Wenzloff & Sons Kit Build x4

[Andrew Gibson]

My Wenzloff & Sons Saw Kits arrived this mourning via FedEx. Included are 4 saw plates and the necessary handle templates. Missing are the Saw nuts and bolts. A quick email to Mike and an even quicker reply says that the missing hardware will be to me by this weekend. Talk about customer service!
Now the fun part, here is what I ordered.
2 panel saws. 1 8ppi rip and 1 10ppi x-cut, both 22" long
1 Large tenon saw 10ppi rip 16" long
1 carcass saw 15ppi x-cut

I have to decide which order to build them in, but I am thinking that smallest to largest should work well, as the large tenon will be done to cut the kerfs for the panel saws :)

I have aquired a bunch of tools that I will assemble for a pic soon, and a nice chunk of curly hard maple for the handles. I think the finish will be a few coats of danish oil and a few coats of amber shellac. I have a couple finish samples in progress... I am going to try to keep these builds a neander as possible But I am pretty sure I will be using the Drill press for drilling the holes in the saw plates. and handles.

Now for some pics.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0762.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0764.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0763.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0766.jpg

The last pic is a fun one to show the size of the large tenon saw plate in comparison to my Lie Nielsen dovetail saw... I can't wait to use this beast!
If I leave out anything please ask, Im going to do my best in this thread to be a complete as possible.

Now it's off to the shop to get started!

[David Weaver]

I really like the large tenon saw you chose.

I absolutely would use a drill press, too, speaking from experience of dealing without one to make planes - it's especially problematic to use a hand drill to drill hardened metal, no matter how you do it. I wish I had the room for one.

Neander is nice if it pleases you as a principle, but you really have to be satisfied with the final product and happy with your efforts first and do that second in my experience.

If you execute on those saws, I don't see how you will be any less than totally tickled. There's almost nothing as satisfying in the shop as having a hand in making your own tools.

[Rick Markham]

Those are PUUUUUURDY!!! Good selection, I am looking forward to watching this one! Now I just need to make an order to Wenzloff & Sons... Too many tools, too little time!:rolleyes:

[Andrew Gibson]

Well here is the tool shot. Got everything out and for the pic. After spending the afternoon working on a handle there are about 10-12 more tools on the bench in not so orderly a configuration, and most covered in saw and rasp dust.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0771.jpg

Now before the next pick of the first handle I must say this... I decided I don't Like it.
Well I like it but I want to make a couple changes.
First I don't Like the way the chamfers by the saw back turned out so I am going to make a new handle and change them up a bit. The other change is the top curve nearest the saw plate. I want to modify the curve and make it tighter. part of the reason for this is the notch that the back sets against chipped away on me and I can not live with that either.
On a side note the gramercy saw handle makers rasp is worth every penny.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0779.jpg
Lets Just call this one practice. now I know what not to do and what order to not do it in, in order to aviod chipping out the parts that everyone would notice chipped out.
Not sure if you can see the the chipout that I tried to clean up and the chamfer I dont like but you can at least get an idea of how these are going to look.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0783.jpg

[Rick Markham]

Looks like ya have gotten a lot done, even if it is just practice ;) Hopefully I will get to pick up a couple rasps tomorrow, we shall see. Is that the 16" tennon saw? That sure is slick!

[Andrew Gibson]

Looks like ya have gotten a lot done, even if it is just practice ;) Hopefully I will get to pick up a couple rasps tomorrow, we shall see. Is that the 16" tennon saw? That sure is slick!

Thats the 12" carcass. The 16" gets a closed handle. I actually slid that handle on the 16" and it was so small on it, it looked funny.

[Andrew Gibson]

End of day update. I made some really good progress today. Really, I think I got as far on the back saw handles as I can without the nuts and bolts. and I am afraid I don't want to get to deep into the panel saw handles until I at least get the large tenon saw done so I can use it to cut the kerf for the panel saws. I still have all the sanding to do, but can't do that until the drilling is done.
OK enough rambling, time for some pics.

