Festool Fans, which sander should I pick up?

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

I'm convinced on the merits of the Festool sanders and need to replace my dying Makita 5" ROS. I'm not a woodworking professional, just a hobbyist and have managed to get through most projects just using my old ROS and hand sanding. I do wide variety of project sizes.

That said, I'd like to pickup a Festool sander, but reviewing the options I get paralyzed while trying to make a choice. My questions to those that know are simple:
1. If you were to own only 1 Festool sander, which one would it be?
2. Is buying the vacuum system crucial for proper dust extraction (very important to me) or can I simply hook a shop vac to it?
3. Assuming the vacuum is crucial, that introduces another part number choice. Which vac is the best to get?

Thank you in advance.

[Jason White]

If you only get one, get the 6" ROTEX 150. Best damned sander on the planet!!

I love mine (can you tell??)! :D

Jason


I'm convinced on the merits of the Festool sanders and need to replace my dying Makita 5" ROS. I'm not a woodworking professional, just a hobbyist and have managed to get through most projects just using my old ROS and hand sanding. I do wide variety of project sizes.

That said, I'd like to pickup a Festool sander, but reviewing the options I get paralyzed while trying to make a choice. My questions to those that know are simple:
1. If you were to own only 1 Festool sander, which one would it be?
2. Is buying the vacuum system crucial for proper dust extraction (very important to me) or can I simply hook a shop vac to it?
3. Assuming the vacuum is crucial, that introduces another part number choice. Which vac is the best to get?

Thank you in advance.

[Vijay Kumar]

I'm convinced on the merits of the Festool sanders and need to replace my dying Makita 5" ROS. I'm not a woodworking professional, just a hobbyist and have managed to get through most projects just using my old ROS and hand sanding. I do wide variety of project sizes.

That said, I'd like to pickup a Festool sander, but reviewing the options I get paralyzed while trying to make a choice. My questions to those that know are simple:
1. If you were to own only 1 Festool sander, which one would it be?
2. Is buying the vacuum system crucial for proper dust extraction (very important to me) or can I simply hook a shop vac to it?
3. Assuming the vacuum is crucial, that introduces another part number choice. Which vac is the best to get?

Thank you in advance.

Depends on whether you want a finishing sander or a general purpose sander.
For a finish sander the ETS 150/3 is fantastic. You can sand all day (well practically).
For general purpose sanding it has to be the Rotex 150, that can switch between aggressive mode and a finish mode.

The nice thing is that both the ETS/150 and the Rotex 150 use the same size abrasive sheets. Also with Festool you have 1 month to try out the product and return it or swap for something else. Also if you buy the sander and vacuum you get a package discount--discounts are normally rare in the Festool world.

Yes you need a vacuum. You can manage with a shopvac--you have to find the right adapter to adapt between Festools 27 mm size and the shopvac size (not too hard to find). The advantage of a Festool dust extractor are the following:
1. HEPA filtration
2. Low Noise level
3. Auto start with the tool

Vijay

[Erik Christensen]

the rotex 150 can definitely do more things -- from finish sand to rough shaping almost as fast as a belt sander. that said - it is a beast - 2 handed for most everything and when in the circular mode 2 hands/hold on tight.

i find myself using the ets 150/3 more often these days as it takes a lot less effort to use and you can keep one had free to hold the workpiece, move cords/hoses etc.

I find that if I need < 80 grit I use the RO150 and above the ETS150/3- so think of how often you use grits in those 2 groups to help you steer to one sander or the other

you do not need to have a festool vac to use one of their sanders but you do have to have a vac of some kind or you miss most of the benefit of getting a festool in the 1st place. you can retrofit most any shop vac with an auto start controller so starting the sander starts the vac and festool sells hoses separately - i think you'd at least want on of their hoses as I have never found another vendors hose that attaches as easily & securely to festool tools as one of their own hoses.

final word of caution - think of this as green crack - "dear it's only a simple sander" and next thing you know you are stealing lunch money from your kids to fund your next green purchase.... :D

[Jeff Monson]

I use a 150 rotex, Its a great sander for all around, I prefer something smaller for finish sanding. If I had to choose ONLY 1 though, it would be the RO150.

