Your favorite bowl gouge and why?

[Jamie Straw]

I have but one bowl gouge, and I'd like to experiment with grinds, meaning a back-up should soon be purchased, perhaps a major go-to tool (more than a back-up). Seeking wisdom -- what's your favorite bowl gouge and why? For small to medium-sized bowls, mostly maple and alder, a little cherry. TIA!

[Nathan Hawkes]

Well, you're going to get a lot of different answers. I have six bowl gouges, and each one does a specifically different job. If I had to live with just one, it would be either a 1/2" or 5/8" with a 55 degree front bevel, and swept wings, the "irish" or "Ellsworth" style grind on the front.
As it is now, I have a 1/2" Hamlet 2060, a 5/8" Packard 2060 at the end of its usable life with only about an inch and a half left on the flute, ground in an extra-long "irish grind" for shear scraping cuts only, a 5/8" Doug Thompson extra long "Bill Grumbine" gouge, with a 40 degree bevel, which is my wood hogging go-to gouge for exterior cuts, a Crown Pro-PM 5/8" gouge (which I made into the ellsworth grind myself instead of paying extra for someone to grind it for me), a 1/4" Benjamin's Best that was one of my first tools, and a P&N 5/8" "supa-gouge" ground in a traditional grind for finish cuts only on bowl interiors. All have their flutes honed and polished, which if you're not doing already, you should be. Good luck to you!

[Brian Ashton]

My only gouge is a 1/2 inch (out side diameter) which has a finger nail grind where the sides go way back, about 7/8 of an inch. I used to do a lot of production turning and found I could with such a grind do about 90% of the work with the bowl gouge. For me anything smaller or larger would limit where the tool could go and what it could do.

[Michelle Rich]

my favorite is the sharp one when I need it! I have no special gouges..they all work..some fingernail, some flatter faced..they all do their job.

[Fred Perreault]

I have several gouges, from entry level quality to the more expensive, engineered alloys. I never really developed a favorite as such, but my favored choice is to reach for the one that best fits what I am attempting to do at the time. If I was to have only one gouge to use at all, I would choose a quality 3/8ths" bowl gouge that holds a good edge, and has a handle that I can wrap my hands and mind around comfortably.
Have you ever looked down at an ugly putter...?

[Thom Sturgill]

I have three 5/8" gouges, two have a modified fingernail grind, and just bought a 1/2" Thompson V gouge (Jimmy Clewes signature design - handled last night - stealth gloat :D) to add to the other 1/2" conventional grind gouge and I am contemplating a 3/8" version to round out the set :)

One of the 5/8" gouges is the 'Ellsworth' signature gouge and came with a longer handle than the others. It's been sharpened enough times that I would have to call the grind an 'Irish' grind and not claim it as an Ellsworth grind.

Another is a Thompson 'U' gouge which I bought thinking it would get into the bottom better. (Haven't used it enough to answer that, though I have had a few situations where it would provide a better 'attack' than the other gouges.)

The third 5/8" is Crown gouge with an modified Irish grind. While the Thompson U is handy in some places I use the other two almost interchangeably for most bowl work, using whichever is sharper. I sharpen all of them before starting a project and switch as they get dull so that I do not go back to the grinder as often. I also hone. I modify the Irish grind by grinding back some of the heel to reduce the amount of scoring and pressure burnishing on the inside cuts, and use both a vari-grind jig and raptor setup tools to get reproducible grinds.

One advantage of being a club member - we meet monthly at the President's shop and often others bring in a tool so we get to see and handle different designs and grinds.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have actually two for those sized bowls. I use a 1/2" fingernail grind to pretty much rough out and for the final cuts I use a conventional grind gouge.

[Matt Hutchinson]

I have a number of bowl gouges with different grinds. The one I go to for the majority of small and medium work is a 3/8" Henry Taylor Kryo with an extremely swept back fingernail grind. It has a tip shape that can be very aggressive if I need it to, but I also get very fine wispy (sp?) shavings when making finishing cuts. It's perfect for the outside of bowls, but inside finishing cuts tend to be either awkward or too aggressive depending on your technique. I use it for everything, but I really should have a different bowl gouge for finishing the inside of bowls.

This gouge is getting shorter, and I am going to replace it with a "v" flute bowl gouge from Doug Thompson, but I'll grab a 'u' flute along with it.

Hutch

[Lance kanaby]

I have two Ellsworth Bowl Gouges, the original by Crown and the on by Henry Taylor. There is no comparison between the two, the original Crown is by far the best. You can feel the quality when in use and also when sharpening. I use this gouge for about 85% of all of my turnings.

