It's official: New 1.75HP cabinet saw from Sawstop

[Victor Robinson]

Van's little birdie was right on. And it came a little sooner than I was expecting.

Head over to SS's homepage to see a teaser for the 1.75HP version of the PCS, which runs on 110V.

No indications what it will be priced at. Available later this summer. Having just purchased a 3hp PCS, I'll be a little bummed if it checks in under $2k because I might have gone that route. But based on the photo on the website, it appears it doesn't have the dust collecting blade guard.

EDIT: Dust collecting blade guard is an option (std on 3hp PCS).

[Michael MacDonald]

says it has a quick release ZCI. hmmm. wonder if that is compatible with the contractor saw.

[Chris Kelble]

How weird. I was just looking at their site yesterday and that wasn't there...

Now, I just need to figure out where to get the money.... :D

I'd be seriously surprised if it prices much less than $2500. Looks like the only difference between it and the 3hp version is the motor size and that the new blade guard isn't standard.

Wonder if you can get the 1.75 hp one and later upgrade to the 3hp motor... ?

[Prashun Patel]

I believe it's just a smaller motor than the PCS, but contains all the same accessories, including the blade guard.

My vote's that the contractor saw's going to be phased out.

Personally, I think they should just make this machine built-to-order like a Dell:

HP,
Wing material,
Blade Guard,
Voltage,
Rail size,
Mobile base,
etc.

But stick with one 'chassis'.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I'm betting it'll have other mfgr's stickers on it soon.
.

[tyler mckenzie]

i wouldn't want anything smaller then 3hp in a cabinet saw.

[Chris Kelble]

i wouldn't want anything smaller then 3hp in a cabinet saw.

I agree, but in my little basement shop, I don't have 220 and it would be difficult to add due to the way my basement is laid out

[Joe Chritz]

I'm betting it'll have other mfgr's stickers on it soon.
.

I'm with him.

Joe

[Mike Zilis]

says it has a quick release ZCI. hmmm. wonder if that is compatible with the contractor saw.

I've got the Contractor SS and a couple of months ago I purchased the quick release ZCI and dropped it right in. Works like a champ and much more convenient than removing/replacing the screw every time I need to open it up.

Additionally, the table top dust collection / blade guard that comes with the PCS is also compatible with the Contractor as long as you have the quick release ZCI. The problem here is that SS isn't offering the new PCS blade guard as a stand alone product for sale yet. You can only get one with the PCS saw.

My SS dealer tells me (and I've heard speculation here as well) that SS was trying to make the new blade guard available for sale in the first quarter of this year but obviously is running behind schedule on that one.

Mike

[Dan Friedrichs]

i wouldn't want anything smaller then 3hp in a cabinet saw.

+1. I just don't see how "less power" is a selling point...

Are there actually people willing to spend $3k on a large, heavy, non-portable saw, that will probably last them 20+ years, but are unwilling to spend $100 or $200 to have a 220V outlet installed? :confused:

[Prashun Patel]

but are unwilling to spend $100 or $200 to have a 220V outlet installed? :confused:

For many people (including me) having this professionally done can be closer to $1000.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I think in many peoples' situations who don't have 220 available, it will cost more than $200 to have it installed.

I don't see them phasing out the contractor saw though- their products have a lot to offer to professionals, who carry a high insurance burden for their employees. Many of those professionals need the portability. Plus, sawstop has invested R&D in that model, so they might as well continue to sell it.

I'm not sure how I feel about the 1.75HP. In my mind, people shouldn't be willing to pay all that much more for this cabinet saw than they would for the contractor saw. The real benefits are only better dust collection and a more favorable trunnion mounting arrangement.

[Ryan Welch]

For many people (including me) having this professionally done can be closer to $1000.

$1000...........I think I am in the wrong buisness. Running a 220 outlet is pretty easy. Even if you have to fish wire the entire length of your house (not terribly difficult) you would still spend less than a couple hundred bucks. Maybe I have just got lucky but, in all the houses I have lived in but, I have always been able to easily get to a basement or attic to run the wire.

