Paint saw table

[Brendan Plavis]

I give up... I have already coated my bandsaw table with 2 coats of Johnsons Paste Wax, thick coats, and I am seeing faint signs of rust already(I cannot tell if thats just some that I never got up, but if any more accumulates then this will apply.) I was wondering if it would be possible to just paint it, and be done with it!

I realize I am being a bit anal about the rust, but in the moisture of my workshop/garage, it seems to be the only solution I can see...(I really dont feel like putting another $200 on a dehumidifier.)

How much would a powder coat cost?

Would this leave a smoothe enough surface?

I havent been in my garage in the past two days(eye is still dialated, so I am sensitive to light.) But this really is no fun to be derusting every couple days..... Dang.... darned global warming causing all this moisture.... :D

-brendan

[Jerry Bruette]

Powder coating your saw table would require some way to bake it, that's how to powder coat paint is cured.

I've never used it but the Boeshield products have high reviews here on the creek.

Jerry

[Brendan Plavis]

Powder coating your saw table would require some way to bake it, that's how to powder coat paint is cured.

I've never used it but the Boeshield products have high reviews here on the creek.

Jerry

I would probably outsource the powder coating.... either that or start cooking up a culinary delight.... if you know what I mean(wonder what the 'rents would think of this one....) Sufflay a la revêtement en poudre(powder coat in french).... :D

-Brendan

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I mentioned this before, but get a can of Topcoat. Apply a couple coats, and you shouldn't get any rust. Just let each coat dry thoroughly before buffing off.

[Andrew Nemeth]

You have probably already seen all this before but...

Have you been applying the wax with steel wool or something abrasive to really work it in? You can also heat up the surface with a hair dryer to melt it in. Apply several coats allow each to dry between. Don't buff until very dry, it should be pretty difficult to buff, I build up a sweat.

If your still getting rust a used Craigslist dehumidifier would be my first choice over powercoating or painting. You will probably have more money wrapped up in powder coating one table then you would with buying a dehumidifier. A dehumidifier will help keep all of your tools nice, but more importantly, if it is that humid in your shop your lumber is likely not very stable either. If you do end up powder coating or painting you will get scratches that you will have to touch up or wax to prevent rust.

-Andrew

[Matt Kestenbaum]

My workshop is in the basement and its pretty dank...even as basements go. I'd used wax and a week later some fuzz. Then I tried Boeshield T9...a few more more weeks but then some dull fuzz seemed to be creeping back. Especially where there were hand or fingerprints.

Using both has been my winning ticket. First get up any residual rust...and wax up. I've used (very sparingly) Boeshield Rust Remover on any tougher spots (it came in a promo pack with the T9 and some pitch remover/blade cleaner). Wipe it off fast to prevent any etching. Cover the iron with a fairly liberal coat of T9 and rub it in with a no scratch scotch brite pad. Wipe. Apply another coat and let it set for 30-45 minutes. Wipe any excess and let set for an hour. Then I apply good paste wax (no silicon) with another no-scatch scotch-brite pad. Buff and repeat twice more. I have now gone 4-5 months without having anything but a slick shiny jointer or TS.

[Myk Rian]

Brendan;
Powder coating is not the way to go. It's expensive.
Here's what I do.

Bar Keepers Friend. A powder found in the grocery store.
Make a paste with water. Scrub it in real good.
Wipe it off real good.
Do it again in spots that need it.
Wipe it off.
Wipe real good with alcohol.
Now apply the paste wax in a thick coat. Just one coat.
Melt it into the surface with a hair dryer.
Buff it with an old T shirt.

[John Mark Lane]

I hate to say it, but having "been there" in a serious way, there is not much you can really do in the long run if you have a very humid shop. One of my prior shops was in a garage that was at the bottom of a hill, and every time it rained a small amount of water would creep in at a couple of corners. But more than that, it was just always humid. Many good tools rusted constantly in that shop. Plus it was uncomfortable to work in.

I tried dehumidifiers. Like trying to empty the ocean with a bucket. Not to mention you have to route the outflow hose somehow, and the damn things take a lot of electricity to run (read: high electric bills). Plus they make an annoying noise.

I would actually suggest maximizing the use of alloy metals. I know it's not a great suggestion, but I ended up with a few Delta Shopmaster tools that were mostly aluminum, and they didn't rust (except the blades). Other than that, constant use of Boshield or other coatings helps, but it is a constant uphill battle.

I can't tell you how happy I am to finally have a dry shop space. I feel like I can finally buy good tools again!

Sorry, didn't mean to rain on your parade (no fun intended). But really, the cold hard reality is it's a hard hard battle against humidity.

[Doug Carpenter]

It's kinda like when you buy a new hammer. It just isn't going to stay shiny. Unless you have a climate control shop you are just going to have to live with it.

