Question about buffing techniques

[Greg Taylor]

I have a newbie question about how and when to buff...or rather...what can be buffed. I'm wondering what kind of finish can be applied before using the three-step beall-type buffing methodology. It seems that the white diamond would lift a bunch of finish off again. But if a finish that soaked in, like a danish oil, was applied could that then be buffed? What happens if you leave out the white diamond step. I'm eagter to hear any and all advice on what can be buffed and how...thanks!

[Mike Minto]

Greg, I've been buffing my work for a year or so now, and never understood what a big difference it can make in the appearance of a turning. That said, I've not made all that many turnings, so...I think almost any turning can be buffed, depending on the look desired (shiny, rather than rustic or textured). I use Tripoli and White Diamond followed by Renaissance wax that I machine buff - have gotten away from carnauba as the Ren wax is harder/fingerprint resistant. I've found out thru bitter experience that a piece with open pores in the wood (like walnut) or pith (cherry or other) will take the white compound in and show it, really lousing up the piece. Compressed air may get rid of some of it, but not all :mad:. I've started to take pieces with pith or other really open grain and filling with epoxy mixed with coffee grounds, then buffing after sanding. Open grain will take in fibers from the buffing wheels, too - don't know any way around that. On dark woods I'm afraid will pick up the white, I have another compound that I got from Caswell, a metal plating company. Works almost as good as white diamond. Hope this, and the other opinions you certainly get here help!

[Doug Wolf]

Greg, I use Watco Danish oil on most of my work and let it sit for a couple of weeks before buffing. I usually skip the white diamond on walnut.

[Frank Van Atta]

I always apply at least one coat of 1 lb. cut shellac before going to the buffing wheels, and I haven't had any trouble with Tripoli (light woods) or White Diamond (dark woods) sticking in the pores. You generally don't want to skip the White Diamond step; it cleans up the residue left by the Tripoli.

[Rich Stewart]

I LOVE that Biel buffing system. I like to use it on bare wood. Olivewood, cocobolo, cedar, and many others need no finish and buff up to a really nice shine. Best money I ever spent.

[Scott Hussey]

Greg, I use Watco Danish oil on most of my work and let it sit for a couple of weeks before buffing. I usually skip the white diamond on walnut.

I am also a novice turner/buffer and have the Beal system. I have tried using natural danish oil and buffing(tripoli, diamond and wax) and it didn't seem to do much to produce that glossy shine I was looking for.

I have since tried putting a coat of wipe on semi-gloss poly over the danish oil, then buffed and that seems to produce a shinier finish that I was after.

My question for you all is how do you get a good shine just on Watco Danish oil, or do you all put laquer, shellac, etc over the danish oil to get a shiny finish?

Thx

Rookie turner and finisher

[Steve Kubien]

Scott, on a lot of the urn I make I put rattle-can lacquer over Watco if I want a higher shine.

As for what can and cannot be buffed, I hear a lot of people talk about the horrors of using the white diamond on woods like walnut. I've got a pretty simple solution to that...wet sand the walnut with Watco or walnut oil. The sanding slurry fills the pores and helps make the piece silky smooth, after buffing.

[Doug Wolf]

[QUOTE=Scott Hussey;1416698]I am also a novice turner/buffer and have the Beal system. I have tried using natural danish oil and buffing(tripoli, diamond and wax) and it didn't seem to do much to produce that glossy shine I was looking for.

I have since tried putting a coat of wipe on semi-gloss poly over the danish oil, then buffed and that seems to produce a shinier finish that I was after.

My question for you all is how do you get a good shine just on Watco Danish oil, or do you all put laquer, shellac, etc over the danish oil to get a shiny finish?


Scott, I used Watco Natural Danish Oil on the items in the picture. I didn't follow the directions on the can. I apply the oil on the lid while still on the lathe (lathe is stopped), lid is being held to the bottom with blue painters tape. After it evaporates off (about 20 minutes) and has a tacky consistancy I use the paper towel I applied it with and burn it in until it's dry to the touch. Repeat the above procedure. Then run the tailstock up to the lid with a pad (I use the toe of a sock over a wood adaptor I thread on the tail center). Now apply the oil the same way on the sides of the box. Repeat making sure the oil floods the end grain pores. Take the box off the lathe and reverse vacuum chuck the bottom. Clean up the tenon it was mounted with and oil the bottom once. Let sit 2 weeks and triple buff.
If it looks like it needs more oil during the two weeks I might oil it in the morning and 4 hrs later wipe it off. It is almost a gummy consistancy by then but it fills the pores so I can buff it to a shine in a couple weeks.

[Richard Madison]

Any film-forming finish like lacquer and the various varnishes can be buffed, some more aggressively than others. Many different materials and procedures depending on what you are trying to achieve. I often lightly buff gloss lacquer finishes with a white compound. Does little to increase the already high gloss, but improves the "feel" of the piece in the hand by removing those microscopic stick-ups.

