Help With Large Bandsaw Selection

[Steve Dietrich]

Fellow Woodworkers:
I could use some assistance in selecting a large bandsaw.
The blogs I’ve read don’t seem to address my particular needs or else I'm concerned that some of the info may be out of date. Nor do manufacturer and dealer sites give the info I need, if I can even find the ones I need. I haven't found FWW or other reviews of these big saws. I care less about look and feel than I do about ease of blade changes, ease of tensioning, ease of guide adjustment, whether the saw is going to flex out of adjustment under tension, and overall durability and performance. I assume that any of the saws I discuss below will have more than enough power for my needs, especially with the right blade.
I am concentrating on making 18th Century American furniture with wide board tops and sides, including veneers.
I have several local Walnut planks that will yield 18-20 inch wide planks and crotch, which I would like to slice into 1/16” to 1/8” inch veneers.
I have an 8” jointer and happily use it to flatten 16” by flipping the board. I also am not averse to flattening one side by using hand planes. A wider jointer may be in the more distant future.
I recently ordered a 20” thickness planer to replace my entry level 13 incher and am looking for a compatible bandsaw.
I have a Grizzly G0555 “Ultimate” 14” bandsaw with riser and the tall Grizzly re-saw fence, which I love (the fence, that is). I also bought it as an entry level saw planning to replace it when the time had come, and the time has come. Limitations with that saw have given me things to consider in my new saw. BTW, I’m very happy with my Grizzlly G1023 table saw, 8” jointer, and dust collector, not to mention Grizzly’s GREAT customer service.
I plan to stay under $4K.
1.I live in Fredericksburg, VA. Where can I go to get intimate with any of the saws I discuss below or others that I should consider? I’m willing to take a long day trip (VA, PA, DE, MD, parts of NC). All of the relatively local stores that I'm familiar with cater to the big brands - Delta, PM, & Jet.
2.Having a hard time finding contacts for some of these saws, any contacts - would certainly like to keep shipping costs reasonable – i.e., not paying to ship from CA). How can I buy an Agazanni? Is there a way to buy a MiniMax other than the MM-USA site?
3. I want to be able to resaw 20” veneers – 1/16” to 1/8” is fine with me. I’m not looking for paper thin.
4.Easy blade changes – I’m tired of fighting with the tension that won’t fully release on my current bandsaw and the blades that won’t easily slip on and off, tension that is difficult and time consuming to adjust, fussy guides that require painstaking adjusting for each blade change and each time I change the height (yes, I’ve tried shimming the riser block), and a table lock that can’t withstand the weight of some planks that I’ve resawn. I don't think this saw is worth upgrading with Carter parts.
5.I would like to be able to easily and quickly change blades between a resawing blade and a blade for cutting relatively tight curves (ogee bracket feet and table aprons, for example).
a.I may be willing to keep my Grizzly for cutting curves (it can take as small as a 1/8” blade), but it would be nice to cut curves on a wider table and with a larger throat.
6.I want to be able to obtain the blades I will need (narrow for curves, wide and maybe carbide for resawing, and intermediate for ripping and multipurpose tasks, etc.).
7.I have about 8’ 10” overhead clearance in my basement shop (about 9 1/2' between the floor joists overhead. I do have double French doors to get the saw through and could back a small truck or trailer (not 18 wheeler) up to the door for offloading. I need to be able to talk with someone about delivery (lift gate, etc.).
8.I will need some mobility due to the ever present space limitation issue – at least to move it from a wall and angle it a bit for ripping longer planks, and then move it back. I have a concrete floor.
9.I would like to avoid saving money on a saw and then spending another fortune on accessories that come standard on another machine (resaw fence, mobility device, built in light, guides that I won’t feel compelled to change, and at least one decent blade).
I have the following concerns about these saws:
1.Grizzly G0701 – at $3K, I like this saw. However, it is limited to no less than a 3/8”blade, YES, that is 3/8” per Grizzly literature. It should rip to 19 1/2 inches, however. Maybe I should get it and keep my 14” saw for tighter curves. Can’t find any reviews on this new saw. Griz says no complaints or returns yet.
2.PM 1800 – at $4K, a third more expensive than the Grizzly, but it can only rip to 18”, both of which take this saw out of contention. On the plus side, it will take a 1/16” blade that should cut 90 degrees.
3.Laguna LT20 – Priced between the Griz and PM, takes a 1/8” inch blade and will resaw 20” or so. I have no familiarity with the ceramic guides and don’t know if I would love or hate them. There is a lot of heresay about poor customer service – I don’t know if this alleged shortcoming has been resolved. Made in Bulgaria and not Italy? Can’t complain about a 6HP Baldor motor, though. This may be the saw for me.
4.MM20 – Price is comparable to the Laguna ($3,595) and sounds like it is more saw. Again, 1/8” blade and 20” resaw. This may be my preference, but I can’t find through specs on it. Some bloggers suggest getting the Laguna ceramic guides for it at another $250, however and a resaw fence (that looks like I would need to spend time mounting) – so why not just get the Laguna, save the extra cost, and be done with it?
5.Bridgewood 20” – looks like Wilke was the only dealer for this model and Wilke has dropped it. I was beginning to think that it is the saw for me. Oh well.
6.Agazzani – sounds like a great saw but I’ve not found a current price for a model that meets my needs. Also read some discouraging comments on having to change guide bearings for blade changes, but maybe this was an older saw? Or would I have to do this on any saw? Also read a post about a joke of a miter slot for this monster saw. I know the masters of modern woodworking had Agazzanis, but were they using like I would (changing blades, for example)?
7. Anything I missed worth considering?
I also have no experience resawing wider than 12”. Am I correct to assume that with the right saw and blade and reasonably sized chunk of wood I should be able to resaw successfully to 20”? Looks like plenty of others do.
Is it going to be so difficult to change any/all of these saws between a resaw blade and 1/8” blade that I’ll just wind up using the big saw for resaw and my 14 incher for scrolling anyway, in which case I might as well save several hundred (or a thousand) bucks and get the Griz G0701?
Are there amperage considerations with these saws? I generally only run one machine plus the Dust Collector at a time and run a 5HP Baldor motored PM shaper on one circuit.
FYI, I am helping a neighbor make a gun rack for his son. I’m also resawing Walnut for a repro Virginia huntboard. To avoid the time (which I don’t have to spare) and aggravation of changing bandsaw blades and readjusting, I handed my neighbor my jig saw to cut the pattern – my saw made me feel like a selfish jerk. I did help him file it afterwards (beats the hell out of changing my blades since it was productive time with no aggravation).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Steve,

