Wire wheels?

[Brendan Plavis]

Sorry that all my questions are about maintainance recently, but, I didnt want to put a question about WWs under the heading painting saw table(previous thread) since I figured it would cause confusion.

My question for you is, are the wire wheels/cups for angle grinders okay to use to clean up a saw table? I have seen how efficently they derust, but do they also cause make the table less than flat...

I was going to spend $16 to get a jug of rust evaporator, but then it clicked that a wire wheel and angle grinder(cheap HF) might go further(for about maybe $21-$25.....Since its clear that I will be certainly doing a whole lotta derusting till I insulate the door in the garage to keep some of the moisture out...(obviously I would need to get wheels periodically.)

But I figure before I obliterate the table.... I might want to ask....

Any ideas?

[Jim O'Dell]

I'd be afraid that the wire brush would be too extreme for this purpose. If you can get a sanding disc and put a 3M pad (they make different grit pads) on it, I'd go that way. But maybe an orbital sander or hand held oscillating sander would be even better. The angle grinder would probably spin faster than you need. Jim.

[Bruce Page]

You’ll maintain a flatter, better looking surface using a ROS.
A word of caution with wire wheels – ALWAYS wear safety glasses/ goggles, the wires will come off!

[Brendan Plavis]

Hmm... the issue is, I dont have a ROS.... hmm....

I might clean up the surface then get a piece of sheet metal to use as an artifical top(duct tape it on) that way I dont have to worry about the rust pitting the actual table, and its easier to clean(dont have to worry about ruining the cast iron)... Would lose a small amount of height(26 guage thick enough?(cheapest at lowes($6)

But, if that is the case, I one time going over wouldnt kill it, right?

But, Bruce... dont worry about the eye pro, I learned that lesson already.... I still have blurry vision out of that eye(blurer than before.)

[John McClanahan]

If you use a wire wheel, you may want to use a face shield along with gloves and long sleeves. Wires will fly off, and can stick in your skin.

John

[David Prince]

I don't even want to answer this, but don't put a piece of sheet metal on the top! It is wrong on multiple levels!

It will also trap moisture in-between the surfaces and still cause you problems.

[Brendan Plavis]

I was thinking a thick layer of wax, non buffed, then the psuedo top, to sandwitch it. Or maybe Water Displacer #40....

I would think about using a ply top, but it cannot be greased as well, not to mention, it would loose precious resaw height....

" don't even want to answer this, but don't put a piece of sheet metal on the top! It is wrong on multiple levels!

It will also trap moisture in-between the surfaces and still cause you problems."

[Jim Terrill]

I was thinking a thick layer of wax, non buffed, then the psuedo top, to sandwitch it. Or maybe Water Displacer #40....

I would think about using a ply top, but it cannot be greased as well, not to mention, it would loose precious resaw height....

" don't even want to answer this, but don't put a piece of sheet metal on the top! It is wrong on multiple levels!

It will also trap moisture in-between the surfaces and still cause you problems."

If you add metal, your fence may not fit, if you add ply, it will not fit. At all. And duct taping it is not safe. If it moves and catches in the blade, it will shoot back at you and you will end up in the hospital. Sorry to be the naysayer, but that is a scary dangerous idea.

[Brendan Plavis]

I dont use a retail fence.... I am too cheap.... I either use the one I made... or I freehand(the perfered method since the fence has screws that catch since I couldnt get them in(the face is polycarb; tried, resulted in the drill jerking out of my hands and the bit breaking.... go figure.)

Its a bandsaw, so i am not worried about it catching and shooting back.... worst that happens is I end up with a sparks show(followed by a quick shutdown to prevent possible fire.)

[Jim Terrill]

I dont use a retail fence.... I am too cheap.... I either use the one I made... or I freehand(the perfered method since the fence has screws that catch since I couldnt get them in(the face is polycarb; tried, resulted in the drill jerking out of my hands and the bit breaking.... go figure.)

Its a bandsaw, so i am not worried about it catching and shooting back.... worst that happens is I end up with a sparks show(followed by a quick shutdown to prevent possible fire.)

I read saw table as table saw. As for the screws, use a countersink bit.. The point is that the additional table height will not allow the fence to attach to the rails on the face of the saw

[Brendan Plavis]

I dont use rails..... I use a square and C clamps to hold it down.... its primative....

[Don Jarvie]

Go get the green and gray real scotch brite pads, the cheapies don't really work as well and then scrub until you get every bit of rust off. Once done rub the paste wax in good on the table and buff off. Repeat each day for a few to put a good coat on.

After that once a speck of rust appears get the green pad and rub it out.

You can use the fine wire wheel in a drill but don't go hard on the table. It doesn't take much to get the surface rust off.

Also, try to get some ventalation to you work area, open a window or door if you can.

