Help Identifying These?

[Greg Crawford]

I just met a lady who's husband had to be placed in a nursing home. She now has the task of dispersing his huge collection of hand and power tools. I came across a couple of items that have me puzzled. Any help ID'ing these would be great.

The knife-looking tool has Robt. Sorby on it, and is thick in the middle down the length, then tapers toward the sides like a dagger. The overall shape looks factory to me, but I'm not sure about the notches. I'm guessing it was a wire stripper, or at least modified and used for that.

The saw has the slip-on cover that fits like a glove, literally. The saw has been sharpened a bit, and the cover appears to have been made to fit the full width blade when new. The strap across the top is brass with small brass screws. Is this possibly something that came with the saw? I can't make out the name in the pics I took, and don't remember what it said. It was very difficult to make it out anyway. The bottom line is Sheffield, the medalion has no lettering. It does have split nuts, in case that helps.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Greg

[Jared McMahon]

Unless I'm completely mistaken, the first item is a saw wrest.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/ftj/spring97/spring97.html

[greg Forster]

Greg,

the "wire stripper" is a saw set.

I tried enlarging the saw photo, but just can't tell the name



Greg



ps I was in Spring about 3 years ago for chapter meting of SAPFM;
great bunch of guys if you're not a member, consider it

[Greg Crawford]

Thanks for the info. It makes sense now, as he had a lot of hand saws.

[Jim Koepke]

The saw looks like nice. If it works well, it doesn't matter who made it. Over time, just keep searching the name and eventually some information may pop up.

On another note, if you are assisting this woman, you might suggest she keep a few tools to take to her husband when she or other family visits.

When my father was in a nursing home, he always seemed to enjoy it most when I brought a tool I had just acquired to show to him.

I would suggest something like a small plane with a dulled blade. My dad tended to hold the tools and run his hands all over them. They brought back memories for him and seemed to lift his spirits for a while.

jim

[Greg Crawford]

Thanks Jim, I'll suggest that to her. I love woodworkers! They all seem to have great big hearts.

I'm wondering about the saw cover making the saw worth a great deal more, kind of like having an original box for a tool. I don't want to see her sell something for half of what it's worth. I've just never seen anything like it, and didn't know if it was shop-made or factory. If her husband made it, it might be a great piece to take on a visit.

Thanks Again

[george wilson]

The saw wrest has a split screwdriver on its end for tightening the split nuts. Looks like a nice pair of tools. Are they for sale?

[Rob Woodman]

Greg, the first pic is of a Robert Sorby saw setting tool. I have one just like it. The slots in the blade are to accomodate differing saw tooth pitches/steel thickness and the truncated end is for tightening the 'T-nut' type screws that affix the handle to the sawblade, as these tend to work loose over time and use.
The cover for the tenon saw blade is probably owner made with a great deal of thought due to the brass 'clasp' to keep it in place.

Robert Sorby is a long standing quality tool maker in the UK. Maybe the husband hails from England or has/had family here?

As an addendum to Jim Koepke's post, my father always brightened up when we discussed photo's of my latest work projects. One never loses a passion.

Rob.

[Greg Crawford]

George,

Great information. It's all starting to make sense now. I was hoping you'd see this.

Yes, they're for sale, but I think the saw is spoken for unless it's value as a collectible would put the price extremely high. I have to be careful about violating the TOS though. I'm no longer a contributor, so I can't post in the classified, and mentioning an item for sale here is seen as trying to circumvent the rules.

If I posted the pics of the whole shop, some readers might actually faint! She wants to sell locally instead of trying to post on a forum and then have to pack, ship, etc., and she hates that un-mentionable auction site. There are several of us around here trying to help her price the items correctly. I don't know if it would be proper to have you PM me so I can put you in touch with her or not. I would like to be able to have you see some of the other items to help determine their value, though.

Thanks for the info!

[john brenton]

Jim:
That was really touching. If I wasn't so macho I'd probably cry. With my dad it will be anything to do with ships. He was a merchant marine back when. Damn.

To the OP:
Although I'm sure that there were lots of maker's marks with crowns in Sheffield, the two that come to mind are Sorby and Mathieson.. The name looks way too long to be Sorby, although some read "Robt. Sorby" or "R Sorby" (Don't remember). I've got sorby's with different marks to. I've got a set of gouges that have an iron cross, and two plane irons that have some other stuff. Check out the Mathieson though, I believe they made saws as well.


The saw looks like nice. If it works well, it doesn't matter who made it. Over time, just keep searching the name and eventually some information may pop up.

On another note, if you are assisting this woman, you might suggest she keep a few tools to take to her husband when she or other family visits.

When my father was in a nursing home, he always seemed to enjoy it most when I brought a tool I had just acquired to show to him.

I would suggest something like a small plane with a dulled blade. My dad tended to hold the tools and run his hands all over them. They brought back memories for him and seemed to lift his spirits for a while.

jim

[David Keller NC]

George,

Great information. It's all starting to make sense now. I was hoping you'd see this.

Yes, they're for sale, but I think the saw is spoken for unless it's value as a collectible would put the price extremely high. I have to be careful about violating the TOS though. I'm no longer a contributor, so I can't post in the classified, and mentioning an item for sale here is seen as trying to circumvent the rules.

If I posted the pics of the whole shop, some readers might actually faint! She wants to sell locally instead of trying to post on a forum and then have to pack, ship, etc., and she hates that un-mentionable auction site. There are several of us around here trying to help her price the items correctly. I don't know if it would be proper to have you PM me so I can put you in touch with her or not. I would like to be able to have you see some of the other items to help determine their value, though.