I have bought these magnetic covers for my steel tables. They work well, you cover them when you are not using them.

My dryer blows into my garage and it still keeps my table saw in good shape.

I also use Butcher's clear paste wax. It is for bowling alleys. I also use it on my concrete countertops.

[Joe Chritz]

If your shop is that humid then you have bigger problems than the cast iron as well. Wood projects don't like going from high humidity to low after being built.

Before you get crazy, buy a $20 gauge from radio shack that reads the relative humidity. The RH in the shop should be under 45% at all times.

If the RH is in an acceptable range then you may be getting condensation from the cold cast iron surfaces. This is more a problem in the summer and in tight shops, mine is very bad for it. Often leaving a small oscillating fan running keeps the air moving and fixes the problem.

If the RH is much over 45% then you are likely going to want to find a way to keep it down some. Heating is much cheaper than dehumidification and accomplishes the same thing. You can even dry green lumber by just keeping the inside temp 20 degrees or so higher than outside.

No matter what I am a firm believer you need to know the RH in your shop so you can monitor where the wood is at. Not as accurate as a moisture meter but completely workable.

Something else is going on if you are getting rust after waxing. Try not to worry about it, consider it character marks. Kinda like running a circular saw blade into the extension wing. :eek: I heard about this guy in MI that did that once.

Joe

[Rob Hermann]

Joe is absolutely correct, wood does not do well from a humid shop. I have this problem very very badly. As far as my table tops though I use the magnetic covers I purchased at Woodcraft. With semi-regular waxing and keeping the magnetic sheet on, my rust problems are not too bad at all. The wood however, different story. Haven't worked that out, yet.

[Bob Wingard]

Years ago, on a whim, I applied a coat of poly to my BS table. To this day, it looks good, and doesn't seem to ever be bothered by rust. I can only assume the poly filled the pores of the cast iron, and that is keeping the rust at bay.

[John Mark Lane]

Years ago, on a whim, I applied a coat of poly to my BS table. To this day, it looks good, and doesn't seem to ever be bothered by rust. I can only assume the poly filled the pores of the cast iron, and that is keeping the rust at bay.


You mean plain old clear polyurethane? You painted the cast iron table with polyurethane? That's interesting. I would have expected it to peel and make a mess. Did you prep the surface in any way?

[Jason White]

Don't paint your table. That's a whole maintenance nightmare in itself!

Try using "Slip-It." Get the wipe-on kind that comes in a can (not the spray). It's basically a kind of silicone-free gel that doesn't dry hard.

You just wipe it on. No need to buff afterward. Keeps the table slick and rust free. Both Rockler and Woodcraft stock it. I smear it on my tablesaw top, blade and fence every couple of weeks. No rust yet!

Jason



I give up... I have already coated my bandsaw table with 2 coats of Johnsons Paste Wax, thick coats, and I am seeing faint signs of rust already(I cannot tell if thats just some that I never got up, but if any more accumulates then this will apply.) I was wondering if it would be possible to just paint it, and be done with it!

I realize I am being a bit anal about the rust, but in the moisture of my workshop/garage, it seems to be the only solution I can see...(I really dont feel like putting another $200 on a dehumidifier.)

How much would a powder coat cost?

Would this leave a smoothe enough surface?

I havent been in my garage in the past two days(eye is still dialated, so I am sensitive to light.) But this really is no fun to be derusting every couple days..... Dang.... darned global warming causing all this moisture.... :D

-brendan

[Jason White]

I've actually thought of doing that myself.

Hmm....


Years ago, on a whim, I applied a coat of poly to my BS table. To this day, it looks good, and doesn't seem to ever be bothered by rust. I can only assume the poly filled the pores of the cast iron, and that is keeping the rust at bay.

[Bob Vavricka]

My clothes dryer used to vent into my garage, I mean shop, before I extended the vent to outside. During that time I found that just keeping the saw top covered did a good job of keeping it from rusting. It didn't have to be anything heavy, just an old bed sheet seemed to work fine. Try a tool cover of some kind and see it it helps. I would still use some coating--wax, etc.
Bob V.

[Van Huskey]

I am fascinated by the polyurethane idea, I would have thought it would have peeled and become a nightmare. I do like the idea of checking and monitoring the RH. If it was more than one piece of equipment and the RH is high I would suggest a dehumidifier but then he would be using his parents electricity as well, would be worth it for a shop full of CI, not sure if it is for 1.5 square feet of CI.

[Ryan Tremaine]

Don't paint your table. That's a whole maintenance nightmare in itself!

Try using "Slip-It." Get the wipe-on kind that comes in a can (not the spray). It's basically a kind of silicone-free gel that doesn't dry hard.

You just wipe it on. No need to buff afterward. Keeps the table slick and rust free. Both Rockler and Woodcraft stock it. I smear it on my tablesaw top, blade and fence every couple of weeks. No rust yet!

