Jessem's new dowel jig WOW!!!!

[Bill Huber]

Now this is not your mother's little doweling jig, this is built like a tank and a very good tank at that.

When you get it and open the box you say no way, that is just to big and heavy, but once you start to use it, its a whole new ball game. It is very easy to use and the size and weight are just fine. It is very accurate, spot on every time.

It works much like a DowelMax, you have a reference plate and each end is a reference surface. As long as you are using those references you just can't go wrong.

In use it is very easy to use, place it on the board, line up the edge with an end and drill your holes. It can be used on the edge of a board, the face of a board or in the middle of a large board. One of the really nice things is you do not have to use shims to get it set the way you want it. There is a scale on the side that shows you just how far the edge is from the center of the whole.

So you measure the width of your board and then divided it in half and set the scale on the side for that. So with a 3/4 in board you would set the scale at 3/8 and this will put the hole in the center. But if your board is not exactly 3/4 no problem, you will be using the reference surface for all your holes and this will make sure they line up.

To change from edge to face just unscrew the Allen screws from the locking plate and then screw it to the bottom of the reference plate and you are set to go.

If you need to put some holes in the middle of a large board, no problem. Unscrew both the reference plate and the clamp plate and you can just line it up with the center mark on the unit. The one pictured on the Jessem web site does not have the center line, this was added after the pictures were take and will be on every unit they sell.

The knobs that tighten it down are big and easy on your fingers. It does come with a plug for spacing and also a set of rods so you can do indexing. From emails to Jessem this my be changed in the future to a single rod. The two rod system is not as handy as a single rod in that it is a little harder to change and move from one side to the other. To change the indexing now and keep the setting you must loosen one set screw and unscrew one rod, then rotate the stop bracket and rod at the same time, then do the same in reverse to put it on the other side.

Overall, I really like it, it is large and has weight to it but as a said, this is not a problem, in fact it is nice to have that weight at times.


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[Van Huskey]

Very nice. Have been waiting on a review.

[Chris Padilla]

So, Bill, I know you're a big DowelMax fan...what say you on which one you like best now? (not to put you on the spot! ;) hahaha)

[Michael Schapansky]

Since you already had the Dowelmax jig I'm curious why you bought the Jessum unit?

[Michael Schapansky]

Since you already had the Dowelmax jig I'm curious why you bought the Jessum unit? Was there a limitation you wanted to overcome?

[Bill Huber]

So, Bill, I know you're a big DowelMax fan...what say you on which one you like best now? (not to put you on the spot! ;) hahaha)


At this point I think I will keep the Jessem, it is just more of a tool then the DowelMax. Don't get me wrong, I still love my DowelMax but the Jessem is just built stronger.

I also like the fact that I have room to add to the Jessem and the fact that you do not have to use shims to adjust it.

[Bill Huber]

Since you already had the Dowelmax jig I'm curious why you bought the Jessum unit? Was there a limitation you wanted to overcome?

At this point I am a tester and it looks like I will sell the DowelMax and buy the Jessem before long.

[James White]

Bill,

Are any of the retailers selling this yet?

James

[Dave MacArthur]

What are the comparative prices between the two? I have long considered buying the Dowel Max when I got some cash and needed it for a project, but haven't seen pricing for a few years.

And, how would you rate this vs. OTHER methods of cutting/installing floating tenons?
Thanks!

[Bill Huber]

Bill,

Are any of the retailers selling this yet?

James

I am not sure but I think you can order them from Jessem Direct.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/JessEm_Dowelling_Jig_p/08300.htm

[Bill Huber]

What are the comparative prices between the two? I have long considered buying the Dowel Max when I got some cash and needed it for a project, but haven't seen pricing for a few years.

And, how would you rate this vs. OTHER methods of cutting/installing floating tenons?
Thanks!

I have the Mortise Pal but I really don't use it that much, dowels are so much faster and easier to do then making a mortise and tenons.

I guess I am not at the point of being a real craftsman and doing mortise and tenons, they are nice but the stuff I build the dowels have worked really well.

The Mortise Pal will do dowels but its not that good at it. The thing with the Jessem and the DowelMax is the way they set the reference surfaces. This makes both of them very accurate.

Now I really can not comment on the other systems like the Festool but then again all of these are less then half the cost.

Mortise Pal - $169, will do dowels but not that flexible in doing them
DowelMax - $310 will do everything with a dowel
Jessem - $199 will do everything with a dowel

[Phil Thien]

Great review! I know you've been a big Dowel Max fan so the fact you're talking about selling the DM and keeping the Jessem speaks volumes.

[Rob Wright]

Bill -
Great review. You should take over for Workshop Demos!

[Kevin Gregoire]

leave it to Jessem to make a high end dowel jig, very S W E E T !!

might have to put that on my wish list. ssshhhhh

[Bill Huber]

leave it to Jessem to make a high end dowel jig, very S W E E T !!

might have to put that on my wish list. ssshhhhh

I have heard that are coming out with a new router lift also, just have to wait and see on that one.

[Roger Jensen]

I have a question about product review "full disclosure". As a reader of a review on a user-based forum like this one, I had assumed you went out and bought it and were happy with your purchase. However, it appears Jessem supplied this unit to you. I therefore would take it with a grain of salt, just like I do reviews in Wood and Popular Woodworking. You aren't going to be too critical of a product when they gave you a free unit to test.

While there is value in reading your opinion, I think you should have explained they gave you a free unit in your original message. As it is, I feel like you are misrepresenting yourself as an actual purchaser and consumer of these tools.

Thanks,

Roger

[Brian Effinger]

I have a question about product review "full disclosure". As a reader of a review on a user-based forum like this one, I had assumed you went out and bought it and were happy with your purchase. However, it appears Jessem supplied this unit to you. I therefore would take it with a grain of salt, just like I do reviews in Wood and Popular Woodworking. You aren't going to be too critical of a product when they gave you a free unit to test.

While there is value in reading your opinion, I think you should have explained they gave you a free unit in your original message. As it is, I feel like you are misrepresenting yourself as an actual purchaser and consumer of these tools.

Thanks,

Roger
I believe that if he doesn't buy the jig, he will have to send it back when he is done testing.

At this point I am a tester and it looks like I will sell the DowelMax and buy the Jessem before long.

[Bill Huber]

I have a question about product review "full disclosure". As a reader of a review on a user-based forum like this one, I had assumed you went out and bought it and were happy with your purchase. However, it appears Jessem supplied this unit to you. I therefore would take it with a grain of salt, just like I do reviews in Wood and Popular Woodworking. You aren't going to be too critical of a product when they gave you a free unit to test.

