Is this worth pursuing, or junk?

[James Adinaro]

Not an expert in such things, so asking if it's worth pursuing.

When cleaning out my grandafther's old barn, I came across this long-ish hand plane. It had been in a cardboard box, in the dirt, jumbled with a bunch of other tools. I thought it was too far gone, and that I could just clean it up a bit and use it for decoration. So to clean it up, I disassembled it and did the vinegar bath thing. Most of the surface rust came right off, and it seems to be in a little better shape than I thought. The only prolbem with the sole is a very small (pinhead size) chip in the mouth *behind* the blade.

When I got it cleaned off, I saw that the blade had the Sweetheart logo. That was a nice surprise. I also saw that it was a No. 6, which I don't have one of. (Have a LN 7, which is the closest). But there is no "Stanley" anywhere on the plane. There is an "S" underneath where the tote would go.

So the questions are:

1: Is this a Stanley Sweethart #6, or have I got some kind of Franken-plane?

2: The tote is in several parts, some of them gone, and the knob was MIA from the start. Would the replacement kits from Highland fit?

3: Should I replace the blade too? I haven't tried sharpening the blade yet, but compared to my other planes, the blade and chipbreaker seem flimsy.

4: Is it even worth it? New knob and tote are about $40. New blade and chipbreaker even more (I don't have any sentimental attachment to the plane - grandfather wasn't a woodworker, he worked HVAC. Think he just happened to have it.)

[David Weaver]

Not an expert on stanley planes, but it does look like a stanley frog.

Parts planes are tough to make a call on - they're best used, usually, for parts - because - well, they sometimes cost more to get going than the worth of what you have in the end.

I throw a plane to parts if I don't have everything on hand to make it good. if you have a front post, it looks like all you need to do is make or buy a tote and knob and do a little bit of cleaning. The japanning, etc, is worn, but there's nothing about it that suggests it should take a long time to get it in shape.

You should be able to come across a replacement stanley chipbreaker and iron pretty cheap if you don't want to buy a premium iron and chipbreaker.

Also, tote and knob are easier than you think if you have a lathe and a cheap half-round rasp, though that thought is more useful if you have plans to make more than one chipbreaker and knob. I generally don't like the replacement kits - they're made to be a jack of all trades, and they look funny. Walnut is a good compromise if you make your own because it's dark, soft and cheap. If you're going to buy, I would buy a junk plane that someone wasn't smart enough to strip, take the tote and knob off of it, and then strip the rest of the good parts and keep them for future use.

[Joe Cunningham]

I have a couple #6s with original blades/chipbreakers. They work just fine, not sure why everyone feels the need to change them out. I also have a SW-era #4 and it works almost as well as my bronze LN4. I use it for smoothing tasks on easily planed wood because the edge retention isn't as good as the LN.

I use the #6s like fore planes with pretty cambered irons, and they do a great job of hogging off wood.

Try making your own knob and tote and you will save some $$$, plus it is fun.

I'd have to look at my #6s to see if they have stanley anyplace except on the blade. I only recall that "No 6" up front.

[James Scheffler]

Not an expert in such things, so asking if it's worth pursuing.

When cleaning out my grandafther's old barn, I came across this long-ish hand plane. It had been in a cardboard box, in the dirt, jumbled with a bunch of other tools. I thought it was too far gone, and that I could just clean it up a bit and use it for decoration. So to clean it up, I disassembled it and did the vinegar bath thing. Most of the surface rust came right off, and it seems to be in a little better shape than I thought. The only prolbem with the sole is a very small (pinhead size) chip in the mouth *behind* the blade.

When I got it cleaned off, I saw that the blade had the Sweetheart logo. That was a nice surprise. I also saw that it was a No. 6, which I don't have one of. (Have a LN 7, which is the closest). But there is no "Stanley" anywhere on the plane. There is an "S" underneath where the tote would go.

So the questions are:

1: Is this a Stanley Sweethart #6, or have I got some kind of Franken-plane?

