Building a deck with teak ok?

[dirk martin]

I've got treated lumber on my deck at this time, that was there since I bought the place. I've got a bunch of 5/4 teak that I got at a good price. I'm considering removing the treated lumber, and replacing it with the teak. Good call, or not?

[scott vroom]

Dirk, 5/4 is pretty thin for decking unless the joists are very close together. What did you pay for the teak and how much do you have? I pay $30 bd/ft in my area.....that's pretty expensive for decking! We just finished a custom bath remodel for a customer who paid us to build 2 vanities and 2 medicine cabinets from teak....it's a stunning look. If it were me I'd hold on to the teak for a furniture project rather than use it for folks to walk on ;)

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Glen Butler]

5/4 would be plenty strong for 16" joist spacing, pushing it for 24" but still doable. You certainly wouldn't have to replace your deck ever again (as long as the joists are equally sound) but it is rather pricey wood for a deck. I would say there are better projects suited for the teak.

[Tom Rick]

At what I have to pay for teak I wouldn't use it on a deck- want to sell off the lot?

[John Mark Lane]

I would normally have though a post like this was a joke. I bet if you go over to the Boatbuilding forum and post the question, you'll cause several heart attacks. What a waste of teak. Sorry, but to me that's like using black walnut to make studs. Serious overkill and the material could be put to much better use.

Last deck I built I used that synthetic decking they sell at the Borg. Worked quite well.


Edit: the teak will grey quickly and will not (at least initially) take stain well. But it will outlast the fasteners you use to attach it (unless you use stainless steel screws).

[David Thompson 27577]

I'm confident that if you used that teak for a deck, that you would not like the result even a little bit.

Tell ya what -- to avoid such problems, I think you should just ship the stuff to me.


SNORK

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Teak would be absolutely the best wood to make a deck with. It's non slip, bugs don't like it very much, rot resistant. They made decks of ships with it for that reason. Are there better uses? YES. If you do make a deck with it, don't deep fry a turkey on it. An amazing amount of decks are burned down from deep frying turkey fires. THAT would be a tragic loss.

Out on a limb here....

[Steve Schoene]

Better yet, sell the teak, use Ipe for the deck, and buy a NICE grill with the difference.

[Howard Acheson]

As another boating guy who has been involved with a shop that made lots of teak items for high end custom yacht builders, I agree with Steve. While teak would make an outstanding and long lasting deck, so would a number of other woods. The other woods would be perfectly fine and more practical. Ipe is an excellent choice. The Atlantic City boardwalk was made of it over 70 years ago and still is going strong.

Use the teak for another project where it will be shown off to better advantage.

By the way, teak was used for WWII aircraft landing decks and for the decks on battleships.

[Brendan Plavis]

As another boating guy who has been involved with a shop that made lots of teak items for high end custom yacht builders, I agree with Steve. While teak would make an outstanding and long lasting deck, so would a number of other woods. The other woods would be perfectly fine and more practical. Ipe is an excellent choice. The Atlantic City boardwalk was made of it over 70 years ago and still is going strong.

Use the teak for another project where it will be shown off to better advantage.

By the way, teak was used for WWII aircraft landing decks and for the decks on battleships.

Hehe... just dont drop any bombs on it..... it splinters easy..... Also I recommend not cooking anything on it.... the 10 ton neighbor might come over... (what I am trying to say here is that it breaks appart if heavy loads are dropped on it...)

I recommend that you look at a span chart to determine the maximum allowable span. If you can find me the modulus of elasticity for the wood, ill try to tell you the span(I have a span chart from my CAD course) Assuming that you can get it in a number such as (1.2)(a.b) and that it is under 2.2(thats all my chart goes up to)(I dont have that info, since building a house from teak would be like building one from Titanium.. expensive...) I can tell you though that I recommend using 12inch joist spacing, since, if I read that right, it is a thin wood... If it was done with 24inch spacing, I wouldnt recommend it, since you are running the probability of it bending out of proportion under stress.

-Brendan

[Jim Terrill]

Hehe... just dont drop any bombs on it..... it splinters easy..... Also I recommend not cooking anything on it.... the 10 ton neighbor might come over... (what I am trying to say here is that it breaks appart if heavy loads are dropped on it...)

I recommend that you look at a span chart to determine the maximum allowable span. If you can find me the modulus of elasticity for the wood, ill try to tell you the span(I have a span chart from my CAD course) Assuming that you can get it in a number such as (1.2)(a.b) and that it is under 2.2(thats all my chart goes up to)(I dont have that info, since building a house from teak would be like building one from Titanium.. expensive...) I can tell you though that I recommend using 12inch joist spacing, since, if I read that right, it is a thin wood... If it was done with 24inch spacing, I wouldnt recommend it, since you are running the probability of it bending out of proportion under stress.

-Brendan

Yet again, could you refrain from offering comments on things when you have no clue what they mean? 5/4 AKA 1 1/4" rough sawn is not thin. Most decking these days is 1" finished and is 16" OC. The normal spacing in construction is 16", if you look at a tape there is a reason why every 16" the number is red or there is a special mark. I think post people are able to tell when you are spewing on things you don't understand, but I fear that someone may actually try to follow it. As far as splintering, it has been used in shipbuilding for hundreds of years, the proper method for finishing it is pretty well known by now and it won't splinter if a normal human being walks across it.

[Brendan Plavis]

Hence why I stated not to subject it to excessive weight impacts. The flaw was found in ship building during the second world war. 1000lb bombs dropped(even by handling crews) could crash through the deck..... I know of people who have their tools on the deck, that weight could very well go through if subjected to an impact...

