Any advice on acquiring decent hand tools on a budget?

[Bob Stroupe]

So, I've been watching craig's list for months without any luck, and I just spent all day roaming through every damned organized junk pile in the next town over which dubs itself the antique capital of my state. However, I didn't come out empty handed. No, I came out screwed. I thought I had myself the only stanley the town had to offer. A #4 for $20 and there isn't even that much rust on it. However under closer scrutiny back here at home it has become obvious I bought a stanley lever cap and some knock off plane.
I've also recently bought a spokeshave from india. Man, this thing is so ratty it's going to take a lot of work just to get a half assed tool out of it.
As much as I would like to I just can't afford to outfit myself with lee valley or lie nielsen, I also can't afford to keep wasting money on junk.
I'm not sure I want to make all my own tools...
What else can I do?

[Dale Sautter]

I'm not sure I want to make all my own tools...
What else can I do?

Are you sure... warning though, it can be a lot of fun, and there is alot of satisfaction out of using a tool that you crafted... warts and all. I do understand that it's not for everyone, that is making tools, but are you sure?

What else can I do? - Patience, works every time it's tried. Problem is the timeliness of it all... :)

[Joel Goodman]

I would recommend either Sandy Moss, Brass City or Patrick Leach for second hand tools. They are all very well thought of dealers who are fair and will not sell you junk. I myself like older planes (pre WW2). And don't forget sharpening equipment !

[Sean Hughto]

Where are you? Your options may vary somewhat depending upon where you are, and Creekers might be able to point you to specifics, if they knew where you were. Antiques tools are great if you are on a budget as user quality stuff can be had very reasonably. You need to educate yourslef though about what is what and what is good. You can pay a little more and go to an old tool dealer like those listed by Joel above - you're paying for their expertise in picking out good stuff. If you have the knowledge yourself - or friends who do (like maybe Creekers ;-) there's plenty of good deals on basic but good quality hand tools on eBay.

[Brian Kent]

Check out mujingfang planes and contour planes (think spokeshave) from Lee Valley and Japan Woodworker. They are the only new bargain that are amazingly great. All have been favorites except the rosewood Rabbet plane. That one doesn't work well.

[David Weaver]

So, I've been watching craig's list for months without any luck, and I just spent all day roaming through every damned organized junk pile in the next town over which dubs itself the antique capital of my state. However, I didn't come out empty handed. No, I came out screwed. I thought I had myself the only stanley the town had to offer. A #4 for $20 and there isn't even that much rust on it. However under closer scrutiny back here at home it has become obvious I bought a stanley lever cap and some knock off plane.
I've also recently bought a spokeshave from india. Man, this thing is so ratty it's going to take a lot of work just to get a half assed tool out of it.
As much as I would like to I just can't afford to outfit myself with lee valley or lie nielsen, I also can't afford to keep wasting money on junk.
I'm not sure I want to make all my own tools...
What else can I do?

Do you have a #5 yet? If you don't, let me know. I have an extra one - a millers falls, that you can have for the cost of shipping - and I'll make sure it's set up right.

You can start off using it as a smoother, and once you get a couple of smoothers, you can change it over to a jack setup.

[Dave Beauchesne]

Do you have a #5 yet? If you don't, let me know. I have an extra one - a millers falls, that you can have for the cost of shipping - and I'll make sure it's set up right.

You can start off using it as a smoother, and once you get a couple of smoothers, you can change it over to a jack setup.

Bob:

Now there is a deal - Good on you David for the offer to a fellow Creeker!

Bob: Just be patient - Being impulsive in this gig will result in only result in you throwing good money after bad - if you factor that into the end price of a tool that ' works ' , sometimes you get to premium tool prices or higher. That being said, buying premium will only save you heartache and time - you will get instant gratification from a premium tool.

I have several LV and LN cutting tools, and have recently fettled a few e-bay acquisitions into superb users; I don't regret either method, but the LV and LNs take much less time.

JMHO

Dave Beauchesne

Dave Beauchesne

[Jim Koepke]

Bob,

Welcome to the world of hunting for rust.

At the top of the Neanderthal Haven conference is a 'Sticky' called Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs. There is a lot of information about some of the vendors listed and what to look for when searching planes and other tools in the wild. There are also a few links to help with what to do with them once you have them.

