Survey: Best Hollowing Tool System

[Edward Bartimmo]

I am a little disappointed with the feedback on yesterday's post by Craig Powers. I thought I might rephrase the question...Lord knows if the topic had been Thompson tools then there would have been pages of "For" or "Against" responses.

There are three primary categories of hollowing tools:
1) Captured bar systems (such as Jameison, Kelton, Monster, etc.)
2) Articulated Arm Systems (such as Kobra, Monster, VicMarc, etc.)
3) Hand held Tools

If you have one of the tool systems (either category 1 or 2 above) I implore you to speak up and give an honest evaluation of your system. There are a lot of turners who will read this post that are interested / contemplating which system best fits their needs based on the tools design and also customer service. Before I drop +$500 on tool and accessories, I would like objective reviews of the systems, both good and bad.


Thanks in Advance,
Edward

[Bernie Weishapl]

Edward you are going to get a lot of answers. My answer is I have both the articulating arm and the captured unit (both by Monster Tools). I love them both. They each have place. I also have 2 different types of hand tools with the straight, 45 deg and 90 deg. One is made by Ellsworth and the other by a buddy of mine Vaughn McMillian. If I could have just one I would probably go with the Monster articulating arm unit. It comes complete and don't have to buy any accessories.

[Mike Minto]

I have the Jamieson system, and like it alot. Let me caveat this by saying it is the only hollowing system (other than free-handing) I've used. That said, the price is very reasonable (I made by own back support out of hardwood to help with this) and it works with bars made by others (Bosch, etc). My only complaint is that the laser support is very lightweight and subject to shake from vibration during cutting. The system gives the boring bar good support, it makes very nice cuts and will us useable on deep forms. I'd buy it again.

[Tim Rinehart]

Ed,
I went thru a process about a year ago trying to determine which was best, and there's no one absolute answer, but here's what I came away with...

Free-hand Systems, no laser:
These are the ones typically with armbraces, aka Dennis Stewart design, that several manufacturers carry. John Jordan is a notable advocate of this design, and I saw him do a demo and just made it look effortless.
Personally, I'm a chicken, and prefer not to risk the physical wrenching of a catch...so except for very shallow turning using a swan neck, I don't do free-hand....but ALOT of people out there do. This is the most 'organic' of methods, and probably yields must better technique for the purists out there.

Captured Bar (Jamieson) - I made my system based on this design, and they are very easy to make, with many variations depending on your ability and tools you have to work with. I bought a laser and tied to a battery switch box for under $10, and probably put less than $75 into entire rig. I like that I can rest my right arm on the back side while turning, as a 'rest' and to help guide the tool in and out. I get some vibration on my laser...but not enough that if I slow down I can see where it is.

Articulating - I like the looks of these, but have no experience. They look slightly more difficult to make on your own, but I've heard nothing but good things about these from Monster, Elbo and I think I've heard Vicmarc also. They seem like 'another good option', and reduce need for a rear back rest, but that's a pretty minor point in my opinion.

I don't know if that helps .... but it's what I can offer to what was a frustrating decision on my part last year.

Good luck, and if you decide on a captured or articulating system, either will likely work well for you. They're mostly "just different" from each other.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have the Jamieson and it works well for me.

There is no definitive measure of what is good and what is bad in tools. It's subjective. What I may like.....you may hate.

Find a tool and try it. Contact other turners in the area....see what they have....most are extremely generous with their time and tools. Test drive what they have.

As to which is best.....subjective. There is no definitive measurement.

[Wally Dickerman]

I've been using a Stewart arm brace tool since 1987. Since I've turned hundreds of HF's with it, I can say that I'm fairly well skilled at using it. There are a couple of manufacturers of the same type tool. Don Pencil and Sorby. Don's tool has a couple of imrovements on the Stewart tool. The Sorby is not as good as either IMO.

To safely and successfully use the arm brace tool I recommend some instruction from someone who uses one. There is a definite learning curve to using it. There is a lot of leverage when your tool is cutting 12 or more inches off the tool rest. Properly used, the arm brace can control any catches that might occur. I've never come close to injuring myself when using it.

At the Albuquerque symposium last June I took a good look at the Monster articulating hollowing tool and was impressed. I may end up getting one. The captured tools such as Kobra, Jamieson, Monster, etc. are becoming more popular. I've used the Jamieson and found it to be quite easy to use.

There is a huge difference in hollowing an open bowl and hollowing a closed form vessel.

Wally

[Brendan Stemp]

I always say that there ain't one 'ultimate' deep hollowing tool. If you are doing small stuff, there is no need to spend big bucks, something like the simple Sorby tool will do the job and it ain't too expensive. Another good one is the Woodcut Proforme which has the 'cutter governor' which makes the tool foolproof (catch proof). Rolly Munroe also makes a similar product. The 'captured' tools are good but you lose all feel for what is going on. And so on it goes.....

[Steve Schlumpf]

Edward - I also suggest you find folks close to you that have the various systems so you can try them out. What works for me - may not work for you.

That said - I have both of the Monster systems as well as some of the hand held Sorby tools. At this point in time the Sorby hollowing tools gather dust as, for me, they are not very much fun to use! All of the rotational forces that the tool is subjected to are transferred directly to you! A few hollow forms like that and I opted for something better. Enter Monster hollowing systems...

