Bugs eating my walnut

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I have been storing my stash of walnut and cherry outside my shop for the past year or so. Well, when I went to move it inside today, I found what I think are termites, but they may be some other wood eating bug in the walnut. They are eating it up. Question is, what should I do? I want to get the walnut inside but I don't want to just bring the bugs with it. Should I spray it or something? Help.

[Brendan Plavis]

But for the organic wood, you might be able to kill the bugs by imersing it in waterprior to bringing it inside. Now, I realise that you are most likely going to say that you dont want your organic wood wet, but, I would be fearful of damage to the specimin...

You might also try and contact your local pest control to find out if they know of anything.

[Jim Terrill]

But for the organic wood, you might be able to kill the bugs by imersing it in waterprior to bringing it inside. Now, I realise that you are most likely going to say that you dont want your organic wood wet, but, I would be fearful of damage to the specimin...

You might also try and contact your local pest control to find out if they know of anything.

What are you talking about organic? Dunking the wood in the water won't do anything for any laid eggs and there is a pretty good chance that you won't kill the bugs either.

Rob, the only way to be 100% sure that the bugs, eggs, etc are killed is to put it in a kiln. And please don't dunk your dry woods in water as suggested above.

[Dave MacArthur]

I would NOT submerge your wood...

As an aside, it's best to NOT post advice to people if you have no knowledge on the subject, or are guessing, poor advice can cost people a lot of effort/time/money.

Here's a good thread talking about power post beetles hitting sapwood in walnut, with some good links to various treatments.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=121937&highlight=powder+post+beetle

Here's another one on beetles in walnut:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=107076&highlight=powder+post+beetle

[Cody Colston]

I have been storing my stash of walnut and cherry outside my shop for the past year or so. Well, when I went to move it inside today, I found what I think are termites, but they may be some other wood eating bug in the walnut. They are eating it up. Question is, what should I do? I want to get the walnut inside but I don't want to just bring the bugs with it. Should I spray it or something? Help.

Just about anything will kill termites. Even moving it into a dry area will kill them. They have to have access to moisture (the ground) to survive.

But, if I recommend a chemical treatment, surely someone will chime in noting the hazards of working with poisonous wood. :rolleyes: So, it looks like kiln drying is the only solution that will pass the internet woodworking forum test. ;)

BTW, was your wood stored in contact or near contact with the ground? That's a sure way to invite termites. They are virtually everywhere outside and are actually quite beneficial in breaking down dead timber. You don't want them in your house or outbuildings, however.

[Mike Cruz]

Brendan, WHAT are you thinking?

Listen, you, you...ugh, I don't know where to start!

I hate to bring this up again, but are you TRYING to sound like a troll? If you want us to believe you are a 15 year old kid with a diagnosed sydrome, you will HAVE to stop with absurd advice. You have said some off the wall things on this forum, but this might have taken the cake.

Rob, I would imagine that you are intelligent enough to know NOT to follow that advice.

Brendan, take note of the advice I'm about to give (or not give as the case may be)... Rob, I don't know what you should do. So I won't tell you to do something that ANY real woodworker would know not to do. I will, however, leave it up to the more knowledgable, or at least helpful folks here...like Dave.

Ugh....

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Rob, I would imagine that you are intelligent enough to know NOT to follow that advice.


Yes. I am. Most of you probably didn't see his original post but I did get it via email. I think you're right about the "15 year old kid" comment.

Dave, evidence doesn't lend itself to powder post beetles but I'll take a close look at those threads.

Cody, to answer your question, the wood is on pallets but pretty close to the ground. You mention getting the wood away from moisture. Do you think it might be worth a shot to bring the wood inside my shop & stack it up in the middle of the floor? Let the bugs kill themselves off? If so, how long do you think it would take? They won't make their way to my walls will they?

The kiln idea is probably not going to work for me though as I don't have one. It's about 250 bf of walnut so I'm talking about a significant investment here. I also have 200 bf of cherry and 100 bf of basswood out there but it doesn't look like the bugs got to those.

I've considered calling pest control & I just may end up doing that. Still hoping to find a solution without spending major $$$.

[Mike Cruz]

Rob, if getting it away from moisture, and adding heat are the ingredients to getting rid of them, maybe putting them on concrete and covering them in a dark tarp on a really hot summer day would get it hot enough to kill them. I REALLY don't know if that would do it. Just a stab in the dark at trying to solve your issue without spending a lot of money. I'm not sure just how hot you have to make it for them...

[Phil Thien]

Rob, if getting it away from moisture, and adding heat are the ingredients to getting rid of them, maybe putting them on concrete and covering them in a dark tarp on a really hot summer day would get it hot enough to kill them. I REALLY don't know if that would do it. Just a stab in the dark at trying to solve your issue without spending a lot of money. I'm not sure just how hot you have to make it for them...


Actually, I've read that wrapping lumber in black plastic, and putting it in the sun on sawhorses will get it hot enough.