Based on your comments, I would say you have already made your mind up to have the Laguna.

I was in the same predicament a couple of years ago. I exchanged emails with Mark Duginkse. His reply "You can't go wrong with any of those Italian made bandsaws."

I bought an MM-16. I am sure my two sons will argue over ownership of it when I leave this world.

Buy what your mind, heart and budget will allow.

[Dave MacArthur]

This may be the most thorough "what saw should I get?" post I've ever seen ;)

Here's a "list price" list from Jesse at Eagle tools another creeker recently sent me, which I hope he does not mind me posting--getting pricing or almost any info online about the Agazzani was so hard it was almost off the table, this recent pricing was a great help to me. I've only heard great things about Eagle, although they are in CA and shipping may be a factor--or maybe not, can't hurt to check. It seems that the new B20/20 model (B20 with 20" resaw vs. the normal 13.5") might be a good match.

> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 09:00:27 -0700
> Subject: AGAZZANI Price List ( D )
> From: "jesse@eagle-tools.com" <jesse@eagle-tools.com>

>
> AGAZZANI: MADE IN ITALY SINCE 1938
>
> MODEL DESCRIPTION LIST PRICE
>
> B-18 18² Agazzani Bandsaw $2,395
> 3 HP, 230 volts, 1Ø, 13² Resaw
> Includes rip fence, magnetic controls,
> Microswitch on doors and footbrake,
> (Two dust ports, rack and pinion for tilting table)
> 370 lbs., blade length 150²
>
> B18/18 18² RESAW BANDSAW $3295
> (NEW)
> 4.8HP, 230volts, 1 Ø, 18² Resaw
> Features full 18² Resaw capacity.
> Same worktable as B-20. Same motor as B-24
> extra heavy duty vertical column on body frame
> 480 lbs. , blade length 167²
>
> B-20 20² Agazzani Bandsaw $2,795
> 3HP, 230 volts, 1Ø, (3.6HP@3Ø) 13.5² Resaw
> Includes rip fence, magnetic controls,
> Microswitch on doors and footbrake,
> 458 lbs., blade length 162²
> (Two dust ports,rack and pinion for tilting table)
>
> B-20/20 20² RESAW BANDSAW $3,695
> (NEW)
> 4.8HP, Twin belt motor drive,
> Features full 20² resaw capacity
> extra heavy duty vertical column on body frame

While reading your excellent post, I thought several times to myself, "this guy needs to keep his 14" Grizzly!" Yes the wide tables and throat on the big saw would make it nice to work a 1/4" blade on, but I'll bet that MOST of your curve work would fit on the G0555, and that when it came to it you'd enjoy NOT having to reset the big saw AT ALL when you didn't have to, by just turning to the pre-set 14"er. I know I'd trade off 2.5 sq ft of floor space for not having to mess with the tension/blade/alignment/guides of my saw, and just turn around to my OTHER perfectly set saw ;)

I've been researching the same question as you for years now. The Bridgewood saw was made for Wilke by ACM in Italy, who also makes saws for Felder (I believe). Joe Jensen got one recently and enjoys it, there is a new 23.5" Felder (FB600) with 16" resaw, ACM saw, on sale introductory price of $2995. Joe likes his, and you can read about the saw on www.felderusa.com (http://www.felderusa.com). I know Joe had a Laguna 16HD and likes his new Felder better. Also, their East Coast depot is at NewCastle DE, not too far from you at all to go see. It's not as much resaw as you're asking, but maybe enough?

All Laguna Band Saws 16"-37 are made by ACM, see this thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=52074


MiniMax MM20, $3595, maybe built by Centauro?


4.8hp (1x230v) motor
20" Resaw capacity
1/8"-1.50" blade capacity
171" blade length
19.75"x27.5" cast iron table
35" table height
765 lbs. net weight


http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_bs.tpl&product_id=257&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=35

And the Grizzly G0701, which I've been trying to find posts/testimonials about for a month now. Specs look great, except the 3/8" blade, but I like the features list better than all the rest. No idea about the fence though.

Good luck!

[Van Huskey]

1. Agazzani B-20/20
2. Laguna LT20 (made in Italy I believe by ACM)
3. MM20

Those would be my three picks in order.