While there is value in reading your opinion, I think you should have explained they gave you a free unit in your original message. As it is, I feel like you are misrepresenting yourself as an actual purchaser and consumer of these tools.

Thanks,

Roger

So you are calling me a lair and just because I did not go out a buy the unit I will not be telling the truth about it, that may be the way you do things but not me.

I guess I am different, if something is not right I say so.

So from what you are telling me is any review you do is a good one and you would not say anything bad about the product. To me that is wrong, if you do a review of anything it should be true and not just words to make the product look good.

I guess then any review I read of yours I can just take it with a grain of salt, I guess then I just wouldn't take the time to read them if that is the way you do things, why should I, it will always be a good review.

When I was contacted by Jessem about testing the new jig the one thing that I told them right up front was if I don't like it I will say so and tell the world what I don't like and send it back. I also told them if I liked it I would buy it.

It looks like I already have the DowelMax sold and I will be buying the Jessem.

[Roger Jensen]

I didn't call you a liar. I don't think it is unreasonable for people doing product reviews on this site to say they were asked by the manufacturer to do it and were supplied with the equipment for testing purposes. Perhaps that is common knowledge among the more frequent visitors of this site - it wasn't obvious to me.

I apologize if you interpret this as calling you a liar.

[Don Selke]

Bill:
Thanks for a great report on the Jessem doweling jig. I would love to have a Festool Domino but it is not in my budget. I think the doweling jig from Jessem will fit the bill nicely.

[Prashun Patel]

I don't think it is unreasonable for people doing product reviews on this site to say they were asked by the manufacturer to do it and were supplied with the equipment for testing purposes.

With due respect, we're not a newspaper; we're a forum. Posts go up largely unedited. A poster's credibility and biases are learned by reading his posts over a long period of time.

Anyway, anyone who's followed Bill knows what a power DM fan he's been. So for HIM to tout an alternative really makes me sit up and take notice.

[Don Selke]

Shawn:

Well said, I could not put it any better then that.:)

[johnny means]

You aren't going to be too critical of a product when they gave you a free unit to test.



Roger
Why not?:confused::confused::confused:

[Bill Huber]

Why not?:confused::confused::confused:

I agree 100%, if you are not going to be critical of a product then you should not review it. That is if there is something wrong or bad about the product.

So do all the woodworking magazines buy all the tools they review? :confused:

[Phil Thien]

I think we should change the name of this forum to youcantwin dot com.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey folks...........let's tone it down a little.


I have met and had lunch with the crotchety old guy that did the review here. I can tell you that even if JessEm GAVE Bill the tool, if he didn't like it or found a deficiency, he would tell it like it is. One Saturday 2 years ago, Bill, I and some other Creekers had lunch in Arlington and then invaded a local Rockler store. I bought a tenoning jig for my tablesaw and had it shipped home. I'm not saying it got a little wild at the Rocklers but as we left, one of the salespersons asked us to notify them the next time we were coming and they would have coffee and donuts for us.:rolleyes:

[Van Huskey]

First let me say having read quite a few of Bill's posts if he says its great or crap thats good enough for me, at least as far as another man's opinion of a tool goes with me. However, I do think Roger makes a valid point.

Let me go back to Bill for a second, Bill didn't mention the "relationship" with Jessem in his first post however he was forthcoming in a later post with the information and it is clear to me that he just didn't think it was relevent since HE knows he was being honest and fair. I do however think it is good form to disclose this with any review of a product. I watch/read plenty of reviews on the internet and despite no disclosure from the reviewer it often becomes clear they did not purchase the item in the normal stream of commerce, those reviews get about a salt domes worth of salt added by me. The ones that are clear about their affiliation get much less salt.

In the end if I was looking at a dowel jig based significantly on what Bill said I would buy a Jessem. I do not think Roger had any intent to call Bill a liar or anything of the sort. Finally, I do think anyone doing a review does their self and the community here a good turn by fully disclosing any relationship with a company from a discount others wouldn't get up to being paid for the review.

[Will Blick]

youcan'tWin.com

Phil, I vote we change the name too.... ;-)

too funny...too true... very sad

the internet has spoiled everyone... the fact we have easy access to what our ww friends are doing and trying is not good enough.... now everyone needs credentials, full disclosures, corrobarating witnesses, etc. Nothing is perfect in the review world... even when there is full disclosure...its up to the reader to decide....

I know this might sound wierd, but....

Bill, thanks for taking your time to share your thoughts on this new product....

[Charlie McGuire]

Bill,

The Jessem site indicates 1/4" and 3/8". It says it comes with 3/8 guides and drill bit.

What about the 1/4" ? I didn't see other guides, etc available - how much ?

[Bill Huber]

Bill,

The Jessem site indicates 1/4" and 3/8". It says it comes with 3/8 guides and drill bit.

What about the 1/4" ? I didn't see other guides, etc available - how much ?

They do sell them as an add on.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/1_4_Dowelling_Kit_p/08310.htm

[Robert Chapman]

Very nice evaluation of the new JessEm Dowelling Jig Bill. I have one and I agree with all of your comments. It is a beautiful tool - so beautiful that my first project after receiving it is to build a fitted storage case for it so it won't be banging around in some drawer getting all scratched up.

[Prashun Patel]

Robert, 'Fess up, now! You ain't one a dem Jessem testers, now are ya?

[Van Huskey]

Very nice evaluation of the new JessEm Dowelling Jig Bill. I have one and I agree with all of your comments. It is a beautiful tool - so beautiful that my first project after receiving it is to build a fitted storage case for it so it won't be banging around in some drawer getting all scratched up.


That folks is tool love!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Eureka!

I figured it out.......Bill and Robert....are the only two guys who returned that card to that club that wanted $12.95 a year to join and they would send you tools to test! I just trashed the card!:confused::rolleyes::D

[Leigh Betsch]

I think we should change the name of this forum to youcantwin dot com.

Funny.
But in reality I think we all win here. Thanks for the reviews, inventions, knowledge and sometimes for the down right funny humor. And thanks for having thick skin at times.

[Robert Chapman]

Hey - I buy JessEm products - I have their sliding table and miter guage and now the dowelling jig. I like their tools.

[Bill Huber]

Very nice evaluation of the new JessEm Dowelling Jig Bill. I have one and I agree with all of your comments. It is a beautiful tool - so beautiful that my first project after receiving it is to build a fitted storage case for it so it won't be banging around in some drawer getting all scratched up.