*Deleted info, I just realized the figures I gave you were for joist legnths...... opps...*

Since all three of those are common, it is important to understand the spacing, since that determines the minimum thickness of the piece of lumber, before subject to failure.

If you would like, I would be happy to scan and post a copy of my charts... as soon as I find one that contains teak... since I doubt fir will do you much good...

[Tom Rick]

Hence why I stated not to subject it to excessive weight impacts. The flaw was found in ship building during the second world war. 1000lb bombs dropped(even by handling crews) could crash through the deck..... I know of people who have their tools on the deck, that weight could very well go through if subjected to an impact...

Actually the spacings of 12", 16", as well as 24" are all common spacings for joists. I asked for the modulus of elasticity, because in engineering, the elasticity makes a huge difference. For example Spruce, has a modulus of elasticity of 1.2. Using that figue, assuming that the joist is a 2x10, it can span 16'-5" on a 12" joist spacing, but can only span 14'-11" on a 16" spacing, and 13'-0" on a 24" Spacing.



Teak planks on the decks of WWII era ships are lain on the steel deck plating.

Tool boxes, bombs or anything else dropped while miss-handling did not "crash through the deck".

No one is talking about using the teak for joists- just the decking.


On a more serious note....:eek:

Do keep in mind that teak left bare will go to gray quickly and is somewhat soft on the surface after the sun gets at it. If you are in the east the deck will quickly pick up green algae and black mold in the soft pith. Teak is a great wood but don't expect it to stand up as well as Ipe. Trust me- I replace worn out teak on boats for a living. If you use the teak there are great products for yachts which will give good service for protection and keeping the color- still seems a bit of a shame to use it for a deck though. I am paying $22 bf for 4/4 and $26 bf for 6/4 and above.

[Brendan Plavis]

Teak planks on the decks of WWII era ships are lain on the steel deck plating.

Tool boxes, bombs or anything else dropped while miss-handling did not "crash through the deck".

No one is talking about using the teak for joists- just the decking.


On a more serious note....:eek:

Do keep in mind that teak left bare will go to gray quickly and is somewhat soft on the surface after the sun gets at it. If you are in the east the deck will quickly pick up green algae and black mold in the soft pith. Teak is a great wood but don't expect it to stand up as well as Ipe. Trust me- I replace worn out teak on boats for a living. If you use the teak there are great products for yachts which will give good service for protection and keeping the color- still seems a bit of a shame to use it for a deck though. I am paying $22 bf for 4/4 and $26 bf for 6/4 and above.

Not at the beginning of the war, after about 1942 or so, steel was added below the deck. Before it was merely joists. And before someone comments, the turrets didn sit on the deck..... It was always affixed to metal supports(for small calibre deck guns, main turrets were would sit on a series of supports.) There were many cases of bombs crashed through..... Obviously not tool boxes.... since they weigh no more than 50lbs....

Here is a quote supporting this:
"The bomb broke through the wood deck just aft of the forward elevator and detonated in the forward hangar bay below; the explosion did additional damage to the deck and humped up the forward elevator and jammed it in the raised position. The partly destroyed plane then slid forward into a group of 19 parked planes, shattering three of them and setting them on fire." In Regards to the USS Hancock

I never said use it for joists, but I will say this, the joist spacing by FAR matters.... since that determines the amount of load unsupported, and whether the material can handle it. (ie: in the middle of the joists.)

And the last bit, is that I would expect comments regarding my level of comprehension be left out(not geared toward you Tom, didnt want you to think I was talking to you.) Thank you.

-Brendan

[Kent A Bathurst]

...5/4...is not thin. Most decking these days is 1" finished and is 16" OC. The normal spacing in construction is 16".......

NO KIDDING!!! 5/4 deck boards [wood] is the norm. For 5/4 PT SYP - joists @ 16" OC if you are placing the decking perpedicular to the joists, 12" if you are at 45*. IGNI what the structural value is for teak, but it is so far beyond PT SYP that its not even funny. Few folks of "reasonable means" are in the enviable position of being able to build a deck out of teak - or IPE.

5/4 is too "thin" for decking? Holy Deck Failure, Batman - there is an entire industry about to.....wait for it.......collapse. Sell HD, LOW, GP and other stocks related to PT SYP.

Tee it up. Enjoy it. It'll be beautiful.

[Jeff Duncan]

Yup one more vote to sell it or stash it as IMO it's far too valuable to use on a deck. However it's just my opinion and it's still a free country so if that's what your into...... Just remember to use some nice stainless steel railings to really top it off;)

As previously suggested 5/4 is more than adequate for the average deck though it is generally only about 1" finished dimension. I don't think most homeowners are too worried about 1000 lb bombs being dropped on their decks....or 1000lb anythings for that matter! And if they were, I think you would be hard pressed to provide any decking that would be sufficient short of maybe 16/4 thick Ipe:eek:
JeffD

[John Mark Lane]

Yup one more vote to sell it or stash it as IMO it's far too valuable to use on a deck. However it's just my opinion and it's still a free country so if that's what your into...... Just remember to use some nice stainless steel railings to really top it off;)

As previously suggested 5/4 is more than adequate for the average deck though it is generally only about 1" finished dimension. I don't think most homeowners are too worried about 1000 lb bombs being dropped on their decks....or 1000lb anythings for that matter! And if they were, I think you would be hard pressed to provide any decking that would be sufficient short of maybe 16/4 thick Ipe:eek:
JeffD


LOL, yeah, this discussion has gotten rather silly.

