then lets get at it.

Ok, so you have what sounds like some pretty nice stock. At that price, I hope it is not mill run or something other that is typically referred to as "rustic". My last batches I made random widths, and it did complicate the process a little, but I did manage to reduce my waste a lot. The width of my last stock varied widely, so that is why I opted for randoms. If your stock is relatively uniform in width, I would not bother.

Like I said, I did make some wide planks, but that really complicates the production in a hobbiest shop. I am sure you know the reasons why one should not use wide planks, but the humidity in my area is very uniform and I can get away with it. The downside of the wide boards is they do not always flatten perfectly under the wheel pressure, so some of my tongues and grooves did not work out as perfect as I would have liked. This led to quite a few extra hours behind the sander (brazillian cherry is way too hard:)). The other problem with wide planks is the fact that they do not flex at all during install. This means you need to get the boards as straight as humanly possible in your shop (All little errors accumulate during the install). This is true for pretty much any board over 4" wide I think. I had many many boards that were 10' long, so that was a challenge. I used an outboard fence on my last batches and they worked out much better than my first.

To decide on the width I would look closely at the stock. Get an idea how much you will loose straight lining the stock. From the stock width you describe I would be leaning towards something around 5" (two pieces per 13" width, and three per 15").

I opted to go with relief cuts mainly since that is what is recommended by the national flooring regs. Anyway you slice it, you will run each board past the shaper or a dado head two times, so it does not matter too much. The profile of relief cuts seems to vary quite a bit so I don't think there is much of a science behind that req't.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Shop/DSC01407.jpg

What Peter mentioned is very true. About 90% of the work is making the flooring blanks. The actual T&G and reliefs is not a big part of doing this yourself. I generated 5-45gal drums of sawdust going from rough to ready to install for a 300sqft batch I tracked.

The end matching is up to you.

Brad

[David Nelson1]

I can't agree more about measurements and room size versus plank width. I did find a place that looks as if they might be able to hook me up with something for the relief cuts. Ever deal with moldingknives.com? They seem have to advertised profiles for relief cuts one for T/G and one for trim. I have yet to call them but it seems they can supply just about anything I might need.
I was thinking about using the jointer as the way and means of cutting the reliefs any thoughts?

[David Nelson1]

After all kinds of delays, Heath being the biggest one, I finally got started after we have been talking about this project for 10 years in one fashion or another. I've decided I'm going with a 3.5 centerboard with a 3 and 2.5 on both sides of that. The pattern will repeat across the room. Hiding the short pieces as they land from one wall to the other will be a challenge. Here is the first of many bags of sawdust. :D



206009206010

[Peter Quinn]

Congrats David on your insane yet admirable devotion to this flooring project! Bravo. How did you decide to do relief cuts? I just read Brads questions about end matching. Makes me smile. We used to do end matching all by hand on floors over 5", sliding shaper jig on narrower boards. Then the boss got an end matcher that would do 12" to match the widest molder. No more routers! Then we got lots of requests for wide plank over 12', so we made them on shapers and end matched by hand, but on a limited basis. Then he got an 18" molder, and we have to end match everything over 12" by hand with routers. Ouch. Not much of a good time there. Thank god yours is narrow! End matching really makes sense on wide plank to keep things lined up, not so necessary on narrower strips.

How are you straight lining your blanks? Have fun with it. I'm sure you will make a beautiful floor to enjoy for a lifetime.

[David Nelson1]

Hey Pete,
Lotta questions LOL Hope I have answers.:D Reliefs will be done on the 612 woodmaster with the 700c tool holders . Straight line cuts will be done on the woodmaster as well with the gang rip blades. End matching I'm still up in arms over it. A 6 -10 footer is going to be rough supporting in the sled on the shaper. I have given thought to using routers or just forgetting about it don't know yet. Only thing I still have to buy is the shaper profiles, I'm going for the Amana brand no V groove @ the top.

[Peter Quinn]

Sounds great David! Woodmaster will sure solve lots of issues in the small shop. I don't have one at home but wish I did. End matching is painfully slow by hand regardless of method, especially on narrower widths. Can't wait to see pics!

[David Nelson1]

Thanks for the support!!!!

[David Nelson1]

Sounds great David! Woodmaster will sure solve lots of issues in the small shop. I don't have one at home but wish I did. End matching is painfully slow by hand regardless of method, especially on narrower widths. Can't wait to see pics!

I bought the Amana SC 451 cutter set so..... if I where to try end matching with a router should I be looking to find a profile that matches the Amana cutters exactly or would a normal T/G router bits work?

[Peter Quinn]

You could search for a cope type set up, but we normally just use a slot cutter and set the tongue height the same. We alsomhave an adjustable slot cutter with shims in the stack to tweak the fit. Amana makes those too! It let's you do ninety degree intersections like heirringbone or spline but joints in the field. We make splines from solid stock, MDF, or BB depending on what client prefers. No real need to get a true coped fit as it's not a glue joint as long as it makes a tight intersection from above where visible.

[David Nelson1]

I think I understand what your saying, but can you point me to a few profiles your talking about when you have a few mins. No hurry it will be at least several more weeks before I need to worry about end matching.