I haven't got mine made yet but I have some basic drawings of what I want.
The problem I am having is which color of velvet to use, black, red or green.:rolleyes:

[Bill Huber]

Eureka!

I figured it out.......Bill and Robert....are the only two guys who returned that card to that club that wanted $12.95 a year to join and they would send you tools to test! I just trashed the card!:confused::rolleyes::D

You mean you didn't return that card, I have so many tools coming in to test I am going to have to get a bigger shop.;):D

[richard poitras]

Bill thanks for the review. In looking at the pictures of the Jessem, to adjust to the center you must measure the width of your wood and set the jig. But in looking at the jig em I right in saying it clicks in to a grove in 1/8th inch increments? If so what if you’re wood doesn’t center into these increments. If I am not mistaken the DM is self centering and your wood would be centered exactly correct? As with the Jessem it could be off just a 1/16th correct? Or am I missing something?
Thanks Richard

[
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[Bill Huber]

Bill thanks for the review. In looking at the pictures of the Jessem, to adjust to the center you must measure the width of your wood and set the jig. But in looking at the jig em I right in saying it clicks in to a grove in 1/8th inch increments? If so what if you’re wood doesn’t center into these increments. If I am not mistaken the DM is self centering and your wood would be centered exactly correct? As with the Jessem it could be off just a 1/16th correct? Or am I missing something?
Thanks Richard

[
150956[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

The DowelMax and the Jessem are not self centering.

The way they both work is with a reference edge, so as long as you use that edge you will always have the dowels line up.

If your board is 7/8 inches the hole will be off center 1/16th on both jigs, if set for 3/4 inch, but it really makes no difference. When you drill the mating holes they will be off a 1/16 also, so everything will still line up just like it should.

The big difference is when you go to a wider board or want to have more then one row of holes. With the DowelMax you use spacers and with the Jessem you just move the reference block.

The use of a reference edge is what makes both of these jig so good.

[Jacob Mac]

I know I am reviving a somewhat old thread, but I wanted to ask Bill if he got the JessEm dowel jig, and if so, what he thought about it after using it for a little while.

[Bill Huber]

I know I am reviving a somewhat old thread, but I wanted to ask Bill if he got the JessEm dowel jig, and if so, what he thought about it after using it for a little while.

The DowelMax is gone now and I really liked the Dowelmax.

I have been using the Jessem now and do like it better then the DowelMax, I have found noting I can't do with it that I could with the DowelMax and the Jessem to me is easier to use.

I have found the more I use it the better I like it, the way it sets up with the marks on the side and not having to use spacers is a big part of it.

[Jim O'Dell]

Well, I'm also late to the dance??? Not sure why I didn't see this before.
Nice write up Bill. And to the others, I'm one that was with Ken and Bill at the Rockler store, and it was a hoot. But somehow I'm remembering a beverage mentioned by the employee that started with the letter before 'C'. :rolleyes::rolleyes: After all, it was a little late for breakfast fare!:D:D
I have hooked up with Bill on a couple of occasions since then for short conversations and the borrowing and returning of a hunk of precision milled steel that helped me set up my new table saw. I will say this: Bill is one stand up human being. You can bank on the words he says as being true and from the heart. Jim.

[Don Dorn]

Of course I've been trying to justify the Dowelmax for about three years and around six months ago, finally pulled the trigger along with the 1/4" kit. Go figure.

It's a great jig, but like the stock market, my timing is off.

[Zane Moseley]

So if you were to drill dowels in the face of a large board you would use the reference edge of the jig to locate the front edge of say a internal cleat. But in order to use the scribed line on the side of the jig that marks the dowel center your workpiece would have to be EXACTLY match what the scale read when you drilled the cleat. I guess this is a minor issue but could see it being a bit awkward if you're using the jig in various situations.

Also I saw your fixture you made to clamp the dowel jig on the face of a large panel. Looks like they could have done a better job in this aspect.

[Bill Huber]

So if you were to drill dowels in the face of a large board you would use the reference edge of the jig to locate the front edge of say a internal cleat. But in order to use the scribed line on the side of the jig that marks the dowel center your workpiece would have to be EXACTLY match what the scale read when you drilled the cleat. I guess this is a minor issue but could see it being a bit awkward if you're using the jig in various situations.

Also I saw your fixture you made to clamp the dowel jig on the face of a large panel. Looks like they could have done a better job in this aspect.

I think I understand the question.

When you are doing the face of a board both the clamp block and the reference block come off and you are just using the main body of the jig.

So you would make a center line where the dowels will go and then line up the center marks on the body with those marks. You can just clamp the body down or you can make a clamp like I did both work, the clamp I made is just a lot easier to use.

The cleat can be any thickness you want just as long as it is wide enough to hold the dowel. The holes will be 3/8" from the side of the cleat or you could set them back if you want.

I hope that answered your question.

I have not found anything I can't use it on to do doweling.

[Zane Moseley]

True the cleat can be any thickness. However its sounds as if the dowel holes in the cleat will only be centered if the thickness of the cleat directly corresponds to a value on the scale. With the dowelmax and jessem if the thickness is not a particular number the holes will still work as you reference an edge and a face. But in this case if the thickness isn't one of the predetermined numbers then face drilling a cabinet side using the scribe line will yield inaccurate results.

Probably not a huge issue but could lead to inaccurate heights of cleats and shelves. The error probably wouldn't be more than 1/32 or 1/16 at the most but it could make a difference with inset doors/drawer fronts.

I plan on buy a jig for simplifying joinery whether it be Jessem, Dowelmax or Mortisepal. Currently I'm leaning toward the Jessem and Mortisepal.

[Bill Huber]

True the cleat can be any thickness. However its sounds as if the dowel holes in the cleat will only be centered if the thickness of the cleat directly corresponds to a value on the scale. With the dowelmax and jessem if the thickness is not a particular number the holes will still work as you reference an edge and a face. But in this case if the thickness isn't one of the predetermined numbers then face drilling a cabinet side using the scribe line will yield inaccurate results.

Probably not a huge issue but could lead to inaccurate heights of cleats and shelves. The error probably wouldn't be more than 1/32 or 1/16 at the most but it could make a difference with inset doors/drawer fronts.

I plan on buy a jig for simplifying joinery whether it be Jessem, Dowelmax or Mortisepal. Currently I'm leaning toward the Jessem and Mortisepal.

If you use the reference then they will be spot on.