One other point. I don't know what the current thinking is (I try to think as little as possible), but at one time, not that long ago (by old person standards), there was some notion about that using teak was, shall we say, politically incorrect. Now mind you, if I hear that something is politically incorrect, I'm moving as quickly as possible to do it, just to be obnoxious. But in all seriousness, there are some issues around harvesting some hardwoods in poor countries and exporting them to little or no benefit for the native citizens.... and depleting resources. All for something that could be done with another, more plentiful, less exploitively harvested (there's a mouthful) resource. Like in the case of boatbuilding, a lot of things that teak was used for can be done with much more common mahoganies or even synthetic materials. Some people moved toward boats with less wood for just this kind of reason.

OK, rant off. Now send me the teak so I can make furniture from it...

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I would never have a wood deck again. Composite all the way. Why be hassled with maintenance when you can build it once and forget about it for 30 years, except maybe a little washing with a hose?

[Keith Albertson]

Dirk,
If you make the deck, please send me the cut-offs!!!!

[Brendan Plavis]

I wasnt joking about the weight... The talk about the bombs being dropped was just to give a relative weight of what I was refering to.... (ie: if you were to put your machines on it(I have read of people having their tools on their deck(and I am worried about rust..... :eek:) I mean considering that a cabinet saw weighs atleast 600lbs, one of those 10-in-1 machines must weigh a bundle.....

Feel free to send any unusable pieces this way.......... :D

[Jim Terrill]

I wasnt joking about the weight... The talk about the bombs being dropped was just to give a relative weight of what I was refering to.... (ie: if you were to put your machines on it(I have read of people having their tools on their deck(and I am worried about rust..... :eek:) I mean considering that a cabinet saw weighs atleast 600lbs, one of those 10-in-1 machines must weigh a bundle.....

Feel free to send any unusable pieces this way.......... :D

Physics. Look up energy. 600lbs at rest is different from 600lbs at terminal velocity. Seriously, two very different things.

[Tom Rick]

I wasnt joking about the weight... The talk about the bombs being dropped was just to give a relative weight of what I was refering to.... (ie: if you were to put your machines on it(I have read of people having their tools on their deck(and I am worried about rust..... :eek:) I mean considering that a cabinet saw weighs atleast 600lbs, one of those 10-in-1 machines must weigh a bundle.....

Feel free to send any unusable pieces this way.......... :D

So the OP is putting his cabinet saw out by the barbecue grill....

This thread is really starting to smoke.

[Brendan Plavis]

Physics. Look up energy. 600lbs at rest is different from 600lbs at terminal velocity. Seriously, two very different things.

600lbs at motion has a creater chance of shattering. 600lbs at rest will leads to bowing, followed by failure once the yield strength is met. Even up until it reaches its yield strength, it will be structurely weakened. Not to mention, the vibrations from a machine while in its weakened state, could infact cause failure, yet again. If you dont believe me, look up, I believe its the Washington bridge that collapsed in the 40s/50s...

I would appreciate it Mr. Terrill, if you would stop being condesending, thanks (by telling me to 'look up energy...' )

-Brendan

[Scott Donley]

If you dont believe me, look up, I believe its the Washington bridge that collapsed in the 40s/50s...

Wrong again. Aerodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_%281940%29

and the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw

[Brendan Plavis]

Wrong again. Aerodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_%281940%29

and the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw

Yea.... The aerodynamics caused the vibrations which caused the failure... so please... stop posting these "wrong again" remarks... its childish...

[John Coloccia]

Yea.... The aerodynamics caused the vibrations which caused the failure... so please... stop posting these "wrong again" remarks... its childish...

Actually, it wasn't "vibrations". It was exciting a natural frequency...a mode, if you prefer that. Vibration will lead to things such as fasteners loosening (generally, anything that depends on friction). On things that work harden, like aluminum, it will lead to work hardening well.

Regardless, Brendan raises a good point. It's foolhardy to drop a bomb on your deck. It's also probably not a good idea to setup your cabinet saw on a deck, especially if you're hoping to get a glue line rip. If you set one up anyway, be sure to protect the top. BBQ sauce is very acidic and contains salt, sure to corrode cast iron.

[Jeff Duncan]

All I'm going to say is that's a heck of a saw that weighs 600lbs, my Uni's are probably about 200 lbs shy of that. But really it's fairly moot as the OP has never alluded to setting up a shop on his deck

As for composites they are not all they're cracked up to be. Personally I did one deck with them and that's all it took. Wood all the way for me, and there are several woods out there that will last 30 years and look a heck of a lot better (personal opinion) doing it;)
What can I say...I'm a wood guy!
JeffD

[Brendan Plavis]

All I'm going to say is that's a heck of a saw that weighs 600lbs, my Uni's are probably about 200 lbs shy of that. But really it's fairly moot as the OP has never alluded to setting up a shop on his deck

As for composites they are not all they're cracked up to be. Personally I did one deck with them and that's all it took. Wood all the way for me, and there are several woods out there that will last 30 years and look a heck of a lot better (personal opinion) doing it;)
What can I say...I'm a wood guy!
JeffD

We have a trex deck... I get more splinters off it then the wood I use in the shop.... they are supposed to be splinter proof.... I personally hate the gray colour it turns... not to mention it gets very dry/coarse, so its not something thats really comfortable to walk on barefoot...

[Rob Fisher]

All I'm going to say is that's a heck of a saw that weighs 600lbs, my Uni's are probably about 200 lbs shy of that. But really it's fairly moot as the OP has never alluded to setting up a shop on his deck

As for composites they are not all they're cracked up to be. Personally I did one deck with them and that's all it took. Wood all the way for me, and there are several woods out there that will last 30 years and look a heck of a lot better (personal opinion) doing it;)
What can I say...I'm a wood guy!
JeffD

Curiously, what didn't you like about composites and what composites did you use? Obviously not all composites are made the same and they do require a little different care in installation.