If you already own a shopvac, then use it for now until you can afford to upgrade. If you are going out to buy a new vac. then get a festool ct22, the hepa filters and auto power on features make this a hard combo to beat.

[glenn witgen]

I have a 150/3. I build kayaks for a hobby. The dust collection work fantastic. I have always used a shop vac when sanding., but the adjustable vac is a must. I sand a lot of epoxy and if I keep the vac turned down to 1/2 it cut down on the swirl marks. The paper last longer the what I am use to also.

[Christopher Stahl]

Good posts here about the sanders. What you'll probably find is the RO150 and the 150/3 compliment each other. I would say having the two with a dust extractor is the perfect setup. I love them both and very happy that I own them.

If money is an issue, then you may need to decide which is more important to you. The 150/3 is an awesome finishing sander, no doubt. The good all around sander is the RO150. You can finish with the RO150, but it's not as nimble because it is larger.

If you can afford getting the dust extractor, then definitely get it with one of the sanders for the discount. If you can't, save up for it later and use a shop vac. It is worth having, so definitely look into it if you can afford one. Dust extractor size is a personal preference. I went with a CT22E because I like the size. Same as the CT33, but a little smaller. The CT33 is pretty big. :)

Your best bet with the sanders is to find a dealer and use them. That's the way to make an informed choice.

[Frank Martin]

..but I suggest you don't limit yourself to just Festool. Before Festools I owned Bosch sanders. Given all the hype I thought Festool sanders were much better, sold the Bosch sanders and got Festool versions. Honestly, I am just not seeing the difference, other than the price that is. For example, I think Bosch 1250DEVS is just as good as the Rotex, and costs less than half the price. Something the consider...

If you are determined to get Festool, for mostly finishing work 150 ETS is a really good sander, if you need to go aggressive then Rotex is great.

No matter which brand sander you choose, definitely hook it up to a good vacuum with variable suction to remove sanding dust.

[Jim Becker]

I use my 150/3 95% of the time. While I really like my Rotex 150, it's a two-hand machine and that's just not what I want for general sanding...I keep it handy for heavy duty jobs where it's unique properties shine and use the 150/3 for everything else.

[Tom Henderson2]

I'm convinced on the merits of the Festool sanders and need to replace my dying Makita 5" ROS. I'm not a woodworking professional, just a hobbyist and have managed to get through most projects just using my old ROS and hand sanding. I do wide variety of project sizes.

That said, I'd like to pickup a Festool sander, but reviewing the options I get paralyzed while trying to make a choice. My questions to those that know are simple:
1. If you were to own only 1 Festool sander, which one would it be?
2. Is buying the vacuum system crucial for proper dust extraction (very important to me) or can I simply hook a shop vac to it?
3. Assuming the vacuum is crucial, that introduces another part number choice. Which vac is the best to get?

Thank you in advance.

Hello Jeff-

I was in that same situation a few weeks ago, so I can relate to your connundrum.

My advice is to go to your nearest dealer and test-drive the sanders. I think that when you do, the choice will be much easier to make.

I ended up with an ETS-125. I have always been happy with my old DeWalt 5" ROS, and most of my work is smallish stuff so the smaller sander made sense.

It works marvelously. I didn't realize how much I would benefit from the dust collection until I used this sander at home; I can sand all night and not sneeze or sniffle a bit.

I already had the Festool CT-22 vacuum. While you can adapt most vacuums to the Festool sanders, beware that too much vacuum suction is a bad thing as it pulls the sander down onto the work to firmly. I get the best results with my vacuum dialed down to the lowest suction level. So a full-strength shop vac may be too much.

A modern full-featured shop vac is an immense improvement over the typical "screaming mimi" shop vac that I would urge to consider saving for a nice one -- Festool, Fein, etc. Not only are they super vacs, but they are quiet enough that you don't mind standing next to it.

But to your initial question, I think if you test-drive them at a dealer, your choice will be easier to make. Size, weight and feel are important and catalog descriptions don't always convey all of that info.