[Victor Robinson]

$1000...........I think I am in the wrong buisness. Running a 220 outlet is pretty easy. Even if you have to fish wire the entire length of your house (not terribly difficult) you would still spend less than a couple hundred bucks. Maybe I have just got lucky but, in all the houses I have lived in but, I have always been able to easily get to a basement or attic to run the wire.

I looked into having this professionally done before I decided to do it myself. All I needed done was to run wire from a JBox to the receptacle location (about 15-20ft of wire) with the last 8 ft of the run in conduit. In an exposed garage.

Quote: $200.

Had I needed a whole new circuit with a new breaker or a longer run with less access I can only imagine the damage, but my point is that for some of us the cost of 220V can be quite significant.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Van's little birdie was right on. And it came a little sooner than I was expecting.

Head over to SS's homepage to see a teaser for the 1.75HP version of the PCS, which runs on 110V.



Realistically..... This is aimed squarely at the hobbyist who's scared to DEATH of a table saw. 1.75 HP will rip-cut through anything but maybe 6/4 white oak or hard decking stock.

This is the perfect entry point for Delta, Jet, H.D. and Lowes, etc., to start their duffer craftspeople out on when they have a doubt about their abilities, but need to rip pine, poplar and red oak on only an occasional basis.

This isn't meant to be a production machine and will be priced accordingly.
.

[Dan Friedrichs]

For many people (including me) having this professionally done can be closer to $1000.

I imagine there are situations where this is true - like if your shop is in a very far away outbuilding and only a 110 line is available, and you'd have to trench for a new line. But for anything else? $1k is crazy... How could it ever take >10hrs to install a single outlet?

I think Mitchell has it right, though - this is for the DIY crowd that knows nothing, but wants to build something they saw Norm do. Adding an outlet might be just enough "trouble" to discourage them from buying a saw.

[Dennis McGarry]

Now if they would just make a benchtop model for those of us who do not need a full size cabinet saw

[Mark Smith, too]

Realistically..... This is aimed squarely at the hobbyist who's scared to DEATH of a table saw. 1.75 HP will rip-cut through anything but maybe 6/4 white oak or hard decking stock.

Really? From the video it seems aimed squarely at the professionals who want a job-site saw and want the injury protection. Not sure how big that market is but the portable with safety technology group is probably pretty big. I think anyone with a crew will be giving it some serious thought even if it comes in close to 2 grand.

Not that some of us duffers couldn't make use of it, too.

[Dennis McGarry]

Really? From the video it seems aimed squarely at the professionals who want a job-site saw and want the injury protection. Not sure how big that market is but the portable with safety technology group is probably pretty big. I think anyone with a crew will be giving it some serious thought even if it comes in close to 2 grand.

Not that some of us duffers couldn't make use of it, too.

Job site? Am I missing something here? It looks like the same chassis as the 3hp and that doesnt seem to be to portable..

[Mitchell Andrus]

It's not a job-site saw. It weighs 350 + pounds. The contractor model is their portable model.
.

[Paul Ryan]

I don't see what the obsession is with 3hp, 5hp. You know how convenient it is for someone to be able to move their saw and plug it into any 110 outlet. For some reason unless you have a 3hp saw you dont have a saw. Come on. I have never heard of anyone with a sawstop contractor complaining that they don't have enough power. A 1.75hp saw with a good sharp blade will still cut 8/4 hard maple with ease. It may require a slower feed rate but it will easily cut it. This saw wont sell as well as the 3hp saw but it will still sell very well. For those that want a cabinet saw and don't want to mess with putting 220 outlets in, or those that rent and cannot install 220 this is the perfect saw.

Don't get me wrong 3hp has it's advantages but you can make anything you want with a 1.75 saw. This will be an excellent saw and to me makes perfect sense to add to your line up.

I wonder if this is the last table saw they will add for a while. Will they start concentrating on other tools or will they some how try to find a way to market a $500 bench top saw?

[Mark Smith, too]

It's not a job-site saw. It weighs 350 + pounds. The contractor model is their portable model.
.
Are we talking the same saw? The web site shows it available with a job-site roll around stand. That is featured prominently in the video. It is also available with a fixed stand. The job-site version can't use the 52 inch rails and probably wouldn't be outfitted with the optional cast iron wings. Maybe I am missing something?