The captured system is wonderful at absorbing all those forces encountered when roughing out a hollow form. I find I use the captured system for most of my hollowing and that is primarily because I am used to the system. The laser that Randy uses work flawlessly and I have gotten to the point - I do not want to hollow without it.

The articulated system is so smooth you would be amazed at how small of a ridge you can feel inside of a hollow form. I change the system over from captured to articulated when it comes time to finish turn. Like anything you use for awhile - you develop a feel for it and I still am amazed at how smooth a surface the system can create!

As mentioned - you need to try out the different systems and find what works best for you. You don't list your location - but it would help identify folks close to you.

Best of luck finding a system that works for you. There are a lot of them out there but I think you would be impressed if you got your hands on a Monster system. If you feel like a road trip - you are welcome to stop in and try out both of my Monster systems!

[Dennis Ford]

In addition to the swan neck style tools, I use a home-made version of the Jamieson system. Mine is made of heavy bar stock so it is plenty strong but it does not slide as easily as I would like. I plan to improve this by adding a strip of Delrin plastic to the trap. I have not used an articulated system but all those joints concern me as pinch points during mounting/unmounting. I can understand how the articulated system could be very smooth during use.

[Richard Madison]

Dennis, Have you considered rebuilding you trap using rollers? Just a thought.

[Allen Neighbors]

I have a homemade captured bar system, that I made after seeing the Kelton Rig at a demonstration in GA. I love it for getting into deep vases (14-16") and hollowforms, where I'm going in 3/4" hole and reaching 6-8" across to the shoulder. It has a laser on it that makes me lazy.
I also have Don Pencils Spider with the arm cradle system... I love it for doing quick hollowing on medium hollowforms.
I also have homemade hand tools, both, straight and swan neck, that I use for smaller hollowforms.
I use them all... and, after seeing the articulating arm system, I believe my captured bar system looks a mite stronger. Just an opinion, here, not trying to start a fight.
I agree with Steve's suggestion, to locate someone close to you and try them out. Then you'd at least have an idea which one you'd favor.

[Neil Strong]

Have never used any of the captured hollowing rigs, so can't comment. All my hollowing is done freehand with a variety of commercial and homemade tools. Currently using the Munro a fair bit and quite like it for some cuts. Also make some of my own hook tools, but they are time consuming.

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[Steve Schlumpf]

Neil - Welcome to the Creek! Looking forward to seeing some of your work!

[Bill Wilcox]

I have been looking around for a hollowing system myself.

Has anyone or, does anyone, have or used the KOBRA Hollowing System??
I have seen some videos on YouTube and it seems like a very nice system. I also see that the price is up there in the VORTEX however, when your in the "V", is price really an issue for a tool as substantial and well made as the KOBRA is?
If anyone has input on this please chime in cuz the pull on me is strong to go ahead and order one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcx-T6UnZ0

Thanks,
Bill Wilcox

[Stuart Reid]

I bought the Elbo Hollowing System from Stan Townsend at the S.W.A.T. symposium last Fall and have found it to work very well. I did have to make one adjustment and that was to file a flat spot on the round bar that holds the cutter so that it would not twist while cutting. Otherwise it works great and does the job for a lot less than many of the other systems. It can also use the round Hunter Cutters as well as the straight cutter that came with the unit.

Stu

[Chris Stolicky]

I have used hand held tools the most when hollowing. I have the smaller multi-tip sorby, but mostly use homemade ellsworth style and hunter style tools.

Now, I recently got to use the Monster articulating setup, and I can say that it is very nice; ans also has the price tag to match.

Being the person I am, like many turners I know, I try to be as thrifty as possible, when I can, but I also know my limitations. I am going to build a Jamieson style captured setup in the coming months for both myself and my FIL. I met Jamieson at the Totally Turning symposium back in March and took a look at his set up. After I build these, I may eventually go the articulating route. Like Steve said above, there are times when both are useful.

The Monster is nice. If I had the money, I would consider it. I could save up for it (and may someday) but I also have fun making things in general, so I will go the latter route for now. The quality will not be the same, but it also does not have to be.

[Neil Strong]

Neil - Welcome to the Creek!

Thanks Steve.

Have browsed (or should I say I have drunk) here from time to time and have found much value in the forum.

Robo Hippy (Reed Gray) recently joined another woodturning forum that I belong to, where there are some existing valued members of both forums, and he and they provide high value input to that forum. So I thought it only fair, and about time, that I signed up here to have my occasional 2c worth.

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[Tom Lewis]

I have both systems. I like the captured with a laser the best.

[Richard Madden]

I recently made one of the articulated arm systems with the help from some members here. I'd love to show some pictures, but still haven't figured out how to on this forum. I also have the Don Pencil Scorpion and Stinger set up. The DP is a fine tool, I like it, but since finishing the articulated arm or "snake" as some call it, there are two things that I noticed right away...ease of use and comfort. My back appreciates the comfort part, no more bending, stand straight. And I appreciate the ease of use. The one I made will accept the Scorpion and Stinger tools and most others that are 3/4" or less. I was going to make one of the captive rig types, but changed my mind. I was a little concerned about the space needed behind the lathe for the rear tool rest.
Good advice here to try one or the other or both before deciding. If money is no object, buy one. For me, it was an object, so I built one. Cost was about $125.00. That was buying everything retail, no free parts or scraps used.