Rob

[John Coloccia]

I'm interested about the composite problems too. I'm thinking of redoing the layout of my deck and going composite the whole way. I'm so sick of power washing and refinishing every few years.

[Jim Terrill]

Spend the money and get the better composites if you do it. I have had good results with trex and correctdeck, veranda and the Lowes store brand (timberwolf?), not so much. The cheaper ones seem to expand and contract a lot more and just don't look as good to me. I have never worked with the PVC products but I have heard good things about them too.

[Jon Lanier]

If you do... can I have your scrap and cut-offs? ;)

[John M Wilson]

I built a new deck, and used Trex for the decking and railing, and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. I was really tired of the continual maintenance of my pressure-treated deck, plus I never could get it to look good, even after all the work. The composite looks great, and the care is just a quick scrubbing with a push broom in the spring to get rid of the accumulated winter grime. It's bare-foot pleasant, and was great to work with, too. It's not as stiff as regular wood, so you have to be conservative on joist spacing & etc, but it looks great when you are finished, and looks just as good 5 years later. However, getting back to the OP's original question, I don't think it has the "wow-factor" that teak planking will have, and I am certain that it would not withstand early WWII bombing raids, nor would I place a multi-ton nuclear-powered tablesaw on it. :)

[Karl Card]

Yet again, could you refrain from offering comments on things when you have no clue what they mean? 5/4 AKA 1 1/4" rough sawn is not thin. Most decking these days is 1" finished and is 16" OC. The normal spacing in construction is 16", if you look at a tape there is a reason why every 16" the number is red or there is a special mark. I think post people are able to tell when you are spewing on things you don't understand, but I fear that someone may actually try to follow it. As far as splintering, it has been used in shipbuilding for hundreds of years, the proper method for finishing it is pretty well known by now and it won't splinter if a normal human being walks across it.

I am in absolute agreement. I was hoping someone would chiime in on that one... 5/4 teak is some thick heavy sh(t. If 5/4 isnt thick enought then what in the world would you use? Teak does turn gray but washes away with a pressure washer or even better yet finish it and then it doesnt turn gray.... I do know that ipe is rated at about the same as steel and concrete for fire and I am sure teak has to be close but I am not 100 percent sure on that one.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have done several decks out of Teak, and it makes an awesome deck. I will be starting another one next week.

As far as it being a waste, why I ask would it be any more of a waste than on the deck of a boat?

One could argue that a deck readily available at the back of the house would recieve much more use by many more people that the deck of a boat, and therefore is more respectful to the quality of the tree.

[Mike Archambeau]

I have done several decks out of Teak, and it makes an awesome deck. I will be starting another one next week.

As far as it being a waste, why I ask would it be any more of a waste than on the deck of a boat?

One could argue that a deck readily available at the back of the house would recieve much more use by many more people that the deck of a boat, and therefore is more respectful to the quality of the tree.

If you have any pictures of teak decks I would appreciate seeing them.

[John Mark Lane]

I have done several decks out of Teak, and it makes an awesome deck. I will be starting another one next week.

As far as it being a waste, why I ask would it be any more of a waste than on the deck of a boat?

One could argue that a deck readily available at the back of the house would recieve much more use by many more people that the deck of a boat, and therefore is more respectful to the quality of the tree.


I guess one has a right to make a deck out of whatever makes one happy. I suppose it's not a waste to you if that's what you want. But my answer to you question would be, because the job can be done just as well with more common materials and there are many other jobs that cannot, that the teak would be ideal for (such as boat building). It's like my example above of using black walnut to make wall studs. Why do it, when you won't even see the wall studs and studs can be made from common pine and serve just as well? And the black walnut could be used to make a beautiful piece of furniture. Arguably wall studs are "more important" than beautiful furniture, and serve a greater purpose. But that's beside the point.

Kinda like casting Kate Beckinsale in a movie that requires her to wear a mask and steel outfit the entire time. A terrible waste! :)

[scott vroom]

Yet again, could you refrain from offering comments on things when you have no clue what they mean? 5/4 AKA 1 1/4" rough sawn is not thin. Most decking these days is 1" finished and is 16" OC. The normal spacing in construction is 16", if you look at a tape there is a reason why every 16" the number is red or there is a special mark. I think post people are able to tell when you are spewing on things you don't understand, but I fear that someone may actually try to follow it. As far as splintering, it has been used in shipbuilding for hundreds of years, the proper method for finishing it is pretty well known by now and it won't splinter if a normal human being walks across it.

Jim, ease up a bit. No need to be abusive toward other posters, OK? If we disagree on a subject, let's take a more civil approach to making sure the original poster receives the correct information.

The original poster doesn't mention what joist spacing he's working with, nor does he mention if the teak is surfaced (e.g., 5/4 surfaced both sides is nominal 1-1/16). Without this information it is difficult to answer his question. I don't disagree with anything you've said, however you've made assumptions as to the poster's joist spacing and nominal hardwood thickness that may or may not be correct.

