Is this how it starts - becoming Neanderthal?

[Dan Karachio]

Over the past four years I have built up my shop and made a number of things. I am now getting more into making furniture vs cabinetry. Some day, chairs! As I learn more and watch various shows on TV like the Woodwright's shop, I'm starting to understand a different way of doing things that is quiet, less dusty and far more connected to the idea of being a craftsman than just buying some new 2 hp thing or accessory that can chew wood in a certain way. So, I'm starting to think things like this:

"What the heck did I need all that Festool stuff for? Sell it used (good resale) and I could put the $1500 toward hand tools."

"Routers are very noisy and I hate changing the damn bits. Table saw dado blades are also a pain to change and shim out for a perfect fit. Imagine having a plough plane, fillister plane, hollow planes, round planes and more..."

"Okay, I have my 12" planer and 6" jointer now, they churn out a boat load of chips and can only handle certain sized boards. Imagine, for the price of the cheapo lunch box planer alone I could have a LN or LV jointer (already have a jack and smoother)."

And so on. I mean it's just me and it's just a hobby. I am not running a production shop. I bought into the whole power tool thing and while I certainly understand what they are for and what they do, I am discovering this is not what I want. I don't want to have to wear hearing protection and carry the darn dust collector remote with me all over the shop. I don't want my relaxing evening in the shop to make everyone else cringe with very high decibels. What I do want is this. I want to learn about wood and woodworking, make things I am proud of and be more "connected to the wood."

So, I am going to start and phase out of power and phase in to hand tools.

P.S. One thing though. No way in h$ll anyone is ever taking my bandsaw away! :-)

[Matt Benton]

I've been in the same boat your in for the last couple of years. I've decided I just am not willing to hand plane 4/4 to 3/4" or less, especially for the larger projects I'd like to build. My shop time is virtually nil now, and with 2 kids under 5, its not going to get much better any time soon. I'll probably keep the planer and get a jointer once the planer sled gets old (which probably won't take long). Bandsaw will always stay, just too useful not to keep.

I'm on the fence with the tablesaw. I'll probably start ripping and crosscutting with panel saws, and switch to the TS if it becomes too much.

I do agree with the router, though. I hate them....

[Dan Karachio]

Yea, Matt, it is the router that is getting me down the most. When I think of all the money I spent on the routers, a table, bits and add $200 for a dado blade for the table saw, I think it adds up to close to $1500. So what do I use all this stuff for? 95% of the time, for dados, grooves, rabbets, round overs... all things I could do with various hand tools.

[Rick Erickson]

Right there with ya Dan. My router freaks me out. It produces way too much dust and frankly takes up a ton of space. It will be the first to go. The jointer will be a close second. My planer and bandsaw would be the two I would keep around. Non-neander confession: I do love my Festool sanders. You can't beat the finish of a nicely hand planed board but sometimes my dust free Festool ROS calls my name and I can't resist.

[Dan Karachio]

No comment on that power stuff here! :-)

So, could someone recommend a set of hand tools to replace the functionality of a router and dado blades for dados, grooves, rabbets and simple molding? I am thinking a plough plane, fillister plane and a couple round/hollow planes.

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I have no scruples at all when it comes to woodworking. I do whatever is best for me at the time. Sometimes best means quickest. Sometimes it means safest. Sometimes it means the most fun. I'll use whatever power tool or hand tool gets me there. Neander isn't a religion to me. I think that's silly. Back in the day, they used the best tools they had available to them. To truly carry on the tradition, we should do the same, based on our goals.

Yeah, this is how it starts. Sometimes, I don't want to run something through the jointer. I want to work it by hand. Sometimes, I actually do a better job by hand than by power tools. Sometimes, I just want a bit of a workout.

Just do what feels good and right and enjoy the process.

[Rick Markham]

Personally, I have no scruples at all when it comes to woodworking. I do whatever is best for me at the time. Sometimes best means quickest. Sometimes it means safest. Sometimes it means the most fun. I'll use whatever power tool or hand tool gets me there. Neander isn't a religion to me. I think that's silly. Back in the day, they used the best tools they had available to them. To truly carry on the tradition, we should do the same, based on our goals.

Yeah, this is how it starts. Sometimes, I don't want to run something through the jointer. I want to work it by hand. Sometimes, I actually do a better job by hand than by power tools. Sometimes, I just want a bit of a workout.

Just do what feels good and right and enjoy the process.

