How do I plane 8/4 boards to same thickness?

[Greg Becker]

I have several 8/4 cherry boards that I'm going to edge glue into an 84 x 42 dining table top. The boards run from 16" to 23" wide and were rough sawn when I brought them to my shop.

Since I wanted to see the grain in order to decide on matching them and figuring out where to make length cuts (and to decide if I should use them full width or get a better book match line up) I planed them by hand.

I have to say that I am hooked. Learning as much as I could about tuning planes (and of course purchasing a couple new Veritas models) I am totally sold on hand planing for the rest of the job.

I have achieved very good flatness on each side of each board (checking with a 72" straight edge) but now I am unclear how to proceed.

First, how do I determine that the two sides of each board are parallel?

Next, how do I get each board to the same thickness before I edge glue?

Thanks, and thanks for all the info on planing that I picked up from this forum (and for discovering that tuned planes are the gateway to a very pleasurable experience)

[Jeff Burks]

You can run a marking gauge along all 4 edges of the boards (reference off the planed face) and then flip the board and plane the opposite side down to the gauge line. Obviously you set the marking gauge for the desired thickness.

Thicknessing to a gauge line is covered to the nth degree in one of the chapters on the David Charlesworth DVD Hand Tool Techniques Part 2: Hand Planing (http://www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=28). Available from a lot of US vendors.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I am totally sold on hand planing for the rest of the job.

I have achieved very good flatness on each side of each board (checking with a 72" straight edge) but now I am unclear how to proceed.

First, how do I determine that the two sides of each board are parallel?

Next, how do I get each board to the same thickness before I edge glue?
You don't. I'm going to pick on you for a second because this a common question, but please don't take it as a personal response. It's really meant as a general response to a common question, I'm just using your situation as an example.

In this case, you are thinking like you are working with the machine. When you work on a panel like this by hand, you have to think differently than you would if doing it by machine. You need to plane all the boards to the same thickness when doing it by machine because you can't fit the whole panel through the planer. So the process is a result of the limitation of the machine.

However, when you do it by hand, there is no such limitation. Instead, plane only one face of each board flat, then plane the joint edges to fit. Then glue up your panel, aligning the planed faces. When the glue is dry, you plane the entire panel flat instead of individual boards. It's much faster and easier this way rather than trying to get every board perfect before the glue up.

Try it and I think you'll agree. Doing each board separately is an unnecessary tedious task that makes folks think hand tools are slow. However, when you think about the processes differently, hand tools can be just as fast as machines for a one off piece. But you can't think about the processes the same way.

[Tim Lawson]

Well said Bob! This is where hand tools are incredibly liberating.

Tim

[Paul Atkins]

I concur. Planing a table top by hand with a sharp plane is one of the best tasks in the shop. I say task as I'm usually sore for days after, but it's a 'good hurt'.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Bob said.

Just do as much as possible to have most or all of the grain going the same way when you glue them up.

I have also seen some tables where the underside is not finished planed. Only the sides that show matter.

jim

[Phil Thien]

How long would it take someone to hand-plane a table top (let's say 36-42" wide and maybe 72-80" long) after a glue up? Let's assume there is, on average, about 1/8" of material that has to come off. Also assume you're experienced at this and have done it a few times.

Just wondering as I start to think more about hand planes.

[Sean Hughto]

There are too many variables to give a very precise estimate, sarting with the wood itself and how hard it is and how variable the grain. An 1/8th inch would be a pretty huge difference to plane off too. You proposed a very large table. It would take a couple of hours of work at least to get both faces and all edges of that top flat and finished. The work would go quicker if you took care when gluing up and in prepping the boards.

[Derek Cohen]

As Bob notes, it is unnecessary to thickness all the boards. Only the outside shows!