[David Nelson1]

Looked em up all ready. If I feel the need to end match I'll use what I have already. With no wider material that 3 1/2 inches I don't think I'll need to do it.

[Tony Joyce]

With no wider material that 3 1/2 inches I don't think I'll need to do it.

I tend to agree, end matching is not needed on narrower widths. I've run lots of custom flooring and didn't end match any of it, no negative feedback in 25 years of not end matching. You could use a biscuit joiner on the ends if you felt it was necessary, quick and easy.

[Peter Quinn]

We use something like this for end matching wide boards.

http://www.amanatool.com/bits-fv/53620.html

Narrow stuff is done only on request, or for special patterns like herringbone, chevron patterns, parquet, etc, where the boards intersect at 90 degrees. We use an automated end matching machine now which sure makes things easier. Type end matcher into a you tube search and you will se a few examples in action. I agree with Tony that for narrow widths (under 5-6") rarely do the ends get matched, and at 3" its really not necessary for a standard strip floor operation. The end matcher where I work came with carbide insert heads that make a coped fit, but I don't think the operator even bothers to use them, they just run a 1/4" cutter with 8 teeth, like a small saw blade type slotter. It serves the purpose and goes a bit quicker and costs less to replace. A set of end matching heads gets pretty expensive. Many of the flooring installers that buy from us just use biscuits as a cost consideration to skip the end matching charge, others seem to prefer or need the end matching to speed things up in the field.

If I were making it my self I would skip the end matching, its painful by hand!

[David Nelson1]

So far I have about 30 hours invested in the milling process. Around 300 square foot 3 sided and around 290 square rough culled. If the rain stops sometime this weekend. I'll rough cull and three side around another 200-300 this weekend. Pics are rough cut.207208207209207210

[David Nelson1]

Flooring Project Continues: Adaptation of a Unifeeder to a Craftsman Table saw.

700 +/- Square ft. 3 sided. I was going to use the woodmaster the rip the 4th side, but I'm having difficulty getting it apart to swap over to the gang rip. Frozen bearing to the planer shaft wont let you slide the bearing to gain the clearance to remove the planer spindle. Looks as if I'll have to cut the bearing flanges ( stamped steel ) to get the clearance. Bearing and flanges are available from Applied Industrial. Fortunately they have a shop local.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDFEz6Hc_Mc

[David Nelson1]

I'm still working the piles of lumber into flooring. I figured the est @ 4200 linear feet and I just shelved 2100 linear feet. I still have the tongue to mill and the relief cut for those boards so they really are not truly done.

I was really surprised @ the waste I'm getting of course I really shouldn't be I didn't by prime wood. LOL

The shaper is kinda kicking my butt the split fence seems to out of square on the in-feed side. I'm going to have it parallel ground to square it up and that should be good. Might have to rerun the groove on the boards I did a few months ago. The back fence idea worked great.

That takes care of the 3 and 3 1/2 inch boards now for the 2 1/2 " pieces. I'm going to do the bedrooms and hall first then moved to the kitchen dining and living room area. I still have to figure out if I REALLY want to try and build the kitchen cabinets :eek: Might opt out on that I need to get this done before the end of the year! Enjoy the few snap shots. I added a before pic of the wood rack. Its getting bare quick.

[David Nelson1]

I have run out of wood. I was able to salvage about 1/2 - 3/4 of the wood I scavagned from local private owners. I'm getting close to getting the bedrooms and the hall done. Cutting the tounge for the 3" boards today.

After that I'll have the reliefs to run on the woodmaster and then move the wood into the house for a month or so. Between trips in August and Sept I should be able to demo the two smaller rooms and prep the floor. Looking to lay those room toward the end of Sept.

I'm sure glad I wasn't in a hurry :-)

[Alan Bienlein]

Just for future reference when we run our door material at work on the shaper in 10' plus lengths the in feed side of the fence is spring loaded to keep the boards tight against the outside fence. Once the out feed fence is sent to the cutter you can run any width piece you want just by setting the outboard fence to the finished dimension you want to the out feed fence and your good to go.

With this type of setup your boards can vary in width but once you run them thru they will be consistent in width.

[David Nelson1]

I did look @ trying something like that but for the dimensions I'm running and the frequency I'll be doing this type of work I decided it was too much of a hassle. Finding the apex of the cutter and the leveling both fences with a test piece for that profile then take the width of the test piece, rip some stock to make up the difference of the new width, slide it test piece and clamp the back fence down has been working very well for me. I just have to run everything using that width @ once due to set up errors.

More than one way to skin a cat and thanks for the heads up. I have doors in the distance future so I may incorporate your idea then.

V/R dave

[David Nelson1]

Hey all,

I'm down to the relief cuts. How deep should they be? I'm using a 5 hp woodmaster.

[Peter Quinn]

Most I've seen are just under 1/8", maybe 3/32"?

[David Nelson1]

Thanks Peter! Kinda what I was thinking as well

[David Nelson1]

Finally got a few boards nailed today. What you see took me and my son 7 hours to figure out and lay. Hope we are past the learning curve. Thanks for looking!