Some photos of what you have may help to identify what you have. It may just need some TLC.

jim

[scott spencer]

Bob - Buying used can offer the best values, but there are some pitfalls to avoid. Here's some info I put together about buying older hand planes on a budget (http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/14523#comments).

[mike holden]

Bob,
Given your location, look into the SE Michigan Wood Workers group.
They meet just SE of Ann Arbor and several members are also members of the Mid West Tool Collectors Association and know where to find and how to recognize good old tools.
Google either and get involved.
A bit further away is the Michigan Woodworkers Guild. Meetings in Royal Oak and Novi.
There are good used tools to be found in Michigan/Ohio, but you need to know where to look.
Mike

[Paul Incognito]

At the risk of sounding like a classified, I have a Dunlap #3 size plane and a Bailey #6 as well as a hand saw or two that could use a good home. I got a bunch of tools at an estate sale a couple weeks ago and have duplicates. PM me if interested.
PI

[Tom Wiarda]

Sorry you are having so much trouble finding tools. I have had good luck recently on Craigslist and at garage sales here in West Michigan. I have sold off the duplicates and the ones I do not want and made enough to pay for the keepers. To help a fellow Michigander I have a small block plane I can send you if you want it. PM me. Thanks, Tom

[Bob Stroupe]

It seems yesterday I was the victim of someone swapping lever caps and today I'm reaping the benefits! Heading across the county to other antique places as well as a few pawn and consignment shops I found a stanley #5 in an antique place. It's in better shape than almost anything else I've looked at. Except somebody did a little reshaping on the tote which isn't uncomfortable, and it had some kind of funky replacement lever cap. It only cost me $9. :D
Thanks for all the responses and the offers! I was pretty frustrated last night and looking to blow off some steam and get some advice in the process. This is a great place.
Thanks
Bob

[Steve Branam]

What I've found is you have to be prepared to take some lumps when buying used tools. But mixed in with the lumps will be some good finds. My wife recently bought me a box of old wooden planes at an auction for $10. Out of the 5, 2 were usable. The others may yield some usable bodies or irons in addition to the scrap.

Of course, that was extra cheap, so anything useful was a bargain. But I also get plenty of single tools in the $20-40 range.

In addition to complete tools, I'm starting to build up a stock of usable parts. So when I do end up with a dog, there's a better chance I can turn it into something useful. It's worthwhile to pick up a few duplicates if you find them cheap.

And that budget? By the time you have 20 planes on your shelves you'll realize you lost control somewhere along the way! :rolleyes:

The challenge of the hunt and getting it to work will suck you in.

[john brenton]

there are certain tools that you are almost never going to find at that "almost stolen" price (ie, low angle block planes, anything Stanley SW, Lie Nielson etc) but for the most part you can get a kick ace deal on anything else. That, and if you ever run into a guy selling tools at a flea market ask him if he has more and if you can get his number.

Most of my tools come from a seller at a flea market that had a good selection there...but in his house? Holy God it is a treasure trove. The guy has two walls of planes of every size and every other tool you can imagine.

That, and get enough tools to make your tools. Build your tool collection around a particular project, not just tools you would like to have (which is all of them I'm sure!).

[David Keller NC]

I also can't afford to keep wasting money on junk.
I'm not sure I want to make all my own tools...
What else can I do?

Someone just posted a fairly decent #7 on the SMC classifieds. The post was entered at 2:28 p,m., and I estimate you're about 20 minutes to decide before it goes to someone else.

The price is right - good working jointers with a good Hock blade don't show up too often for $110

[Bob Easton]

I’m sure there are trustworthy vintage tool dealers on Ebay, but I haven’t found time to sort them out of the world’s largest yard sale. I have had good success on EBay by (1) being patient, (2) knowing enough about what I want to be able to make decisions based on photos, (3) buying only from those with return policies, (4) buying from sellers who specialize in tools. Don't expect a good plane from the guy selling Barbie dolls and baseball cards.

Likewise, I haven’t found all of the trustworthy dealers on the internet. However, I do trust and have done business with each of these folks and can recommend all of them with NO reservations: Jon Zimmer (http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/tools/pla_list.htm), Patrick Leach (http://www.supertool.com/), Sandy Moss (http://www.sydnassloot.com/TOOLS.HTM), Walt Q (http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html), and Bob Kaune (http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stanpl.htm). They are all very good at finding the good stuff, representing the merchandise fairly, and transacting easily. You won't find a $9 bargain with these guys. You'll be paying for their expertise. I think they're worth it.