[Neil Brooks]

Paul Ryan-

[Said with a big smile on my face....]

Then I presume you ride an H-D 883???


:D

[Victor Robinson]

Are we talking the same saw? The web site shows it available with a job-site roll around stand. That is featured prominently in the video. It is also available with a fixed stand. The job-site version can't use the 52 inch rails and probably wouldn't be outfitted with the optional cast iron wings. Maybe I am missing something?

Mark, you're looking at the contractor saw. It has been around for a few years now - it was the second saw added to the Sawstop lineup after the original Sawstop (which is now the ICS).

We're discussing the PCS (Professional Cabinet Saw), which up to this point was 3HP/220V but now comes in a new 1.75HP/120V flavor.

[mickey cassiba]

I'm betting it'll have other mfgr's stickers on it soon.
.
And a pretty price tag too...
Mick

[tyler mckenzie]

I don't see what the obsession is with 3hp, 5hp. You know how convenient it is for someone to be able to move there saw and plug it into any 110 outlet. For some reason unless you have a 3hp saw you dont have a saw. Come on.

obsession? I don't know about that, but a bigger motor will give you better results.

[Milind Patil]

I disagree. It totally depends what you are trying to do. I did my own 220V wiring in my garage two car garage and spent over $600 just for material and switchgear. If I had hired a professional, the total cost including labor would be in 4 figures. I added a subpanel and 8 new circuit breakers (4 x 220V and 4 x 110V). Ran a AWG4 cable from main panel in single car garage to sub panel in two car garage, total distance 100ft routed through attic. The cable was the most expensive part (close to $400).

[Mitchell Andrus]

Are we talking the same saw? The web site shows it available with a job-site roll around stand. That is featured prominently in the video. It is also available with a fixed stand. The job-site version can't use the 52 inch rails and probably wouldn't be outfitted with the optional cast iron wings. Maybe I am missing something?

http://www.sawstop.com/procabinet/procab_compare.php

Even with the smallest table, the 120v, 1.75hp PCS is still a hefty beast.
.

[Van Huskey]

Even if running a 220V outlet was free, there are a lot of hobby users that CAN'T add 220V. People who rent are just one example and that is quite a few. I did woodworking all through grad school and had nothing but 120V.

I don't expect much price difference, it will be for people who would buy the 3hp PCS if they had a place to run it. I am curious if adding the 3hp motor later would e a simple switch, if so that would be an excellent upgrade path, would be nice if they have given this thought and engineering.

[Geoff Barry]

I think Van has it right - this will be perfect for renters who don't want a contractor's saw. I know this is an attractive saw to me.

I hope you're right about a later upgrade - it looks like it's simply a different motor option on the PCS?

[Mark Smith, too]

Mark, you're looking at the contractor saw. It has been around for a few years now - it was the second saw added to the Sawstop lineup after the original Sawstop (which is now the ICS).

We're discussing the PCS (Professional Cabinet Saw), which up to this point was 3HP/220V but now comes in a new 1.75HP/120V flavor.

I knew something was wrong. I agree that's no job site saw.

[Michael MacDonald]

My vote's that the contractor saw's going to be phased out.

I don't know... probably the saving grace for that model will be the job site mobile base... can't really wheel a PCS into a pickup truck and take it to the construction project.

On a separate note, I didn't know that the quick release ZCI was available! It seems like just a month ago where there was conjecture on this very web site that one was in development... hmmm. I am off to get one!

[Prashun Patel]

Can I get a show of hands of how many people are carting their contractor saws - specifically their sawstops - around to the jobsite?

Every 'contractor' saw I've seen on site has been a benchtop saw. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but it seems Sawstop would do better to make a 1.75hp hybrid with good dust collection that fits 110v, phase out the contractor saw, and then introduce a 'budget' benchtop version that is truly mobile - something to compete with the Bosch 4100. That's where you'll probably save the most fingers anyway...

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Can I get a show of hands of how many people are carting their contractor saws - specifically their sawstops - around to the jobsite?