-TH

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

..but I suggest you don't limit yourself to just Festool. Before Festools I owned Bosch sanders. Given all the hype I thought Festool sanders were much better, sold the Bosch sanders and got Festool versions. Honestly, I am just not seeing the difference, other than the price that is. For example, I think Bosch 1250DEVS is just as good as the Rotex, and costs less than half the price. Something the consider...

If you are determined to get Festool, for mostly finishing work 150 ETS is a really good sander, if you need to go aggressive then Rotex is great.

No matter which brand sander you choose, definitely hook it up to a good vacuum with variable suction to remove sanding dust.

I have looked at the Bosch units (online) and am not 100% opposed to them. I have a jigsaw they make and its fantastic. However, I've read that it gives off more vibration (fatigue causing) and noise than the Festool's, do you agree?

Thank you everyone for your inputs, I know my question wasn't the most "fair" by limiting to one sander, but I find it turns up the contrast on making a selection. Thanks again.

[Van Huskey]

ETS 150/3

Though many won't want to hear it, or accept it the Makita 8040 is a better dual action than the Rotex but either way they both are beasts to handle compared to the ETS 150.

[Scott T Smith]

I use my 150/3 95% of the time. While I really like my Rotex 150, it's a two-hand machine and that's just not what I want for general sanding...I keep it handy for heavy duty jobs where it's unique properties shine and use the 150/3 for everything else.


+ 5 on the recommendation for the Rotex 150 and ETS 150/3. The Festool vac's are great too - the overall system is hard to beat.

[Frank Martin]

I have looked at the Bosch units (online) and am not 100% opposed to them. I have a jigsaw they make and its fantastic. However, I've read that it gives off more vibration (fatigue causing) and noise than the Festool's, do you agree?

Thank you everyone for your inputs, I know my question wasn't the most "fair" by limiting to one sander, but I find it turns up the contrast on making a selection. Thanks again.

As for vibration & noise, I don't think there is a difference between Bosch 1250DEVS and Festool Rotex. Similarly, Bosch 3727DEVS and Festool 150 ETS felt very similar to me. Forgot where the Bosch 3727 was made, but the 1250 was made in Switzerland.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Festool is not good, they are great sanders. I have 5 Festool sanders and I am happy with them. It is just that I don't think they are any or that much better than high quality competing products.

Most hobbyist come from low quality 5" ROS without a vacuum to Festool with vacuum and correctly realize Festool is so much better. It is just that they have no eperience with other high quality 6" sanders coupled with a high quality vacuum (Festool, Fein WAP/Alto) to compare apples to apples.

[Joe Cowan]

Slightly off topic. I do not have any Festool sanders yet, however, I purchased the CT33 vac, with the boom arm and then added the Oneida Dust Deputy that was made for the Festool vacs. What a wonderful setup. The boom arm moves the cords and vac hose around over your head as you sand and the DD makes for easy removal of the sawdust. Worth the $$.

[Steve Milito]

I have a Rotex Ro150 FEQ and an ETS 125 EQ. I bought the Rotex first. It really can remove material in rotex mode, but it can be a bear to control. Certainly a two hand machine, and not really very good inside cabinets. It's also heavy and fatiguing when doing finish sanding, especially on vertical services or inside cabinets.

I then bought the 125 EQ to compliment the rotex. The down side is that I need two sizes of paper but that's not really that big of an issue. Maybe in retrospect the 150/3 would have been a better choice, but I'm not sure. I really do like the 125 for finish sanding. It's light, and very easy to control as a palm sander.

Sanders and routers are like potato chips . . .;)

[Randall Houghton]

Hi Jeff
I asked the same question 11years ago when I started using Festool equipment and the staff recommended the Rotex 150. Eleven years later it's still going strong. I do this for a living and the Rotex is one of my most frequently used tools. I use a CT22 as a shop vac and have found it to be a good combination. If I were you I would look for a package deal for a CT 22and a Rotex 150. Bob Marino would be a good place to start as he is a user as well as a sales rep. Hope this helps.
Regards
Randy

[Greg Portland]

Get the 150/3. I have the 150/3 and the Rotex and greatly prefer the 150/3 for general sanding and finishing. Don't let the "3" fool you, the sander can take off some serious wood with the appropriate grit. I got the 150/3 because it gave me a better finish faster (smaller swirl marks, etc.). I use the Rotex for polishing and heavy duty sanding (grits below 80). I find the 150 class (6") of sanders to be more stable than the 125 class (5"). Be sure to demo it yourself because YMMV...

