G0441 Cyclone Install

[Matt Meiser]

Got my G0441 cyclone installed today and powered it up. Startup was rough--kept blowing the breaker until I covered the inlet. After I did that and let it run a while its starting up the way it should. Going to call tech support in the morning and see what they have to say. I'm glad its working, but waiting for the other shoe to fall if you will due to the trouble.

I tucked it into the corner pretty tight. Any tighter and we wouldn't have been able to get the bolts in. The starter would have interfered with my tool cabinet if I mounted it where Grizzly intended but I found a suitable location nearby.

But now that its running--this thing sucks some serious air. I've just got a short length of pipe on it, but...WOW!

[tyler mckenzie]

I'll be interested to know how this serves you. Hows the noise level?

[Stan Mitchell]

Nice install Matt - painted the supports and everything - looks sharp!

That thing should have plenty of power to service your shop the way you described it previously. I'm guessing you'll be able to leave a couple gates open at a time with no problem.

I have the 2hp version stuffed in a corner about like your arrangement - except that I almost couldn't get to the bolts that hold the cone on (Oops, just a little too tight a fit).

I was really surprised by the noise level they generate. With the cyclone and the planer going at the same time, it makes for quite a roar. I'm considering moving mine to an adjacent shed and then running the plumbing through the wall to reduce some of the noise.

[Matt Meiser]

Its loud but a lower frequency sound than I expected. They include the muffler with the G0441. I think it might be a little louder than my previous cyclone which would be expected with a 30% larger, and better designed from what I can see, fan.

[C Scott McDonald]

I thought you where not suppose to start the motor without any pipe connected for some reason. Would pull to many amps.

looks like a nice install. I was thinking about getting that one but etting the metal stand instead of attaching it to the wall.

[glenn bradley]

I thought you where not suppose to start the motor without any pipe connected for some reason. Would pull to many amps.

Correct. I did not have breaker trouble with the 2HP during a couple test fires prior to ducting but, I did not ever let it get up to speed. Without the resistance of a given amount of captive air weight / pipe length, the draw is kinda "sudden-like".

I think you are gonna love that machine. I have the G0440 as I just couldn't quite shoe-horn the 441 into the space I have. I have a second unit that handles the jointer and planer only and the 2HP unit does a great job on the balance of the machines. Congrats.

I had a squeak a few seconds long just as the motor made its last revolution after powerdown. I chased that for awhile with Grizzly tech support. Turned out to be a very easy fix on the centrifugal switch; the plastic surface was a little irregular. I laid some 400 grit on the tablesaw and sanded the plastic "foot" just a bit and it quieted it right down. Just thought I'd mention it to save you the trouble in case you have similar symptoms.

I run mine nearly every day, off and on as needs require. It has been faultless and a pleasure to own. I do wish the remote didn't require line-of-sight. It is a very minor and rare inconvenience. There are cures for that but, it doesn't bother me enough to buy the hardware required.

[Dave MacArthur]

Matt--
(FIRST, congrats on the great cyclone! Nice gloat!)
now:
the MAX AMPS the cyclone will pull is when you run it with NO LOAD, that is, no pipe or restrictions! DON'T DO THAT! Of course it peaks out and pops your CB. However, you can damage the thing if your run it without a load like that. This is one of the main reasons folks have questions on what is required for motor/circuit on DCs--the manufacturers say all the time not to run it with no pipe/load connected, but folks do it anyways, so they have to engineer in protections for that.

Bill Pentz' site, and a LOT of threads on the Workshop forum here (where all the DC stuff is) talk about the fact that the inlet size on many of these cyclones is "necked down" lower than it should be (5" vs 6" or 7" that the motor/CFM could handle), specifically to provide a limit to the thing hurting itself due to running with no load (the 5" provides a load vs. the 7" the motor could handle).

There was a thread just this week maybe 3 days ago on this topic in Workshops if you want to read some more.

[Matt Meiser]

What I wrote is actually a much-condensed version of what I did. The first try it didn't even start with the inlet blocked. After checking through everything I figured it had to be the motor. The breaker is (was) tripping on startup amps...unless the overloads aren't working it is settling back to with the rated range quick enough to not trip the them. Grizzly had them set for 22A. It was fine again this morning when I went out to check on the dehumidifier in my storage area but I'm going to call in a bit and see what they have to say.

Regarding no ducting, I thought that too--but the manual calls for doing a test run after assembly. Doesn't say anything about needing to put ductwork up to. Unless I'm seriously misreading the manual which is certainly possible.

[Steve Peterson]

Regarding no ducting, that I thought too--but the manual calls for doing a test run after assembly. Doesn't say anything about needing to put ductwork up to. Unless I'm seriously misreading the manual which is certainly possible.

Is the initial test run specified to be of limited duration? Otherwise, the blower can draw a huge amount of current when they reach full speed and start moving a lot of air.