[peter leyden]

I don't know how popular garage sales are where you live, but I have amassed a fairly good sized collection of hand tools that I bought at garage sales.I have found planes ,from #3's to an #8 bedrock and all the sizes in between,never paying more than $4 for the majority and $10 for a Stanley #4 1/2 and $6 for that Bedrock. I have also acquired numerous braces, sets of bits, spokeshaves etc. for very little.It requires a few hours on Saturdays during the garage sale season and time spent reading up on old tools.
(I did pay $20 once from an antique shop for a plane I just had to have.)
Check all your local papers and Craigslist for garage sale listings every week
Try to stay away from dealers unless you strike out on garage sales,or if you are lucky enough to find a dealer with reasonably priced stuff.

Don't let light rust deter you - a wire wheel will do wonders to turn a tool you don't want to touch into a tool that proudly displays its patina.
Pete Leyden

[Dave Cav]

Likewise, I haven’t found all of the trustworthy dealers on the internet. However, I do trust and have done business with each of these folks and can recommend all of them with NO reservations: Jon Zimmer (http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/tools/pla_list.htm), Patrick Leach (http://www.supertool.com/), Sandy Moss (http://www.sydnassloot.com/TOOLS.HTM), Walt Q (http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html), and Bob Kaune (http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stanpl.htm). They are all very good at finding the good stuff, representing the merchandise fairly, and transacting easily. You won't find a $9 bargain with these guys. You'll be paying for their expertise. I think they're worth it.

I'd also like to put in a plug for Tom Bruce (http://www.workingtools.biz/). His business temporarily on hold, but when he gets going again he will be another good resource to check with. I've bought a number of planes from him (and Pat) and they are always exactly as advertised.

[Christian Castillo]

Be diligent about checking E-bay and craigslist twice a day, at noon and at night. If you snooze, you lose, typically their aren't many deals to be had on e-bay, none the less, that doesn't mean they don't show up, I just purchased 6 swedish chisels, look like EA Berg, for 20 dollars with buy it now. On the other hand, I missed a 3 marples chisel and an 80 dollar japanese chisel for 20 dollars on craigslist, and a 20 dollar starrett hardened head 12" combination square with protractor and center finder head for 20 dollars by mere hours.

If you are vigilant like a hawk, you will find the deals. Check message board classifieds that relate to what you are looking for. For example, if you are in need of sharpening gear, open your world beyond woodworkers and realize that Knife enthusiasts, straight razor users and cooking aficionados are all obsessed with their sharpening set ups. Not bashing on those groups, they seem to follow fads regarding sharpening and are very open to trying new exotic gear, so they're constantly swapping their sharpening set ups and you will most likely find exotic superior sharpening stones from Europe and Japan, the kinds that don't usually show up in woodworking message boards. I suggest you create a folder full of bookmarks of classified sections of various forums and check em daily as well.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on the always asking.

I found a few good tools sources that way. Usually asking at antique shops helps. Business people all know each other and they know the specialties of the other people in similar businesses. I have gone to businesses with no tools or very few tools. I always mention that I am looking for tools and quite often I am given a lead on another antique shop that has tools.

Another one when I was looking at tools the woman called her partner in who had his house stacked to the rafters with planes of all kinds. He is a collector, but he supports his collecting by selling. That is where I got a great deal on a #8 that had a bit of mixing of parts. Bought a few other planes from him also.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

Don't expect a good plane from the guy selling Barbie dolls and baseball cards.

Sometimes, that is where you will find the deals. They may list the item incorrectly or if they are used to taking pictures of flat baseball cards the 3D plane will be photographed poorly.

If you find the item early in the listing there should be time to get them to email a few more pictures. They may not be able to answer questions because they do not know a lateral lever from a clutch pedal. Just do not bid high, bid as if it were for parts only. I have gotten a few real good planes off of ebay that way. I have also seen planes that the seller did not know were broken that I was able to get cheap for the parts. Good tote, knob, blade, lever cap and frog. No one else bid on the junk. I think a few more people have been made wise to that trick.

jim

[Zach England]

My best deals on planes and other hand tools have come from posting WTB on this forum. In my experience, there is also less risk involved than there is on ebay. People here know how to describe a tool and I have never accoutered anyone who was less than impeccably honest--more than I can say for ebay.