+1 definitely. I love all my handtools, and am investing in more! Nothing like it when I feel like it. However, my Laguna bandsaw isn't going anywhere, and my tablesaw and planer aren't either! I want to enjoy my time in the shop, however I accomplish that, is the most important thing to me. I love planing, but the thought of doing ALL of it by hand, means I won't do as much of it, or enjoy it AS much (it becomes work) I wont get rid of the tablesaw, or my Festool track saw either. They accomplish what I consider mundane tasks far more accurately than I care to do by hand. My router is a love/hate relationship, I desperately want a LN router plane, it is just far more convenient than setting up the tablesaw or the router for it's operations. There are soooooo many tasks that hand tools perform soooo much better than some machine. Plus I enjoy exercising both my body and my craftsmanship ;)

[Brian Ashton]

Over the past four years I have built up my shop and made a number of things. I am now getting more into making furniture vs cabinetry. Some day, chairs! As I learn more and watch various shows on TV like the Woodwright's shop, I'm starting to understand a different way of doing things that is quiet, less dusty and far more connected to the idea of being a craftsman than just buying some new 2 hp thing or accessory that can chew wood in a certain way. So, I'm starting to think things like this:

"What the heck did I need all that Festool stuff for? Sell it used (good resale) and I could put the $1500 toward hand tools."

"Routers are very noisy and I hate changing the damn bits. Table saw dado blades are also a pain to change and shim out for a perfect fit. Imagine having a plough plane, fillister plane, hollow planes, round planes and more..."

"Okay, I have my 12" planer and 6" jointer now, they churn out a boat load of chips and can only handle certain sized boards. Imagine, for the price of the cheapo lunch box planer alone I could have a LN or LV jointer (already have a jack and smoother)."

And so on. I mean it's just me and it's just a hobby. I am not running a production shop. I bought into the whole power tool thing and while I certainly understand what they are for and what they do, I am discovering this is not what I want. I don't want to have to wear hearing protection and carry the darn dust collector remote with me all over the shop. I don't want my relaxing evening in the shop to make everyone else cringe with very high decibels. What I do want is this. I want to learn about wood and woodworking, make things I am proud of and be more "connected to the wood."

So, I am going to start and phase out of power and phase in to hand tools.

P.S. One thing though. No way in h$ll anyone is ever taking my bandsaw away! :-)

It was easy decision for me. When I decided I'd move to the southern hemisphere there was no way I could take my equipment. I had a shop to envy in canada... but it all had to go (except the lathe that was on a VFD). And now because down under machines are, how shall I say this, a complete rip off... I've pretty much given up on power tools so there is only one alternative - neander. Thankfully there is mail order so I don't get stung too bad on the price of hand tools. But I must say, when I do have the time to get into the garage and chip away I much prefer the absence of noise from power tools.

[Don Dorn]

Personally, I have no scruples at all when it comes to woodworking. I do whatever is best for me at the time. Sometimes best means quickest. Sometimes it means safest. Sometimes it means the most fun. I'll use whatever power tool or hand tool gets me there. Neander isn't a religion to me. I think that's silly. Back in the day, they used the best tools they had available to them. To truly carry on the tradition, we should do the same, based on our goals.

Yeah, this is how it starts. Sometimes, I don't want to run something through the jointer. I want to work it by hand. Sometimes, I actually do a better job by hand than by power tools. Sometimes, I just want a bit of a workout.

Just do what feels good and right and enjoy the process.

Very well stated and encompasses the way I feel - you just explained it better than I have. I enjoy using hand tools more, but I don't worship at that alter, I keep the options open.

An old man in the hills I once knew (assumed he was a complete traditionalist) built a log cabin and his boy said the he wanted to do it with trees they fell on the property to which the old man had no objection. Then the boy said, "I want to chop and trim them by hand like the pioneers" - to which the old man replied "John, I'd like to see this done before I die and don't you think the pioneers would have used a Homelight if they'd have had them?"

[Zach England]

Sometimes planing a lot makes my shoulders sore...

[Larry Marshall]

And so it begins, Dan :-)

Everyone has their view of the hand tool vs power tool thing. I come from the days when "neanderthal" was thrown at us by the power tool guys in a perjorative way and I still view the term that way. It's nice that using hand tools is seen as something other than a mental illness.

For myself, I use hand tools to enjoy the process of woodworking. Shucking the ear protection, respirator, etc. is just plain nice. Feeling the wood change is nice. Watching the grain as I work is nice. And let's face it, the tools are cool.