[Jeff Duncan]

I can't remember the name of the decking off the top of my head, but it was the one sold by the big orange store just about 4 or 5 years ago. It was slightly more money than using a decent wood, but was (and still is) all the rage.
Things I didn't don't like about it. Firstly even with pre-drilling every screw hole and using the very pricey specialty screws sold with it I got mushrooming?
Second is that it's actually too hot to walk on when it gets full sun. Where wood warms up this stuff gets nuclear!
In our somewhat challenging New England weather it stains and frankly looks terrible after a year or so. Whereas wood will just grey if you don't treat it, the product we put down has greyish blackish staining.
It also sags from hot summer sun. The deck used 16" spacing and you can see a bit of wave from joist to joist.

In all fairness I'm sure the products are improving every year and many people are obviously happy with them. This is just my opinion from having used one and as I said, if I were to do it over it would be wood. My advice if your thinking about using one of these products is to find someone in your area with it whose had it for several years.
good luck,
JeffD

[Jim Terrill]

Jim, ease up a bit. No need to be abusive toward other posters, OK? If we disagree on a subject, let's take a more civil approach to making sure the original poster receives the correct information.

The original poster doesn't mention what joist spacing he's working with, nor does he mention if the teak is surfaced (e.g., 5/4 surfaced both sides is nominal 1-1/16). Without this information it is difficult to answer his question. I don't disagree with anything you've said, however you've made assumptions as to the poster's joist spacing and nominal hardwood thickness that may or may not be correct.

If you had looked through the previous posts by the user I responded to and his unedited post you would understand my comments. His suggestion was to use joists 12" OC and referred to 5/4 decking as thin. And his suggestions were just another post without basis in common construction techniques or logic.

[Brendan Plavis]

If you had looked through the previous posts by the user I responded to and his unedited post you would understand my comments. His suggestion was to use joists 12" OC and referred to 5/4 decking as thin. And his suggestions were just another post without basis in common construction techniques or logic.

Actually as an engineering student, I have my foot in many different construction logic/techniques. So, please, dont treat me like a neanderthal.

And actually, I edited the post, because I have a joist max, rather than what I was looking to give. This is because I have about 4" worth of notes that I was suffling through to find you the information.


"I can't remember the name of the decking off the top of my head, but it was the one sold by the big orange store just about 4 or 5 years ago. It was slightly more money than using a decent wood, but was (and still is) all the rage.
Things I didn't don't like about it. Firstly even with pre-drilling every screw hole and using the very pricey specialty screws sold with it I got mushrooming?
Second is that it's actually too hot to walk on when it gets full sun. Where wood warms up this stuff gets nuclear!
In our somewhat challenging New England weather it stains and frankly looks terrible after a year or so. Whereas wood will just grey if you don't treat it, the product we put down has greyish blackish staining.
It also sags from hot summer sun. The deck used 16" spacing and you can see a bit of wave from joist to joist.

In all fairness I'm sure the products are improving every year and many people are obviously happy with them. This is just my opinion from having used one and as I said, if I were to do it over it would be wood. My advice if your thinking about using one of these products is to find someone in your area with it whose had it for several years.
good luck,
JeffD "

In response to this quote, could the stuff you are talking about be Trex? I know I have similar stuff to what you are talking about, that turns an awful grayish colour, an thats what it is.... I know that most houses up our way tend to use it. Its an engineered board that costs a small fortune, and becomes very brittle with age(have replaced a piece of trim several times, since that is the corner that sees the most wear... every time it has snapped along the vertical plane where the nail is....)

Respectfully
-Brendan

[Kent A Bathurst]

Hey - the discourse has shifted to where there is a lee shore - and the ship is going aground.

It is all VERY simple, IMO. I guaran-gol-darn-tee you that if I (a) was building a deck at (b) a house I would be living in for a number of years, and (c) I had access to low-cost teak, I would build that sucker out of teak.

No power washing, no stain, no treatment of any kind. My teak patio furniture has that beautiful silvery-grey color, and with the characteristics of teak, there are no splits, no splinters, no nothing, after 15+ years.

Fire-and-forget. Put it in, sit back, and enjoy the nicest deck you could ever possibly have.

[scott vroom]

C'mon Kent, don't be shy............:D

[David Helm]

There probably isn't any need for another person to chime in on support spacing and thickness, but here goes anyway. 5/4 of most woods easily span 16 inches (that includes western red cedar, a very soft wood). 1X Ipe (3/4 inch) is rated for spanning 16 inches also. It is a very dense and very strong wood. My guess is that Teak is also in this category though I have never seen it used as a deck on a house.

[Kent A Bathurst]

C'mon Kent, don't be shy............:D

Too subtle, eh Scott? :p

[Glen Butler]

I didn't want to read it but I did. This thread is like that really ugly person that you just can't seem to stop looking at. Hopefully now that we have cleared out the bomb shell casings and put the tools in the shop where they belong, we are back on track. I am changing my mind; a teak deck would be great.

[Karl Card]

I cant believe the orignal poster just asked a simple question and get biased b/c. Teak is wonderful for a deck, whether you are going for a sturdy deck or a beautiful deck,it fills both bills.

Secondly the poster simply stated that he had extra teak with hardly anyting in it so does it really matter what else you can make with teak, he just wants to know if teak will make a good deck..

just my 2 cents in this thread of disagreement.

[jerry nazard]

I cant believe the orignal poster just asked a simple question and get biased b/c. Teak is wonderful for a deck, whether you are going for a sturdy deck or a beautiful deck,it fills both bills.

Secondly the poster simply stated that he had extra teak with hardly anyting in it so does it really matter what else you can make with teak, he just wants to know if teak will make a good deck..

just my 2 cents in this thread of disagreement.