There is a temp. that kills 'em (don't know what it is, I'm sure you can google it). Should be able to use a thermometer with a remote probe (maybe one of those wireless thermometers for grilling) to let you know what you hit the temp. Obviously, you have to hit the temp at the center of the board. Maybe drill a hole into one board from the side and insert the probe there.

[Dave MacArthur]

Yes, the info on black plastic in the sun was why I posted the threads on PPB in walnut. I live in AZ, and I guarantee you I could sterilize wood wrapped in plastic... not sure how much heat you could get this way in PA.

On the Turner's Forum there is a guy Scott T Smith, who I believe runs a sawmill/kiln but in any case he knows his stuff. This week he commented in a thread about temperatures required to sterilize wood when kiln drying, it appears that just like pasteurization you can do higher temps for short times, or lower for longer. He mentions 133F for 30 min at board center.

Here's his post, but if you are interested in sterilizing via some sort of kiln, I'd google the site using Scott T Smith as your discriminator, he has posted quite a bit of knowledgeable and pertinent stuff.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1422239&postcount=19

[Mike Cruz]

Great info, Dave. As for how hot you could get it in PA... right now, iffy, in July and August...would 95-100 degrees do? ;) Granted, it doesnt' get quite as hot here as in AZ, but we do get VERY strong sun. And occasionally, we crest 100. Unfortunately for us, that is almost always coupled with high humidity, so it gets down right hateful.

[Nathan Palenski]

On the few occasions I've had to stack wood outside I always gave it a sprinkle of diatomaceous earth. Some on the wood and some around it on the ground. On the few occasions I've found bugs on it afterward they were already dead.

When I'm ready to process the wood I blow the DE off with a compressor. Its nasty stuff you dont want to breathe but you can get it on your hands and even eat it I think. You can get it at southern states and I think tractor supply.

[Paul Greathouse]

I agree that kiln drying is the way to go. Kiln drying would probably be no more expensive than a professional exterminator and most likely more effective. It would also be much safer to your health once you start working with it.

The last kiln drying I paid for was .75 cents/bdft.

[Kevin Godshall]

Rob, where are you at in Pa? I'm up here in the northeast corner and we have a few kilns that will do drying for custom work. Just talking with some guys this week, the timber market seems to be moving, so not sure what the availability or cost would be.

[Nathan Palenski]

Does anyone know if a solar kiln reaches the temps needed to kill most bugs?

[Scott T Smith]

Dave M - thanks for the kind words.

Rob, I am a kiln operator. If I was in your situation, I would consider the following four remedies.

1 - treat the wood with a boric acid treatment. I personally use a product called "Timbor" (which I purchase off of e-bay). This works best for green wood that has not yet dried and that you will not be putting into a kiln. The drawback to using Timbor (or any other boric acid treatment) is that to be the most effective you have to mix the solution with water and wet the wood. Again, works best on green wood. It is very effective against termites.

2 - create an amonia fuming tent and fume the wood. This will kill any bugs and larvae present in the wood, but in some instances may change the color. I treat my large oak slabs this way (6" - 14" thick), and thus far it has worked well.

3 - run your boards through the sterilization cycle in a kiln. Before doing so, test the moisture content on the boards to know where to start. If they are below 10%, you can go immediately into sterilization. If they are higher, you will need to dry them in the kiln for a few days before sterilizing. USDA specs for sterilization calls for heating the *center* of the board greater than 133F for 30 minutes. If the kiln is set at 135F, it ususally takes a 24 hour cycle to have the heat penetrate all of the way to the center.

4 - subject your boards to a high vacuum. Vacuum kilns sterilize as part of the drying process; I'm going to speculate a bit... I would be curious to see if a vacuum veneering setup would achieve the same result if the boards were left under high vacuum for 24 hours or so. I believe that this would work well as long as you could achieve a significant vacuum.

What part of PA are you in? I have a friend that is NE of Pittsburg that operates a kiln and does a lot of walnut.

Nathan, typically in the south a well constructed solar kiln will achieve the proper temps for sterilization. Sterilization methods vary; several days at 120F or higher achieves the same result as 30 minutes at 133F.

Rather than using diatamacious earth, you may want to consider a boric acid treatment such as Timbor applied to the ground all around your stack. My concerns about DE is related to having the residual sticking to the wood when it is jointed/planed, and accelerated wear on the knives.

The nice thing about boric acid is that it is very safe to handle and relatively non toxic to people and pets.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Thanks everyone. Still haven't decided how I'm going to deal with these bugs but I figure I'll throw another question out there.

I have a separate stack of about 200 bf of cherry sitting outside. It is not stickered. Bought it dry a few years ago. It was covered but apparently not good enough. About half of the boards are soaked with water. Obviously, they need to be re-dried. I'm planning to re-stack and sticker them, and provide a better cover to keep the water out. Does this sound like a good plan? Will I run into issues because it had already dried and got wet again? How long do you think it'll take to get them dry again?