I agree with Dave keep the 14" saw for curves. I think you would like the Laguna guides, I like them so much I am planning on a Agazzani and replacing the euro guides with Laguna guides. The Euro guides are fine ans some people prefer them. I am going with Agazzani partly due to the number of REAL BS gurus that own them, plus I think Maloof owned 3, if it is good enough for Maloof it is MORE than good enough for me.

The Grizzly is probably a great saw, but I just can not see it at the price compared to the Italian machines, they have stood the test of time and far and wide considered to be THE bandsaws, for 10-20% more and I can be confident I have one of the best BS made.

The PM 1800 is also a VERY nice saw, I have a friend with one and have used it but it nor the Grizzly will resaw 20". It can be had for about 3525 shipped, so about 10% more than the Griz and does have a warranty twice as long, it is considered an industrial machine so t doesn't have the PM 5 year warranty.

[Doug Shepard]

I have a MM-16 and it's been a great saw. I generally keep a Lenox Tri-Master carbide blade on it so dont change blades all that often, but blade changes are pretty easy when I do. If you're going to do a lot of resawing, I'd highly recommend you get a TM blade for it. The surface left behind is outstanding and it will outlive other blades as well. The MM doesn't have a quick release type tensioner but the crank wheel makes pretty quick work of tensioning (or releasing) the blade. I've looked hard at the Laguna Driftmaster fence a couple of times but there are a couple of negatives that have stopped me from putting one on my MM-16. You cant move the fence to the opposite side of the blade or remove it (without disassembly). I've done a fair bit of angled cuts with the table tilted and rely on being able to position the fence on the downhill slope to support the work. Cant do that with the driftmaster or remove it to do freehand cuts on larger pieces. If my MM-16 was relegated to resaw only work, I'd probably happily snap up a Driftmaster for it. Haven't had any problems getting consistent thickness veneer slices with the stock MM fence and attached taller auxilary fence board, although you dont get the micro-adjust like the Laguna fence. I've looked at the Agazzani saws on line and they look like great machines, but if memory serves the resaw heights tend to run lower than either the Laguna or MM equivalent sized saws. So while you might be able to get the same resaw height you might have to go to the next larger sized saw to do it. Dont know if that keeps the pricing competitive or not. I could be mistaken on that or they may have boosted their resaw height specs since I looked though.

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

I've had my Laguna 18 for about 1 1/2 years now. The saw is a great piece of machinery. The ceramic guides are fantastic. My start switch went bad and they shipped me one overnight. However, the re-installation was a bear and I ended up installing a basic switch. The lower blade guide is ridiculous, as far as getting to it for blade width adjustment. The Baldor motor is strong and quiet. The throat depth is less than advertised. Overall, I would buy this machine again. I have also seen an Agazzani at work, and that was excellent too.

[Van Huskey]

I've looked at the Agazzani saws on line and they look like great machines, but if memory serves the resaw heights tend to run lower than either the Laguna or MM equivalent sized saws. So while you might be able to get the same resaw height you might have to go to the next larger sized saw to do it. .

That was true in the past but Agazzani just released the B-18/18 and the B-20/20 which have 18 and 20 inch resaw heights. So now you have the choice. But if you don't need more than 16 3/4" the B-24 is a big saw for about the price of a Laguna LT18.

[Greg Portland]

Regarding minimum blade size, you can and will want to retrofit the existing guides for small blades. The minimum blade size restriction is due to the guides, not the rest of the saw. The existing guides on these saws are setup for large blades & ripping. It is fairly simple to swap out the rollers or ceramic blocks with wood blocks or "cool blocks" to handle very small blades. I run 1/8" blades on my LT18 with zero problems.

[Dennis Lopeman]

WOw - very thorough! I'm flagging this for my future research - proly saved me a couple hours here! Thanks.

I did see the Powermatic (NEW) 18" this past weekend. VERY nice indeed... but then I only have a friggin SHopSmith one... so the all look nice... I like my SS bandsaw, just for the record! I have just outgrown it!

[Mark Levitski]

My wife and I also have a Grizz 14" and like it, but we also got a Laguna 24 X 24 and it is great. I did have some customer service problems, but it was with their in-house accessory, the Timbermaster sliding table, and not with the saw or the shipping/packaging etc. Strictly a quality control issue handled with a sort of denial or ho-hum, so what attitude (how 'bout a sliding table that doesn't slide?!, i.e., simple as very long mitre bar not machined right). If you're getting just the saw, and I would definitely recommend it, go for it and expect smooth sailing. Our saw is made in Italy, and I'm sure the 20" is too. Can't even compare to the Jet. Grizz, PM, Delta, etc.

Duginske is our local guy, and I can vouch for his authenticity and advice.

[Mike Gottlieb]

I pretty much agree with Van except I would rank them as follows:
1. Aggazani B20/20
2. MM-20
3. Laguna LT20
Good saws all. It just depends on personal preference.

[Steve Costa]

I own a MM16 and love it. Laguna makes fine tools but they contract to various European mfgs for their tools, making parts acquistion at later dates possibly difficult.

Mini-Max / SCM is now located in Georgia, I believe in the Atlanta area. It might be worth a trip down to see the saw. Sometimes they have booths at the Woodworking shows. Best bet is to declare yourself a business (they never check) and attend the AWFS woodworking expo in North Carolina this summer. All of the major tool manufactures attend with their full line of tools. Plan for a long weekend. Also start checking the MM site 6 to 8 weeks or so before the AWFS event. They often sell their demos from the show & you can pay for them in advance.