Well of all the nerve! Here we have a perfectly good thread, littered with off the wall comments and ridiculous statements, and you have to come along and post something reasonable and to the point. Whats this world coming to.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Jeff Duncan]

Karl, you can't believe someone posted a message on an online forum and got opinions? Haven't been at this long have you....that's the whole point;)

Brendan, it definitely wasn't Trex, it was a competitor and at that time the Orange box wasn't carrying it....at least not around my way. Sounds like similar problems between the products though.

JeffD

[ken gibbs]

I bet you can find somebody who would trade you brand new Trex for your teak. You would have a better weather resistant deck and somebody would have some beautiful teak,

[Vinny Miseo]

NO KIDDING!!! 5/4 deck boards [wood] is the norm. For 5/4 PT SYP - joists @ 16" OC if you are placing the decking perpedicular to the joists, 12" if you are at 45*. IGNI what the structural value is for teak, but it is so far beyond PT SYP that its not even funny. Few folks of "reasonable means" are in the enviable position of being able to build a deck out of teak - or IPE.

5/4 is too "thin" for decking? Holy Deck Failure, Batman - there is an entire industry about to.....wait for it.......collapse. Sell HD, LOW, GP and other stocks related to PT SYP.

Tee it up. Enjoy it. It'll be beautiful.


A few years ago I would have agreed with you 100%...BUT try to buy 5/4 decking in the SF bay area. It's not gonna happen. I have no idea why, but I got into a HUGE argument with the guy at a lumberyard about it once. He told me that there was no such thing, and that I must be an idiot. I had built maybe 8 decks on the east coast and this was standard. I KNEW there was such a thing as 5/4 treated decking. I went to 2 Lowes, 2 HD's and 3 lumber yards. NO 5/4 decking!
Funny thing is, you can get redwood in any size you want at all of those places.

[Mike Archambeau]

It is surprising in a wood working forum to hear so many advocates of using plastic decking material instead of nice wood. I would have thought most wood workers would shun plastic decking, pvc trim, vinyl siding, etc.

I am sticking with wood on my place. Western red cedar on back deck, mahogany decking on front porches, cedar trim, cedar clapboards, etc. Yes it requires maintenance to keep it looking beautiful. But it is real wood.

[Kent A Bathurst]

..BUT try to buy 5/4 decking in the SF bay area. It's not gonna happen. I have no idea why...I had built maybe 8 decks on the east coast........

Yep. You should go back to the east coast and have the same conversation with those guys about redwood decking - they will look at you like you have two heads. But you know for sure it exists because you've built decks in SF.

Here's why: A few reasons. SF, et al are upside down on the freight curve. AFAIK, the PT 5/4 decking is exclusively SYP, (there are 4x4 etc that are PT incised HemFir or PondyPine, but never saw 5/4 incised HF/PP decking) which comes from the SE - into E Texas, but still......By the time freight is added, the costs to get it into the retail stores add up to a sell price that is too high to make it viable in comparison to the other species that are native to The Left Coast. Would prolly still be cheaper, but not by enough to make it a smart deal by comparison.

Next - in the BORG world, there are different products/product families by market area. They stock/offer different products by market, due to the specifics of that region - no sense investing in the supply pipeline and inventory for a product that won't sell very much. One odd example (this info is a couple years old, but I'd think is still valid) - in most of the US, the standard for PT lumber (2x6, etc - decking uses diff grading system) is #2 Prime grade. However, in the NE US, that market has traditionally been more expensive #1. Can't give you any logical reason why - that's "just the way it is". So, the BORGs supply different product there, and their suppliers do the same.


Last thought - not sure how much it really applies in this instance - The PT process will subtract 30% of the product from a truckload, so there has to be a (fairly) local treating operation that brings in untreated for processing. There are actually not that many producers of PT lumber on the left coast - much of this has to do with the previous comments re: product by market. At the same time, it would be all but impossible to build a new PT production facility in Calif, due to regulatory hurdles, so the PT capacity is pretty limited - and the moster sellers ain't gonna stock/sell an item where the supply pipeline is constricted, but even more important - they ain't gonna stock/sell an item where there are not at least two viable suppliers with enough capacity and financial muscle to let the BORGS use the two to pound the living s**t out of each other in annual sourcing negotiations. [voice of experience]

[scott vroom]

It is surprising in a wood working forum to hear so many advocates of using plastic decking material instead of nice wood. I would have thought most wood workers would shun plastic decking, pvc trim, vinyl siding, etc.

I am sticking with wood on my place. Western red cedar on back deck, mahogany decking on front porches, cedar trim, cedar clapboards, etc. Yes it requires maintenance to keep it looking beautiful. But it is real wood.

Maintaining my wood deck was a PITA and I replaced it with a low maintenance flagstone patio. I don't find that incompatable with my enjoyment of woodworking.

[Alan Schaffter]

Since the thread is not dead I'll chime in- I truthfully have experience in many of the contested topics.

But first to the OP's question- Teak is a dense, oily, tropical hardwood highly prized for boat trim (too expensive and too heavy to build the boat from it) and outdoor furniture. By regular application of oil it will maintain its reddish brown appearance, but if not will turn a silver gray. The original color can be regained by power washing and sanding. Also, some of the other primary reasons it is used for decking and outdoor furniture, is that it is highly weather, rot, bug, and FIRE resistant! Imports are no longer restricted since it is plantation grown.

So, by all means if the price is right, put that stuff down. So you don't have to look at ugly screws, use SS flanges and screw it from below or use one of the biscuit and screw or special attachment techniques.

If you don't have enough- sell it and use the money to buy Ipe and some tools. Ipe is a name for a family of South American hardwoods that exhibit the same attributes as Teak, only it is much less expensive.