Important note: You should NOT push down on the Festool sanders when using them... just let the weight of the machine do the work. Also, a vacuum (Fein and Festool make good ones) is required to make any sander work optimally.

[Dan Clark]

I have looked at the Bosch units (online) and am not 100% opposed to them. I have a jigsaw they make and its fantastic. However, I've read that it gives off more vibration (fatigue causing) and noise than the Festool's, do you agree?

Thank you everyone for your inputs, I know my question wasn't the most "fair" by limiting to one sander, but I find it turns up the contrast on making a selection. Thanks again.
Jeff,

Think longer term. If you're thinking of one general purpose sander now and a finishing sander later, then the RO150 followed by the ETS150/3 is a good approach. OTOH, if you're pretty sure that you will only want one general purpose sander AND do more rough sanding, then the RO150 is the one. On the third hand, if you want only one sander and it's a finishing sander, then ETS150/5 may be the better option.

Of course, when you want a very flexible detail sander, then take a look at this new one: http://www.festool.co.uk/Products/Product-Tour/RO90/Pages/RO-90-DX-features.aspx?pid=571681. Here's the another page that includes a video: http://www.festool.de/Produkte/Tour/ro90/Seiten/RotexRO90.aspx. Pretty decent tool porn, I think. :)

Dan.

[Vijay Kumar]

Jeff,

Think longer term. If you're thinking of one general purpose sander now and a finishing sander later, then the RO150 followed by the ETS150/3 is a good approach. OTOH, if you're pretty sure that you will only want one general purpose sander AND do more rough sanding, then the RO150 is the one. On the third hand, if you want only one sander and it's a finishing sander, then ETS150/5 may be the better option.

Of course, when you want a very flexible detail sander, then take a look at this new one: http://www.festool.co.uk/Products/Product-Tour/RO90/Pages/RO-90-DX-features.aspx?pid=571681. Here's the another page that includes a video: http://www.festool.de/Produkte/Tour/ro90/Seiten/RotexRO90.aspx. Pretty decent tool porn, I think. :)

Dan.


I agree with the above. Just one thing though the Ro90 is not likely to be available in the US for another 6 months at least considering it is just being introduced in Europe. There always seems to be a 6 month to a year lag for introduction here.

Vijay

[Dan Clark]

Vijay,

You're probably right, but I hope you're wrong. I need a detail sander. I hope I can wait.

Dan.

[Bob Marino]

Vijay,

You're probably right, but I hope you're wrong. I need a detail sander. I hope I can wait.

Dan.

Hey Dan,

I think Vijay is right, I'd be surprised (but delighted) to see it his year. As to your earlier post regarding choosing between the Rotex 150 and ETS 150/5, I agree with you 100%.

Bob

[Dan Clark]

Bob,

It gets worse. The batteries on my C12 are getting old. I need to replace the batteries or the drill fairly soon. My target is the new C15. But I have to act within the next few months. I depend on it too much to be without it even for a week.

Regards,

Dan.

[Jim Tobias]

If only one.... the 150-3. But, it is all about how you need to use it. They make 3 different models (RO150, 150-3, ETS125) for a reason, they all have their areas of expertise.

Jim

[Brian Kincaid]

My opinion is the 150-5 since it is a little more aggressive. I have one and I do not have a problem with swirl marks (red oak mostly). I usually start and finish with 150 grit. If you want more aggressive get a belt sander (Bosch, probably other good ones available). I will admit I prefer the finish of a hand plane but there are many situations where you need a good sander (panels, frustrating grain).

I really like my CT-33 but I got a separator for it so the extra capacity I paid for is now not required. The CT-22 is the same vac with a smaller dust bag so it might be the way to go. I doubt you will find anyone with anything bad to say about the F-vacs other than the price of the unit and accessories.