Steve

[Matt Meiser]

No, and they actually tell you to run through a few different tests with the timer. I've got a call into Grizzly and am waiting for a call back from from one of their electricians.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Matt,

The installation portion of the manual for my Oneida said specifically to not turn it on without any duct hooked to it.

[Gregory Stahl]

I assume you are running this on a 20A breaker. I had mine running on a 20A with a very stiff source and I tripped the breaker every start-up. I installed a 30A circuit and have not had a breaker trip since.

There was a lengthly thread regarding this on sawmill and woodnet about 1.5-years ago. The end result was Grizzly updated the manual to call for a 30A circuit.

I was always going to take measurements on my G0441 with a good power meter to see the true HP of the machine, but ended up having to move my shop so never got to this.

BTW, I have been very happy with my G0441. I run some long ducts and this machine SUCKS! Barrel after barrel of sawdust gets rolled out of my shop!

Greg

[Matt Meiser]

I run mine nearly every day, off and on as needs require. It has been faultless and a pleasure to own. I do wish the remote didn't require line-of-sight. It is a very minor and rare inconvenience. There are cures for that but, it doesn't bother me enough to buy the hardware required.

I helped another creeker wire a Long Ranger remote into his G0441 back around the new year. We just mounted it to the side of the Grizzly starter and wired it so that it would make the contactor.

He has his mounted in a closet. I brought a set of remote repeaters I have for him to try and that worked with the factory system. But it wasn't much different price-wise for him to buy the LR vs. a set of repeaters. I did find it funny that the manual says they used an IR system to prevent problems with interference from other RF sources. But Shop Fox makes and RF system--does that mean they've found it to be affected by stray RF? Or are bears more susceptible to RF than foxes? :)

LOS won't be a problem in my shop. But I do think I'm going to order a couple extra remotes from Grizzly. One for the drawer and one to hang on a string somewhere centrally located in the shop for when I misplace the one in my apron. :rolleyes: They only want $12/remote.

I think I found a source for bags as well. McMaster Carr sells 25 count boxes of 3 mil bags for about $28 that should work. The bag that the drum was wrapped in when it was shipped was about 2 mil and felt pretty thick to me. The filter bag is 5 mil though and I didn't see anything at McMaster that would work for there. I think I'm going to use some 1/4" ply to build a 3-sided shroud to protect the filter bag from accidental punctures.

[Matt Meiser]

Greg, I do have it on a 30A circuit. At some point I plan to put my clamp-on ammeter on it and get a feel for actual running current. Mine isn't good enough to get a good startup current reading though.

[Gregory Stahl]

Yea, need an oscilloscope to measure the inrush current.

I would look for a breaker with a longer time delay. I can run mine without the ductwork attached as long as I want--never trip the breaker.

I did have an issue where the wires in the control box were not tight and were arking. This tripped the machine over-load though, not the circuit breaker.

Best,
Greg



Greg, I do have it on a 30A circuit. At some point I plan to put my clamp-on ammeter on it and get a feel for actual running current. Mine isn't good enough to get a good startup current reading though.

[Jeff Monson]

Matt congrats and nice install, I've been looking really hard at the 2hp unit. Mine would require it to be mounted higher on the wall, so can the clear tube that leads to the drum be lengthened without any performance loss?

[Matt Meiser]

I can't comment on the physics, but my friend did exactly that and I've never heard him say it was a problem.

[Paul McGaha]

Matt,

I'm watching your install with interest as I have one going on too.

PHM

[Matt Meiser]

After a little prod I got call back from Grizzly. They can't explain what happened. He said its not unheard of to have the CB blow with no ducting, but that it shouldn't have blown with the inlet covered. His thinking is basically the same as mine--document the issue and if something comes up down the road deal with it then. He did want me to take a current reading with it running to make sure its not out of range, but we both agreed that it probably is fine since the overloads aren't tripping.

Hoping to make significant progress on the ductwork tomorrow. Quite a bit of it is actually up, but I've been working backward toward the cyclone--which was a good idea since I changed cyclones.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, another creeker came last night and helped me finish the rest of the duct runs. After he left I installed my bin level sensor in the lid of the drum. Tonight I finished up the electrical, including wiring up the sensor and started working on the drops and hookups for each machine. I've got a couple blast gates to make and I've got to seal all the joints and then I should pretty much be done. Well, after a TON of cleanup anyway.

[glenn bradley]

We just mounted it to the side of the Grizzly starter and wired it so that it would make the contactor.

You da man Matt. Great info.

[Terry Hatfield]

Congrats Matt! Looks great!

t

[Matt Meiser]

More photos of the installed cyclone. I added my bin level sensor last week and today built some new blast gates. I decided to try the Terry Hatfield style rather than the self-cleaning style I made in the past since I had some tight spots and a friend pointed out that these need less room to operate. The hose in the last photo is one I found at Woodcraft a while back. It maintains its shape and I've just tried it a little but I really like it.