The wraparound porch (over 1000 sq. ft.) that LOML wanted on our Low Country style house was decked with Ipe 6 years ago and, other that turning gray, it is still in great shape. I do nothing to maintain it. It is 4/4, solid, attached to the joints which are 16" o.c. joists at right angles from below with ss brackets. It doesn't flex. Stair treads appear to be 5/4.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P4230014.JPG

My brother and a neighbor both have composite decking (Trex or clone). It needs closer joist spacing since the material, which is essentially a mix of wood fibers and recycled plastic (milk bottles, etc.) is not rigid. It flexes, excessively in my opinion. It requires serious maintenance 1 -3 times per year to remove the pollen, algae and mold that accumulates due to its textured surface. It you don't clean it regularly, when it gets wet, it is slicker than snot. To be fair this may be necessary with an exposed Teak/Ipe deck in some areas.

Now as far as teak on US Navy ships- Teak may have been used from the early days of sail but was limited since most ships were constructed from Oak, SYP, etc. or other woods from local forests.

Likely before, but definitely once the Monitor and Merimack (CSS Virginia) spelled the end of the era of wooden warships, iron and steel ships had their decks overlayed with various woods including teak. It was not restricted to battleships and aircraft carriers. It was done for durability, sound, and heat reasons (under foot and below decks)- steel decks in direct sunlight get mighty hot. After my first year at Annapolis I did a midshipman summer cruise on the early post WWII era heavy cruiser USS Newport News (CA-148). Most (not all) of the the main deck was overlayed (bolted and plugged) with teak. During my thankfully brief rotation in the Deck Department, we spent some time holystoning the deck to clean it. Instead of scrubbing the deck with sandstone or volcanic rock (real holystones had been banned since 1931), we used a "jungle juice" of heavy duty cleaners (including toilet bowl cleaner!), with heavy bristle brooms, swabs (mops) and boiler fire brick holystones to clean the deck. Teak is really tough, it will shatter like other very hard woods, but it takes a lot of force to do it- an 8" shell from its main battery dropped on it wouldn't phase it.

[Greg Portland]

A note regarding Ipe. Ipe is extremely resistant to bending to the point that pre-slotted decking material (for screwless decks) is sold with a 3/4" thickness. I installed 3/4" Ipe for a hot tub deck over 16" centers and there was NO flexing. Halfway down this page (http://www.advantagelumber.com/ipedecking.htm) there are some interesting hardness and bending strength numbers.

[Homer Faucett]

I would agree that teak would make a great deck, but also echo the opinion that there are other woods that would look and perform the same (ipe, cumaru or "Brazilian Teak", etc.), and would be significantly less expensive.

Thus, even if you have little invested in the teak, you could sell the teak, buy the other stuff, and have a great deck and some spare change to pay for the finish, Deckmaster screw/mount system, and other trim and/or hardwear.

Either way, it's an enviable position to be in, and I wish you luck in your decision and execution.

[John Mark Lane]

...Teak is a dense, oily, tropical hardwood highly prized for boat trim (too expensive and too heavy to build the boat from it) ...


Teak is not "too heavy" to build the boat from it. Many boats, including some gorgeous historical pleasure yacths, have been built with teak planking for the entire hull (usually over sawn oak frames). In fact, I sailed a boat once that was built of double teak planking.

Steal, of course, is heavier than teak, and boat hulls are often made of steal. The weight of the material is only relevant with respect to the amount of water it will displace, and any material can be used with the right hull design.

[Brendan Plavis]

Teak is not "too heavy" to build the boat from it. Many boats, including some gorgeous historical pleasure yacths, have been built with teak planking for the entire hull (usually over sawn oak frames). In fact, I sailed a boat once that was built of double teak planking.

Steal, of course, is heavier than teak, and boat hulls are often made of steal. The weight of the material is only relevant with respect to the amount of water it will displace, and any material can be used with the right hull design.

I would say you hit it....

The greater the weight, just means the greater the draft... Hense why if you ever see a ship unloading, it tends to look like its going to sink(it looks like it will stern dive or bow dive into the water....)

Theoretically, as long as there is enough height/length the the ship/boat, it can be loaded to an unlimited weight.....

If your theory was correct, then how would BattleShips have been the key figure in naval battles for decades..? I assure you that a ship built with teak, sure didnt weigh as much as one of those turrets...(particularly the Yamato.)

[Kent A Bathurst]

........The wraparound porch (over 1000 sq. ft.) that LOML wanted on our Low Country style house.....

And a tip of my cap to the lady - looks great!!!

[Alan Schaffter]

Teak is not "too heavy" to build the boat from it. Many boats, including some gorgeous historical pleasure yacths, have been built with teak planking for the entire hull (usually over sawn oak frames). In fact, I sailed a boat once that was built of double teak planking.

Steal, of course, is heavier than teak, and boat hulls are often made of steal. The weight of the material is only relevant with respect to the amount of water it will displace, and any material can be used with the right hull design.

Maybe I should have said: Today's boat builders fine it too heavy, too difficult to work, and certainly too expensive. The trend today is lightweight sandwich sailboat hulls of fiberglass, kevlar, graphite, etc. over lightweight cores of foam, balsa, honey comb, etc. With these it is easier to form and achieve a light, yet strong structure, with smooth lines. Weight saved results in less wetted surface, and faster sailing vessels.