[Larry James]

Buying on bay can be risky as mentioned, the descriptions are often bizarre and obviously not written by a woodworker. Of the 3 internet plane purchases I have made 2 were from Sandy Moss and 1 from ebay. If you want safe go to one of the sellers like Sandy.

However, you can find some good deals on ebay. This morning, I received my first plane purchased from ebay, a type 20 #6. I was looking for a #6 sweetheart. The plane was described as "minty" and "new never used" - is that a red flag or what? I decided to bid up to $40 and then violated the never go over the limit you set before bidding rule. Much to my surprise, I won at $43.85 + $10.92 shipping.

The plane is as advertised. It appears to have never been used.

Larry

[Jim Koepke]

However, you can find some good deals on ebay. This morning, I received my first plane purchased from ebay, a type 20 #6. I was looking for a #6 sweetheart. The plane was described as "minty" and "new never used" - is that a red flag or what?

Imagine the shock of finding an honest seller on ebay. :eek:

There are actually quite a few of them. Some actually know what "minty" and "new never used" means.

jim

[David Keller NC]

Imagine the shock of finding an honest seller on ebay. :eek:

There are actually quite a few of them. Some actually know what "minty" and "new never used" means.

jim

Except that "minty" is only an appropriate description for certain types of chewing gum, not hand tools. ;)

I actually used that phrase in a few e-bay sales I made a year or so ago because a particularly well-known tool dealer used it in just about all his advertisements. And unfortunately, the tools were really far from "fine", "minty", "all original" or anything else. I guess "average example of a desirable form" doesn't sell too well.:D

[David Weaver]

I'd kind of like to know who the seller is because I buy a lot of tools on peebay.

There is one particular seller attempting to double the going rate for very average tools, and a few copycats out there doing the same. The listing structure must've changed on ebay, because I've noticed more than just tools out there on permanent listings at double what the going rate is for them, waiting for a sucker buyer who comes across the item without doing a search of comparables.

I've had OK luck on ebay. In the end, it probably hasn't been any cheaper than buying from anyone else, except for a couple of years ago I got a whole rash of millers falls 4s and 5s, with red frogs and the "good" lever cap for $10 each, and got an MF 18 in great mechanical shape for $23. I stepped over the line and popped off about those deals on another forum and then all of the sudden there were none to be had for a while, and they started showing up in the classifieds on these forums for the same price as a sweetheart bailey :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'd like to know who the seller is. Might be someone I have zero chance to buy from if they already list at high prices, anyway.

Worst luck I had on ebay was getting backsaws a couple of years ago. I probably got 10 of them, all were advertised as straight, maybe 2 or 3 were, and some of them were kinked or obviously hammered. None of the ones that I had that weren't straight could be fixed by adjusting the spine, and three or four of them had significant pitting that didn't show in the auction and wasn't disclosed.

Around here, I don't see many good bailey planes for a reasonable price, I do see a lot of woodies and moulding planes, though. But i have had a very difficult time finding backsaws, I have seen probably 10 in 3 or 4 years, and they have all been junk, and most rusted up and marked "$40 firm" or something of that sort in antique shops.

[David Keller NC]

And a bit more editorializing just for fun. :D

"Stunning" is a highly appropriate term for tasers, or perhaps a beautiful woman. Definitely not applicable to old and crusty WW tools from someone's basement.

"Exquisite" - a great description for a Mozart Sonnata. Not too good for a beat-up post-war Norris with a replaced blade.

"Drop Dead Gorgeous" - also applied to women, sometimes Ferraris, not tools, not even the products of Karl Holtey and Bill Carter.

"Sensastional" - excellent term for several New York and London based tabloid newspapers. Poorly applied to Ultimatum braces.

And the best for last ....

"The Finest XXXXX on Earth!" - would of course apply to the interior decor at Buckingham Palace, the summer palace of Louis XIV, and the Hermitage in Russia. Not appropriate for any tool at any time, except perhaps the silver-mounted Sandusky plow from the 1876 Philadelphia Exposition (and there's only one of those).

Submitted for your amusement - and a sarcastic warning for newb tool buyers! :)

[Ryan Stokes]

Also beware of a couple sellers trying to pawn off Harbor Freight tools as quality merchandise. Not that HF has no use, but there is one particular seller that I've seen trying to pass off their miniature bullnose, rabbet planes for ~$8 a pop when the whole set can be had for that price.