Steel Bandsaws With 110 Power

[John Mark Lane]

People are surely going to get tired of my bandsaw posts. Sorry. I'm a bit obsessed with this at the moment. I want to get the right saw for my use.

I was debating the various Delta CI clones when I learned (here) that these "new" "European style" steel bandsaws have some nice advantages. Since resawing is a major thing for me (albeit for smaller pieces), they seem like maybe a good idea.

My problem is, I need to have saw well under 75" tall, and even more important it seems, I need to be able to run it from a 110 volt, 20 amp line. I just don't have the ability to do more in this little shop.

Not many people seem to make a steel bandsaw that is of any consequence that runs on 110/20 amp. If I can't get well above 6 inch resaw capacity, there's no point. None of the steel Grizzly's seem to work for me (all want more power). I just don't want the Laguna (and I think it too wants more power). Basically, as far as I can see, there's Rikon and one Jet, the 16 inch steel one. I don't see anthing else (well, maybe Craftsman, but I looked at one of those today and I just didn't love it). Is there anything else?

Mark

[Jamie Buxton]

You may not like Laguna, but a couple of their 14" models can be ordered in a 115-volt version. They are 12" resaw, and under 75" tall.

[Van Huskey]

If "they" get tired of your BS posts, that would be band saw not Bovine Feces, they can look somewhere else!


There isn't going to be much out there for your niche BUT not sure I would be worried about it, get the Rikon 10-325 and call it a day. Good saw, good price, good resaw cap., 20 amp 120v and short enough (well if 75" is doable). In the end needing a lot of resaw height AND a short saw is a hard mix on its on, then with 120V limitations it gets harder, BSs with lots of resaw height tend to have bigger motors and thus 220v needed.

[Kevin Groenke]

John,


According to Grizzly, the motor on the G0457 can be wired to run on either 110v or 220v. It comes wired for 220, but it's a simple matter of switching the appropriate wires to run it on 110v @ 20a. Instructions on p.56. (http://cdn3.grizzly.com/manuals/g0457_m.pdf)



Specifications:


Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V, single-phase, TEFC capacitor start induction, pre-wired 220V
Amps: 20/10
Overall size: 73"H x 29-3/4"W x 29-1/2"D

[Jamie Buxton]

General has a steel 14" 115 volt saw with 12" resaw: http://www.general.ca/site_general/g_produits/bandsaw/90-170.html

[John Mark Lane]

John,


According to Grizzly, the motor on the G0457 can be wired to run on either 110v or 220v. It comes wired for 220, but it's a simple matter of switching the appropriate wires to run it on 110v @ 20a. Instructions on p.56. (http://cdn3.grizzly.com/manuals/g0457_m.pdf)



Specifications:


Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V, single-phase, TEFC capacitor start induction, pre-wired 220V
Amps: 20/10
Overall size: 73"H x 29-3/4"W x 29-1/2"D



Kevin, thanks for the input. But unless I'm reading it wrong, the G0457 wants a 30 amp line at 110. I ain't got none of those. Otherwise it's a very attractive saw. Seems odd to me that with all the bandsaws they put out Grizzly doesn't have a viable steel saw that runs on a common 110 volt 20 amp line.

[Van Huskey]

Kevin, thanks for the input. But unless I'm reading it wrong, the G0457 wants a 30 amp line at 110. .


You are not reading incorrectly, the spec sheet clearly states min 120v circuit is indeed 30 amps.

[John Mark Lane]

Jamie -- that General looks like a damn nice machine. For some reason, though, they don't seem to think height is a specification anyone would care about. Can't for the life of me figure out how tall the stupid thing is. But it sure looks nice.

Van -- yeah, I just want to make sure I haven't missed any options. It looks like a good saw and I like that the company is in New England (and they answer the phone and are actually helpful...but same can be said of Jet). The 16 inch Jet looks like a beefier machine, and is pretty impressive. I don't understand why there is so little support for Jet on the various Internet boards. They look like good machines. Oddly I found a recent FHB review of jobsite saws notably slanted against Jet, as well (petty comments used to put down their machine). I just don't get it. But yes, the Rikon is pretty much spot on. I'm just a little wary of a company that's only been around for a couple of weeks (I'm old, my reference points are different :) ).