If you don't want to wait call MM on their 800 number. Some will be delighted to sell you a saw. Coming out of Georgia the freight should be "reasonable".

[Steve Dietrich]

Thanks to all, so far, for the great insights and enticing food for thought. Although not having the saw will hold up completing my sideboard top as I want to do it, it may force me to get more creative and produce a more interesting result while I follow some of your leads to the saw that should last me the rest of our lives. Waiting to attend the AWFS show in NC this summer may be worthwhile – thanks Steve --Georgia may be out of range, but still worth considering – or at least a call to MM. It will depend on which saws I can find out will be at the show – no need to wait or to go if I can’t compare.
Dave, thanks for the specs and other links, a few of which I’ve seen, but I especially appreciated the link to the post with the compilation of links, I had missed that one. You and others have confirmed my suspicion that I should hang on to the Grizz for scrolling and only change blades in the monster only when necessary. Mark, the features on the G0701 are impressive, but with no customer reviews, I’m still saw shy.
Greg – you have me thinking that if I get the big Grizz, I could swap the guides/rollers to fit a smaller blade and Mark, you have me thinking the Grizz may not be a bad choice – I may call Grizzly about this. I wouldn’t mind saving $700 or so to spend on something else, but if I have to spend 400 or 700 to bring the Grizz G0701 to the satisfaction level of an Italian saw, why bother?
For a resaw blade, I’ll be sure to get a carbide blade – Tri-Master, probably. Doug, thanks for pointing out the limitation on the Driftmaster fence – it never occurred to me that the Driftmaster fence could not be easily moved from side to side on the blade. Also, I did not think about the fence placement for cuts on a tilted table. My Grizzly fence simply lifts off the saw and easily plops down on the opposite side of the blade – but it is not micro adjustable, which so, far is not that important to me, but it may be in the future (and yes, I can figure out how to set up to micro-adjust a fence myself).
All of Jesse’s supporters at Eagle have me convinced to give him a call about an Agazzani B20/20.
Those of you happy with your Lagunas, have also helped me keep it in the running. On the other hand, Arnold, you have me concerned about the lower blade guide. Love my Baldor on my shaper, though.
Since Doug pointed out that the MM does not have a quick release type tensioner, can anyone answer that question for the AgazzaninB20/20 and Laguna LT-20,
Dave, I’m also checking on your Felder lead, but so far have not found anything they make that meets my requirements, though a trip to New Castle would make for a pleasant day trip.
Mark, thanks for pointing out that your Laguna, and probably the LT-20, is made in Italy. I’m still a bit worried about support if parts come from all over, but this may be true with other saws, just as it is with “American made” cars.
As it stands, Van, Mike, and others, in this price range, why overlook the established old faithfuls. The Agazzani B-20/20i is looking pretty good to me. Hope I can talk with Jesse tomorrow. Next on my list is the MM-20. Laguna and Grizz are still contenders.
Maybe we should all just have several Agazzani saws like Maloof so we set each one differently and not have to worry about these trade offs.

[Van Huskey]

Best bet is to declare yourself a business (they never check) and attend the AWFS woodworking expo in North Carolina this summer. .

A "slightly" better bet would be to come a little farther down to Atlanta to IWF (International Woodworking Fair) at the end of August, it is THE show to end all shows.

[Van Huskey]

Steve, 2 things all the Lagunas above the LT16HD are made in Italy. The 3000 series are all made in Asia as is the 14SUV there are two 14" saws made in I think Bulgaria BUT needless to say any of the Lagunas you are looking at are made by ACM in Italy.

I don't think any of the big Italian saws have quick releases, the conventional wisdom is this simply is a commercial gimmick for numerous reasons. If you keep the saw set up for resaw it shouldn't be an issue.

Another thing that sold me on Eagle is check out how they ship the saws and the pre-shipment shake-down/inspection.

In the end you are not really rolling the dice with MM, Laguna or Aga they are all world class saws. Not to beat up on Grizzly but one other thing is resell, I am willing to bet the cost of ownership will be less for the big 3 when the saw gets sold (even if it is by your children) the 3 will bring a premium the Grizzly well won't. Shiraz thinks this saw is just as good AND it might be but it is a lot of money to be a test case, plus Grizzly almost ALWAYS wins best value in comparisons but I can't think of a single time they actually beat all the competition. If the pricing was a little more on the market penetration side I might be inclined to bite myself, but at about 10% difference for a similar saw it is just a risk I wouldn't take.

[Scot Ferraro]

I do not think you will go wrong with any of the choices -- I think that Laguna and Agazzani would be my top two of your list. I think that Laguna has excellent customer service and the LT 20 is a great machine. If you can swing a little more money, I would actually opt for the LT24 as you get better throat depth and same specs for everything else (they used to have a show-room model that they were discounting pretty heavily -- not sure if they still do). I have also bought tools from Jesse and Eagle Tools is great to deal with too.

I love my LT18 and would buy another without question -- actually knowing what I know now I would spring for the LT24. My saw is a 2001 vintage with every upgrade (new ceramic guides, new 4.5 hp Baldor, DriftMaster Fence) and it is a dream machine. I personally love the ceramic guides and would buy them to retrofit any other saw if I went with something other than Laguna. No moving parts and ease of adjustability are huge plus factors in this system over Euro-style. Both types of guides work well, but the ceramics work better for me. If you are using smaller baldes, you need to buy the cool-block option for the ceramics...I never use that narrow of a blade and so I am fine with the standard configuration. You need cool blocks even with the euro-style (speaking of which I have a set that I need to sell since I switched guide systems).