From the outside this table looks OK ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay_html_m63b86ce8.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay_html_m4af3fca5.jpg

But inside the boards are different thicknesses, except for those at the circumference ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay_html_73b8d1c5.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay.html

Here is a thicknessing technique that may come in handy: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AThicknessingTechnique.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dan Karachio]

Watch this video. The guy looks like he is 17, but he is amazing. God he makes it look easy. Great teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0jUWJPweg&feature=channel

[Robert Rozaieski]

Phil,
I've never timed myself planing an entire glued up panel, so I can't say for sure. However, I did time myself planing one side of a 3' long, 12" wide board from rough sawn to flat, just to see for myself. It took me about 10 minutes to plane the first side of the board to flat and true. It then took me about 5 minutes to plane the adjacent edge straight and square to the flat face. At this point, the board was ready to be glued into a 2 board panel. I would estimate that the panel (about 24" wide by about 3' long) took me probably 20-30 minutes to plane after glue-up. This is using two planes (fore and try) set up to do the work effeciently (no fluffy shavings here).

A table top the size you mention would likely take a little longer since it's about twice the size. So maybe an hour or two.

The thing about hand planing is that it takes just about as long to plane a 12" wide board flat as it does to plane a 4" wide one. So as a hand tool user it is beneficial to use the widest boards you can find, because it saves you a lot of time. Hand tools are not capacity limited like a 6" jointer might be, so you can use the widest boards you can get without worrying about how you are going to fit them in the machines. I try to do all my wide panel glue ups in no more than 2-3 boards if I can.

FWIW, I think I'm somewhat fast at this, but I'm no where near as fast as they had to have been in the 18th & 19th centuries to finish pieces in the time they did. I read an article one time that noted the time it took to complete a specific secretary to be 10 weeks time (based on one person doing all the work; less time when tasks were divided among journeymen). The time was documented in the shop's log, so it wasn't an estimate. This is incredibly fast, so it is definitely possible to do, but one needs to think about processes differently and think about the priorities for finishing planing each piece. Not all parts would have been six squared. Many faces would have been left rough planed, or not planed at all, if the part didn't necessitate planing. I'm not sure how a customer would feel about this today, unless the piece was an early reproduction. It wasn't important then.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Since I wanted to see the grain in order to decide on matching them and figuring out where to make length cuts (and to decide if I should use them full width or get a better book match line up) I planed them by hand. I have to say that I am hooked.

Well, there's no cure for that. :) I'd say your hooked. Think of it as an infectious disease.


I have achieved very good flatness on each side of each board (checking with a 72" straight edge) but now I am unclear how to proceed. First, how do I determine that the two sides of each board are parallel?


When joining panels, I don't spend much time worrying if the individual boards have parallel sides. As long as one edge matches the next, who cares? I usually use a gauge of some sort to layout a rip line for the second edge but after that, I just plane it to fit with little care as to how parallel it is with the reference edge.

[Phil Thien]

Thanks for the estimates, guys.

I was kinda hoping you were gonna tell me days and days.

One more reason to avoid hand planes shot down. :o

[Dave Cav]

How long would it take someone to hand-plane a table top (let's say 36-42" wide and maybe 72-80" long) after a glue up? Let's assume there is, on average, about 1/8" of material that has to come off. Also assume you're experienced at this and have done it a few times.

Just wondering as I start to think more about hand planes.

My work bench top is about 24" x 72". My thickness planer is only 15". I glued it up in two sections each 12" wide (3 1/2" thick face glued ash) and thickness planed them to match. Then I glued the halves together, and when I was finished there was the inevitable (and expected) offset. I used a jointer and smoother to do the final planing, going across and diagonal first, then finishing with the grain. I believe it took around an hour.

[Thomas Nye]

Watch this video. The guy looks like he is 17, but he is amazing. God he makes it look easy. Great teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0jUWJPweg&feature=channel

Awsome Video, Thanks for Sharing. That young man is Very Good. Truely a Master Craftsman

[Greg Becker]

In this case, you are thinking like you are working with the machine. When you work on a panel like this by hand, you have to think differently than you would if doing it by machine. You need to plane all the boards to the same thickness when doing it by machine because you can't fit the whole panel through the planer. So the process is a result of the limitation of the machine.

However, when you do it by hand, there is no such limitation. Instead, plane only one face of each board flat, then plane the joint edges to fit. Then glue up your panel, aligning the planed faces. When the glue is dry, you plane the entire panel flat instead of individual boards. It's much faster and easier this way rather than trying to get every board perfect before the glue up.