You just have to keep up with the rust which is a pain but needs to be done.

[Scott T Smith]

I'm going to go against the flow, and support your original idea to use a wire wheel (wire cup brush) on a hand held grinder. Welding supply houses stock wire wheels in various guages; there are some relatively soft wheels (fine wire) that would be relatively gentle.

The most aggressive wire wheels are the ones with thicker wires that are twisted into little bundles, and then attached to the wheel.

I've used the more aggressive 6" wire cup brushes on a body grinder (9") to derust a large straight line rip saw w/o any problems, and I would not hesitate to use a fine wire cup brush on a tablesaw top. I followed the wire wheel work with a RAS, which left a nice surface.

[Rick Lizek]

You might want to test this theory of a wire brush wearing away the table. I've been rebuilding machines for over 30 years and wire brushing all kinds of tables including jointers and see no evidence of such a thing. I have Starrett machined straight edges and cannot measure any loss of metal. As said there are many wire gauges of brush wheels as well as straight wire and knotted wire. I also like the nylox wheels, plastic bristles with a an abrasive.

The rule of thumb is to start with the least aggressive and if that doesn't work go to the next level.

[Jason White]

A scotch brite pad and mineral spirits should be all you need for light to moderate rust. Jason


Sorry that all my questions are about maintainance recently, but, I didnt want to put a question about WWs under the heading painting saw table(previous thread) since I figured it would cause confusion. My question for you is, are the wire wheels/cups for angle grinders okay to use to clean up a saw table? I have seen how efficently they derust, but do they also cause make the table less than flat... I was going to spend $16 to get a jug of rust evaporator, but then it clicked that a wire wheel and angle grinder(cheap HF) might go further(for about maybe $21-$25.....Since its clear that I will be certainly doing a whole lotta derusting till I insulate the door in the garage to keep some of the moisture out...(obviously I would need to get wheels periodically.) But I figure before I obliterate the table.... I might want to ask.... Any ideas?

[Louie Ballis]

Two words

"BarKeepers Friend"

Great for taking off rust and follow with a generous application of "Glide" a sealer and fricton reducer. EZer than wax, no need to buff it off.

[Greg Portland]

Once you get it clean, get some cardboard boxes and make table covers. As long as the cardboard sits flat on the cast iron the condensation will form on -top- of the cardboard and prevent your top from rusting.

This is the one thing that 100% worked for me in my garage shop (in Oregon, where we have moisture issues).

[Callan Campbell]

A fine wire wheel won't hurt the cast iron at all, but as others have said, your rust would have to be pretty bad to need this extreme of a measure. Plus 1 on the Scotchbrite type pad method. You can also get small pad versions of these at Autoparts stores that you can attach with a special small mandrel/holder and use your common 3/8" drill with. The pads ARE small, so the surface area covered isn't alot, but if you're not wanting to use hand power for the rust removal, these pads WILL remove rust, gaskets, crud, just like the larger versions. They are also sold in various grits, just like their big brothers.
Once you're cleaned off, paste wax or BoeShield applied regularly should keep your rust at bay.

[Brendan Plavis]

How would one go about using the fibre pads, like they have at HF....

They say they are twistlock? Does this require a special adapter? Those look closest to emery cloth and the only ones available in Fine grit....

-Brendan

[Callan Campbell]

How would one go about using the fibre pads, like they have at HF....

They say they are twistlock? Does this require a special adapter? Those look closest to emery cloth and the only ones available in Fine grit....

-Brendan
Brendan, scroll down to my previous post, these are the type of disc holders I was taking about. There are two main types out there, simple Velcro style[hook and loop] and the Twistlock style. Both adapters for each style are pretty cheap. The mandrels/adapters have usually a 1/4" diameter rod on the end so that either a simple hand drill will turn them in a chuck, or you can use a die grinder with its 1/4" collet chuck. Both styles are often sold as a complete kit for someone starting out.
Again, if we're on the same page, the discs are smaller than the half sheets of the 3M/Scotchbrite , but they allow power to be applied. Since you mentioned you DON'T have a Random Orbit Sander, you're out of luck using the also common 5/6" 3M type discs that a normal ROS can run.
Unless you want to spend some money for setting up with a power tool, just get some of the dead common Scotchbrite type sheets/pads and use hand power.
It WILL take longer, but if the rust is only surface deep, and it's a small Band Saw table we're talking about, it shouldn't be that bad. Yes, No?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My $0.02 in this is to NOT use any powered sanding device. Even a ROS can take off metal pretty fast. Depending on your saw, the manufacturer went through great lengths to make your table as flat as possible. ROS with a Scotch brite + Barkeepers friend would be enough. If the rust is to the point of being pitted, then resurfacing is the best way. Of course, if you don't care about flatness, then power sanding is the way to go.
I'd second the opinion of a grinder and wire wheel is not what you want to do. They actually remove metal pretty good too. You just can't see it being done, since it happens so fast.