[Dan Friedrichs]

I second one of the smaller Lagunas. Very nice saws, and if you can afford it, you'd like it.

That being said, are you SURE you can't have 220? There's absolutely no way you can snake a single wire back to the breaker box? Perhaps an outlet you have available can be re-wired to 220?

[John Mark Lane]

I second one of the smaller Lagunas. Very nice saws, and if you can afford it, you'd like it.

That being said, are you SURE you can't have 220? There's absolutely no way you can snake a single wire back to the breaker box? Perhaps an outlet you have available can be re-wired to 220?

I can talk to my electrician again, I suppose. But basically it's like this. We have 100 amp service in this 80 year old house. The house is over 3,000 square feet -- 4 bedrooms, 4 baths, playroom, sun room, etc. Plus a garage with a fair amount of usage there (mechanics stuff, I play with motorcycles :) ). Plus outside wiring.

I can squeeze three new lines out of the box. One I intend to dedicate to a dust collection system. Very important as this is a basement shop. There is one line already in the space. That will go to lighting (four 48 inch double flourescent fixtures). The other two will run around the shop space, one in each direction (on one long and one short wall each), to power the tools. A 220 line requires two of the available spaces. That leaves one for the DC and one for the lights. See my point?

Anyway, I honestly don't need the power that 220 would give me. I'm going to be resawing small-ish walnut, maple, cherry, and the occasional exotic hardwood, but in small pieces, maybe an 8 inch wide piece resawn into a handful of 3/8 inch think sections (to be planed smooth to 1/4 inch or so). My thing is small projects, boxes, small furniture pieces, etc. With the kids. I don't need big power. Just need reasonable resaw height, more than the CI saws give.

The Rikon 12 would probably do me just fine, and I may get it. The Rikon 14 would be overkill, but I might do it anyway. The Jet 16 would be awesome, but it looks like a monstrous machine (shorter than the Rikon 14 at 71 inches, but a much bigger body overall). The Laguna...what can I say? I love the Italians...for their amazing aesthetic sensibilities and design work. But I don't love the idea of having the futz with an Italian machine. Call me crazy. Italian women...I can't get enough of! Italian technology...feh.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That will go to lighting (four 48 inch double flourescent fixtures). The other two will run around the shop space, one in each direction (on one long and one short wall each), to power the tools. A 220 line requires two of the available spaces. That leaves one for the DC and one for the lights.

That amount of lighting should only use about 2 amps. You don't need a dedicated circuit for that - put it on some existing lighting circuit. You also may not actually need 2 separate runs for your 110V outlets - is it really likely that you'll be running more than 20A of tools at any one time?



Anyway, I honestly don't need the power that 220 would give me.

I guess if you judge that it would be very difficult/expensive to add a 220 outlet, I don't mean to second-guess you, but hope you don't make big sacrifices when choosing a saw just to stick with 110.



But I don't love the idea of having the futz with an Italian machine. Call me crazy. Italian women...I can't get enough of! Italian technology...feh.
:D
Actually, the smaller Laguna's are made in eastern europe and/or Asia. The prices may be off-putting, but they are still very nice saws...

[Chip Lindley]

If you need a serious Resaw BS, Take a look at the Hitachi CB75F 15 Amp 14-1/2-Inch Resaw Woodworking Band Saw, 115-Volt 1-Phase!
Pricy...but...it fits ALL your criteria.

[Van Huskey]

Van -- yeah, I just want to make sure I haven't missed any options. It looks like a good saw and I like that the company is in New England (and they answer the phone and are actually helpful...but same can be said of Jet). The 16 inch Jet looks like a beefier machine, and is pretty impressive. I don't understand why there is so little support for Jet on the various Internet boards. They look like good machines. Oddly I found a recent FHB review of jobsite saws notably slanted against Jet, as well (petty comments used to put down their machine). I just don't get it. But yes, the Rikon is pretty much spot on. I'm just a little wary of a company that's only been around for a couple of weeks (I'm old, my reference points are different :) ).