If you have not considered it, I would also check out the offerings by Felder -- they also carry ACM offerings and they just rolled out a new model that appears to be made by a different manufacturer -- this is discounted as a new model, but has many compelling features. Just food for thought.

Scot

[Van Huskey]

If you have not considered it, I would also check out the offerings by Felder -- they also carry ACM offerings and they just rolled out a new model that appears to be made by a different manufacturer -- this is discounted as a new model, but has many compelling features. Just food for thought.

Scot

The new Felder FB 600 is actually a great buy at the intro price but to get the resaw height the OP wants you have to move up to the 740 which has a list price near 6k but it is a monster with 29" wheels! It seems Europeans are not as interested in huge resaw heights like we tend to be here.

[glenn bradley]

Can't speak to the larger saws but, I sold my 12" when I bought a 17". I bought another small saw to replace the 12" about 2 months after realizing my mistake. Keep the 14".

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I wouldn't let a "quick release" be a deal breaker. I don't have it on my MM-16. When I'm done I just rotate the tension handle 2 full turns to loosen tension. The next time I use it, I tighten it 2 full turns and quickly check the tracking. I seldom have to adjust the tracking but do check it. I would expect you'd have to check it using a quick release too.

[Russell Sansom]

I have a used MM-16 and am very fond of it. When the nuttzo switch broke I had a world of problems with customer service. 5 phone calls. One of them absolutely refused to pass me on unless I gave her the serial number ( couldn't get to it at the time ), but the other 4 did not. Got 4 different answers. The tech guy says..."well when the switch goes out, we recommend people get a new coil, you never know." ( For $49 a simple continuity check is a quick attempt at economy ). I believe I paid $129 for the crazy switch. Next time it goes, I'll simply buy a mag-start switch and kluge a nice-looking box on the front of the machine.
Replacement was strange even for an experienced electronics technician.
Did I mention that customer service was poor, frustrating, and odd? 5 phone calls, 4 different answers and one who didn't want my business. Could just have been a bad two weeks at mini-max?

[Frank Drew]

Steve,

Nothing against Italian machinery, but there are other big band saws you might consider looking for in the used machinery marketplace: Tannewitz, Oliver, Yates.....

[Van Huskey]

Steve,

Nothing against Italian machinery, but there are other big band saws you might consider looking for in the used machinery marketplace: Tannewitz, Oliver, Yates.....


A very valid point but finding one with the 20" resaw capability will be hard, the Tannewitz GH has it but cost a pretty penny if it isn't a project, weighs a ton and a half and is near 9ft tall plus add a phase convertor and it becomes a little more than most would want to tackle. Heck, Tannewitz has an excellent line of steel spined production saws in currently but again very pricy and you can still buy a GH, think it is called the GHE.

[Steve Dietrich]

Thanks for the additional helpful info. Frank and Van, as an historian and antique fanatic, I would love to have an old Oliver, but have ruled these old saws out because, yes, I do not need a project, and if it is not a project then I'm sure cost becomes a factor as well as size and weight. I used to maintain my 66 Charger, but now, I'd rather reshape wood than tinker with metal, wires and belts - where does Oliver hide the spark plug, anyway? Ken, yes, it appears that the tension handles are much easier to turn than the small knob on the top of my 14 incher. OK, Van, so I guess I can save my time on Felder. Russ, sorry to hear about your bizzare experience with MM and thanks for sharing, but since you like yours in spite of, it is still on my list. Scott, you have me thinking strongly about Laguna again. Van, I've been wanting to go to the Atlanta show - maybe this is the year -- the WW shows around our area are prettly limited in variety (one or two local dealers show up with the usual equipment, PM, Delta, and Jet and a few factory reps oozing sunshine about their tools and all threaten it is their last local show due to slow sales).

I may try to round up the owner's manuals on these Italian jobs (Grizzly's, of course, is just a mouse click away). They should give me a good visual on what it takes to adjust the guides, for example.

[Mark Woodmark]

Just bought the Agazzani B-20. Looks like a great saw, but I havent set it up or used it yet. Agazzani saws have new blade guides. Maybe they realized the hassle with changing the blade guides as you mentioned. They are Euro style. I plan to see how they work before I think about changing them to Laguna guides. I also purchased a Laguna Driftmaster fence that I have not installed yet. And finally the miter slot is a joke. I thought my table was defective at first. I plan to make my own miter gauge for the saw using an aftermarket gauge and a piece of alumimun bar for the miter slot

[Dennis Lopeman]

Can't speak to the larger saws but, I sold my 12" when I bought a 17". I bought another small saw to replace the 12" about 2 months after realizing my mistake. Keep the 14".


YUP! I had already thought of that for my needs. The shorter blades are probably cheaper and if you do any small work pieces, a small BS is all you need.

The big one, for me, will be for resawing and making veneers.

[Thomas Knapp]

"4.Easy blade changes – I’m tired of fighting with the tension that won’t fully release on my current bandsaw and the blades that won’t easily slip on and off, tension that is difficult and time consuming to adjust, fussy guides that require painstaking adjusting for each blade change and each time I change the height (yes, I’ve tried shimming the riser block), and a table lock that can’t withstand the weight of some planks that I’ve resawn. I don't think this saw is worth upgrading with Carter parts."