Every 'contractor' saw I've seen on site has been a benchtop saw. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but it seems Sawstop would do better to make a 1.75hp hybrid with good dust collection that fits 110v, phase out the contractor saw, and then introduce a 'budget' benchtop version that is truly mobile - something to compete with the Bosch 4100. That's where you'll probably save the most fingers anyway...

I think this makes sense on many level...brand building at the top of the line and then trickling down. Building out the line of table saws. But, I do seem to recall that SS had said they were working on other tools in for the shop, like say a band saw. Selfishly I have been waiting to hear what's next.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Can I get a show of hands of how many people are carting their contractor saws - specifically their sawstops - around to the jobsite?

Every 'contractor' saw I've seen on site has been a benchtop saw. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but it seems Sawstop would do better to make a 1.75hp hybrid with good dust collection that fits 110v, phase out the contractor saw, and then introduce a 'budget' benchtop version that is truly mobile - something to compete with the Bosch 4100. That's where you'll probably save the most fingers anyway...

I think the unit's weight is not going downward anytime soon. In order to be reusable after a 'stop', it needs to be very robust. That means HEAVY. In the slow motion videos, it looks like everything twists and shakes. Anything built like the underside of my Unisaw would be a one-stop throw-away.

A benchtop unit is possible, but it'll be very heavy compared to a Rigid or Makita of a similar size and stand pretty tall due to the need to articulate the belt drive.
.

[Neal Clayton]

says it has a quick release ZCI. hmmm. wonder if that is compatible with the contractor saw.

must be missing something, how can any zero clearance insert be different from another?

it's just something flat with rounded ends that drops into a hole on 4 set screws.

[Mike Zilis]

must be missing something, how can any zero clearance insert be different from another?

it's just something flat with rounded ends that drops into a hole on 4 set screws.

On older saws, that is exactly right. But the newer designs that include an integrated riving knife with the blade guard have a dependency on the table insert.

Mike

[Neal Clayton]

On older saws, that is exactly right. But the newer designs that include an integrated riving knife with the blade guard have a dependency on the table insert.

Mike

gotcha. never owned a saw with a riving knife so that didn't quite make sense.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Can I get a show of hands of how many people are carting their contractor saws - specifically their sawstops - around to the jobsite?

Every 'contractor' saw I've seen on site has been a benchtop saw. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but it seems Sawstop would do better to make a 1.75hp hybrid with good dust collection that fits 110v, phase out the contractor saw, and then introduce a 'budget' benchtop version that is truly mobile - something to compete with the Bosch 4100. That's where you'll probably save the most fingers anyway...

I think that's a good thought, but I don't know that it would work. I imagine that the forces caused by the brake firing would not only ruin a saw that small and lightweight (as mentioned), it could throw the saw clear off the bench.

The current Sawstop contractor saw has many configurations. One of which is stamped steel wings, and a rolling cart rather than the legs. I would consider that pretty portable...

[Chris Kennedy]

Even if running a 220V outlet was free, there are a lot of hobby users that CAN'T add 220V. People who rent are just one example and that is quite a few. I did woodworking all through grad school and had nothing but 120V.

This is exactly why I have a hybrid. I started woodworking while renting, and couldn't run 220, so there was really no choice. Moreover, my dad had a 110V Craftsman contractor and he cut all manner of stuff with it, so I wasn't particularly worried.

I'm no longer renting, but I shudder to think how much it would cost me to run 220. I don't know exactly what it entails, but my circuit box is full, and I can't spare any of the the ones I have -- so I imagine a new box will have to be installed. Also, my shop is in an outbuilding at the back of my lot -- running the wire would be a lot of work.

To me, it just means that if/when I go up to 220, I am going to have to budget to have the 220 line run. In the meantime, none of the work I have done has ever bogged my 1.75, so I am not particularly worried.

Cheers,

Chris

[Victor Robinson]

I think that's a good thought, but I don't know that it would work. I imagine that the forces caused by the brake firing would not only ruin a saw that small and lightweight (as mentioned), it could throw the saw clear off the bench.

The current Sawstop contractor saw has many configurations. One of which is stamped steel wings, and a rolling cart rather than the legs. I would consider that pretty portable...