2: The tote is in several parts, some of them gone, and the knob was MIA from the start. Would the replacement kits from Highland fit?

3: Should I replace the blade too? I haven't tried sharpening the blade yet, but compared to my other planes, the blade and chipbreaker seem flimsy.

4: Is it even worth it? New knob and tote are about $40. New blade and chipbreaker even more (I don't have any sentimental attachment to the plane - grandfather wasn't a woodworker, he worked HVAC. Think he just happened to have it.)

I like my Stanley No. 6 a lot. It gets a lot of use.

Check the lateral adjustment lever to see if it says Stanley. The inscription is usually pretty faint, so it's easy to miss. Some of them may have a patent date instead, but that's another clue anyway.

The threaded rod and nut that hold on the front knob are a non-standard thread size. I have a couple derelict Union and Dunlop planes, and I recently checked to see if the threaded rods from those planes would fit into a Stanley casting. They were close enough. So if you can find a junker plane that still has its front knob, you may be able to use the same hardware and maybe the same knob as well.

The chip behind the mouth shouldn't be a problem.

Jim S.

[Jim Koepke]

Looks like it may be an early type 7.

Is there an S under the lever cap or the frog? The blade was most likely replaced at a later date. If the chip breaker looks to be black on the underside, then it is likely the original. The chip breaker underside coating stopped around type 10 or 11.

If the chip at the mouth is not terribly big, this could be made into a good user scrub plane or the fore plane it was made to be.

If one trolls ebay long enough you can usually find a tote and knob for around $30 including the shipping.

I would offer to sell a set, but I am a little short on supply of decent totes and knobs at the moment. I am actually debating the idea of making my own.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

The threaded rod and nut that hold on the front knob are a non-standard thread size.

Stanley used 12-20 threads for the tote and knob rods. The screw at the front of the tote and the frog screws are also of this thread size and pitch.

jim

[Josh Bowman]

As I'm now learning, that is a good candidate for a shooting plane. If you have no real attachment to it, this is a good opportunity to modify it and put a handle on the side for shooting.

[James Scheffler]

Stanley used 12-20 threads for the tote and knob rods. The screw at the front of the tote and the frog screws are also of this thread size and pitch.

jim

Come to think about it, my friend who needed a replacement threaded rod mentioned that it was actually the rod diameter that was nonstandard. Does that sound right? I can't remember what size he said it was, but he had looked for it (including St. James Bay Tools) and couldn't find it.

Jim S.

[Jeremy Dorn]

Being that its an heirloom type plane with family history (even if grandpa wasn't actually a woodworker), I'd say who cares if some of the parts might be mismated, I'd say replace what needs replacing and put it back into a place of honor in the shop. Tools with family histories shouldn't have their values measured by how perfectly everything meets up to some type study.

You should be able to fashion yourself a new knob/tote pretty easily from a wood of your choosing, or procure a vintage (or new) replacment from either eBay or several other reputable vendors.

The screws you need are also relatively easily acquired by putzing around on ebay for a little while. I'd imagine you'd only have 50$ into restoring it to working condition if you bought a new tote/knob set, or 20$ if you made them yourself. If you've never made knobs/totes before I'd recommend trying your hand at it, there's really nothing to lose, if you dont like your first attempt just try again until you get some you like.

Also, being that its a #6 I really wouldnt worry about trying to get a replacment blade/chipbreaker. A Fore plane is meant to be more of a roughing tool, like a big jack. Save your money and simply sharpen up the blade that's on it (assuming there's still usable length remaining), it will be more than adequate for the tasks. I have several #6's and I've never entertained upgrading the blade, and havent regretted it. Its not a smoother, so the tolerances involved are alot more forgiving.

JD

[Mike Siemsen]

If you are not in a hurry you can wait for another parts plane to come along. You can probably get an entire plane in decent condition from e-bay for $40 including shipping. Post on here an anybody got any #6 parts thread and you will probably find what you want. I wouldn't spend much money on fixing it up but I would wait and watch for parts to come along.
Mike

[jerry nazard]

Come to think about it, my friend who needed a replacement threaded rod mentioned that it was actually the rod diameter that was nonstandard. Does that sound right? I can't remember what size he said it was, but he had looked for it (including St. James Bay Tools) and couldn't find it.