Lets say we have drilled some holes on the face and we have them on the center line. If you set the jig to 3/8" mark for the board to be attached then the holes will be center at that point.

So if you have a 7/8" board and you set the jig at the 3/8" mark the holes will be 3/8" from the side you use as the reference. So if you marked the face at the point you wanted the top of the board to be and then dropped down 3/8" from the center line you board will be just were you wanted it. Yes the holes are not centered but it really makes no difference.

That is the one area that you have to understand on both jigs, it does not matter if the holes are centered as long as you use the same reference side.

I have a Mortise Pal and it is a great tool for making mortises and it will do dowels but noting like you can do with the DowelMax or Jessem jigs.

One of the biggest differences in the DowelMax and the Jessem is you do not have to use shims on the Jessem like you do on the DowelMax. I have sold the DowelMax and now just use the Jessem and I am very happy with it.

[Zane Moseley]

Ok I see. I understand the reference edge/face idea of the Jessem/Dowelmax but face drilling was where I got off. At that point you can still use the reference edge but the reference face is removed so that you are allowed to drill the face. Just a bit more thinking involved to get things where you want. In your example of a 7/8" thick cleat attaching to a face of a large board I can see how you are not going straight for the centered scribe line but working backwards off the reference face on the cleat using the center line for guidance.

So looking at the differences between the Mortise Pal and Jessem jig I am starting to see where Jessem or DowelMax will have several advantages. The mortise pal can only do pieces up to 3" wide where the Jessem can self clamp up to a 4" piece but much larger using the face drilling that the Mortise Pal lacks. Then with the Mortise Pal you have to lay out the center of each mortise and use the centerline indicators to locate each mortise. This is not the end of the world but could introduce error. The reference faces of the Jessem will all but eliminate pieces not lining up. I think I'd also rather use a drill for extended periods of use instead of a router, less noise and mess.

Would you say the main advantages of the Jessem over the Dowelmax are:
-Using a scale rather than the shims, less pieces to keep up with.
-Large thumbscrews for clamping workpiece
-Lower price

[Bill Huber]

Would you say the main advantages of the Jessem over the Dowelmax are:
-Using a scale rather than the shims, less pieces to keep up with.
-Large thumbscrews for clamping workpiece
-Lower price

Both work the same way, as you stated the Jessem dose not have the shims and spacers to mess with and that is a big plus to me.

The knobs are bigger on the Jessem but then the whole tool is larger, the Jessem is just more of a robust tool.

Both of the jigs are very versatile and can be used for all kinds of doweling, you can't go wrong with either of them.

[Mike Sayre]

Bill when you got yours did you buy the 1/4 inch or the 3/8 ? Just wondered

[Bill Huber]

Bill when you got yours did you buy the 1/4 inch or the 3/8 ? Just wondered

When you buy it, it comes with the 3/8 and you have to buy the 1/4 as an add on. I have both and use them both. I use the 3/8 the most but on smaller stuff I use the 1/4 and it would just the same.

[Bo McCorkle]

I hafta agree with bill here just pulled te trigger on a Jessem a week or so ago and I absolutely love it. Didn't come with the greatest instructions but a little common sense and the goodies that come with it and you can get it done with a dowel in that thing. I have pretty much just moved strait to it now for my go to joining just quicker than biscuits or anything and strong to boot!!!

[Zane Moseley]

I'm pretty exited, I sold a PC biscuit joiner and used the paypal $$ to get 2 pair of knives for my DW735. I still had $60 left and on a whim I searched ebay today and found a Lamello dowel glue bottle brand new for only $59, it was used as a display model but I don't care. We have a couple of these at work and they are awesome. Hand gluing dowels seems tedious and time consuming.

I also have some guitar parts on ebay. When they sell I'm going to use the $$$ to pull the trigger on the Jessem. Where did you guys buy it?? I found KMS tool has the best price at $169 but I'm not sure if thats US or CAD currency. The shipping is a bit higher than Jessem Direct but its $30 cheaper on the base unit.

[Don Bullock]

Well, I'm also late to the dance??? Not sure why I didn't see this before.
Nice write up Bill. ... I will say this: Bill is one stand up human being. You can bank on the words he says as being true and from the heart. Jim.

I'm even getting to the dance later than Jim.

Bill, if you say the Jessen dowel jig is a great tool I'm sold. Now I have to figure out a way to convince SWMBO that I need one. Seeing that my present tool budget is sitting at $0.00 it will take a while to come up with the $200 I need. Perhaps when I start on some furniture she wants in the bedroom will be a good time. I'll "need" one for what I'm planning to make. Thanks for the review.

[Bill Huber]

Very nice evaluation of the new JessEm Dowelling Jig Bill. I have one and I agree with all of your comments. It is a beautiful tool - so beautiful that my first project after receiving it is to build a fitted storage case for it so it won't be banging around in some drawer getting all scratched up.

I got mine done, works out very well.

179232

[Don Bullock]

That's very impressive. Thanks for sharing.

[Bill Huber]

I'm even getting to the dance later than Jim.

Bill, if you say the Jessen dowel jig is a great tool I'm sold. Now I have to figure out a way to convince SWMBO that I need one. Seeing that my present tool budget is sitting at $0.00 it will take a while to come up with the $200 I need. Perhaps when I start on some furniture she wants in the bedroom will be a good time. I'll "need" one for what I'm planning to make. Thanks for the review.

Now when you get one, it is a great tool, here or some other post to take a look at.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?153582-Drill-bit-collar-jig-for-Jessem-or-DowelMax-dowel-jigs&highlight=dowel+jig

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?150851-Jessem-doweling-jig-flat-work-adapter&highlight=dowel+jig

[Jim Eller]

This thread reminds me of the old saying, "Don't Mess With Texas!" Or, someone from Texas:D

I can say I read and respect all of Bill's posts. He and his experiences have helped me many times.



Here's a question that I didn't see addressed.

Bill, putting price aside, how does this jig compare to a Festool Domino?

Jim

[Bill Huber]

Here's a question that I didn't see addressed.

Bill, putting price aside, how does this jig compare to a Festool Domino?

Jim

I am not sure I can compare them, I don't have a Domino so I am not sure just all it can do.
I am sure the Domino would be great for most work when using loose tenons, that is all a dowel is, is a loose tenon. I guess we could get in to the old question which has the most strength but I think that one has been beat to death so I am not going there.

There are just a lot of places that I don't see using a Domino but as I stated I don't have one so I am not sure. Things were you only use one dowel, I don't see how the Domino would work for that or where you are putting in a dowel at an angle.