I used some spray adhesive to put the template on the blank, it has worked quite well so far, then I just eyeball the lines on the other side for the shaping.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0791.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0794.jpg

Still working on the little details around the saw back, i have them to where I am happy but I need to wait till I get some of the sanding done to really finish them off.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0798.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0795.jpg
If there are any details you would like to see let me know.

It's really pretty straight forward to shape, I just knock off the corner then grab the saw makers rasp and bring the curve down to the line on the pattern then round it in to the center line. once you get going it goes pretty quick.

the one thing I learned was it's easier to make the kerf and mortise for the blade before you start shaping because you can leave a little more meat then clean it up when you do the shaping.

I used a chisel to clean up the curves on the outside of the handles and get into the tight places and make everything nice and tight.

for the lambs tongue I used a chisel and a triangle file. It turned out to be easier then I thought it would. a V chisel would have made it even easier.

[Johnny Kleso]

Looks great and your knocking out quickly......

[george wilson]

I hope you made copies of the saw handle drawings before using them up.

[Andrew Gibson]

I hope you made copies of the saw handle drawings before using them up.

Sure did. My printer is one of those printer/scanner/copier ones, so the first thing I did was make extra copes of each drawing, so I would have at least one copy for reference/file.

[C Scott McDonald]

Have to ask a basic question. What did you use to cut the slots in the handles for the blades? I wouls assume it would have to be really straight.

Thanks,
Scott

[Andrew Gibson]

Have to ask a basic question. What did you use to cut the slots in the handles for the blades? I wouls assume it would have to be really straight.

Thanks,
Scott

I used my LN dovetail saw. I marked out the cut with a marking gauge from both sides to make sure I was centered, then slowly worked my way arould the cut then finished to depth.

I have to wait till I get the tenon saw done so I can use it to cut the kerf for the panel saws, because the dovetail saw will not cut deep enough. I may use the DT saw to start the cut though.

[Andrew Gibson]

YAY! saw nuts arrived in the mail today, off to the BORG for a couple nice new drill bits.

My LN saw nut driver is a little bigger then the slot in the nuts, I guess I will have to grind it down a bit... Maybe I will see if I can find a flat head bit of small spade bit to grind down first. I hate to graind down my brand new LN driver.

[Johnny Kleso]

Dont grind your bit make a new driver from a razor blade..

If you have a grinder you can shape a razor blade and use lock pliers to tighten the nuts..

Blunt the razor blade for the first op so you dont get cut..

Also to cut slots in handle blank you can mill up a block of wood - 1/2 of the saw blade thickness lay that on your bench> lay saw on top > clamp both to table.. Then pressing handle against bench top and saw slot moving handle..

You would try to find same sized kerfed saw as the slot you are cutting for best fit...

Also when drilling this harden spring steel drill it at a slow speed, use a 1/8"pilot hole then the 3/16"or what ever size I think Mike uses a 4mm (".157) if I remember correctly.. Also CLAMP DOWN HANDLE AND SAW! when you drill thin metal it will grap and try to lift the stock and spin it like a propeller..

[Sam Fan]

YAY! saw nuts arrived in the mail today, off to the BORG for a couple nice new drill bits.

My LN saw nut driver is a little bigger then the slot in the nuts, I guess I will have to grind it down a bit... Maybe I will see if I can find a flat head bit of small spade bit to grind down first. I hate to graind down my brand new LN driver.

For a saw nut driver I used a cheap 1/2"-ish spade bit, one with a hole in it. Then I cut off the tip of it with a hacksaw and re-shaped with a mill file. (idea borrowed from pedder's website) It even has a quick change 1/4" drill-chuck-bit-end-thing so I can use it in a quick change chuck handle - if that makes any sense.