Jim S.

The rod diameter is 7/32 with a 20 tpi thread. A 1/4" rod diameter is usually associated with 20 tpi (1/4-20) and a 7/32 rod usually has a 24 tpi thread (12-24).

[David Weaver]

I would offer to sell a set, but I am a little short on supply of decent totes and knobs at the moment. I am actually debating the idea of making my own.

jim

I would. You can use a new turning blank for the knob, and a matching type board for the tote.

I somehow came into macassar ebony boards 5-6" wide and a little over an inch thick for about $15 a board foot, and I found turning blanks online for about $27 for a 6x6x2, enough to make 6 knobs. You can figure the cost - it's probably about $10 per knob and tote set.

They obviously don't look original, but if it's not a rare or exceptional condition plane, who cares? They look great.

I have some other stuff I wanted to try, like black palm, but I ran out of planes. Probably wouldn't work that well on a rasp, but it polishes really nicely for how splintery it is. Might be worth sanding things out.

Mike W's tutorial on rasping helps get the job done faster and a lot neater than just rasping away - it's hard to screw up using his method. That's probably not all news to you, but someone else might get something out of it.

The only rasps/files I usually use on stanley totes are the cheap LV hand cut rasp (well, that's a relative term, but it is a nice all-purpose rasp that's pretty fast cutting but a file easily removes its marks) followed by a common simonds file. I did the same thing for the infill tote that I posted last week, except I used a sawmaker's rasp for the final rasping in the enclosure.

[Charlie Buchanan]

Stanley type 7's from the 1890's usually have an S cast in the base. If your No 6 is a type 7 then the Sweetheart iron is a later replacement. But don't be too quick to replace it. Sharpening and tuning up the chipbreaker can make it work very well indeed. Looks like there is good length left.
Looks like you have the rod and brass for the tote. If you want to make a tote LV offers a free .pdf download of a template and instructions. Well worth the time to download it. It will show you how to get the angled holes drilled correctly and dimensions right.
Assuming none of the castings are broken or mismatched this would make a great user foreplane.

[Jim Koepke]

I would. You can use a new turning blank for the knob, and a matching type board for the tote.

[snip]



I bought a cut off piece of 4/4 X 8 rosewood with the thought of making a saw handle and a tote, just need one of them magical round tuits.

I also have some rosewood turning squares, but since I have a few knobs that need either some minor gluing and a couple of repaired totes and a bunch of parts I have not been in a hurry. I do need a saw handle though for a saw I am making, so that will likely be first.


As I'm now learning, that is a good candidate for a shooting plane. If you have no real attachment to it, this is a good opportunity to modify it and put a handle on the side for shooting.

My gosh, forgot about how a #6 is almost a natural for shooting.

Here is a thread on a handle I made and then modified for use on a #5-1/2 and a #6 to use on a shooting board:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1315201#poststop

Derek Cohen made a hot dog that inspired me and it is on his web site:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com

There is also a post by Terry Beadle on his Hot Dog...No mustard for even another idea on installing a handle for shooting without modifying the plane.

Since purchasing a plane for the purpose of shooting my memories of using a #6 a lot on the shooting board has faded. That happens when you get older, or so they say.

o¿o-
. ˇ

jim

[James Adinaro]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. Sounds like I'll be keeping it, and trying to restore it to some use. Answers to a couple of questions:

1: Other than the large "S" and smaller "s" under the tote, there are no other markings on the body. There is a "337" stamped into the Sweetheart blade though.

2: The chipbreaker did not appear to have been black on the underside. Although there's not much black left anywhere on the plane at this point.

Interesting to hear that the plane may be older than my grandfather. Makes it a little more intriguing. Grandpa is still alive - but as he doesn't remember me, I doubt he will remember the plane.

Thanks again to all!