I think that speed would be a little faster with a Domino but the doweling jig is really fast.

I think I could use dowels anywhere you use a Domino but I could use dowels in place you can't use a Domino. Now you do have to remember that I have not built a lot of large furniture and maybe if I had I would want a Domino.

I guess I am a dowel freak, I use them for everything and they have been around for a long long time. If I was a production shop I would go with the Domino for most of the work, but I am just a hobby type woodworker so the dowel jig has done everything I need up to this point any way.

Now I know you said put price aside but that is really hard to do when there is $500 difference in them. There is a point you have to look at the price and how you can justify it, I just could not justify a Domino in any way.

So if you put both of them in front of me and told me I could have one or the other at no cost then I guess I would have to think on that awhile.

But I still think for my skill level and for the things I build I would have to pick up the Jessem Dowel jig.

[richard poitras]

Hay Bill your second post you recommended to look at does not come up?
Thanks Richard

[Bill Huber]

They both came up for me, this is the second one.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?150851-Jessem-doweling-jig-flat-work-adapter&highlight=dowel+jig

[Jim Eller]

I am not sure I can compare them, I don't have a Domino so I am not sure just all it can do.
I am sure the Domino would be great for most work when using loose tenons, that is all a dowel is, is a loose tenon. I guess we could get in to the old question which has the most strength but I think that one has been beat to death so I am not going there.

There are just a lot of places that I don't see using a Domino but as I stated I don't have one so I am not sure. Things were you only use one dowel, I don't see how the Domino would work for that or where you are putting in a dowel at an angle.

I think that speed would be a little faster with a Domino but the doweling jig is really fast.

I think I could use dowels anywhere you use a Domino but I could use dowels in place you can't use a Domino. Now you do have to remember that I have not built a lot of large furniture and maybe if I had I would want a Domino.

I guess I am a dowel freak, I use them for everything and they have been around for a long long time. If I was a production shop I would go with the Domino for most of the work, but I am just a hobby type woodworker so the dowel jig has done everything I need up to this point any way.

Now I know you said put price aside but that is really hard to do when there is $500 difference in them. There is a point you have to look at the price and how you can justify it, I just could not justify a Domino in any way.

So if you put both of them in front of me and told me I could have one or the other at no cost then I guess I would have to think on that awhile.

But I still think for my skill level and for the things I build I would have to pick up the Jessem Dowel jig.

Bill,

Thanks. Sorry, I thought you were a Domino user.

My reason for asking was, I recently picked up a used(barely) Domino, and since I guess I'm a "tool freak", I thought just maybe I needed a JessEm dowel jig. I'm a hobby shop too and I think it has some real merit.

Thanks again for your past assistance.

Keep reviewing.

Jim

[richard poitras]

Thanks Bill, in your latest repost it works for me now…. not sure what the deal was.
Richard

[Zane Moseley]

Bill, can the Jessem be used to dowel beveled corners for instance a beveled cabinet case? I was under the impression that you couldn't but your post comparing to a domino suggest that you can. I'm curious how you'd clamp the work piece in the jig as it has to be clamped at an angle. I can see how you could do a mitered picture frame as the face you have to clamp on is flat.

[Bill Huber]

Bill, can the Jessem be used to dowel beveled corners for instance a beveled cabinet case? I was under the impression that you couldn't but your post comparing to a domino suggest that you can. I'm curious how you'd clamp the work piece in the jig as it has to be clamped at an angle. I can see how you could do a mitered picture frame as the face you have to clamp on is flat.

As it comes no you couldn't but with an adapter you could do it, the adapter would not be much to make.

[Zane Moseley]

Well it appears that the distribution for the Jessem dowel jig pretty much sucks even after this much time on the market. There are NO distributors in the US that carry the jig, this is per Jessem's CS after I reviewed the online stock of the US sites on their "where to buy" section on their site. KMS in Canada has a decent price of $180 but has none in stock and has a 4 week lead time plus at least 1 week shipping, drop shipment is not an option. JessemDirect just raised their price to $230. I guess I'll have a long time to think of fixtures/jigs for this piece as I won't be seeing anytime soon. You'd think they'd make this piece accessible after spending a sizable amount of time designing and marketing it.

I will probably contact Jessem to see if they could ship a unit immediately at a discounted rate. It's probably a long shot but there's no way I'm paying an additional $50 to save a month, I'm not in that big of a hurry for the jig.

[James White]

Bill,

I have been waiting for this to reach the retailers as well. Any info as to why this has not happened yet? I'm not suggesting that you should know. Just wondering if you did.

James

[Zane Moseley]

KMS in Canada has the jig for $180 but won't ship for 4 weeks which sucks. I emailed Tool Coral, Woodworker's Supply and Eagle America today to see if they could get me a price on the jig and the 1/4" bushing kit. Eagle America responded that they do not carry the jig and cannot order it for me, perhaps they have more business than they can handle lol. Woodworker's Supply seems interested in ordering it and I'm waiting on a price. I've not yet heard from Tool Corral.

I'm still debating whether or not I want the 1/4" jig. I guess I could see using it for drawer boxes but I'm not sure what else unless its thin stock applications. If I do get it I want to get it with the jig as this stuff is proving hard to get.

[Bill Huber]

I understand that the Tool Corral should have them in stock next week.

http://tool-corral.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/index2.html

[James White]

Thank you Bill. I will contact them next week.

James

[Zane Moseley]

I've been in contact with Brian Culwell @ Tool Corral. Earlier this week he was still checking pricing. Just today they have added the jig to their site at a good price http://tool-corral.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page152.html as well as adding the 1/4" bushing kit. I just ordered both the jig and the 1/4" kit, hell ya. I'm especially excited that he said they are expecting them in next week, everyone else has reported a 4 week lead time. I'm looking forward to using them to join the legs on my work bench I'm building. Woodworker's Supply can also get the jig but at a much higher cost and a 4 week lead time.

It appears the Jessem jig is taking its time getting into distribution, especially in the US. I'd be surprised if there are more than a couple dozen in the entire US.

[Zane Moseley]

Geez Bill the suspense is killing me. Good thing Tool Corral is supposed to be getting in their jigs this week, if he's BS'ing me and it will actually be 4 weeks I may die lol. Your pictures on the first page don't help. Looking at the Jessem next to the DowelMax almost make me feel bad for getting it for $180 when many have paid over $300 for the DowelMax. The Jessem just looks like a beast!