I have that problem with my Chinese made 14" Delta. I found out the problem is a bent tracking arm. I assume the grizzly is a "delta clone". I have a new tracking arm coming from Iturra design and also a new tension spring. That is supposed to take care of that problem. Iturra has both an original tracking arm (cast pot-metal) and a machined steel arm that should not bend. The problem with your grizzly is probably the same. The steel tracking arm comes with shims to align the wheels and thus the saw blade front to back, parallel to the thrust bearing on the guides.
If you call them they could tell you if they have the parts you need.
Iturra design (904) 642-2802

[Greg Portland]

Greg – you have me thinking that if I get the big Grizz, I could swap the guides/rollers to fit a smaller bladeTo be super-clear, you will not be swapping the guide system... just the actual roller or blocks held by the guide system. You will want to swap back to the original guides for wide blade resaw efforts.

[Scott T Smith]

Very good insight shared on this thread. What I would add...

Definitely keep both saws. Dialing in a bandsaw to where it is "just right" takes some time, and in my experience it's best to avoid blade changes. I have a 16" horizontal resaw and a 17" vertical bandsaw, and I no-longer resaw with the 17" unless it is something too short for the big saw.

The carbide tipped Lennox tri masters are great for resawing. I find that I get a cleaner resaw cut from the 3-4 TPI blades, as opposed to the 2-3 TPI version.

For resawing, a power feeder is really useful, as is a very tall fence. The power feeder allows you to maintain a consistent feed rate, which improves the cut.

[Steve Dietrich]

Well guys - Uncle Grizzley just came out with a sales brochure today - lowered the price of the G0701 $200 to $2,795. That makes it a full $900 less than the Italian jobs. Or, put another way, the Italian jobs cost a third more than the Grizz. From what all of you have told me, the minimum 3/8" blade on the Grizz should not be a concern. I suppose I could replace the Grizz guides with the Laguna ceramic blocks for aboutn $300 if I decided to at some point and if they would fit my Grizz- still a savings of $600. I'm sure we all know what we could do with such significant savings. I found superb videos on the Laguna site but noticed that the Grizz has cast iron trunions and cast iron trunions for the Laguna LT20 would be an upgrade. Also, the Laguna does not come standard with a driftmaster fence. I think Laguna's 6 hp Baldor also needs 40 amps, so I would have to piggyback a new circuit breaker and run a new wire. Still love what I'm seeing on the Italian jobs, though, and still undecided. I suppose I could travel up to Grizz World in PA and get hands on with one, even pick it up to save shipping. We'll see.

[Steve Dietrich]

The Grizz sale runs through 23 Sept, so that gives me time to go to Atlanta and may give some negotiating leverage with the other dealers.

[Karl Brogger]

7. Anything I missed worth considering?



Northfield + power feed = awesome for re-sawing.

[Vijay Kumar]

Well guys - Uncle Grizzley just came out with a sales brochure today - lowered the price of the G0701 $200 to $2,795. That makes it a full $900 less than the Italian jobs. et hands on with one, even pick it up to save shipping. We'll see.

Steve,
Do you have any links to the sale brochure--the web site still shows the 2995 price

Vijay

[Steve Dietrich]

Vijay - the Grizzly sales brochure came via snail mail.

[Vijay Kumar]

Steve,

Can you please post the details such as coupon code, expiration etc. Better still can you post an image?

Thanks

Vijay

[Stephen Cherry]

I have an Agazzani 24 inch saw. I am just getting in to woodworking, and generally do not care for incremental purchases, so I bought a big saw. It's easy enough to change the blades and adjust the guides. The one thing I will say though would be that if any tool would benefit from a VFD (variable frequency drive) it would be a bandsaw. I feel sorry for the belt and motor each time I turn the saw on. A vfd would add the capability of accelerating the mass of the saw up to speed. In use, the saw just cuts what is presented to the blade, I have yet to stress it in any way.

The saw is easy enough to deal with, it's mounted on single bolt type casters that attach through holes in the base.

Like all the machines I have, I bought them used through either Ebay or Craigslist. I generally shop for quality and condition, rather than rock bottom price.

[George Clark]

Steve,

I have a MM 16 and am quite satisfied with it. For the straight skinny on MM saws I suggest you contact Sam Blasco. http://samantics2.com/home.html Sam is an extremal talented and creative cabinet maker. He was at one time a MM rep and may still be associated with Mini Max. I believe he uses a MM 20 in his shop. I assure you, what he tells you will be truthful, from a woodworker's perspective and not salesman BS.

George

[Van Huskey]

The Grizz sale runs through 23 Sept, so that gives me time to go to Atlanta and may give some negotiating leverage with the other dealers.

Steve, nothing wrong with that approach. There is something in me that secretely wants you to get the Griz, mainly because we don't have a boots on the ground review...:D

I am a "car" nut and I see the Griz like the Hyundai Genesis a break out car designed to compete against the big boys in the upline class and a VERY good car in the segment, I just can't see me spending my money, assuming I could afford the others, on a new player in the class when names like Lexus, BMW, Mercedes and Audi have owned the segment for years. BUT the Genesis is a car I would recommend to others and I whole heartedly expect the Griz to be a saw I would recommend to others if I had time to play with one but still willing to bet my money would be on an Italian saw for me, if nothing else for the safety blanket of resell. Though the truth of it is we often get a upper level tool and die with it, not really an good analogy with cars as resell almost always comes into that equation.