First I have NO issues with the Jet saws, the new triangle spined saws are great, the 16 does NOT come with a fence so keep that in mind. If you want to go that way I say go for it. I don't know why people don't like Jet either I have had great luck with them and they have a 5 year warranty.

[Jamie Buxton]

[QUOTE=John Mark Lane;1419736]Jamie -- that General looks like a damn nice machine. For some reason, though, they don't seem to think height is a specification anyone would care about. Can't for the life of me figure out how tall the stupid thing is...QUOTE]

Yep, that's strange. But you can kinda guess from the table-height spec they do give. It is 36", and the top of the saw looks like it is less than twice that.

[Myk Rian]

Run a 230 line to the shop and branch off from a breaker box there. 30 amps ought to do it. That's all I use in my garage shop. I have 1 - 230 and 5 - 115 circuits.

[John Mark Lane]

If you need a serious Resaw BS, Take a look at the Hitachi CB75F 15 Amp 14-1/2-Inch Resaw Woodworking Band Saw, 115-Volt 1-Phase!
Pricy...but...it fits ALL your criteria.


Thanks, I didn't even know that machine existed. But the price tag of $3,300 (on amazon) is a bit out of my range. Oddly, reviews aren't even that favorable. Not that it matters. I can't sink that into a bandsaw for a small home shop... I always had good luck with Hitachi tools in the past. Had a planer/jointer that was great (but noisey as hell).

[John Mark Lane]

That amount of lighting should only use about 2 amps. You don't need a dedicated circuit for that - put it on some existing lighting circuit. You also may not actually need 2 separate runs for your 110V outlets - is it really likely that you'll be running more than 20A of tools at any one time?



I guess if you judge that it would be very difficult/expensive to add a 220 outlet, I don't mean to second-guess you, but hope you don't make big sacrifices when choosing a saw just to stick with 110.


:D
Actually, the smaller Laguna's are made in eastern europe and/or Asia. The prices may be off-putting, but they are still very nice saws...



I don't want the lights to dim when I turn on a machine. But yeah, I'll talk to my electrician. He's quite good, actually. Been using him for over a decade around here.

I know the Lagunas are made in several countries. It's more the design/engineering that concerns me. And dealing with an Italian company (sorry, but it's true). That said, I guess if there was a place I could go look at one I would do so. That's one of the sad things about today's market -- you can't go look at anything. You have to buy based on specs and internet reviews...

[Van Huskey]

I know the Lagunas are made in several countries. It's more the design/engineering that concerns me. And dealing with an Italian company (sorry, but it's true). That said, I guess if there was a place I could go look at one I would do so. That's one of the sad things about today's market -- you can't go look at anything. You have to buy based on specs and internet reviews...

I assume you know Laguna is as American as Powermatic or Grizzly, they are just importers. Also though not in your price range Italian bandsaws are THE bandsaws for woodworking! They definately build and engineer the best bandsaws. In the end Laguna saws tend to win just about every comparo they are in, well engineered and well executed.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I don't want the lights to dim when I turn on a machine.

I know the Lagunas are made in several countries. It's more the design/engineering that concerns me. And dealing with an Italian company (sorry, but it's true).

You may be able to add those extra lights to another lighting circuit elsewhere in the house. Also, fluorescents really don't dim - the electronic ballasts take care of the line voltage variations.

Laguna is an American company - they import from Italy, Bulgaria, China, etc. I'd suggest you at least take a look at their website and see if anything catches your eye.

[Dave MacArthur]

John Mark--
In your first post on band saws (which BTW, I do dearly love a band saw thread, and you've keep me interested all week, much thanks!) you said "but even ceiling height is sort of an issue -- just over 7 feet where heating ductwork cuts across." Leading me to believe that you have 84" in most places, and could certainly fit an 80" saw in if you picked the spot and stuck with it.