Some final sealing and hood for my miter saw will finish this project up.

[Matt Meiser]

Some closeups of one of the new gates. I made them from scraps of prefinished ply. I made the gates themselves from thinner material than the surrounding spacers so they wouldn't get stuck. Didn't think about the slick nature of the PF material. They actually suck themselves closed. But if I cock them as shown when they are open they work just fine.

[Joe Angrisani]

Hi Matt...

I know this is an older thread, but I was hoping you could make a few comments about the G0441 now that it's been set up for awhile. I'm on the G0440-G0441 fence, considering all aspects including noise. My ears are open to anything you have to say, but specifically I have the following questions.

"What do you think about the noise level?" Grizzly's spec sheets show the G0441 being 7-10dB louder than the G0440. While the difference is probably moot when running a jointer, it certainly comes into play when using a downdraft table or lathe.

"How big is the "cyclone/fan" section itself?" Not the height, but the total distance from the wall as you have it mounted, as well as width on the wall (not counting the filter stuff). Grizzly's site talks about overall dimensions, but that may include the stand - I'm not sure.

"Did you ever put an ammeter on it?"

"What size duct(s) are you running?" Both main trunk coming into the cyclone, as well as 'where' and 'to-what' regarding step-downs on runs and drops to machines.

"What's your longest run, what's it's size, and what tool is that long run servicing?"

"Any regrets?"

[Matt Meiser]

Joe, I won't be able to get out to the shop to get accurate measurements until the weekend, but:

- Its fairly loud but the now-standard muffler helps a lot. I've got a dB meter app for my phone but I've never calibrated it so I've never taken measurements.
- I think its less than 24x24. You almost have to have some clearance on both sides to get it in place and assembled though.
- I did put an ammeter on it and running it was within specs but I don't remember the exact measurements. At first the startup current was high but after several tries that problem went away and its been fine since. It was a concern to me at first.
- All 6" duct dropping to 4 in some places. Longest is probably 40' or so and it sucks strongly.
- No regrets--great machine. I'm glad I stepped up to the 41 since I don't think I'd ever outgrow it.

[glenn bradley]

I'll chime in that I have run a G0440 for years and am very happy. If I could have fit a G0441, I would have one. If you can fit one, I would get one. The 2HP does well but the extra power would be welcome. I would of course, had to have run an 8" main to take real advantage of it but would have done so. My shop would have to have been 90% remodeled to make one fit so I went with the G0440. It has been a wonderful machine and I would buy it again (unless a 3HP unit would fit) :p

P.s. My heart goes out to those folks who are now buying plastic pipe at prices that are nearly double what I paid a few years ago. I'd still go ASTM-2729 even though the cost savings are not what they once were. The weight and ease of modification are worth it. I've changed my "perfect" system twice since it was installed.

[David Hostetler]

What ever happened with the blowing the breaker on startup problem?

[Matt Meiser]

Once I got it up and running, it stopped doing it. The theory was that something was tight or something was in the blower, though I didn't find anything pushed through to the filter. Grizzly's head of tech support and I agreed to monitor it and if I developed any further problems we'd revisit. I haven't to date and the amp draw while running wasn't out of range.

[Joe Angrisani]

I know from reading other posts that Matt has a lot going on in his world right now. Could someone with a Grizzly G0441 let me know how big the "cyclone/fan" section itself is? Not the height, but the total distance from the wall if you have it mounted to the wall as Matt does in the pictures in this thread. Also, I'd appreciate a measurement of the overall width of the green square impeller housing just below the motor. Grizzly's site offers lots of dimensions, but not those, and the Griz person I spoke with seemed to only be able to reference the same PDFs we can online.

[Matt Meiser]

Yeah, sorry--I've had a few things on my mind. I've only been in the shop to get tools, hook up a hose to the hydrant out there to flush chlorine from the well, or to get the tractor out to plow snow. Been crazy around here, that's for sure. The good news is that absolutely nothing broke, went bad, got damaged, etc all day Monday, which is a first in about 2 weeks.

Since its almost lunch time here, maybe I can make it out there then.

[Matt Meiser]

OK, including the 2x mounting boards you'd need to mount it, it sticks out from the wall 28". The blower is 24" wide, but you need minimum probably 61" width to install it as I have--and you need a smaller guy who can crawl up between to start bolts on the left side if you do because that space is tight on mine.

[Joe Angrisani]

Thanks Matt!

Heck, I'll give it three for John. Thanks Matt!!!

[Jeremy Standlee]

I helped another creeker wire a Long Ranger remote into his G0441 back around the new year. We just mounted it to the side of the Grizzly starter and wired it so that it would make the contactor.

I know this is an old thread, but was hoping you can provide some insight on how you made this work. I have the 220v long ranger and the g0441 and would like the long ranger to turn on the grizzly. Thanks!