[Cathy Schaewe]

I've been doing several (7-8?) coats of Tung oil (not really, it's formby's), low gloss, on walnut. I just got the Beale system, and haven't had any problems buffing with the tripoli and then the white diamond. Nothing left in the pores. Maybe it's an aberration, but I tried 5 different pieces, no problem. Based on everybody else's experience, I'm guessing it's beginner's luck. Anybody have a substitute for the white diamond, that won't show up in dark wood?

[Richard Madison]

As Cathy implies, if you build enough finish material to fill and seal the wood pores, then the white compound is no problem.

[Greg Taylor]

Thanks everyone...very helpful stuff as always.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Greg - in addition to all the fine advise about buffing - remember that the surface of the wood really determines how glossy a piece can get. If you are after glossy - be sure to spend the time sanding through all the grits before you start applying any finish.

Another thing to keep in mind - buffing speed. Some folks will warn you not to buff through the finish. By turning the buffing speed down to 800 rpm or so - you can buff the finish without generating a lot of heat or buffing through your finish.

Like Mike - I have switched over to using Renaissance Wax only. Makes a big difference - to me.

[Cathy Schaewe]

On dark woods I'm afraid will pick up the white, I have another compound that I got from Caswell, a metal plating company. Works almost as good as white diamond.

What's it called?

[Allen Neighbors]

My question for you all is how do you get a good shine just on Watco Danish oil, or do you all put laquer, shellac, etc over the danish oil to get a shiny finish?Thx
Rookie turner and finisher

Scott, If the danish oil is cured, and it doesn't shine, there are possibly two problems: Either the piece wasn't sanded well enough, or there wasn't enough Danish Oil applied. I'm not trying to cast aspersions, here; I'm just trying to explain what I think could be the problem.
When you apply a wet coat of DO, if it soaks in fairly quickly, that means the wood is either soft, or fairly porous, or both, and it'll take a lot more oil if you want a glossy shine. I apply the DO until it quits soaking in, if I want a glossy shine on a utility piece.
Some turner (I can't remember his name) turns a lot of Norfolk Island Pine, and makes very translucent vessels, using only DO. He dips the piece in the DO, and lets it sit a day, then dips it again, repeating the process over and over.
If you want DO to make a very glossy shine, you have to apply several coats, allowing it to set a day or two between coats, and keep applying it until it's stopped soaking in (after a while the oil sets up in, and fills the pores so it won't absorb as much the next time). Then you have to wipe off the excess, and let it cure... in my area, it takes at least a week in the dry summer, and longer in the winter, to cure.
If I turn a non-utility piece, and I want gloss, I spray pre-catalized lacquer. After a few days curing time, I always buff using Tripoli, White Diamond, and Carnauba. If a lacquer finish comes off from buffing, it's because I didn't let it cure well first, or I've used too much pressure when buffing. Too much pressure with Tripoli or White Diamond either will take off even an Epoxy finish (light touch when buffing).
On darker pieces, like Black Walnut, I wet sand with Danish Oil on the last three grits - 220, 320, 400 - which fills the pores of the wood, and allows me to use the White Diamond buff without leaving white specks in the pores.
The Tripoli is used to take away the scratches left by 400 grit sandpaper.
The White Diamond is used to take away the scratches left by the Tripoli.
And the Wax Buff takes away, or fills, those almost unseen scratches that are left by the White Diamond.
If one has Tripoli left on the piece after buffing with the Tripoli wheel, I think the wheel may have been loaded a little too heavy. Likewise, on the White Diamond. And if carnauba fingerprints, it's got too much wax on it.
This isn't set in stone for all people... it's what I've learned over the last few years, and it's what works for me.
Hope this helps a little.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I am also a novice turner/buffer and have the Beal system. I have tried using natural danish oil and buffing(tripoli, diamond and wax) and it didn't seem to do much to produce that glossy shine I was looking for.

I have since tried putting a coat of wipe on semi-gloss poly over the danish oil, then buffed and that seems to produce a shinier finish that I was after.

My question for you all is how do you get a good shine just on Watco Danish oil, or do you all put laquer, shellac, etc over the danish oil to get a shiny finish?

Thx

Rookie turner and finisher

Scott I don't use Watco, but Polymerized tung oil from Lee Valley, but I believe Watco also has tung oil in it, the tung oil does take a while to get hard enough before you be able to buff it.
I will put on several coats, but let every coat dry at least a day before putting the next coat on it, then wait a week or longer before buffing it, it will buff up real well, I'm not much for real plasticky shine, so that's the reason for an oil finish rather than poly and the like.
Here are two pictures of buffed Tung oil finishes


Sorry Allan, I should have read your post first, as you covered it already, and yes I think we do agree on the way to use the oil finish :D