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toni split
05-26-2010, 5:39 AM
I buy rabbit laser machine and it was one of the wrongest jobs in my life...
In eight months all I succeed to do are 10 jobs.
My job is glass engraving and I lose all my coustumers in that period and now I have to close business.
Before I worked with epilog laser and never have problems like this.
Lenses from rabbit cant do 3 jobs in a row and they broke after that.
I dont get any help from they staff because they say that they dont know reason for that but every time they charge me new lens.
Last lens was much more expensive because they say it is more quality but same thing happend and I cant get any good help from them.

I would appreciate any good advise.

thank you

Dan Hintz
05-26-2010, 6:16 AM
You're saying the lens breaks after only three jobs? A good possibility is a poor alignment, leading to the beam heating up the aluminum holder rather than going through the lens. Or you're lasering some really nasty outgassing material and you need to add a proper vacuum system (assuming you are currently using one... if not, well, there's little we can do to help you).

My best advise? Don't try to run a business using equipment you can't count on and you can't fix.

Frank Corker
05-26-2010, 7:13 AM
I agree with Dan on both. Something has to be wrong with your machine set up for the lens to break, but never having seen one of these working I can't really say. I do know that if you go for the lesser priced machines, then you really do have to work hard for your money. James Jaragosky is one of those, he really knows his way around his Chinese laser and makes it work to it's full capacity.

toni split
05-26-2010, 11:19 AM
As I understand till now from manufacturer,main problem is reflection that make lens under extra heating and that make it more breakable.
But they dont give me solution for that and I need myself to find how to resolve that problem.

Dan Hintz
05-26-2010, 11:41 AM
Where is this reflection coming from? What material are you cutting?

James Jaragosky
05-26-2010, 12:04 PM
Sorry to hear that you are experiencing problems.
First off Chinese machines are notorious for their lack of support. Any equipment that is made and supported by a company form any country that does not speak your native language will be hard to deal with. You exchange service for price when you purchase a Chinese manufactured laser.
Now to your problem.
Frank and Dan have given you some sage advice.
Are you only lasing glass? Wood and other products can and will cause crud to build up on the lens causing heat buildup.
Did you properly align the beam to dead center of all the mirrors and the lens? If not this could be your problem. It took me 4 hours to get my beam dead center. And it is time to adjust it again.
Also do you operate your machine in a high humidity area? Even the slightest of moisture on the lens will cause heat buildup and crack the lens.
Do you have air assist and is it working properly?
Reflection can cause some issues but the odds of a perfect reflection back to the lens seem small unless you are lasing the front side of a mirror.
What model machine do you have?

I ran my rabbit 10 hours a day for the last three days and 18 hours yesterday. Cutting and engraving Baltic birch.
Thanks for reminding me to clean my mirrors and lens today.
I hope you get your problems worked out.
Best regards
Jim J

Dan Hintz
05-26-2010, 1:04 PM
Reflection can cause some issues but the odds of a perfect reflection back to the lens seem small unless you are lasing the front side of a mirror.
And even that is acceptable as the glass will absorb the vast majority of the laser power.

Alexa Ristow
05-27-2010, 3:43 AM
Hi,
We are presently using our Rabbit 6090SE for about 6 hours a day, 6 days a week ,cutting and engraving. We have found our machine to be an absolute workhorse with no technical issues or breakages in 2 years.

In terms of broken lenses and alignment, the easiest way to check for poor alignment is to feel the mirror and lens mounts after about five minutes of cutting. if they are not at the same temperature as when you started, then your beam might be grazing the edge of the head and heating it up. this translates into lost power and potential lens damage.

While serious misalignment will be obvious due to nol asering, a small graze will be harder to detect. By placing a white self adhesive label over the flat surface with the hole leading to the final mirror and cutting out the hole with a craft knife, you will be abel to detect scorching caused by even a minor graze.

Your final best friend will be air assist if you have it. Run it even if you are engraving glass. By creating air flow over the lower surface of the lens, it helps reduce buildup as well as providing cooling.