[Jamie Straw]

Plenty of options to consider here, as I knew there would be. Thanks for all of the descriptions, I have questions to help me understand the choices and narrow things down, and to get a feel for what might be needed down the road as the bowl shapes get more challenging.

[Jamie Straw]

[snip]...and just bought a 1/2" Thompson V gouge (Jimmy Clewes signature design - handled last night - stealth gloat :D) [snip]...Another is a Thompson 'U' gouge which I bought thinking it would get into the bottom better.

[snip]... I modify the Irish grind by grinding back some of the heel to reduce the amount of scoring and pressure burnishing on the inside cuts....



Thanks, Thom. Congrats on the new gouge! Some questions for you: Are the 'U' and 'V' gouges sharpened any differently? or is totally user-preference? The inexpensive bowl gouge I have right now seems to have more of a 'V' than a 'U'.

Also, by "grinding back some of the heel" do you mean softening where the bevel meets the shaft of the tool? or something else (that should be obvious to me but isn't.:o)

[Jamie Straw]

One grind I'm curious about is the asymmetrical grind such as that used by Raffan. (I have both his and Grumbine's bowl DVD's). During my little bowl-turning session last weekend, my friend let me use both of the bowl-gouges he uses the most, one with a longer bevel and swept back, and one with a shorter steeper grind. Raffan's asymmetrical grind combines those into one tool. Any feedback from users of that approach? The "blunter" grind seems it might be easier for a newbie to handle in sticky situations.

Sundays are now officially Turning Day -- no horses, no housework. Hope to have something to report tonight.:)

[Thom Sturgill]

Thanks, Thom. Congrats on the new gouge! Some questions for you: Are the 'U' and 'V' gouges sharpened any differently? or is totally user-preference? The inexpensive bowl gouge I have right now seems to have more of a 'V' than a 'U'.

Also, by "grinding back some of the heel" do you mean softening where the bevel meets the shaft of the tool? or something else (that should be obvious to me but isn't.:o)

The U gouge has a conventional grind, but I ground the bevel back until the profile looks rounded leaving only about 1/8" of the bevel intact. On the irish ground gouges I typically only grind about 1/8" off where the bevel meets the main shaft so that there is not a sharp transition there. This is not as drastic as what Mike Mahoney shows in his videos. Woodturner's catalog sells his signature tools and has several profile pictures.
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/thumbnails/mahoney-cleaner_t.jpghttp://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/thumbnails/mahoney-finalizer_t.jpghttp://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/thumbnails/mahoney-beater_t.jpg

Mine look kinda like the last picture, but I grind the sides a little too.

[Nathan Hawkes]

The U gouge has a conventional grind, but I ground the bevel back until the profile looks rounded leaving only about 1/8" of the bevel intact. On the irish ground gouges I typically only grind about 1/8" off where the bevel meets the main shaft so that there is not a sharp transition there. This is not as drastic as what Mike Mahoney shows in his videos. Woodturner's catalog sells his signature tools and has several profile pictures.
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/thumbnails/mahoney-cleaner_t.jpghttp://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/thumbnails/mahoney-finalizer_t.jpghttp://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/thumbnails/mahoney-beater_t.jpg

Mine look kinda like the last picture, but I grind the sides a little too.


Good post! I second all of this as well. Double bevels work wonders for improving your quality of cut, and for preventing wood "bruising" that can occur with softer hardwoods, or extremely green wood. Sometimes you never know its there until you think you're done sanding--no tearout--only to find a dark line in the bowl when you oil it. I turned a pignut hickory bowl a year or two ago that was turned thin, then dried, which didn't allow enough wood to remove all of the bruising. Bummer! That bowl spurred my bevels.

[Jamie Straw]

Hmmmm, double bevels -- this is new to me. Thanks!

[Reed Gray]

Well, it is down to several gouges, and I am still experimenting.

I am using the swept back grind a lot less. I have found it to be some what better for navigating through the transition area in the bottom of the bowl. I think that is mostly due to the wings being lower on the sides than the traditional grind gouge (45 degree bevel, wings swept to 45 degree angle). Other than that, the swept back grind does give more cutting area for roughing, and if you want to finish shear cut with one, most of the times the wing will still be sharp, and the nose not so sharp because it is what gets used the most.

I have recently found that I like a smaller gouge for finish cuts on the inside of the bowl. Primary reason is the smaller gouge has a shorter/smaller bevel, which helps it go through the transition area of the bowl better than a larger gouge. On the outside of the bowl, I prefer the bigger gouges (5/8) as you are working close to the bevel, no matter what size gouge you are using, and big heavy tools feel better in my hands. I do prefer a more blunt angle on my gouges for the inside as they are better for going across the bottom of the bowl. The 45 degree angle is a great tool for smaller and shallower bowls, but 55 degrees or more is better on larger and deeper bowls.