Thanks for the info!

Greg - It is very important that you determine the maker of that saw. While some of these patterns didn't change for a hundred years, the handle form and hang (the angle that the handle makes with the tooth line) strongly suggests that's an early saw.

Either you've a $125 item, or in the very, very small chance that the saw is 18th century Sheffield, you've a saw worth about $550 to over a thousand if it's a few particular makers.

This, of course, is very important for everything else in the shop. 99% of it will be just nice (or not so nice) workaday tools, and can be sold for about the value that you see similar items go for in the SMC Classifieds. However, collector's items are always worth a fair amount over that, and a few collector's items are worth a great deal over just the item as a tool. A good example is a Disston combination square, level and scribe saw. Unless they're in exceptionally poor condition, they are worth well in excess of $500 at any large tool auction.

[Greg Crawford]

John,

It's not Sorby, but I'm not sure if it can be Mathieson. It may be. At least it's a target. I need to go back with a magnifying glass.

David,

It has split nuts, which most likely makes it pretty old. I don't know if it's as early as the 18th century though. I will definitely let Mrs. Ott know. I told her not to sell it until myself and others had time to investigate. I know she'll appreciate the advice if it's that pricey.

Mr. Ott bought most of his hand tools all in one purchase out of a divorce settlement in CA. Where that guy got everything isn't known.

Still no input as to the saw cover? That's what really got me intrigued about the saw.

Thanks All

[David Keller NC]

John,

It's not Sorby, but I'm not sure if it can be Mathieson. It may be. At least it's a target. I need to go back with a magnifying glass.

David,

It has split nuts, which most likely makes it pretty old. I don't know if it's as early as the 18th century though. I will definitely let Mrs. Ott know. I told her not to sell it until myself and others had time to investigate. I know she'll appreciate the advice if it's that pricey.

Mr. Ott bought most of his hand tools all in one purchase out of a divorce settlement in CA. Where that guy got everything isn't known.

Still no input as to the saw cover? That's what really got me intrigued about the saw.

Thanks All

Greg - the saw cover is in all likelyhood user-made. I'm not aware of any British or American manufacturer that routinely offerred a custom cover like that with their saws. BTW - split nuts don't really make the saw really old, they are the most common attachment method for 19th century (as well as early to mid 20th century) saws of high quality. However, split nuts do appear on mid to late 18th century saws, and before that, the plates were typically riveted to the handle. An 18th century British saw, or an early 19th century American maker are the valuble ones. Exactly how valuble it is depends greatly on condition and who made it. Just as an example - any saw marked Kenyon, Freeth, or White would likely be very early and quite valuble.

What I'd suggest to the wife is that she sell lumber and power tools first - those aren't collector's items, and their value is fairly easy to come up with. Get someone that's knowledgeable from the local chapter of the MWTCA, and who is not interested in buying, to evaluate what she's got in the way of hand tools. If the gentleman is well up in years and bought a whole collection 20 or more years ago, he may well have some very valuble items.

[James Taglienti]

Whatever david just said. There could be some money there, and you want to help those folks squeeze it for everything it's worth. There are a lot of sharks out there, so watch out.

[Greg Crawford]

The sharks are what I'm trying to help her avoid. There are several others watching out for her, too.

My boss noticed that the saw cover grain seems to match the grain on the handle. I'm going to have to check that out, and get the name.

Thanks Again,

Greg

[Tony Shea]

It's nice to see that some people are taking care of a seemingly wonderful elderly lady and her husbands tool collection. And I agree about staying away from the often times extremely ruthless people over on some of the large auction sites. This is a great site and most will help in ways that can only be experienced to be believed and I think you're in great hands on this site. I would love to see this collection and wish I was a local with the opportunity to maybe leave home with some. That saw looks to be in great shape with what seems to be a very well made saw sleeve. Seems as though some time and great thought went into making that cover. Great pics of some great tools.

[Jeff Burks]

Mark Conley put together an info site for saw sets.
The Saw Set Collector's Resource (http://members.acmenet.net/~con12a/).

[Greg Crawford]

Cool Jeff! There it was (not exact, but awful close), a common English wrest. Thanks for the link. I'd never seen that site before.

Tony, it seems that older tools and machinery are much more scarce in "these parts". It really makes this more enjoyable for me. I see some of the stuff that's found in the N.E., and I just dream about all the tools that are still around up there. The grass is always greener, right?

[Greg Crawford]

I finally got to get some better pics of the backsaw. It says S. SWANN & CO Sheffield.

If this helps anyone to nail down the value of the saw, Mrs. Ott would be very grateful. She has expressed immense gratitude to all. She also liked the suggestion of taking a tool to her husband, but is afraid it would make him sad. In his last years, his ability to use his shop went downhill, and he got rather frustrated. He also no longer associated with other woodworkers, as he was embarrassed that he would forget their names.

She's very content with the life they had, though. Like many of us, his love, or I should say passion, for woodworking started in Jr High and High School shop. He built a sailboat and raced it for many years, and also built a power boat they fished from all around the coast of Florida. These are just two of the many projects he built over his life.

Thanks once again for all the help.

Greg

[george wilson]

The saw looks 19th.C. to me. 18th.C. saws that I have examined had thinner STEEL backs than that saw. The brass ones could be a LOT thicker,and,indeed were on the Kenyons. The design of the handle screams "industrial revolution". The name confirms it,anyway.