I've had to suppress my anxiety by ordering dowels and other related items. I just ordered 900 dowels from McFeely's. I also got a killer deal on a Lamelo glue bottle that arrived Friday. We have a couple at work and they work very well although they are very pricey. I got one off ebay that was a display model for just $60 and came with the biscuit tip and all 3 dowel tips. They usually sell for $90-$100 so I was happy with my find. Do you just squirt glue in your dowel holes or do you use a brush. Here's the Lamello bottle.

http://www.lamello.com/en/products/wood-joining-system/glue-applicators/dosicol.html

[James White]

Just as an FYI have had made a dowling jig purchase from KMS and have a tracking # that indicates it is currently in the state of WA on its way to me. I was prepared to wait for it to come in stock but it shipped the next day after I ordered. That was Thursday.

[Zane Moseley]

Well I thought I would have the doweling jig today. UPS showed it delivered and I couldn't wait to get home from work. So I opened the box and there sat a damn Pocket ZipSlot mortiser. But hey at least they put in the 1/4" bushing set I ordered. The CS with ToolCorral has been good so I'm sure they'll take care of me but I was really looking forward to playing around with it.

[James White]

Sorry to hear that Zane. I received mine on Tuesday. I haven't had a chance to use it. But I must say this thing is a beast! It weighs about six pounds and looks very well made. I am impressed!

Bill,

Do you have any recommendations regarding dowels. I picked up a small pack at Home Depot. But I would like to get at least 100. Do you get them in different lengths? HD only had them in one length.

James

[Mark Blatter]

I ordered one direct from Jessem on 2/3 as they had it on sale for $199. I found it for $179 (don't remember where now) but thought if I had a problem buying direct would be better than saving $20. So far I have no idea if it has shipped or not. Received an email confirming my order, but nothing since then. I am in no hurray, but would like to have some idea of shipping timeframe. Oh well, I need to finish my wife's dresser before starting something else.

[Zane Moseley]

James, take a look at McFeely's. I got 900 various sized 1/4" & 3/8" dowels delivered for under $20 and they seem to be good quality. There may be better ones out there but for the money these seem very nice. So I now have 900 dowel and a 1/4" bushing kit lol.

[James White]

Zane,

I do not see a variety set. Do you buy the individual packs?

James

[Zane Moseley]

Yeah, I just bought what I thought I would use most. I got like 300-400 of the 1 1/2"L x 3/8 dowels as I think I'll use a lot of those.

[James White]

Did you go with the $2/100 or the $8/100? I don't see what the difference is. Anyone know?

http://www.mcfeelys.com/dowel-pins

James

[Bill Huber]

Do you have any recommendations regarding dowels. I picked up a small pack at Home Depot. But I would like to get at least 100. Do you get them in different lengths? HD only had them in one length.

James

The ones at HD are not very good, at least the ones I got there once.
I get mine form Lee Valley, I am sure there are other place to get them but I have always had very good luck with their dowel. I use the expansible type, the only problem they really hold, I have dry fitted parts together and left them for a little bit and come back and they are really hard to get out.

I get 1 1/2" and they work for just about everything I have needed so far.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32732&cat=1,250,43217,43228

[James White]

Thank you Bill. I am working on putting an order together, for LV. So this will be a logical choice.

James

[Zane Moseley]

James I was wondering myself why they appear to have a lower priced dowel and a higher priced one. I got the cheaper ones and the seem really nice. The $1 shipping is nice as well.

[Zane Moseley]

Got my jig today. Tool Corral was very helpful and quick in resolving their mistake, a big thumbs up to them.

First thoughts on the jig are as Bill said WOW, this thing is heavy duty. Perhaps borderline overbuilt but you gotta love a good solid tool. Offhand there were a couple tapped holes that I didn't see their use but I don't have much time tonight to investigate, I'm sure there use is fairly apparent or even perhaps a means for them to hold the billet aluminum while machining.

One thing that would have liked to have seen is for the markings and numbers to have been etched & painted instead of just painted. This is a lifetime tool and I'm not sure if the screening will last as long as the remaining components. Also the center line they have marked is screened on the newer models should be scribed IMO.

So far it looks great unfortunately I'll be out of town the whole weekend so I won't get a chance to play with it.

[richard poitras]

..................................................

[Ken Genovese]

Bill,
thanks for the great review. I was ready to order the Dowelmax once I had enough money, after reading the view and web searching for reviews I ordered the Jessme. It came yesterday and I have tried it out on a project. It worked perfect. It's a quality tool and I could not be more satisfied.
Thanks Bill

[Alan Wright]

I know this is an old thread, but since it's been reactivated... I bought the Jessum last fall after reading Bill's review. I have the Domino, a Dewalt bisciut joiner, a Kreg System and this beauty. I use the Jessum for virtually every joining situation I can get away with. It is incredibly easy to use, spot on accurate, and quick. I spent $900 on the Domino and $200 on the Jessum, but I get much more use out of the Jessum.

[David Sorensen]

This is by far the best review I have read on the Jessem doweling jig. Thank you! You have helped me make up my mind.

[frank shic]

alan, why do you prefer the jessem over the domino? you could potentially save many woodworkers a great amount of angst over not having the latest and the greatest from festool!

[Dan Bowman]

Frank - I'll echo Alan's comment. I've had a domino for 3 years and the Jessem a couple months, but I already prefer the Jessem. It's simply more accurate. I count on the Domino being just a hair off because unless you build a clamping jig, you're holding it in place. The Jessem locks down tight and there's no movement. It may not be as fast, but it's a lot more accurate.

[Will Blick]

So how significant are the benefits of the Jessem over the Dowelmax?

Dan, I considered a Domino, and one of the features I liked was the slight sloppiness of the domino on its width, this assures simple alignment. My fear of the Jessem was, being off the slightest amount would create pieces that won't fit, i.e. no error allowance. You seem to have dispelled the need for such with the Jessem, is my assessment fair?

[James White]

Frank - I'll echo Alan's comment. I've had a domino for 3 years and the Jessem a couple months, but I already prefer the Jessem. It's simply more accurate. I count on the Domino being just a hair off because unless you build a clamping jig, you're holding it in place. The Jessem locks down tight and there's no movement. It may not be as fast, but it's a lot more accurate.

That it? I am cured of Domino envy? I refuse to believe it! Till I see some more proof.:p

[joe milana]

Frank - I'll echo Alan's comment. I've had a domino for 3 years and the Jessem a couple months, but I already prefer the Jessem. It's simply more accurate. I count on the Domino being just a hair off because unless you build a clamping jig, you're holding it in place. The Jessem locks down tight and there's no movement. It may not be as fast, but it's a lot more accurate.