[Van Huskey]

Northfield + power feed = awesome for re-sawing.


But for that price one could get a really nice horizintal resaw and a big Italian vertical plus a 14" cast clone decked out with Carter upgrades and still have money left over!

[Karl Brogger]

But for that price one could get a really nice horizintal resaw and a big Italian vertical plus a 14" cast clone decked out with Carter upgrades and still have money left over!

You get what you pay for.

[Richard Link]

+1 for the good comments about Sam Blasco. When i was combo machine shopping, he was a great resource.

I purchased an Agazzani B-24 saw last summer and have been very happy with it. Solid as a mountain and nothing seems to stress it. It doesn't have a quick release mechanism but its so trivial to re-tension the blade that I doubt I would really find it helpful.

The only trouble I had with the saw was getting it from its horizontal to a standing position out of the crate by myself. Not something I would recommend......

[Van Huskey]

You get what you pay for.


I have only used one Northfield BS in my life and it was a nice machine. Two things really struck me, one it was direct drive and second it had aluminum wheels (very thick though).

[Cameron Reddy]

You get what you pay for.

Actually, now days you don't get what you pay for...

But you sure don't get what you don't pay for!

Cameron Reddy

[Steve Dietrich]

Thanks to all for the additional comments. Tom, thanks for the lead on the lead to the Itura arm - I'll have to pursue that.

Frankly, I'm tired of shopping and comparing. I'm ready to get a saw in the shop and slice some wood.

Laguna has not responded in 3 days to my question through their web site - so, they are fired.

Carter promptly offered info on its guides for Grizzly, but could not link it to a particular saw and had two models for big Grizzlys. Grizzly, of course, has been machine-gun rapid in its responses, but could not refer me to other guides to overcome the 3/8" limitiation (either theirs or others). And, frankly, I didn't feel like doing the research in the spec sheets my self. So they are out of the running.

Also, based on all of your great input, I'm sure that if I bought the Grizz, I'd spend the rest of my woodworking life wondering if I made the right decision and I have neither the time nor spare cash to be the test case for the saw.

I called Jesse at Eagle tools and he is every bit as great to work with as all of you and others have said. Jesse had me seriously thinking about a B-24, but I've decided on an Agazzani B 20/20. I'm sure I'll never look back or question this decision.

After speaking with Jesse and considering all I've read from Agazzani owners and others experienced with them, I decided that I need to look no further.

Do any of you have suggestions or comments on the Agga accessories (heavy duty miter guage and mobile base)?

He is also offering at a very nice price the following blade: Lenox WoodMasterCT Carbide Blade: 178” x 1” x 2 TPI - for resawing, ripping, and some joinery. I'm wondering if I'll be happy with this one or if I'll question whether I should have gone with a Trimaster - any thoughts?

Jesse is running a test to see if a 30 amp circuit will handle the Agga's 4.8 HP motor of if I should go with a 40 amp circuit. Same motor as the B24, but lighter wheels. Again, any thoughts?

[Stephen Cherry]

I run my 24 agazzani from a 30 amp breaker, no problems. Mobile base- stud type casters from home depot through the holes in the base. The miter gauge looks weak, but it works OK.

[Doug Shepard]

...
He is also offering at a very nice price the following blade: Lenox WoodMasterCT Carbide Blade: 178” x 1” x 2 TPI - for resawing, ripping, and some joinery. I'm wondering if I'll be happy with this one or if I'll question whether I should have gone with a Trimaster - any thoughts?
...


Sam Blasco has a pretty good side-by-side comparison
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=66446

[Pat Scott]

Steve did you buy the B20/20? I'm like you in that I'm tired of looking and comparing and I'm ready to buy. I have narrowed my choice to the Agazzani B18/18 or B20/20. Jesse will knock $100 off the price of the 20/20 for me, so now it's only $100 more than the 18/18. Seems like a no-brainer to get the 20/20. Jesse told me the difference between the two is not just 2" more inches of resaw height and 2" more inches of throat, but he said the 20/20 has a much beefier blade tension assembly (twice the size is how he put it), a little bit bigger trunnion (3/8" in size), 75 lbs of extra mass in the body and wheels, plus the 20/20 has two drive belts instead of 1 belt on the 18/18. I doubt I will ever need or use 18" of resaw let alone 20", but for the extra $100 (or even $200 normal price difference), the small difference in price seems worth it to get a beefed up saw.

If you got the 20/20, do you run it off a 30 amp circuit? How do you like the saw? How do you like the new Euro guides? Foot brake work OK?

[Steve Dietrich]

Steve did you buy the B20/20? I'm like you in that I'm tired of looking and comparing and I'm ready to buy. I have narrowed my choice to the Agazzani B18/18 or B20/20. Jesse will knock $100 off the price of the 20/20 for me, so now it's only $100 more than the 18/18. Seems like a no-brainer to get the 20/20. Jesse told me the difference between the two is not just 2" more inches of resaw height and 2" more inches of throat, but he said the 20/20 has a much beefier blade tension assembly (twice the size is how he put it), a little bit bigger trunnion (3/8" in size), 75 lbs of extra mass in the body and wheels, plus the 20/20 has two drive belts instead of 1 belt on the 18/18. I doubt I will ever need or use 18" of resaw let alone 20", but for the extra $100 (or even $200 normal price difference), the small difference in price seems worth it to get a beefed up saw.