Jason
+1 on the Slip-It. I keep a rag thats pretty well saturated with the stuff and wipe down all my cast iron when I'm done for the weekend. Had the same can for about 2 years and I'm still not 1/2 way through it.

[Brendan Plavis]

Much to my dismay, I went down to the shop, to find a light coating of rust on the sucker(in lue of more describing words.) I mean I literally put a coat of wax on it less than a week ago. I like the polyeurthane idea, since I have a quart of it in the shop, but can anyone say this works.

I am up to my eyeballs in frustration... I first went in only to smell that heartbreaking smell of rust. I really dont want to keep buying rust remover/prevention products, since they seem to be rather pricy. I would rather something that is a once a year thing...

I know... its like mining for gold in your back yard.... but like I said, could the poly work?

-Brendan

[Doug Carpenter]

My clothes dryer used to vent into my garage, I mean shop, before I extended the vent to outside. During that time I found that just keeping the saw top covered did a good job of keeping it from rusting. It didn't have to be anything heavy, just an old bed sheet seemed to work fine. Try a tool cover of some kind and see it it helps. I would still use some coating--wax, etc.
Bob V.


I'm so glad I'm not the only lazy one here!

If you are like me it isn't a simple fix. I am getting a booster fan that will sense humidity and turn on to help the dyer vent. Otherwise it takes two cycle to dry clothes.

When it is really humid of super cold I open the door to try to help otherwise the water goes right for the tools!

[Chip Lindley]

Brendan, unless your shop area is dripping wet, covering cast iron with plastic sheet should keep rust from forming so fast. I suspect moisture is condensing out of the air onto the cooler CI surface. Make a cover to fit over the table and see if it doesn't make a difference.

Just a thot: Has your CI top come in contact with anything containing acid? Once upon a time I had a gallon of Muratic acid in the shop. The fumes from a sealed jug rusted everything around it, and etched the concrete floor *white* underneath the jug. Acid residue can be neutralized with baking soda, as on car battery terminals.

[Carroll Courtney]

I can't tell which part of the world you live in,so if its the rainy season in Costa Rica I would give up.But,if its rust only on that machine(in the states),then it my be something else.If you really want to do away w/ it then purchase you a small appliance lite bulb and install it in a good service drop lite and place it under neath the table.I knew a guy who would place afew christmas lites in the cabinet of his saw to help keep the table dry and rust free----Carroll

[Raymond Fries]

Although I now have a dehumidifier in my garage/workshop, the Bioshield seemed to stop rusting on my tools before I added the dehumidifier. It is awesome stuff.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Poly seems interesting..... The only down sides I can see is wood may not slide as well on poly vice a nice smooth CI surface. I'm assuming an oil based poly? Water based would create rust, IMO.

Give the Boeshield a shot. It works for me, and I live in the rust capital of the US. Salt air and high humidity all year. I can safely say I've never had a day less than 45% RH. Cheaper than buying and paying for a dehuidifier.

[Van Huskey]

and I live in the rust capital of the US. Salt air and high humidity all year. I can safely say I've never had a day less than 45% RH. .

I didn't know you lived in Southern Louisiana... :D

I would cry for you, living in paradise and all, but that would just make my iron rust even more.


This thread reminds me how much it hurts me to take cosmoline off, it is like pulling a Pearl Harbor on the rust gods, you may then win every battle you fight with them BUT in the end they WILL win the war.

[Darin Higginbotham]

I used johnsons when i had a humid shop and was constantly fighting rust. Went to Bioshield and then a coating of Briwax and bingo no more rust, worked for me, might try if all this other stuff fails ya. Good luck against the beast.

[Brendan Plavis]

How about cooking oil.... a friend of mine who is a woodshop teacher was telling me that most people use oil?!?! Now I busted on him because that is usually what you do with culinary tools... but never heard of it working with tool tools.... Could this work? Now I dont exactly want my wood smelling like olives(this doesnt sound right does it?) but, could it work? what about baking it on? Bad idea?

-Bren

[Brendan Plavis]

I just went down... I put my hand down, only to get a rust coloured hand.... dangit.. what gives....

[Brendan Plavis]

I tried scrubbing it, and it sure is a PITA to clean now... Anyone have luck with evaporust? I figure that at this rate it might be easier just to get something I can soak the 50lb table in..... Scour the hole thing squeaky clean... :D (not to mention I want to clean up a bunch of our hand tools that are as darkly rusted as a man hole cover...) But i wanted to get the advice of the creek that always flows true... since the stuff sure is expensive(a gallon is about $20)(at Harbour freight..) This is what it says:

Removes even heavy rust completely
Easy to use, just soak parts in room temperature solution
Requires no special equipment
No acids, bases, solvents or other toxic ingredients
Will not harm unrusted steel, safe on other metals
Biodegradable�can be disposed of safely into sewer
One gallon derusts up to 300 pounds of heavily rusted steel
Will not affect plastic, PVC, Viton and most paints

Will it harm unrusted CI? Will it work on CI? That is my main unsurity. I would rather not use a caustic navel jelly since, it is said to look horrid when done... but, I really dislike all of the rust(After this, I will be buffing in about a pound of wax and covering....)