I've looked at the Domino countless times, and have always shied away for the very reason you mention. Doweling jigs are slower and laborious on larger projects, but the accuracy makes up for it.

[frank shic]

dan, did you try the domiplate modification for the domino? although dust collection is non-existent, the jessem doesn't seem to produce as much waste as the domino. i may have to purchase one of these jessem dowelling jigs to see the difference for myself. wouldn't mind getting back some dough lol

[Dan Bowman]

Frank - I was not familiar with the domiplate, but it looks like a valuable accessory that would improve accuracy. And I'm not giving up my Domino - with the optional 4 mm cutter I can mortise 3/8" stock (jig necessary) which is impossible with the Jessem.

[Will Blick]

The 4mm domino is a game changer for those of us who join thinner stock. A normal biscuit is 3.2mm thick IIRC.... so we are approaching biscuit thickness, yet versatility to do more...

[frank shic]

dan, there's a lot of discussion on the festool owner's forum about it. one of the members is evidently a machinist and has built a few batches to center the dominos on 1/2" and 3/4" stock although you can build one on your own like i did and use some of the extra parts from that useless festool accessory that's supposed to help with vertical positioning... i forget the name specifically and use one of those jig knobs you get from rockler's. i'm looking forward to building some cabinet boxes with it in a few weeks.

[James White]

I am reviving this thread as I am unsure about loose dowels. I have noticed that my dowels are a bit loose. Upon further investigation I have found that both Jessem and Dowelmax are using 9.7mm drills and guides on there jigs (Jessem has stopped this practice on there newest dowel jig). It seemed to me that this may not be so good since dowels are made for a 3/8" bit. Well I found the following post on the Canadian Woodworking site. It seem that this manufaturer of dowel pins seems to think that a 3/8 dowel in a 9.7mm hole if not a full strength joint. Does anyone know where to get 9.7mm dowel pins? I thought about using a 3/8" drill. But that would lead to inaccurate holes. Since the bushings are for a 9.7mm bit. It would also lead to not being able to use the alignment pin.

forum.canadianwoodworkin (dot) com/showthread.php?46205-Smaller-dowelmax-dowels

There has been no change in material, only to the tooling.

I have struggled for years to make the 3/8” pins closer to .375”, design problems with the tooling prevented this. To make the 3/8” to exact size the compression rollers would double roll the pins rolling the high points down, making the pins much smaller than .375”. I have recently re-engineered the tooling and am now able to make the 3/8” pins so that they will work better for my customers who use a 3/8” drill in jigs and automatic drills and inserters.

Most jigs and all industrial applications use a drill the same size as the pins used.

The 3/8” pins start out the same size they always did. The package says 3/8” I don’t believe that anyone should think that they would be suitable for any other size.

A normal dowel joint should be a friction fit, that is, if you can put the joint together by hand and more important, if you can take that joint apart by hand, the joint is much too loose. Dry fitting should be done with dowels that are smaller than standard to facilitate taking the joint apart. There should be no need to use excessive numbers of pins to keep a joint together. It is normal to use a dead blow hammer or clamp pressure to pull a joint together. I have a customer who tells me he has made over 30,000 chairs using my pins with most joints having 2 pins and has never had a joint failure, I met his largest customer at a trade show and he confirmed my customers claims.

It seems to me that somehow I have been made responsible for other peoples decisions and actions. I have never promoted or said that my 3/8” dowel pins should be used in anything other than a 3/8” hole, never in a 9.7 mm hole. A 9.7 mm drill is .3819” in diameter, this is not only larger than the dowels my pins are formed from, not enough of the compression will come out of the pins to come anywhere near to the diameter required to fill a 9.7 mm hole. There isn’t enough moisture available from the glue for the pin to regain its former size and not enough time, with the glue setting up much too quickly to allow much expansion. To make matters worse a drill will make a hole larger than itself, if it didn’t you wouldn’t be able to remove the drill from the hole.

The glue to wood bond comes on either side of the compressed grooves, the glue resides in the grooves not where the high points contact the wood and this is where some of the compression is released. Most glues shrink during curing and some if this is made up with the expanding wood. Other non-compressed multigroove dowel pins also expand when they take up some of the glue moisture, the problem comes when the joint and the pins dry out. The non-compressed pins shrink back to their former size and start to pull away from the glue. During the life of the joint during winter and summer cycling the non-compressed pins will become compressed by the hole getting smaller when the wood swells and when the wood dries out again in dryer weather the joint starts to loosen, continual cycling is the main culprit to joint failure. Straight grooves allow loose pins to pull straight out with little restriction.

The optimum glue to wood joint is .003” this will form on either side of the high points, no dowel pin is capable of having all of the surface area available with the required gap.

While I am not responsible for the situation users of jigs that use 9.7 mm drills have inherited, I do feel compelled to do what I can to make available a dowel pin that would suit a 9.7 mm hole.

This is why I have created the 9.7 mm pins, while the 3/8” pin size was used by woodworkers in a 9.7 mm hole, it was never large enough to give a proper bond. I have had a number of inquiries by concerned woodworkers even before I had changed the 3/8" tooling and thought that it wasn’t fair to these customers to have a jig designed for a 9.7 mm pin when none exists.

We currently have 9.7 mm pins in 1”, 1 1/2” and 2” lengths in quantities of 100 and some in 1,000.

The new sizes mentioned on the inserts refers to new lengths of existing diameters as well as new metric sizes and the 9.7 mm pins, not the small change in diameter of the 3/8” pins, which amounted to .002" to .003".

Some if the new drilling machines that look like biscuit joiners with 2 drills use metric drills, Imperial drills are not available in the sizes required to fit some of the new machines, this is why I have started manufacturing some Metric sizes.

The tolerances I work in are smaller than some of the metal working shops I know, keep in mind this is wood we are working in and it sometimes seems to have a mind of its own.

I hope this helps.

[Bill Huber]

I really don't have an answer for you on where to get the 9.7 dowels, I really don't know that I have ever used them.

I get all my dowels from Lee Valley, they are the expansible dowels and are labeled 3/8". I use the 9.7mm bit from Jessem and I also still have a 9.7mm that I got from DowelMax, its really nice to have 2 bits.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32732&cat=1,250,43217,43228

I will say that the dowels of late do not fit as tight as the one I first stated using a few years ago but I have had no problem with them. I have dry fit things together and left them over night and then had to sue a dead blow hammer to get things apart.