I know all about ships of steel AND other materials and displacement vs bouyancy. I spent 22 years in the navy on a few smaller ships, but since I was in Naval Aviation, most of my sea time was spent on aircraft carriers (Kennedy, Independence, Kitty Hawk, etc. Also, in the early 70's during my first assignment, in my off time I was building a 55' ferrocement (http://www.ferrocement.org/) two masted ketch. It was the size of the boat below, but that is not mine. I was transferred and was lucky to sell the hull armature.

http://209.51.145.59/ad_img/1/9/1/8/7/0_3.jpg

[John Mark Lane]

Maybe I should have said: Today's boat builders fine it too heavy, too difficult to work, and certainly too expensive. The trend today is lightweight sandwich sailboat hulls of fiberglass, kevlar, graphite, etc. over lightweight cores of foam, balsa, honey comb, etc. With these it is easier to form and achieve a light, yet strong structure, with smooth lines. Weight saved results in less wetted surface, and faster sailing vessels.

I know all about ships of steel AND other materials and displacement vs bouyancy. I spent 22 years in the navy on a few smaller ships, but since I was in Naval Aviation, most of my sea time was spent on aircraft carriers (Kennedy, Independence, Kitty Hawk, etc. Also, in the early 70's during my first assignment, in my off time I was building a 55' ferrocement (http://www.ferrocement.org/) two masted ketch. It was the size of the boat below, but that is not mine. I was transferred and was lucky to sell the hull armature.

http://209.51.145.59/ad_img/1/9/1/8/7/0_3.jpg


Alan,

First of all, thank you for your distinguished service to our country. The rest of us owe a great deal to people like you.

As for today's boat builders, yes indeed they are into composites and plastics and lightweight hulls. I love watching the America's Cup races and seeing some of these boats pushed to their limits. Examples of engineering genius, and beautiful to behold.

But not all of "today's boatbuilders" are in that camp. My old friends Ross Gannon and Nat Benjamin would be in a different camp.

http://www.gannonandbenjamin.com/

And the local yard in the town where I build my summer home a decade ago is also in a different camp:

http://www.rockportmarine.com/

But yes, these are remnants of a past almost forgotten.

Still...despite any engineering feets of today's boatbuilders, a boat double planked in teak is a thing not only of beauty, but also of great utility.

:)

[Jim Terrill]

The greater the weight, just means the greater the draft...

Yet again, no. A barge can carry far more weight than a v-hulled vessel with the same draft. Displacement is important, not specifically draft, which is only one component of displacement.

[Van Huskey]

I don't know why I read this... but I did.


Simple, teak makes a great deck, I think we figured that out.

I am one who loves wood but loves composite decks. They took a beating in public opinion since the early Trex sucked. On our vacation home in Louisiana I used LP Weatherbest, at the time it was #1 by CU and lots of building forumites loved it. I haven't had an issue in 4 years looks the same as when it was put down save some dog claw marks if you know where to look. Easy to clean and hasn't cost me a cent to mantain I brush/rinse it twice a year. Neighbors PT deck looked great 4 years ago when new, now looks like crap, time to refinish. It does need 12" OC joist spacing and it is rock solid then, thats at 90 deg, closer for angled but so is everything else.

[Brendan Plavis]

Yet again, no. A barge can carry far more weight than a v-hulled vessel with the same draft. Displacement is important, not specifically draft, which is only one component of displacement.

I would say that you are a little of topic my fine feathered friend...

We were talking about boats such as yachts... last I checked no yacht is a barge....

And actually, draft is the major component of displacement. The further it sits down in the water, the more 'boat' the water is being subjected to, due to the V design. The more 'boat' it is subjected to, means the more water is displaced. This is why hydrofoils were considered and used in experimental designs during the 50s-60s, and are now what are used on Stealth Ships.... A hydrofoil is a small reinforced plane of metal that juts into the water, and when reaching optimal speed, lifts the boat out of the water, and uses that, since its small, it reduces the tell tail wake of a ship, by more than 3/4s. And last I checked, Wake is directly related to displacement... Not to mention it increases the speed...


So please... stop following my every post commenting things such as "yet again, no""Wrong again" et cetera... please be more mature...thanks...

[Tom Rick]

And actually, draft is the major component of displacement..


Displacement is simply the volume of water displaced by the hull.

Draft is not the defining characteristic of a vessels displacement due to the myriad hull forms that the under body may take.

Consider the laden 40' gravel barge which displaces some 70,000 lbs and draws a scant 24".
My 40 sailboat displaces 19,000 lbs and has a draft of 6'...

Or if your thinking must be contained by the "yacht"
Consider the Westsail 32 with a draft of 5' and 20,000 lbs displacement.

The only manner in which displacement and draft are directly linked, is when a specific vessel is more heavily laden, she will rest lower in the water and "displace" more.

[Brendan Plavis]

Displacement is simply the volume of water displaced by the hull.

Draft is not the defining characteristic of a vessels displacement due to the myriad hull forms that the under body may take.

Consider the laden 40' gravel barge which displaces some 70,000 lbs and draws a scant 24".
My 40 sailboat displaces 19,000 lbs and has a draft of 6'...

Or if your thinking must be contained by the "yacht"
Consider the Westsail 32 with a draft of 5' and 20,000 lbs displacement.

The only manner in which displacement and draft are directly linked, is when a specific vessel is more heavily laden, she will rest lower in the water and "displace" more.

That is what I have been trying to state.... When a boat is heavier, its draft becomes greater(thus the displacement is greater...) Sorry If I wasnt clear on that one..

[Tom Rick]

Brendan,

This thread has been fun eh?

Sort of a catch all hub bub of thoughts from all comers- like sitting at a bar near closing....


Regards

[John Mark Lane]

Oh, no...somebody mentioned the Wetsnail 32.... Actually, I love that design.... Teak decks, to boot.