I do grind off the heels of my gouge bevels. I don't grind a secondary bevel, just put it on the 80 grit wheel and round it over, usually grind about half of it off. If you have a long bevel, with a sharp heel, on the inside of the bowl, it is a problem. Due to the concave shape, you will be riding the back side of the bevel when cutting. This does two things. One, the sharp heel will actually push the gouge into the cut, and you will get concentric rings on the inside of the bowl. Mike Mahoney and Stewart Batty both talk about this. It does make sense the way they explain it. The other thing it does is leave bruise (you could also call them deep burnish marks) marks in the wood. Some times even the 80 grit gouge won't take these marks out. By grinding off the heel, you can keep the bevel closer to the cutting edge, which makes it easier to control.

My favorite tool for bowl roughing is a heavy scraper. My favorite tool for clean up cuts and touch up is a heavy scraper with a burnished burr at a 45 degree angle/shear cut.

robo hippy

[Al Wasser]

If you want something that is inexpensive give the PSI(Penn State) bowls gouges a try. I have used them but don't own one. You can grind shapes to see what you like and not be out big bucks.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Jamie - just answered almost the same thing over on Curt's thread.

My favorite gouge is a Doug Thompson 5/8" V bowl gouge that is mounted in a Monster Custom Handle that I filled with BBs for ballast. Very well balanced tool that I can use for roughing out anything or making super fine finishing cuts!

[Richard Madison]

Single favorite would be the Thompson 1/2" V bowl gouge, because of its versatility. There are several others that are used as frequently, but if I could have only one it would be the aforementioned.

[Bill Blasic]

My go to gouge is the Thompson 5/8 V, I use this tool for 95% of my non-hollow form turning.
Bill

[Jamie Straw]

Well, it is down to several gouges, and I am still experimenting.



I have a feeling experimenting is a semi-permanent state with this Vortex stuff. There're sooooooo many ways to do things! Thanks, Reed, for the detailed explanation and descriptions. Have you experimented with a Raffan-style asymmetrical bowl gouge grind? I discovered last night, while organizing the shop, that I actually have a second bowl gouge, so I'm going to try it out.

[Reed Gray]

I can't say that I know what the Raffen asymmetrical grind is, but would imagine that one side, the inside flute when turning the inside of the bowl, would be high, and the centerside flute would be lower. Got a pic? One tool that needs more experimentation for me is the Continental gouge. For those of you who know Michael Mouse, it is his finish cut tool. The flute shape is like this (, as in very flat, but curved, and the nose has the same profile, so, not square across like a spindle roughing gouge. I have a carbon steel one that was given to me, and I do use it on square bowls (turned from a board, not round like from a log). I was having problems with tear out on the edges of the boards, and when using it, there was almost no tear out. I figure it has to do with the high shear angle you use when you are cutting with it, probably 60 to 70 degrees. With most cuts, the higher the shear angle, the cleaner the cut. I haven't tried it on a regular bowl yet, but another thing to experiment with.

robo hippy

[Neil Strong]

If I had to go back to just one bowl gouge it would probably be the Crown Ellsworth Signature 13mm-1/2" (flute width) Gouge. I've kept the grind and like it/got used to it. My 5/8"V Thompson runs a close second.

If I was to offload just one bowl gouge it would probably be my Henry Taylor 5/8" (flute width) Superflute. Should have got the Kryo version, in my experience their M2 doesn't hold up very well or maybe I'm just getting spoiled by the exotic HSSs, although some M2 tools are better than others (eg P&N).

I use the same grind angles on all of my V flute profile bowl gouges, but the edge profile varies with the slight variation in flute profile.

.....

[Jamie Straw]

Reed, I haven't found a pic yet of the asymmetrical grind. It appears in the DVD that the left side is ~35* bevel and swept back, but the right side is more like 50* and doesn't sweep. Craft sells 2 of his gouges that seem to fit the description, the Superflute Kryo and the Bowl Roughing Gouge in the same line of gouges.

I feel like I need a bit different grind for the roughing out than what I have on my 1/2" gouge, which is swept-back and ~35 degrees. The other gouge is smaller (3/8") but has more like a 45* or 50* bevel. I'm really in the early stages of practicing these cuts, getting a feel for what's what. They both seem kinda "pointy" -- perhaps because they lean toward a 'V' shape as opposed to a 'U'?? Gotta say, it seems harder than spindles, but perhaps it just depends on what you start with.....