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Larry Edgerton
05-22-2010, 6:41 AM
Anyone else here gone through this EPA training program?

I just finished it yesterday, and I would like to hear opinions from those who went through it.

Jason Roehl
05-22-2010, 8:25 AM
I got a similar certification in 2004 so that I could work on a project that involved HUD funding. From what I understand, it's essentially the same course, though some of the thresholds have changed (how many s.f. of lead paint can be disturbed without having to employ Lead-Safe Work Practices, as it was known when I took it). My certification no longer applies, though I may be eligible to take the 4-hour refresher course instead of the full 8-hour class.

I'm going to try to not go political on this, because this topic can quickly go there.

I think this certification could have been done in the private sector. By applying it across the board, I think there will be some far-reaching, unintended (or perhaps not!) consequences. Much of the low-income housing in this country is pre-1978. What that means is that whether they are owner-occupied or rental units, the RRP (Renovation, Repair and Painting) rule will significantly increase the maintenance costs, so maintenance and repair will be more likely to lapse, leading to more urban blight.

There's more--there is no question that lead can be harmful, but there's been no demonstration of how much lead is actually ingested and makes its way into the bloodstream. Personally, I taught my kids that food and drink goes in the mouth, not toys, furniture, dirt and anything else they might randomly pick up. And, what about the consequences of all that extra plastic that will be used in the application of the RRP--what sort of environmental effect will that have? It all ends up in a landfill...

Needless to say, I'm not a fan.

Brian Cover
05-22-2010, 8:13 PM
My instructor was the lady from U of N, Las Vegas. She really is a whacko when it comes to federal interference in contracting. While I agree that excessive amounts of lead are unhealthy, these people are totally off the scale of extremists. 40 ppm is a ridiculous standard, especially in a house. She also was bragging about more legislation that they are pushing through Congress that will make contracting more expensive for everyone.

Where in the Constitution does it state the Federal government is responsible for providing a house to you if you can not afford one? Where does it state the government should repair and renovate your home for you? It is aggravating to see these contracts and this work being performed on homes occupied by illegals and their large extended families. These people make no effort to fix the problems themselves. They just line up or al the work to be performed for them for free paid by the taxpaying Americans. Most of the recipients of these services do not even speak english.

A side note, but related to the topic, the upcoming legislation being pushed by BPI (Building Performance Institute) is going to cost homeowners a lot of money and contrary to their claims of adding jobs, will in fact cause many contractors to go out of business. More legislation and mandatory, expensive, high efficiency upgrades are not the way to improve the economy.

Jim Becker
05-23-2010, 10:05 AM
The GC who did our addition recently attended it with his crew. It was good to get all the specifics required to meet the regulations since they primarily do renovation and addition work on older homes, but as he put it, "it was a long day". What really got his goat was that all that care is taken during the removal, but all the resulting debris still ends up in the regular land fill.

Don Bergren
05-23-2010, 3:46 PM
What really got his goat was that all that care is taken during the removal, but all the resulting debris still ends up in the regular land fill.

This is what drove a friend of mine insane. She took the course and couldn't believe that there are no rules for disposal. In fact, what is probably the largest landfill operator in this state was there asking for answers to the disposal question and was told that there were none. So into the regular trash stream it goes.

My friend is a one woman operator and has decided that she will no longer do whole house exterior house painting jobs because of the new rules. She says that she sees a nightmare in the form of "busy neighbor type" folks claiming the job site isn't properly prepared and managed. For this summer she has already refused work in an upscale community due to that. While sticking to the new rules, she will now do interior work only.

Kevin Arceneaux
05-24-2010, 1:39 AM
Lead was always a odd issue as far a disposal goes. If it comes from a house, it is generally not regulated, but other times, it is based on the lead standard under the Haz Waste rules.

Long days? Try taking the asbestos or Hazwopper refresher every year. It gets to be very tedious and an exercise in staying awake.

Larry Edgerton
05-27-2010, 7:00 AM
I will be shying away from what has come to be the brunt of my business, that being restoring homes over a century old.

The inside rules are not really a big deal, and not so far off of what we already did to isolate dust. The inside is a controled enviroment so it is easy to do as they ask.

The outside on the other hand will be a problem. On the house I am completing now It would be almost impossible. To do all they ask I would be in violation of OSHA safety rules. For example on the house I am on, I would have to have plastic 25' out from the house foundation. Now as a matter of practicality we in the field all know that plastic rips easily, especially with ladders/scaffold but the kicker is that we have snow here for 5 months of the year.
Add snow to plastic and what do you have? A sled!

Each example that they gave was just a box, but the houses that I work on are not boxes, they are multi level homes with landscaping, shrubs, porches, etc. etc. Not as simple as they make it sound. This is a case of someone making rules that has absolutely no experiance in the business, and no common sense. Filter fabric for example would be more workable, and provide some traction. On longer jobs the plastic will kill whatever vegitation that is under it, and homeowners will expect who to pay this cost?

Here is the kicker for me. If there are any lead paint chips outside, you fail and are fined. If there were not paint chips, they would not have called me, so I am automatically failed. To do the job I must take a chance that they will not show up, or price in soil removal to take care of the paint already on the ground when I arrived on the site.

The government in their infinite wisdom has taken the hardest hit segment of the failing economy, and given it a whack while it is down.

There is another bill gone through the house and in the senate that makes every contractor that employs more than 5 employees provide health insurance. Every other business in the country it is 50 employees, but contractors have been singled out at 5. No problem for me in this economy, I can't buy a job in my home area at this time, but an unfair law just the same. Hit'em while they are down.........

At the current time with a site rate of $30 an hour, the most I can pay an employee and break even is $16.34 an hour on payroll. If they pass this insurance law, cost will be higher than what I can pay, and what kind of help will I get for say twelve dollars an hour? I currently pay $25 hr on a subcontract basis, but once, and if, the pool of unemployed builders dry up this will be impossible. I currently have a crew that are all licenced builders.

Don't complain too loud about the lack of disposal! Do you have any idea what that would add to the cost? How many illegal dumping sites that would create? Mums the word....

The opt out clause works on my current project, but will be eliminated in July, so we will see where this all goes. I think I am done restoring historical homes.

Frusterating times......

Time to take this country back.