-Brendan

[Andrew Nemeth]

Brendan,

I just had a thought, is it possible you have something fuming into you shop? Vapors from many chemicals will oxidize metals VERY rapidly.

-Andrew

[Brendan Plavis]

Something fuming.... not sure... we do keep everything in there(I removed the gas can....since it was directly under my room... :eek:) but I dont think any oxidizers... I will look in the morn....

[Myk Rian]

Brendan,

I just had a thought, is it possible you have something fuming into you shop? Vapors from many chemicals will oxidize metals VERY rapidly.

-Andrew
That's a good question.

Brendan;
How about moving Grandpas' TS into the basement, and your saw into the garage?

[Brendan Plavis]

That's a good question.

Brendan;
How about moving Grandpas' TS into the basement, and your saw into the garage?

I dont follow... my saw is in the garage.. why move his TS?

Not to mention it would have to go into the laundry room(not a problem since its aluminum) since our basement is finished.

[Myk Rian]

I dont follow... my saw is in the garage.. why move his TS?

Not to mention it would have to go into the laundry room(not a problem since its aluminum) since our basement is finished.
OK. I thought it was in the basement. My bad.

[Brendan Plavis]

OK. I thought it was in the basement. My bad.

I wish it were in the basement..... then it wouldnt rust as much... climate control....

[David Prince]

You have to deal with the humidity issue first. Otherwise it is just a losing battle on all fronts. From projects, wood storage, all tools, and any metal.

[Todd Reinbold]

clean off the table , then apply some "T9 Boeshield' I've never been very impressed with paste wax as a rust preventor. I put it on to help keep things moving smoothly, but the "T9 boeshield" is the best thing I've ever used as a rust preventer hands down. give it a shot. It actually was made to prevent rust!

[John Downey]

I have a 1950's Rockwell jointer with some serious pits in the bed from being stored outdoors at some point in its life (looks like a tarp blew off one end). Doesn't affect function in any way shape or form. Waxing is for ease of use, not rust prevention in my experience - others may disagree. If you have rust build up between uses, give it a once over with steel wool just before use and wax it, then don't worry about it until you use it again.

However, if you must try to coat the top, clean it with acetone or other solvent several times, then use a thin drying oil called Penetrol. Should be available in the paint department of hardware stores or the borg, its typically used for getting oil enamels to flow better.

Rather than powder coating, you could also have it chrome plated :D

[Neil Brooks]

Couldn't you toss a Harbor Freight Mover's Blanket over it, after use ??

In theory, that's a BETTER method than a poly sheet that doesn't breathe.

If it's THAT damp ... you could throw the blanket in the dryer, from time to time....

[Howard Acheson]

Let's just start off with a fact: There is no treatment that will prevent cast iron from rusting short of completely encasing the top in an epoxy type encapsulation. All you can do it slow it down. Any treatment will require re-application periodically. Paste wax is not particularly water-vapor resistant. In fact water-vapor will migrate through within a day or so.

Boeshield T-9 is an excellent metal protecturant when used per the directions. It's only drawback is that is does not leave a particularly slippery surface. Most folks find that applying a coat of paste wax on top of the Boeshield will restore the slipperiness. Even this product will need to be renewed periodically.

Finally, I would not recommend any film type finish or coating. It will ultimately chip and be abraded away leaving you with a bigger problem.

Just resolve yourself to periodically tending to your tools. They all need cleaning, lubricating and alignment/adjustment from time to time.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Boeshield T-9 is an excellent metal protecturant when used per the directions. It's only drawback is that is does not leave a particularly slippery surface.

TopCoat offers great protection and provides a slippery surface.

[Josiah Bartlett]

If you really can't stop it from rusting, you could paint it and then install a melamine or phenolic auxiliary table over the top. Then you get a nice, slippery, disposable surface that doesn't rust.

[Jim Rimmer]

Brendan, you said in one post that you placed your hand on the table and it came up rust colored. That is, IMHO, a tremendous amount of rust on a brand new tool. Someone already mentioned muriatic acid. I would start looking for something like that. Unless you live in a rain forest, a new tool would have some rust spots but not so bad that it comes off on your hand. There is something other than just humidity going on here.

BTW, personally, I would not paint or or poly the table. There's a good reason manufacturers paint everything on the tool except the table top.