I think your best answer is the 17" G0513X2, 80" high, 2HP 110v OR 220v, 20A at 110v.

--edit: BTW, there is a Hitachi resaw BS, the one mentioned above, on sale on Phoenix CL for around 1200$ for over a month, it's in good shape. But I never see how that 1HP can work...


Amperage--
Actually, if you are AMP limited (100 A service), then HIGHER VOLTAGE (220) is better for you as you use less amps! You already HAVE a 220 v potential for supplying power, you're only using half of your available power if you're using only a 110v drop, and paying twice the Amperage cost. I'd be converting anything you could to 220v.

ALSO, almost all the grizzly specs I've seen bump the circuit required for their saws above what their motor specs would indicate. They likely do this for liability reasons--the NEC is very complicated, you can never be shown wrong in court if you tell everyone 30A even if the owner never reads another thing... but that doesn't mean YOU have to live with what some lawyer put for liability protection, you only have to "respect the NEC". However, remember that the circuit "size" is there ONLY TO PROTECT THE WIRING (and receptables), NOT the tool. If your circuit is run with 14 AWG wiring, then 15 A circuit is normal, receptacles should be sized 15A or greater, and you protect that wire to prevent a house-fire (from over-heated wires due to high current flow in them) with a 15 A circuit breaker.

BUT--- there is NOTHING "illegal" with running whatever you can on that 15 A circuit, or more realistically a 20A circuit in your case hopefully (if you have 12AWG wiring and 20A receptacles)! The NEC circuit-sizing limits are for protection of the WIRES, not the machine. If you can run a "2HP" motor on your 20A circuit, and the wires are properly protected, you might be good.

2 HP is 740 Watts X 2 or 1480 watts total. Assuming 110 VAC service, you would be drawing a running current of about 13.45 amps. However, start-up current could be much higher for a very short time and if high enough would trip the 15 amp breaker. You can get motor circuit breakers or "slow trip" that will accept a brief start up current higher and not trip, this is exactly what they're built for.

For motors 14 awg romex is allowed to carry 20 amps in the 60C column of table 310.16 NEC. And you can put a larger breaker like a 20 amp on that 14 awg to start your motor so long as the wire is big enough to handle the load, if it's a dedicated circuit.

Unfortunately 2 hp is a motor requiring 10 awg copper wired 115 volts if calculating from art. 430 of the NEC and using the FLC of table 430.248 x 1.25 safety factor. HOWEVER, those tables are for continuous duty service I believe, which I would not consider a residential use band saw. I wouldn't run 2HP on 14AWG/15A, but I'd be comfortable on a 20A circuit.

There are some real NEC wizards on the forum, who might chime in and surely know vastly more than me--I'm not an electrician. However, I have wired my garage with a sub-panel and fully wired my shop, did 6 months of research, and interacted quite a bit with the city inspector before inspection for permit etc, and asked a million questions in what is now the "workshops" forum here. You'd be amazed how easy it is to run a sub-panel off that existing panel to get some more spots.

Good luck. "Get the Griz". "Respect the NEC". "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes" etc...

[John Mark Lane]

John Mark--
In your first post on band saws (which BTW, I do dearly love a band saw thread, and you've keep me interested all week, much thanks!) you said "but even ceiling height is sort of an issue -- just over 7 feet where heating ductwork cuts across." Leading me to believe that you have 84" in most places, and could certainly fit an 80" saw in if you picked the spot and stuck with it.
..


Ugh, did I say just over 7 feet? Math never was my thing. :o I meant just over 70 inches. Actually the lowest point in the shop is about 78 inches where one duct passes through. The rest is over 7 feet. I'm just trying to be careful, as I may need to move the saw around in the space and it will also have a mobile base.

Anyway, thanks for the electrics info. I did mostly follow what you were saying. I guess I could make the Grizzly work. Time to get Mr. Electrician back here again to review the options. Still leaning toward the Rikon though at this point.

Thanks for all the input.