[Brendan Plavis]

Brendan, scroll down to my previous post, these are the type of disc holders I was taking about. There are two main types out there, simple Velcro style[hook and loop] and the Twistlock style. Both adapters for each style are pretty cheap. The mandrels/adapters have usually a 1/4" diameter rod on the end so that either a simple hand drill will turn them in a chuck, or you can use a die grinder with its 1/4" collet chuck. Both styles are often sold as a complete kit for someone starting out.
Again, if we're on the same page, the discs are smaller than the half sheets of the 3M/Scotchbrite , but they allow power to be applied. Since you mentioned you DON'T have a Random Orbit Sander, you're out of luck using the also common 5/6" 3M type discs that a normal ROS can run.
Unless you want to spend some money for setting up with a power tool, just get some of the dead common Scotchbrite type sheets/pads and use hand power.
It WILL take longer, but if the rust is only surface deep, and it's a small Band Saw table we're talking about, it shouldn't be that bad. Yes, No?

I am inpatient... I dislike handpower... I would like to get back to woodworking(without the rust dust on my work..)

I figure It will cost about $10 for an angle grinder at HF(coupon) and maybe another $5 for a set of grinding disks...(this thing a ma-bob, says its a .25 collet, arent most grinders 5/8ths...)

I would use a drill, but it wouldnt fit under the wheel housing of my BS, and I really want to avoid taking the table off(heavy as... crud....)

$20 for the ease of that... I sure as heck dont mind.....

[Joe Shinall]

I have to say I bought a Craftsman Mouse sander a long time ago and never used the damn thing. Then when it came around to cleaning off the rust on my tables I put a sheet of scotchbrite on the Mouse and it works great. You can get a Mouse like sander from HF for about 15 bucks I think. (last time I saw one from there it was that price). Or just spend the 30 bucks for a Mouse or a cheap ROS just for this.

[Glen Butler]

The cast iron on most tools is really quite soft. You would wreak havoc using a wire wheel. I agree with others about using scotch bright, an ROS, or even scotch bright under the ROS. You could also use some sandpaper on a sanding bar. This will help maintain a very flat surface.

[Jim Terrill]

I am inpatient... I dislike handpower... I would like to get back to woodworking(without the rust dust on my work..)

I figure It will cost about $10 for an angle grinder at HF(coupon) and maybe another $5 for a set of grinding disks...(this thing a ma-bob, says its a .25 collet, arent most grinders 5/8ths...)

I would use a drill, but it wouldnt fit under the wheel housing of my BS, and I really want to avoid taking the table off(heavy as... crud....)

$20 for the ease of that... I sure as heck dont mind.....

An angle grinder does just that...grinds...on an angle. Trying to evenly grind the table and keep it flat will be next to impossible, especially if you have never used one before. If you can buy a cheap angle grinder, you can buy a cheap ROS and do it more accurately.

[Brendan Plavis]

An angle grinder does just that...grinds...on an angle. Trying to evenly grind the table and keep it flat will be next to impossible, especially if you have never used one before. If you can buy a cheap angle grinder, you can buy a cheap ROS and do it more accurately.

I am sorry about the phrasing on that: I meant thse things: http://www.harborfreight.com/pack-of-5-4-inch-fine-grade-fiber-grinding-discs-65716.html

I didnt mean the iron oxide ones.... From the looks, it looks like a emery cloth...

Or should I just get the porcupine type cup brushes....?

I would get an ROS, but its like $20 for a HF one compared to $10, then add the paper/wheel, etc...

[Scott Donley]

In your case I suggest soap and water then air dry. You can then start four more threads on the same subject and maybe try one of the suggestions you have been given in the first four.:rolleyes:

[Jeff Monson]

The only power tool I would recemmond is a ROS, you have to be very careful with the scotchbrite pads on a disc, they remove metal quickly when used on a highspeed tool, on a drill at lower speeds would be ok. I'd be careful either way, you can end up with a uneven cast top in a hurry.

[Brendan Plavis]

In your case I suggest soap and water then air dry. You can then start four more threads on the same subject and maybe try one of the suggestions you have been given in the first four.:rolleyes:

Please keep the smart remarks to yourself..... thanks

-Brendan

[Scott Donley]

Please keep the smart remarks to yourself..... thanks

-BrendanYou seem to use that a lot since joining. There is not always an EASY way to do something,sometimes you have to put in a little effort and try one of the suggestions that have been given in this and past threads.

[Prashun Patel]

With all due respect to flatness, not all wire wheels are born equal. I sanded rust off my tablesaw with a FINE wire cup. It did a great job. The scratch pattern wasnt quite the same as the original finish, so you could still see the spot, but there was no rust, and the top remained flat.