[Carl Beckett]

Thanks for the update David!!

I remember when you started this thread, and am looking forward to pics of the finished project. Its quite a project, but can imagine how satisfying it will be every day you use it.

[David Nelson1]

Thanks for the words of encouragement Carl. Yeah it's been a while, I almost gave up after I had the back surgery. Only thing that kept me @ it is the satifaction of doing it myself, no matter how long it takes.

The floor went done very well. Very few gaps, and the ones that I do have came from snipe coming off the shaper that I didn't notice. Very minor. My son came up and helped with the hard bending and kneeling. We had a very large learning curve from lay out to putting nails in the guns. LOL I hope that we have made it past all of that.

I looked @ the rental tools available in a few places including the big box stores. I was under impressed so I bought the Freeman floor nailer and the Bostitch 15 gauge finish nailer. Tool review pending.

Hurrican Sandy is blow our way so as usual other things take priority!

[Peter Quinn]

Looks great David. Glad to see its coming together for you. Hope Sandy misses you, Hope she misses me too! Doesn't look that way, but I can hope!

[David Nelson1]

Thanks Peter, if it wasn't for you and few other folks pointing me in the right direction I wouldn't have gotten that far!

I don't think it going to miss anyone on the east coast. Fired the generator up I will have all the essentials less hot hatyer. I tricked myself and got a smart water heater of course it has mag contacts sit there and cycles on and off LOL.

[Tony Rodoracio]

David,

Just read this post for the first time and I gotta say I'm impressed with your fortitude on this project! That looks like a heck of a lot of work. Hope your in that house awhile and can enjoy all that labor of love. Also hope you guys on the east coast come thru this storm without major problems. Good luck and thanks for taking the time to chronicle your project.

[David Nelson1]

David,

Just read this post for the first time and I gotta say I'm impressed with your fortitude on this project! That looks like a heck of a lot of work. Hope your in that house awhile and can enjoy all that labor of love. Also hope you guys on the east coast come thru this storm without major problems. Good luck and thanks for taking the time to chronicle your project.

Thanks for looking Tony. Fortitude LOL, I think its stubbornness, folks told me it was a lot of work of course I knew that but,.................. not really LOl It will be great when it's done. The floor is coming out pretty level so ........... I'm thinking of hand scraping instead of sanding. I don't think it will take that long and of course I have the cabinet scraper and hand scrapers already. No need to rent a sander right! HAHHA well see I'm not so sure!

[Paul McGaha]

Your flooring project is really looking good David.

Great job.

PHM

[David Nelson1]

Thanks Paul!!!!!!!

[David Nelson1]

For those interested couple of shot after the first top coat.

[Peter Quinn]

Looking great! That floor has great character, must feel good to be getting there.

[David Nelson1]

LOL sure does, but this is only the first room. LOL

[David Nelson1]

Its been a while since I posted to this thread. I've been quite busy @ work and have not dedicated too much time to home projects. I'm on my 3rd bedroom which I should complete today and the hall leading to the bedrooms is done as well.

I have seen a few folks interested in producing a hard wood floor. My only advise from lessons learned is that you wont save a thing, actually it will cost more, but at the same time you wont find what you can produce............

As for the process end matching 8 - 10 foot pieces was a problem for me in my shop, not enough room to work, not to mention the extra setups and steps. I found the joint that was produced from a miter saw to be very inaccurate as well as sloppy and the kerf always was some what splinter. I tried many a thing to resolve the problem, different saw blades, going for a corded machine to an old Stanley 358, to just a plain old back saw.

The back saw coupled with an over sized shoot board fixed the very small angle problems as well cleaning the kerf up. So I would have to conclude that even if you don't match the ends your going to have to do something to square them up. What a difference that made in appearance!

[Peter Quinn]

This thread is a bit like reading the Oddesy of Ulysses. Man goes on long journey, faces great obsticles, perseveres against all odds. At work a great big machine with a 30" blade and pneumatic hold downs fires through boards at 20 miles per hour with the tap of a foot and cuts them dead square....problem solved. But when you go to install long boards adjustments are still often neccessary. Glad to see the project still moving forward. Good show!

[Mark Bolton]

Its a great thread to bookmark because the topic of making flooring comes up often. With the help an input from Peter, Jeff, and others here, we have done some small runs of flooring for customers but it was all odd stuff you couldnt get off the shelf. Beyond that, if you can buy it off the shelf, its simply not worth trying unless you just really want the enjoyment and romance of making the floor yourself. If cost savings compared to any off the shelf materials are a remote concern you'd have to get the wood, your tooling, all the electricity, for free, AND have some nameless individual hand you a wad of cash to ever make the endeavor profitable. :p

Nice thread and good that given the work youve got into it your making it as perfect as you can. Would be a must.

[Bob Falk]

Have you measured the MC of the stock? Life will be easier if your rough stock is near 8% MC before you mill. bob

[David Nelson1]

Yeah Bob it was taken to the kiln. Not just for the moisture but all this wood came second hand and was a bit buggy.