oopsie with cabinet doors - help?

[Michael MacDonald]

I built three free standing cabinets on casters for the workshop... about 30 inches tall, 21 wide. I put five drawers in each. The drawers were sized to rest just inside the face frame so I could mount a flush door on the front...

Well, don't laugh, but I mounted two of the doors last night and figured out that my drawers were sized "so well" that I now can't open the top and bottom drawers because of the knuckle of the hinges. In addition, I didn't figure it would be such a pain to have to have to open the flush-mount door 180 degrees to get a drawer open.... but it is indeed a pain.

Anyone have any suggestion on hinges so I don't have to start all over with these doors? I like them flush because: 1. there is space for that given the recessed drawer fronts, 2. space is dear and I can use every extra 3/4 inch, 3. that is how I sized these doors and I don't want to start all over to make overlay or 3/8 inset doors. I figure one option is to graft an auxiliary frame on the outside of the door frame sized to overlay the face frame of the cabinet... and then mount the door as an overlay. Or I might toss the doors and just put an additional 3/4 face on each drawer... Either way, I thought I was done and apparently I am not. I would rather buy hinges cleverly designed to solve this problem if anyone one knows of any... didn't see anything on rockler.com like that when I looked...

[Paul Atkins]

I never figured out why anyone would want drawers and doors in the same opening, so I'd just not use the doors.

[Roger Jensen]

You could try a decorative strap-type hinge (this one from WWHardware):

http://wwhardware.com/media/products/apcharts/a01670dia.gif

You would still have to cheat a bit to get the barrel of the hinge far enough to the side for the drawers to clear them.

Roger

[Don Alexander]

+1 for just leaving the doors off :D

[Brian Kincaid]

I never figured out why anyone would want drawers and doors in the same opening, so I'd just not use the doors.
That's easy, the door is to keep out the dust, the drawer is so you don't have to unload and reach in the 'way back' to get something you are storing. Think kitchen cabinet bottoms with pull-out pan drawers.

To the original poster strap hinge already mentioned will probably be your best bet.

-Brian

[Jamie Buxton]

The pictured strap hinge would still require you to open the door 180 degrees to pull out a drawer. If you can fudge it so that the hinge knuckle is all the way to edge of the cabinet, then the drawers would clear when the door is open only 90 degrees.

A regular strap hinge may be your best bet. It is long enough that you can screw it to the face of the door and the outside side of the cabinet. For instance http://www.hardwaresource.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=3151

[Bill White]

Scissors hinges at the top and bottom?? Why not just use an overlay door(s)?
Bill

[Michael MacDonald]

a few comments:

That's easy, the door is to keep out the dust...

right. the cabinets will sit right behind me at the table saw. I sized them to be the exact height to serve as infeed support. The dust that gets thrown back at me would go in the drawers without a door...

Why not just use an overlay door?...

So now you tell me! Where were you before when I was planning this?

fudge it so that the hinge knuckle is all the way to edge of the cabinet, then the drawers would clear when the door is open only 90 degrees...

I was thinking about this last night... just moving the hinge. The hinges I have are like the pic in Roger J's comment, but the screw hole is only 1/2" inside the edge of the door frame. While I could move over enough to free the hinge knuckle, I don't have enough hinge leaf to to clear the 3/4 inch door thickness. It might be the best idea, though.

But if I get a strap hinge with plenty of real estate for moving the knuckle 3/4" away from the inside edge of the face frame, this could work. While this approach seems easiest, I was thinking that having a door hang off the tip of the hinge strap (3/4 inch of empty strap to the knuckle) might not provide the best opening/closing action...

Unless there are any cleverer ideas, I will give this a try... probably asymetric strap hinges are the best for this... one small leaf and one long leaf.

[Michael MacDonald]

Scissors hinges at the top and bottom??
Bill

I will have to run with that... don't know what it is.

[Caspar Hauser]

Knife hinges?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=41267&cat=3,41241

[Jamie Buxton]

I will have to run with that... don't know what it is.

He might be talking about a hinge style I know as a knife hinge. (For example http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000999/6008/Brusso-38-x-1-34-Offset-Hinge.aspx) However, all the ones I know about still leave you with the problem that you must open the door 180 degrees to open the drawers. If you use a long strap hinge and get the knuckles at the outside edge of the carcass, you can open the drawers when the door is only open 90 degrees.

[Roger Jensen]

How about a flipper door mounted on the top? Pull out and down over the drawers (this one is mounted on the side for an entertainment center):

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/31118-01-200.jpg

[Chip Lindley]

Michael, gasketing all the drawers would be simple, and avoid the door solution altogether!

But if you insist on doors, adding solid 3/4" edging around the doors and using 3/8" or 1/2" overlay hinges would work. Inset doors are a pain anyhow. Gasket the doors as well. (think refridgerator door) Hidden hinges compound your problems of avoiding them when pulling out drawers. These are *shop storage cabinets* for additional storage; not fine furniture. Form follows function.

[Michael MacDonald]

OK... a few more good ideas. I was thinking about the knife hinge after I read the thread this morning, and sketched a possible solution... I would have to cut a horizontal kerf in the stile on the hinge side of the cabinet... then attach the knife hinge to the underside of the top rail (and the top of the bottom rail), with the knuckle of the hinge in the kerf of the stile... Then the door would open at 90 degrees onto the stile, and clear the way for the drawers. Of course, a bevel on the door frame or the face frame would be required to provide clearance on the turn... And the door would not be sitting 3/4 inches out on the tip of a strap hinge; it would actually be pretty close the face frame because the hinge center is actually inside the stile. The real attractive thought in this is that the hinge would be totally hidden... not grab at my shorts while I am working at the TS. Of course, I would not be able to open past 90 degrees... not sure if that is a real drawback.

The flipper door is a good idea, but the drawers already take up all the cabinet... so that would be a major change. If there was a flipper hinge that installed on the outside side, and allowed the door to flip open and slide along the outside of the cabinet, that might be interesting... This must exist--I think I have seen it for top mounted flip doors that slide on the top of an overhead cabinet.

Gaskets are a new thought. What would I use for that--weather stripping? Is there a specific product for drawer gaskets? I have never seen aftermarket fridge gaskets, but I haven't looked either. Perhaps my best options are now strap hinges, knife hinges with the stile-kerf, and drawer fronts with gaskets.

Chip is right in positioning these as shop cabinets.. they don't have to be pretty... just functional. This was the first time I built cabinets with sliding drawers, so it was somewhat experimental for me... working my way into knowledge... one mistake at a time.

The doors are made, so I think my easiest path to completion is still the strap hinges. Then if I feel froggy in the future I can jump on the knife hinges or replace the doors with drawer fronts. Thanks for all the advice!

[Michael MacDonald]

well, maybe a fourth option--what Chip suggested: graft an expanded frame on the existing door and turn them into overlay cabinet doors.

[Michael MacDonald]

just found this on rockler... perhaps the answer?

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=266

I can't figure out the way it works from the pictures... the description is more about "swinging both ways" (heh heh). But the double action concept sound stop me like there are two pivot points. Anyone know what this hinge is? Could Rockler's description be worse?

[Greg Wease]

Those hinges are for stacked shutters, bi-fold doors, etc. that can be folded 180 degrees in both directions depending on how they are stacked when open. You could use them if you wanted bi-fold doors on the front of your cabinet. Like others who have responded, I would lose the doors and just add plant-on fronts to your drawers.