Good luck,

Alexa

toni split
05-28-2010, 8:19 AM
guys thank you all for good advices,I order new lens with bigger focus and I will try everything from your advices.
James you give me thinking with your advice for humidity.
Can you please tell me more things about posibilites with that problem.

thank you

Scott Shepherd
05-28-2010, 8:24 AM
New lens with larger focus isn't going to change your issue. Don't be disappointed if that lens breaks too.

You have a serious issue you need to correct before destroying another brand new lens, in my opinion. The lens is the very last thing to put in. Once you check everything else and get it aligned perfectly, only then do you put the lens in.

James Jaragosky
05-28-2010, 12:14 PM
New lens with larger focus isn't going to change your issue. Don't be disappointed if that lens breaks too.

You have a serious issue you need to correct before destroying another brand new lens, in my opinion. The lens is the very last thing to put in. Once you check everything else and get it aligned perfectly, only then do you put the lens in.
Scott is correct, you need to identify your problem before you damage another lens.
Heat build is your most likely problem. track down why the lens is overheating before you waste more money.
Jim J.

Earl Cox
05-28-2010, 2:41 PM
I bought my machine from Scottware.net, in Ohio. I have not had any issues with my RL40-6040.

Joe Pelonio
05-28-2010, 10:43 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that what keeps the laser from burning a hole in the lens (or cracking it) is the coating, which contains a metal such as ZnSe, making them expensive but able to handle the beam. If Toni is buying all his lenses from the same source and they happened to get a bad batch from their supplier, perhaps trying a different source would help.

Viktor Voroncov
05-29-2010, 3:51 AM
Agree with Joe. Have many customers who have a lot of problem with chinese lenses and ESPECIALLY mirrors. In one laser we have replaced chinese mirrors with old and heavily used mirrors from GCC - customer work well more than 6 months.
Really I do not have experience with replacing Chinese lens to brand lens, but I think it's possible. You can buy lens only from laserresearch.net ant try.

About defective batch products from China - I can told one interesting story about exchange of defective laser tube in one Chinese company :) Was really bad experience :(

Dan Hintz
05-29-2010, 8:21 AM
I understood that what keeps the laser from burning a hole in the lens (or cracking it) is the coating, which contains a metal such as ZnSe, making them expensive but able to handle the beam.
Joe,

It's not just a coating, the entire lens is made of ZnSe... this is what allows it to pass the near-IR wavelength of the CO2 output. If it was just a coating, the beam would break the lens within a few seconds at high power, and nothing would pass through it.

The only coating on the lens is an anti-reflective one that's hygroscopic, the reason you need to ensure whatever cleaning solution you use does not contain water.

Hannu Rinne
05-29-2010, 3:18 PM
Around last x-mas I purchased some lenses and mirrors from this Chinese company ( www.eclaser.cn (http://www.eclaser.cn) ). Lenses are made of ZnSe, ZnSe PVD - $ 28,-/ piece and ZnSe CVD - $ 49,-/piece. Honestly saying I don't have any idea what's the difference between PVD / CVD :o , but I've tested both of those and seems to work great even I'm quite lazy to clean them... I don't know the prices in US, but these feels quite cheat ( of course have to add taxes & delivery, but still... ). Mirrors - Molybdenum and Silicon - was $ 19,-/piece.

- Hannu

toni split
11-01-2010, 5:37 PM
hi guys,

focus was problem.most probably because I work almost only with glass,lens get to much dirt to quickly and probably it heated more because of that.
Last two months I work with lens from same company but with bigger focus and till now I didnt have any problem.
thank you one more time for your advices

Dan Hintz
11-01-2010, 5:49 PM
Toni,

Glass is a very "clean" substrate, at least from the point of view of the lens. Whatever glass chips off will not adhere to your lens, so if you are seeing a lot of dirt build-up, it's not from the glass, it's from something else. Maybe you need to filter your air supply...

toni split
11-02-2010, 7:32 AM
Dan,

air supply works very good.
Glass is not so clean like you say.
My main work are drinking glasses and when I put 100 pcs in machine to do work,little pieces (it looks like very fine powder )stays on lens and most probably it doesent let beam to go throw that or make double reflection I dont know but after I put 60 mm focus lens (old one was 41 mm)I dont see any dirt on lens and I can do my jobs without any problem.
Now is allmost three months that I work and without any problem.
With old lenses I couldnt do 5 - 10 jobs before lens broke.