-Brian

[Dan Clark]

If only one.... the 150-3. But, it is all about how you need to use it. They make 3 different models (RO150, 150-3, ETS125) for a reason, they all have their areas of expertise.

Jim
Jim,

You're right. Each Festool sander has a purpose, however...

Festool makes 11 electrical sanders and 3 air sanders that they import into the US. They have more in Europe. The RO90 is a new sander that will replace the DX93 sometime late this year or early next.

Regards,

Dan.

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Lots of good stuff to think about guys, thank you all very much for your inputs.
Sounds like the general consensus is to go with the Rotex first and then add the 150/3 for finer sanding in the future. I did head to Woodcraft yesterday and check them out in person and got to trial a 150/5, very nice.

Couple more questions for owners if you'll continue to indulge me:

1. I intend to get the vacuum as well, however if you are ever in a situation where you don't have the vacuum with you, does performance of the general sanding deteriorate significantly? I appreciate that the sanding pads will decrease in life, just curious as to the quality of sanding when in non-vacuum mode.

2. Loudness. I've heard the 150/5, very quiet in my opinion (especially compared to my old ROS). How does the Rotex compare in terms of loudness to the 150/3/5? (I was unable to find a dB rating on Festool's site.) I always try to wear hearing protection regardless, but would anyone say that hearing protection is a must with the Rotex? (I did not feel that hearing protection was required for the 150/5 as an example).

Thanks!

[Frank Martin]

I have never run my sanders without a vacuum, but I would think the sanding performance should not be much worse if you can tolerate the dust.

Rotex is certainly louder than 150 and vibrates more as well. As others pointed out, it is really a two handed sander....



Lots of good stuff to think about guys, thank you all very much for your inputs.
Sounds like the general consensus is to go with the Rotex first and then add the 150/3 for finer sanding in the future. I did head to Woodcraft yesterday and check them out in person and got to trial a 150/5, very nice.

Couple more questions for owners if you'll continue to indulge me:

1. I intend to get the vacuum as well, however if you are ever in a situation where you don't have the vacuum with you, does performance of the general sanding deteriorate significantly? I appreciate that the sanding pads will decrease in life, just curious as to the quality of sanding when in non-vacuum mode.

2. Loudness. I've heard the 150/5, very quiet in my opinion (especially compared to my old ROS). How does the Rotex compare in terms of loudness to the 150/3/5? (I was unable to find a dB rating on Festool's site.) I always try to wear hearing protection regardless, but would anyone say that hearing protection is a must with the Rotex? (I did not feel that hearing protection was required for the 150/5 as an example).

Thanks!

[Greg Portland]

1) Performance & paper life both decrease. This is the case with -any- sander, not just the Festool.
2) Rotex is louder and has more vibration.

Seriously, the 150/3 is a more comfortable machine to use over long periods of sanding and capable of a finer result (@ a given grit). It also has better balance for 1 handed use. If I had to do it all over again I would get a 150/3 and a cheap rotary buffer for polishing (instead of the Rotex and then the 150/3). If I needed to strip a floor or boat of paint/finish then the RAS 115 would be ideal. The Rotex can do all of these tasks fairly well, not just as well (quickly) as the dedicated machines.

[Van Huskey]

If you decide on going the Rotex route do yourself a favor and look at the Makita 6040 not only do I think its a better sander but FWW does as well. It is easier to handle (although all of the dual modes are a bear) and does a much better job in agressive mode, the only short coming is the DC is not quite what the Festool is but my impression is that it just takes so much stock it appears worse. The ETS is indeed top of the heap with the Bosch close but not quite as good overall.

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Once again, thank you all for your inputs and suggestions. Wanted to post that I jumped this morning and placed an order with Bob Marion for a CT22 + ETS 150/3. I almost decided to wait it out for the new vacuums, but I decided to just move forward now.

The ETS will serve me for certain on the project I'm currently on and will let me determine if I need the additional capability of the Rotex going forward. In the end going this route has less "risk" than the other way around given that the Rotex is 2X the cost of the ETS.

Thank you everyone.