If you got the 20/20, do you run it off a 30 amp circuit? How do you like the saw? How do you like the new Euro guides? Foot brake work OK?



Pat - I bought the B20/20 and love it. With your deal, I would spend the extra $100 and get the B20/20. I love the saw. I also like my cousin's 18" Laguna, but it is not nearly the saw as the B20/20.

I run it off a 220 volt 30 amp circuit but believe it would be fine on lower amperage. See if Jesse will instal the cord and plug for you.

The Euro guides are a dream. I just use my fingers and eyes to make the adjustments - I have a dollar bill magnetted to the saw, but never feel that it is needed and I'm getting fantastic cuts this way. I also like the ceramic guides on my cousin's Laguna and his guides allow a clearer site line to the point of the cut, but I don't have a problem with the Agazzani.

In spite of this saw's greatness, I will point out a few things that could use some tweaking or that you should be aware of.

The foot brake works superbly to stop the saw - a marvelous safety feature and real time saver. Without it, the wheels are so massive that the blade seems to continue turning forever. However, after using the brake, I find that I have to then lift the brake pedal with the top of my foot to reset the switch - line the spring is too weak - I've done this enough times that it is built into my muscle memory and I don't give it a second thought. Also, if you do not have good dust collection, it is possible for dust to settle between the foot brake switch and its connection inside the saw so that you have to open the bottom door to blow the dust off the switch - this hasn't happened to me since shortly after I bought the saw and modified my dust collection ductwork.

My guide post is not perfectly perpendicular from front to back, so as I slide the guide up and down, the gap between the blade and guide changes - but, the post is adjustable though I haven't messed with it and the guides are so easy to adjust that I find it to be no big deal. I generally keep the guides set to just clear the top of the fence so I'm not moving them up and down very much. Jesse offered to coach me through adjusting the guide post, but suggested I try it like it is.

At Jesse's recommendation, I'm using a Lenox Woodmaster blade and am very pleased with it. On a resaw of any width, I find that the cut is so clean that a few passes (2 to 4 generally) of a smoothing plane removes the saw marks. As a bonus, this blade also does a nice job ripping thinner stock (say ripping a 3/4" board) which is counter to what most of the writings say about blades. Except for some final precision cuts, I am doing almost all of my ripping on the bandsaw and it rips through any 8/4 hardwood effortlessly - almost as fast as I can feed the wood.

The saw is extremely heavy - two strong men needed a hoist to safely lift my saw from its horizontal position in the crate to the upright position. But the saw is so massive that it doesn't budge when I rip long and heavy stock on it.

The fence also has some slop until I push the tightening lever, so it takes a little getting used to to get the fence aligned and secured the correct distance from the blade, but again, I believe this is adjustable and doesn't bug me enough to mess with it. I am impressed with my cousin's Laguna micro adjustable fence (I forget what it is called) and I will probably add one to my Agazzani in the future (I know I keep pointing out some features that may be nicer on the Laguna, but I have no regrets).

The tensioning wheel was also fairly hard to turn until I had the saw broken in -- I had to dampen my hands or wear grippy gloves to keep the wheel from slipping in my hands. Now it turns just fine - but still not with the ease of my cousin's Laguna. I suppose if I lubed it with some white grease it would turn much easier. But, again, this has been no big deal.

Could my saw use some tweaking to be perfect - yep and it is all stuff that I could probably take care of myself if I were so inclined but it is also stuff that doesn't annoy me enough to invest the time and make the effort to do the tweaks. Would I buy this saw again -- without hesitation. And, I can't rave enough about how wonderful it has been working with Jessee; as noted in other posts about Laguna I could not get Laguna to respond to me, but Jesse was extremely responsive and helpful - going the extra mile to try some things with a saw in his store to help answer some of my questions. Everything was just as Jesse promised, including the shipping and delivery. The custom crating was phenomenal. I'm sure this saw will last me the rest of my lifetime which is too short to waste waiting on Laguna.

Enjoy your purchase.

[ian maybury]

:) The big deal i found when i bought a lightly used Agazzani (a UK spec equivalent to the B-24) was the way all the pernickedtyness that was normal with its predecessor just disappeared. You just set it up as looks right and cut - and it does it. No wandering, vibration, anything. Even the fence which appears at first sight to be basic is rock solid and easy to adjust to get to a setting.....

ian

[Steve Dietrich]

:) The big deal i found when i bought a lightly used Agazzani (a UK spec equivalent to the B-24) was the way all the pernickedtyness that was normal with its predecessor just disappeared. You just set it up as looks right and cut - and it does it. No wandering, vibration, anything. Even the fence which appears at first sight to be basic is rock solid and easy to adjust to get to a setting.....

ian

I agree with Ian. I only meant to point out a few items that I found less than perfect with the machine so a buyer won't be surprised - and all of these can be resolved, I'm sure, with minimal effort or expense or easily tolerated as is as I do with the sheer joy I experience every time I use it. But yes, it is rock solid, extremely quiet, absolutely no vibration, the fence locks down rock solid with absolutely no deflection and I find it easy enough to adjust for my needs (and it can rapidly be switched between a high fence and about a half inch tall fence if you want), the guides are a dream to use, and I could fill up another page singing its praises.