Good point, Peter. Everyone who I've seen with a contractor saw gets the cast wings and longer rails (at least 36").

I've actually never seen anyone with a lighter CS with job-site cart (a setup that won't be AS portable as a benchtop but certainly moreso than the CS I'm accustomed to seeing). I wonder if all that's needed to the contractor saw is a little rebranding/remarketing, a little lightening, and a slight price reduction.

[Victor Robinson]

There's a price on the website now:

"Starting at $2,299"

[Will Overton]

http://www.hermance.com/sawstop-pcs175.asp


Price starts at $2299


I will be buying one, not because I can't run 220, but because I don't need it. I worked (hobby) with a 1hp contractor saw for 25+ years. For the last five years I've used a 22124 (1.75hp) and that is all I need. I know a lot of folks think everyone needs at least 3hp, but after 30+ years I think I know my requirements.

I never concern myself with resale value as I give all my old tools away. The zipcode saw will go to a neighbor.

With the 36" fence it will have the same footprint as the zipcode saw. SS has the fence rail shifted 6 inches further to the right than the Craftsman, leaving 12" instead of 18" to the left of the blade.

I'll be getting these options;

Blade Guard w/ Integrated Dust Collection - $139.00
Integrated Mobile Base - $199 (http://shopping.hermance.com/catalog/SawStop-Professional-Cabinet-Saws/Mobile-Base-SawStop-Professional-Cabinet-Saw)
30" Outfeed Table - $99 (http://shopping.hermance.com/catalog/SawStop-Professional-Cabinet-Saws/SawStop-30-Outfeed-Table)

[Steve Southwood]

So, for around $3000 you get a 110 saw, with good bells and whistles? I'm not so sure about this. I just don't see a good deal. Maybe I am wrong, been wrong before.

[Will Overton]

Steve,
I didn't say it was a good deal. I've reached a point in my life where I look for what I want. As long as I can afford it, I don't care if something else, that isn't my first choice, would be cheaper.

[Steve Southwood]

Will, I understand. Wasn't trying to start a big scuffle. I just can't see it. Everyone's case is different. I can pull 220 anywhere I need it. But if I was going to spend that much, it would be on a new Uni. I hope you do get it and give a good report. You never know, I might change my mind.

[Will Overton]

Steve,

No scuffle. I wouldn't even try to recommend this configuration for anyone else, it just works for me.

[Van Huskey]

First there isn't a SS that just looking at it from a utility point of view that is a good "deal". But I don't get the whole idea that this is stupid, for some people it makes perfect sense. Its like me saying "why would you get a 220V machine when you can get a 440v only machine with more capability", oh you say you can't get 440v where you live (since you don't live in a factory), some people are in the same situation with 220v unless their significant other is cool with an extension cord running from the laundry room.

I also figure Mr. Gass and company seem to have made a lot of correct business decisions and I can't see betting against him.

[Neal Clayton]

yeah but there's alot of difference in less than 2hp and 5. alot more difference than there is between 5 and 7.5. i've never been able to trip the 220 breaker on my 5hp cabinet saw, i have tripped breakers with sub 2hp saws in other people's shops quite often.

there's also alot of difference in 3 phase power and 220 single phase. 220 is nothing but two 110s. everyone has that already, unless they're all gas on their appliances and even then i would think it rare for a house to have no 220 lines at all.

[Steve Southwood]

Just for the record, I didn't say it was stupid. I think the whole SS thing is great tech. Just not for me at this time.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'm betting it'll have other mfgr's stickers on it soon.
.

I'd like to go back to this comment- I find the idea interesting. Can you elaborate?

Are you thinking somebody's going to buy Sawstop?

I wish there was market/sales data on table saws we could reference. I would love to see how Sawstop has cut into other mfgr's market shares. Overall, I'm willing to bet that there are many competitors who now wish they had taken Mr. Gass more seriously back in the day.

[Al Burton]

220 is nothing but two 110s. everyone has that already, unless they're all gas on their appliances and even then i would think it rare for a house to have no 220 lines at all.