Try it and I think you'll agree. Doing each board separately is an unnecessary tedious task that makes folks think hand tools are slow. However, when you think about the processes differently, hand tools can be just as fast as machines for a one off piece. But you can't think about the processes the same way.

Excellent explanation -- thank you. I particularly appreciate the juxtaposed thinking with machine based work.

I am really appreciating the tactile experience of working with the planes and the wood. Since this is a piece of furniture that will be joining my family it is basically a unique process where quality and pleasure trump efficiency and cost effectiveness. I am already convinced that the actual "quality" of the surface that can be achieved by a good hand can equal or perhaps even exceed that which results from power machinery.

I'm glad that I have flattened both sides of my lumber as it will allow me to better pick the the optimal visual combination and order of grain, but I will not worry about getting them to the same thickness until after glue up.

[Greg Becker]

Watch this video. The guy looks like he is 17, but he is amazing. God he makes it look easy. Great teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0jUWJPweg&feature=channel
Yes, amazing video in terms of his craftsmanship, his ability to teach, and in the technical production of the video itself.

Thanks for sharing this link, and, thanks to everyone for all the teaching. This really is a great forum.

[Bruce Haugen]

and that is: glue-ups are frequently not perfect and the resulting surface may not be as free from cupping as you wanted. Those buggers can move a lot after gluing and you will need the extra thickness to achieve the final dimension that you want.

[Steve Dallas]

I have several 8/4 cherry boards that I'm going to edge glue into an 84 x 42 dining table top. The boards run from 16" to 23" wide and were rough sawn when I brought them to my shop.

Since I wanted to see the grain in order to decide on matching them and figuring out where to make length cuts (and to decide if I should use them full width or get a better book match line up) I planed them by hand.

I have to say that I am hooked. Learning as much as I could about tuning planes (and of course purchasing a couple new Veritas models) I am totally sold on hand planing for the rest of the job.

I have achieved very good flatness on each side of each board (checking with a 72" straight edge) but now I am unclear how to proceed.

First, how do I determine that the two sides of each board are parallel?

Next, how do I get each board to the same thickness before I edge glue?

Thanks, and thanks for all the info on planing that I picked up from this forum (and for discovering that tuned planes are the gateway to a very pleasurable experience)

Bob is right. In hand tool woodworking panels are glued up over thickness and brought to finished thickness and the four-square state just as if you transported yourself back in time when 24" wide single boards were still available.

[Dan Karachio]

Awsome Video, Thanks for Sharing. That young man is Very Good. Truely a Master Craftsman

Isn't it great? The use of time lapse is genius. So many times these kinds of videos have a guy standing there with the plane or other tool in hand and every time he is about to do something, about 20 times at least, he stops and has more to say. Drives me absolutely nuts. His videos on scratch stock are also very good.

[Mark Stutz]

You don't. I'm going to pick on you for a second because this a common question, but please don't take it as a personal response. It's really meant as a general response to a common question, I'm just using your situation as an example.

In this case, you are thinking like you are working with the machine. When you work on a panel like this by hand, you have to think differently than you would if doing it by machine. You need to plane all the boards to the same thickness when doing it by machine because you can't fit the whole panel through the planer. So the process is a result of the limitation of the machine.

However, when you do it by hand, there is no such limitation. Instead, plane only one face of each board flat, then plane the joint edges to fit. Then glue up your panel, aligning the planed faces. When the glue is dry, you plane the entire panel flat instead of individual boards. It's much faster and easier this way rather than trying to get every board perfect before the glue up.

Try it and I think you'll agree. Doing each board separately is an unnecessary tedious task that makes folks think hand tools are slow. However, when you think about the processes differently, hand tools can be just as fast as machines for a one off piece. But you can't think about the processes the same way.

In retrospect this seems so intuitive, but like many others, my powered background prevailed, and I carefully thicknessed and 4 squared each board before glue up. Of course the glue up wasn't perfect and had to reflatten the top, losing another 1/16 thickness in the process.:mad:

All isn't a total waste though, because I learned to four square a board and got pretty good at it!:D

Mark