Dan Hintz
11-02-2010, 7:55 AM
You have air issues... I have cut maple plaques for an hour and a half straight without any noticeable buildup of smoke on the lens (and this was without air assist across the lens, just the dust collector running). Glass shards should not be sticking to your lens (and yes, there will be a fine dust created, but it should be sucked up by your dust collector).

toni split
11-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Ok,thank you...

Bill Cunningham
11-02-2010, 10:06 PM
I do from about 10 thousand (+-) glasses per year, and have been running the same lens for 7 years. Dans right, you do not have enough airflow through your machine to remove glass dust and particles. You don't need air assist for glass, but unless you have enough air flow 'through' the machine to your outdoor vent, the glass dust is going to build up, and eventually ruin something else besides your lens..

Michael Kowalczyk
11-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Sorry to hear that you are experiencing problems.
First off Chinese machines are notorious for their lack of support. Any equipment that is made and supported by a company form any country that does not speak your native language will be hard to deal with. You exchange service for price when you purchase a Chinese manufactured laser.
Now to your problem.
Frank and Dan have given you some sage advice.
Are you only lasing glass? Wood and other products can and will cause crud to build up on the lens causing heat buildup.
Did you properly align the beam to dead center of all the mirrors and the lens? If not this could be your problem. It took me 4 hours to get my beam dead center. And it is time to adjust it again.
Also do you operate your machine in a high humidity area? Even the slightest of moisture on the lens will cause heat buildup and crack the lens.
Do you have air assist and is it working properly?
Reflection can cause some issues but the odds of a perfect reflection back to the lens seem small unless you are lasing the front side of a mirror.
What model machine do you have?

I ran my rabbit 10 hours a day for the last three days and 18 hours yesterday. Cutting and engraving Baltic birch.
Thanks for reminding me to clean my mirrors and lens today.
I hope you get your problems worked out.
Best regards
Jim J
Hey Jim,
Not to side track this post but 3 10 hour days and an 18 hour day of lasering Baltic birch. WOW!!!! That's a lot of birch. Glad you're keeping it busy. Are you building a house? Ornaments, tributes or ???

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post and ...

toni split
11-03-2010, 2:51 PM
I do from about 10 thousand (+-) glasses per year, and have been running the same lens for 7 years. Dans right, you do not have enough airflow through your machine to remove glass dust and particles. You don't need air assist for glass, but unless you have enough air flow 'through' the machine to your outdoor vent, the glass dust is going to build up, and eventually ruin something else besides your lens..
But I use and airflow and air assist togheter all the time...
I dont know,so far for the last three months I work without any problem but now when you insisting on air problems if next time something happen with lens that will be first thing that I will maximize.
Thank you all for advices,it is nice to get help with this things...:)

Dan Hintz
11-03-2010, 8:21 PM
Show us a clear picture of your lens after it has gone bad... don't clean it at all, just take a picture fresh out of the machine.

James Jaragosky
11-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Hey Jim,
Not to side track this post but 3 10 hour days and an 18 hour day of lasering Baltic birch. WOW!!!! That's a lot of birch. Glad you're keeping it busy. Are you building a house? Ornaments, tributes or ???

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post and ...

I was doing a run for a internet business that sells dog related items. based out of Washington. This was the second order from them and it was much larger than the first. Full of Christmas themed stuff they designed.

toni split
11-13-2010, 2:37 PM
dan unfortunally I didnt take pictures of dirty lenses but I have one that I pictured after it was broken so I will attach that picture.
Maybe in my workshop I have somewhere more old lenses that are not cleared If I find it I will post it.
first picture is soon before damage and second one is after

Dan Hintz
11-14-2010, 9:57 AM
That is a seriously dirty lens... if you can see dirt with the naked eye, it needs to be cleaned. Continuing to use it at that point is begging for fatal damage.

toni split
11-14-2010, 11:43 AM
It is not dirt,it is damaged...

Dan Hintz
11-14-2010, 2:30 PM
Damage like that does not happen on multiple lenses unless you are doing something wrong, such as not keeping the lens clean, not ensuring proper airflow, etc. There's only so many ways I can say it, but the lens or machine is not your problem, something you are (not) doing is...

Is your air assist free of moisture?