I put some glue in the hole and then push the dowel in, glue will squeeze out all around the dowel, if not I add another drop of glue, I also do the same on the mating part. I then will brush the squeeze out around and add any glue that is needed on the surfaces of the boards.

I have not had a dowel joint failure on any of my projects.

[Greg Brophey]

Hello to all,

This question is for anyone who may use longer dowels or tried Jessem's newest doweling jig. What do you think of the newer jig and would you still buy the bigger one discussed in this thread going back now a few years. I am getting ready to buy a doweling jig for making some doors, and felt this was best way to go. I would prefer 5/8" dowels by 5" long, but don't see any jig going to that diameter. My biggest concern since I have not used any of these doweling jigs yet, is what is the precision of the dowels when drilling in deeper for longer dowels? This will lead to a error factor not recognized in the shorter dowels, but will multiply quite a bit when using longer dowels, unless these jigs will let me drill in perfectly 90 degrees to the jig going in at least 2 1/2" in the wood. Can anyone comment on what they have experienced when doing this? If no one has tried, would someone please experiment into this? I have written to Jessem about this question but have not gotten any replies. I noticed they don't sell any dowels longer than 2". Is that for a reason???

I am leaning toward this newer model only due to the fact that it has 1/2" diameter dowel holes. Would someone please comment on the accuracy of these jigs for longer dowels, and the difference in the new and old models, if any, as I believe the older model may be able to do more things accurately, but does not have 1/2" bushings.

I appreciate any time taken to answer these questions, as these have not been asked before and are very important issues that should be analyzed.

greg

[Harvey Miller]

Greg:


I tried that using the dowelmax. My hole depth was 1.8 inches. To reach your desired depth I had to remove the dowelmax and make a second pass freehand.
So, I think you’d probably need to drill in two stages- first with the jig, second to depth (preferably with a drill press).

[Bill Huber]

Greg:


I tried that using the dowelmax. My hole depth was 1.8 inches. To reach your desired depth I had to remove the dowelmax and make a second pass freehand.
So, I think you’d probably need to drill in two stages- first with the jig, second to depth (preferably with a drill press).

Couldn't you just buy a longer bit, they make them like 12" long.

[Greg Brophey]

I was thinking along the lines of just buying a larger length 1/2" that would allow me this.

What about the newer model Jessem came out with?? Any feedback on that? I don't think anyone here has bought both models, but interesting to hear. Would you still favor the older model over this newer model?

Does anyone see any problems drilling longer holes in these bushing guides for 5" dowels, regardless of the diameter? Bill, what do you think of the accuracy in going deeper and longer, or haven't you tried this? I appreciate the time you have taken to respond. I would definitely go the one drill length route, and I see so many door manufacturers now using 1/2" or 5/8" dowels in their door construction. I am talking passageway doors, not cabinet doors. Same thing, only bigger and longer.

[Bill Huber]

I was thinking along the lines of just buying a larger length 1/2" that would allow me this.

What about the newer model Jessem came out with?? Any feedback on that? I don't think anyone here has bought both models, but interesting to hear. Would you still favor the older model over this newer model?

Does anyone see any problems drilling longer holes in these bushing guides for 5" dowels, regardless of the diameter? Bill, what do you think of the accuracy in going deeper and longer, or haven't you tried this? I appreciate the time you have taken to respond. I would definitely go the one drill length route, and I see so many door manufacturers now using 1/2" or 5/8" dowels in their door construction. I am talking passageway doors, not cabinet doors. Same thing, only bigger and longer.

I bought the new one when it came out and had it about a week and sold it to Phil Thien here on the Creek.
I just like the way the old one worked better, it has the clamps made right into the jig and the new one you have to use a clamp on it.

I think the accuracy would be no problem with either of the jigs. But if you are going to use 1/2" dowels then you will have to go with the new one.

Here is a thread from Phil on the new one.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?213567-JessEm-doweling-jig-every-hole-perfect&highlight=jessem

[Greg Brophey]

I bought the new one when it came out and had it about a week and sold it to Phil Thien here on the Creek.
I just like the way the old one worked better, it has the clamps made right into the jig and the new one you have to use a clamp on it.

Bill,

I really hate to make the 1/2" bushing the only reason. It looks to me you get more for your money with the older one. Looks like an extremely nicely made template jig, and from the feedback, very accurate. If I buy one, the fact you were able to use both and sold the newer one puts a lot of emphasis on me buying the older one. These are not cheap, and I will probably only ever buy one. I don't know strength issues of 3/8" vs. 1/2", but the joint would have to be stronger if I used more dowels if using 3/8". Not too many people have a chance to use both ones, and this is a strong point for me going with the older one, which appears to me to be their top quality one in looking at it and the price structure.

I will be giving it some thinking over in next few days and maybe Jessem will be back with me on the longer dowel question.

thanks for all the help here, it is appreciated.

greg

[Bill Huber]

Bill,

I really hate to make the 1/2" bushing the only reason. It looks to me you get more for your money with the older one. Looks like an extremely nicely made template jig, and from the feedback, very accurate. If I buy one, the fact you were able to use both and sold the newer one puts a lot of emphasis on me buying the older one. These are not cheap, and I will probably only ever buy one. I don't know strength issues of 3/8" vs. 1/2", but the joint would have to be stronger if I used more dowels if using 3/8". Not too many people have a chance to use both ones, and this is a strong point for me going with the older one, which appears to me to be their top quality one in looking at it and the price structure.

I will be giving it some thinking over in next few days and maybe Jessem will be back with me on the longer dowel question.

thanks for all the help here, it is appreciated.

greg

You may want to PM Phil Thien and talk to him about the new one, he really likes it.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Concerning strength of dowels. They are not appropriate for heirloom quality. Other than that, they work pretty well. Aside from doweled chairs, which always come apart (as most lighter chairs do anyway, no matter what the joinery), when I find doweled furniture coming apart it usually has to do with abuse or poor design permiting excessive racking.

[Art Mann]

Concerning strength of dowels. They are not appropriate for heirloom quality. Other than that, they work pretty well. Aside from doweled chairs, which always come apart (as most lighter chairs do anyway, no matter what the joinery), when I find doweled furniture coming apart it usually has to do with abuse or poor design permiting excessive racking.

If dowel joinery is not suitable for "heirloom" quality, then why do so many true heirlooms from the 1600's forward still exist? If you will give me a big hammer and a few moments, I can demonstrate how no form of wood joinery is suitable for heirloom quality.