That said, I still use my lunchbox planer. I'll face a board but I'll use the planer to take it to thickness. It's a small disruption in the process. Also, if I need to rip a bunch of rails and styles I'll use my table saw, but that saw remains only because I don't own a good bandsaw. My routers, sanders, etc. have been shoved into a pile in one corner of my shop. They serve me well as they seem to collect dust quite well. And so I work, quietly enough that I can listen to music as I work wood.

But see http://www.woodnbits.com/blog/2010/05/process-vs-results-and-how-they-relate-to-sitting-down/ for a lapse in my typical behavior with a dose of explanation.

[Steve Branam]

Yep, you're on the slope now! What drew me to hand tools was admiring the self-sufficiency of someone being able to do fine work with simple tools.

After a while as you start to get good with one tool, you start thinking, "Well, if I can do this, then I could learn to do that, too." One by one, all the operations in a project start falling to hand techniques, to the point that the big powered beasts are just getting in the way in the shop.

Hand sawing really isn't a big deal after you get some practice with it. Once you learn to treat the rip saw and jointer as a team, you can rip pieces and joint clean edges in no time. I find it intensely satisfying.

Ok, it does take a few minutes, but really, not that many. With power tools, most of the time is in the setup, then the cutting is fast. With hand tools, the setup is fast, then most of the time is in the cutting. The total amount of time is pretty similar either way.

And it's not all that physically laborious. The real key is learning how to care for the tools. That's one reason for buying old junkers and learning how to clean them up and sharpen them. If you can make the ugliest rusty piece of flea market junk work, then you can keep a fine LN tuned as well as the day you took it out of the box.

For lots of repetitive bulk operations, tools like a power planer are still nice. It's fun to hand-thickness the individual pieces for a project, but the romance starts to take a back seat when you have a stack of 100 board feet to get through. That's just a lot of dull labor. But certainly for a hobbyist, most work is single one-off projects at small scale, not a lot of repetition. So the time required for multiple machine setups starts to outweigh the savings in physical labor.

[Jim Koepke]

I mostly have hand tools because until recently there wasn't enough room in my shop to surrender to a power tool.

Like many others, there are no plans to give up my band saw. If the budget ever allows, then a much better one will be acquired.

My thought on the meaning of Neanderthal woodworking is being able to do something with what is on hand. If people wanted to be sticklers, then we would all fall out of Neanderism if we bought our wood instead of chopping down a tree with an ax.

I doubt if I will buy more than one or two power tools. Though, sometimes a scroll saw or belt sander does solve a problem.

I think our time is better spent pursuing our hobby rather than trying to set a standard for what is and what isn't approved in the pursuit.

I do not like noise, so it is my choice to use tools that do not make noise.

Though when the necessity arrises, out come the circular saw, chain saw or hopefully soon the hydraulic log splitter.

jim

[David Keller NC]

No comment on that power stuff here! :-)

So, could someone recommend a set of hand tools to replace the functionality of a router and dado blades for dados, grooves, rabbets and simple molding? I am thinking a plough plane, fillister plane and a couple round/hollow planes.

To answer your question, there's a few other tools that are necessary to completely replace your (powered) router.

Specifically:

Dados - by definition, a dado is a square-bottomed groove cut across the grain anywhere along the length of a board. Except on the ends of a board, a plow plane or a moving fillister won't do it. There are several alternatives - you can saw the sides of the groove with a backsaw and use a combination of chisels and/or a router plane to remove the waste, you can saw the sides and use a rabbet or shoulder plane to remove the waste, or (probably the most efficient and most accurate) acquire a set of dado planes in the sizes you'll need most (and change the design of projects so the dados fit the tools that you have).

Grooves - the technical definition of a groove is a square-bottomed trench cut with the long or edge grain of a board and where one of the sides doesn't intersect with the corner of the board (in which case it would be a rabbet). So long as the groove one wants is within about 4" of a reference edge, a plow plane is the go-to tool for this. However, you may find as I have that a router plane with a fence is more useful for plowing out one special case - stopped grooves.

Rabbets - a square-botomed groove that intersects one of the edge-corners of a board. Here, a moving fillister is the thing to have since it doesn't need an auxillary tacked-on fence as a rabbet plane would.

Beveled edges on panels - These would typically be encountered in drawer bottoms and raised panels for cabinet doors. The ultimate, and in my opinion most useful, tool here is a dedicated panel raiser. However, there are lots, and lots and lots of ways to do this without a router or router table. One alternative is a skew block plane with a detachable sidewall as L-N makes. With the sidewall attached, the plane automatically tilts as it cuts the bevel, so it acts like a small panel raiser. If you don't make many raised panels, I would suggest going with a shoulder, rabbet or dado plane to cut the fillet between the field and the bevel, and use a rabbet block plane or a badger plane to cut the bevel.