I used a fine wire cup last year when I restored a few handplanes. Flatness there is arguably more critical than on a bandsaw, and there it worked fine.

Just my experience.

[Van Huskey]

For those that don't know this is a new (display) bandsaw. The rust that is on it just needs a little elbow grease going to more agressive means just doesn't make sense.

There is something going on here that we/he hasn't put his finger on. CI doesn't need this much care, care yes, more time than woodworking for less than 2 square feet of CI... no.

[Brian White]

Wire wheel and grinder. From experience not speculation.

[Mike Cruz]

This CANNOT be a serious conversation! Wire wheels on a table saw? Sheet metal on top of the bed? OMG, are you all really falling for this? :eek:

[Todd Hoppe]

Can you post a picture, even if just from a cell phone? This would help us figure out the issues.

[kevin loftus]

This CANNOT be a serious conversation! Wire wheels on a table saw? Sheet metal on top of the bed? OMG, are you all really falling for this? :eek:

Nope not me Mike.:(

[Brendan Plavis]

This CANNOT be a serious conversation! Wire wheels on a table saw? Sheet metal on top of the bed? OMG, are you all really falling for this? :eek:

Mike is obviously just looking for attention: I clearly stated that I was thinking about using a wire wheel attached to an angle grinder/drill. And I also clearly stated that it was a bandsaw, not a table saw... I said saw table... as in the table of the saw... And further more, sheet metal ontop of a paste wax sandwich I figure would prevent the cast from rusting, and used as a throw away every time it gets misshapen.... So please, dont give him the attention he is looking for... he does this with every one of my threads....

[Mike Cruz]

Oops, you are right, I thought you said table saw, not saw table. So, the picture in my mind was, well, you try to picture someone putting sheet metal on top of a table saw...

As someone else said, putting something on top of the table (even with paste wax under it, is a bit unorthodox, and in my opinion, not a good idea.

I gasp at your threads when they are gasp-worthy. I comment on them (and your posts) when they are rediculous. When I have spoken out of turn, I got an earful here. What did I do? I listened, thought about it, apologized if necessary (like I just did in my opening sentences), took advice, learned. Sometimes, people just have a difference of opinion. These aren't the situations I'm refering to.

You've come up with some convoluted ideas. You've dismissed nearly all advice given to you. You roadblock everything helpful that is being suggested to you. Hey, go back and look at my first post (or two or three...I don't remember when my posts began to sway). I was VERY much on your side. I gave you the soundest advice I could think of. It seemed to fall on deaf ears and dismissed as not possible.

I am still up in the air as to whether you are a teen with issues, or someone that is enjoying the absurd here. If you are the teen, it is no wonder why your parents and grandparents don't trust you. If you are a troll, well, that explains a lot.

I find it odd, for example, that you had no money for tools, but then ended up with a BS. Don't have/don't want to spend $ for a dehumidifier, but speak of methods of doing things that are wastes of money. BTW, a dehumidifier would be a GREAT thing for you. And another BTW, it was recommended for you to get a dehumidifier, the proper/nice response would be to say, "Yeah, that's a good idea, I will look into that as soon as I get my door insulation issue taken care of." That way, the person suggesting it feels like they are appreciated, and their time wasn't wasted. Then, go research the prices and whether it would be good for you.

Oh, I'm not looking for attention. I just feel bad for those that waste their valuable time.

[Brendan Plavis]

I have a less able budget than most..... dehumidifiers are expensive, not to mention the fact that they are costly in terms of electricity...

The only reason I am willing to get a cheap angle grinder is because it is....wait for it... cheap.... I have tried the steel wool idea(SOS) and I have tried some other methods... it just isnt working for me... people tell me it might be something oxidizing, so perhaps thats it..., but I am trying to find a way to take it off quickly... since I am growing inpatient...

I am sorry if you think I am throwing out sound advice, but I cannot justify $20 for a bottle of 'Boeshield' that is less than a bottle of tonic....

"I am still up in the air as to whether you are a teen with issues, or someone that is enjoying the absurd here. If you are the teen, it is no wonder why your parents and grandparents don't trust you. If you are a troll, well, that explains a lot."

This comment is completely unneeded.

And as for convoluted.. I think not... Have you ever seen the bottom of a boat? There are zinc pieces bolted in certain spots(mostly commercial.) Do you know what these are for? They are sacrifical pieces designed to absorb the rust, leaving the hull(im my case the table) unharmed. The sheet metal would be galvinized, which, zinc coated...which prevents the rust from penetrating into the metal, but merely rusts the coating...

And no, I am not dumb enough to put a piece of sheet metal on top of a table saw.... I like being in one piece...

[Scott Donley]

Mike, agree with everything you posted. :D

[Bruce Page]

This thread has run it's course.