Sam

[Paul Incognito]

I've been following this thread and I'm looking forward to seeing the finished saws. The handles look spectacular so far!
Sam, thanks for the tip to use a spade bit. I've got dozens of trash bits that I haven't been able to throw away, now I know what to do with at least one of them.
PI

[Andrew Gibson]

Updates tonight. I found that the bit to use for the bolts is 11/64" I grabbed two 5/32 bits at the borg and one the next size up. I need to go back and return one of the 5/32 bits and grab an 1/8 or so pilot. I was using a couple of old small bits I had to drill the centering/pilot holes and I broke 2 of them in the plate. and it was a pita to finish the holes, but I figured it out... no more old bits.

I started with the open handle and was working on the square mortise for the saw bolt and I split the handle... GRRRR...... I took the saw plate out and didn't use my head. now I'm back to square one on that saw...

On the plus side I have the Large tenon saw ready for sanding. All 3 bolts in with no problems. Here is a pic with my finger prints all over the plate... this one is ready for sanding.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0802.jpg

I had a subtle thought on how to distinguish between rip and x-cut saws.
I am putting the nuts (slotted side) on the left side on the rip saws and on the right on the x-cut saws.

Things to remember
Leave the saw plate in when cutting the mortise for the bolts and dont use a mallet.
always use new drill bits.

[Andrew Gibson]

Well I made a little more progress today. I finally got the open tote for the carcass saw fitted and drilled. I dont want to remember how much of a PITA that one was. It was weird because the big tenon saw drilled with no problems. I ended up roughing out a new open handle and fitting the saw blade first and getting it all drilled, then I started the shaping.

I have sanded the closed tote for the large tenon saw to 220 and have a coat or 2 of danish oil on it. tomorrow given time allows I will get the final sanding done on it than most likely give it another day or so before giving it a few coats of shellac.

I started this morning by turning a 1/2" spade bit into a split nut driver. It turned out pretty good.

OK here are a few pics from today.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0804.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0805.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0807.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0808.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0810.jpg

[Andrew Gibson]

Well I got a little work done over the weekend, and my aunt arrived yesterday from Ireland so I have not been at it to hard, but I guess slow is the nature of finishing. It's probably for the best because I needed a break from roughing out handles.

So I had the first handle coated with a few coats of amber shellac on one and I just was not happy with it, I tried a few tricks, but still was not Happy. So I thought Lets see what 2 tone would look like. So I cut back the sides and put on a coat of waterlox. I think I really like this look as the waterlox seems to have really brought out the subtle figure in the natural maple. I have never seen a "high end" handle done like this so I hope I'm not breaking some unspoken rule

Let me know what you think, the open tote needs another coat or two to get it to match the closed tote, then a final cut back and the varnish.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0811.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0813.jpg

[Andrew Gibson]

How about a couple more pics from today. I got the first of the panel saws under way. That makes the count 3 out of 4 on there way to being usable.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0816.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0818.jpg

[Andrew Recher]

Let me know what you think,

I don't think I care for that finish. Everything else is looking great. I'll be watching to see them all lined up for a nice "glamour shot" when they're done.

Andy

[Johnny Kleso]

If your going to make more saws a soild carbide drill like the one below is the was to go...
http://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/metaldrills/8944a.gif
About $15 each
No pilot needed, drill at high speed..

Also if you use HSS twist drills, drill pilot hole slow speed so that tip is just starting out the other side then change speeds to a medium speed it might help with grabing and breaking..

If you have a older styled drill press with two nuts on a threaded rod as a quill stop you can increase stop depth a liittle at a time every peck of the drill.. This is the best way to stop drills from grabing as they break through the other side and works great with drilling tiny holes...

Another way is to predrill the handle with pilots and drill from both sides to middle..

Andy,
Nice nut driver :)

[Rick Markham]

Looking Fantastic Andrew! You have gotten a whole lot done! I really like the two tone handle too, that would be another good way to differentiate between your rip and crosscut saws, do all of one or the other in two tone! I haven't gotten to do much in the shop recently, though I did get a handle cut out for my Disston no.7, Now I just need to pick up some rasps that are worth a durn to try my hand a shaping them. Yours have turned out quite amazing!