Technically I have never seen a house where 220 at the box was not the norm but it is not entirely unheard of to not have any circuits 220. I was suprised at my current house but there is not a single 22O circuit coming out of the box because everything is gas.

Oddly I've ran 4 220 circuits in my barn but still have none in the house. Even doing it myself adding in a another circuit would be a major undertaking because the basement, garage and even basement ceiling is drywalled. The sad part is the house has 300 watt service which is overkill. If I were to use my basement garage as a shop it would be a royal pain to add circuit even when I can do it myself and have an elcectrican in the family for when I get stuck.

Back on topic though, I can see a real need for this saw, I just wish is was priced as 2200 fully decked out instead of starting out there. The contractor saw decked out is around 2300 which I think should be closer to 1600 but that's just me.

[chris dub]

I'm glad they released it. I like to have all of my tools be wired consistently. And having three of the biggest issues using a TS addressed (blade safety, kickback and Dust collection) is a solid package. If you rent, move frequently wiring 220 can be prohibitive. $600-$700 for the cost of the saw + wiring and labor is not an insignificant cost. And if you move it grows. And for many hobbyist may never need the extra 1.25HP. Its nice to have options for many situations.

[Brian Muecke]

I wish there was market/sales data on table saws we could reference. I would love to see how Sawstop has cut into other mfgr's market shares.
my woodcraft says they sell more sawstops than all other brands combined. At the local wood show here last month, the sawstop rep said that as of 2009, they are #1 in sales in their segment, which i presume to include powermatic and the new unisaw.

[Will Overton]

Anybody heard any rumors or fact about actual shipping date?

[Curt Harms]

my woodcraft says they sell more sawstops than all other brands combined. At the local wood show here last month, the sawstop rep said that as of 2009, they are #1 in sales in their segment, which i presume to include powermatic and the new unisaw.

I gotta think Delta/WMH(Powermatic & Jet) and probably the Asian manufacturers are making like ducks--(placid above the water but paddling like crazy underneath) trying to come up with Saw Stop-like technology. I don't know what the insurance implications are but I suspect it wouldn't take long for cheaper insurance rates to offset the price difference between New Unisaws/PM2000's/Jet Xactas etc. and SawStops.

[Mike Henderson]

Regarding the cost to have an electrician do anything in your house:

Some years back, my wife wanted an outlet moved (we were having some built-ins installed and they would have covered the old outlet) but I was very busy at work so I told her to call an electrician and see what it would cost. She did, and when he told her it would be about $500 she said, "No way! I'll get my husband to do it." It took me longer to patch the wall board than it did to move the outlet.

I did hide the splice in the wall, which is not code, so I don't know what the electrician had in mind to do to get around that problem. The new outlet is about 3-4' from the original outlet.

So I can see that an electrician might charge up to $1,000 to run 240 to a basement.

Mike

[David Helm]

I disagree. It totally depends what you are trying to do. I did my own 220V wiring in my garage two car garage and spent over $600 just for material and switchgear. If I had hired a professional, the total cost including labor would be in 4 figures. I added a subpanel and 8 new circuit breakers (4 x 220V and 4 x 110V). Ran a AWG4 cable from main panel in single car garage to sub panel in two car garage, total distance 100ft routed through attic. The cable was the most expensive part (close to $400).

It really depends on when you did it. The price of copper has come down dramatically lately. I just recently did a major rewiring of my shop and office. Three 240 circuits, all the wires in my office are armored (mice problem), 3 30 amp 240 breakers, several hundred feet of 12-2 and 10-2; all for about $400 in materials. That included outlets, switches, cover plates, etc.

[John Neel]

Anyone who can't do the work himself and receives a quote that seems too high should try getting a few more quotes. Last week a plumber quoted me $1400.00 for work that I then decided to do myself. So far I have $15.00 worth of material and less than one hour work. Another $25.00 in material and about 2 hours work should finish it up. There is another cost: the worry that I will make an error in my daughter's condo and have the whole building angry at her if I should flood it. That's why I called the plumber in the first place, but I wasn't worried as much as he thought.

Electricians have also given me some amazingly high estimates: one estimated a new box at $1700 but I had it done by another company for $700. It is important to get several estimates.