Curved bevels on tombstone doors - Failing a very specialized coachmaker's tool that isn't often available on the antique market and is pricey when it is, most of us resort to chisels and marking tools to hand-carve these.

Moldings - Not much needs to be said here; there are thousands of profiles available in wooden planes from yesteryear, many of which are very inexpensive. In my case, I've over 400 of them. You can make any straight molding with a set of hollows and rounds, a pair of side rabbets, a pair of snipe's bills, and rabbet or moving fillister planes. While not absolutely necessary, a set of side beads are also very useful.

Curved Moldings - Here again, unless you've a few coachmaker's tools, most of us carve these with carving tools. Smaller profiles can be cut reasonably efficiently with a scratch stock or a dedicated tool like the L-N hand beader (or the recently introduced L-V equivalent).

Enjoy. Most of these tools aren't must haves except the dado planes (and only if you make a lot of dados) and a router plane, so the rest can be acquired as time and money allow.

[Dan Karachio]

Thanks everyone. I am not at all thinking of getting rid of all my power tools, but I didn't want to dwell on it for fear of going too off topic on a hand tool forum.

Here's the thing. If knowing how to do something new means just buying a new tool or bit, then I don't find that very satisfying. One of my friends, who is not a woodworker, saw some of my projects and said I have "great skills." I don't feel that way at all - I have simply bought a bunch of power tools and learned how to use them. I'd like to think there is more to wood working then measuring and setting the fence, right blade height or bit height. I don't want making great looking dovetails to mean I was successful using a $500 router jig. I think using hand tools will help me feel like I have attained a certain level of skill. Of course there are skills to using any power tool, but I guess what I am missing (and forgive me if this sounds corny), but very distant from the wood I am supposedly working.

Lately I finally learned how to sharpen my planes and chisels really really well. I also made some pretty clean and tight fitting mortise and tenon joints. While I have made big cabinet project, this was far more satisfying, so I am looking for more of the same.

[Bill Houghton]

One thing though. No way in h$ll anyone is ever taking my bandsaw away! :-)

In some circles, a bandsaw is referred to as a Neanderbuddy. It's so useful, and so quiet in comparison to most power tools, that it gets a pass from many people who are otherwise hand tool committed.

[Roy Lindberry]

Over the past four years I have built up my shop and made a number of things. I am now getting more into making furniture vs cabinetry. Some day, chairs! As I learn more and watch various shows on TV like the Woodwright's shop, I'm starting to understand a different way of doing things that is quiet, less dusty and far more connected to the idea of being a craftsman than just buying some new 2 hp thing or accessory that can chew wood in a certain way. So, I'm starting to think things like this:

"What the heck did I need all that Festool stuff for? Sell it used (good resale) and I could put the $1500 toward hand tools."

"Routers are very noisy and I hate changing the damn bits. Table saw dado blades are also a pain to change and shim out for a perfect fit. Imagine having a plough plane, fillister plane, hollow planes, round planes and more..."

"Okay, I have my 12" planer and 6" jointer now, they churn out a boat load of chips and can only handle certain sized boards. Imagine, for the price of the cheapo lunch box planer alone I could have a LN or LV jointer (already have a jack and smoother)."

And so on. I mean it's just me and it's just a hobby. I am not running a production shop. I bought into the whole power tool thing and while I certainly understand what they are for and what they do, I am discovering this is not what I want. I don't want to have to wear hearing protection and carry the darn dust collector remote with me all over the shop. I don't want my relaxing evening in the shop to make everyone else cringe with very high decibels. What I do want is this. I want to learn about wood and woodworking, make things I am proud of and be more "connected to the wood."

So, I am going to start and phase out of power and phase in to hand tools.

P.S. One thing though. No way in h$ll anyone is ever taking my bandsaw away! :-)

Working in a furniture/cabinet shop all day long, the last thing I want to do at home is work in a shop full of noise and dust. So lately, I also have been digging the old school style. My planes still need a bit of tuning, but they are working pretty well.

As a side note, I'm building a foot powered treadle lathe with a scrollsaw attachment based on Roy Underhill's design (but bigger). Not that my lathe is an exceptionally noisy tool, but I just like the idea of doing things without having to plug in the tool.