[Joe McMahon]

YAY! saw nuts arrived in the mail today, off to the BORG for a couple nice new drill bits.

My LN saw nut driver is a little bigger then the slot in the nuts, I guess I will have to grind it down a bit... Maybe I will see if I can find a flat head bit of small spade bit to grind down first. I hate to graind down my brand new LN driver.

I have made several of Mike's saws and learned the hard way that a driver that doesn't fit EXACTLY in the slots just messes up the job. Experience led me to an excellent split nut driver at http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=GT-SNSD&Category_Code=&Search=saw%20nut for $9 (add your own handle).

It fits Wenzloff split nuts like a glove and ended the slippage & scratching of split nuts. Good investment to be sure IMHO.

Joe

[Russell Sansom]

Andrew,
I like your handle and don't at the same time. It's a little disturbing. But I love a bright spruce violin top and never stain guitar tops.
How would that amber look with dark sides?

[Andrew Gibson]

Joe Thanks for the recommendation of the Nut driver, fortunately the one I made is working like a champ.

Andy and Russel, just curious what it is about the 2 tone that you not liking?
Russel I think I see what your saying, that a darker color on the sides would be your taste? I personally Like the color of the amber so I think I will stick to that, just curious what everyone else is thinking.

Rick, If you make it out to the Tampa Woodcraft's meeting on the 20Th I hope to bring them along to show them off. I'm hoping to have them all done by then.

[Jim Koepke]

Put me down as liking the two tone, to heck with a tradition that may or may not exist.

My days have been so loaded with garden work that my only time in the shop has been to retrieve tools and other items needed in the greenhouse.

jim

[Andrew Gibson]

First saw done. Just needs a final set and file.
It's a shame that the figure in the maple really done not come out in the pics.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0820-1.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0821-1.jpghttp://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0822-1.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0823-2.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0824-1.jpg

[Roy Wall]

Beautiful work Andrew!

[Charlie Gummer]

Gorgeous! I really like the two-tone.

[Andrew Gibson]

Finished up the carcass saw this mornig...
More Pics!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0830.jpghttp://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0829.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0826.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0831.jpg

[Paul Incognito]

And I like the two tone.
PI

[Johnny Kleso]

They look super :)

[Rick Markham]

Man that has turned out great Andrew, I really like how the two tone turned out too! I actually have gotten most of my handle done for the Disston, I just have some holes to drill and some final shaping on the outer edges, I just finished cutting the kerf for the blade. I will have to post a couple pics, I am pretty pleased how mine is coming along (especially since it is my first one).

I definitely second that the Gramercy saw handle makers rasp is worth every penny! That thing is phenominal!!! I basically "flew by the seat of my pants" on all the chamfers, and they have turned out flawless. We will see if I can avoid botching the job on drilling the handle ;) If I do... This conversation never happened :D

[Andrew Gibson]

I tried to post these earlier, I guess I forgot to hit submit reply.
I have the 3rd handle done, and the final handle in finish and final sanding stage.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0833.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0836.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0837.jpg

[Andrew Gibson]

Well I have the last handle almost done, hopefully tomorrow.

I went to the Tampa Woodcrafters meeting tonight and brought along my 3 saws for show and tell. They were very well recieved. I was actually asked to do a demonstration on making a saw handle in a future meeting. I said I would enjoy doing so, I guess this is how you start becoming the guy that knows everything...

[Andrew Gibson]

Finally finished up the last handle this morning.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0840.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0838.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0841-1.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0842-1.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0843.jpg
Hopefully I have the right saw for the job now. I can't believe I went for so long with basically no hand saws.

[Sam Fan]

Looks awesome. I think you're all set! :)
Good work, and thanks for sharing.