Can anyone get me up to speed on a pro setup for spraying contact adhesive?

[Tom Rick]

Has been a long time but I remember I used to use some type of green colored spray contact adhesive for laminate work. Out of a 2 gallon pressure can I think....
I now am doing enough counter tops and paper backed wood veneer work that I need to up my game from the spray bombs of 3M 90 I have been using.

Any ideals for the next step up?

I have lots of spray gear: a graco 4900 turbine gun, binks HVLP guns with presure pots as well as straight 50 psi guns.
Can I set up with any of this gear or is it a whole different gun set for the adhesives?

Thanks all

[David DeCristoforo]

A pressure pot is the best way to go. HVLP guns and contact do not play very well together so I would recommend a "conventional" gun. Don't waste your money on top of the line equipment for this. This is one time when "cheaping out" is the way to go. This stuff ruins the equipment and, in this instance, "completely clean" is an oxymoron. Also, have lots of "sacrificial" materials on hand to protect your stuff because the contact cement will get everywhere and it's a real PITA to clean off. Lots of big sheets of cardboard or cheap hardboard. And don't ever think that a gun/pot you used for contact will ever be any good for anything else ever again!

[Tom Rick]

Thanks for that- I have to admit that I've got a lot done out of the 3m bombs but need better gear just now.

Have you tried any of the water based products, or recommend a brand of adhesive to try?

[Jeff Duncan]

Problem with the spray bombs is the spray pattern is generally a bit narrow for doing long tops. I find the stuff is setting up before I'm ready! I avoid doing laminate in house as much as possible as I make more subbing it out than I can doing it myself, so I don't have a lot of advice.

I can tell you the guns I've used in the past and the 2 I own are NOT the same guns you spray finish with. And I wouldn't look into using a paint pressure pot. There are guns made for spraying adhesive, and the adhesive comes in pressurized cylinders. The gun only has one connection (unlike a regular spray gun) you just hook it up and go. If your doing any amount of laminate work just buy the right gun and tank and don't waste time and money with jury rigging something. They'll pay for themselves quickly.

I would look into Sta-Put as one brand. It was highly recommended to me by another cabinet shop that swears by it. I don't believe it's a contact cement but another type of adhesive. It's been so many years since I sprayed the stuff I couldn't tell you what we used to use. I'm sure others will chime in with some advice in that regard.

good luck,
JeffD

[Tom Rick]

Thanks- I will look into getting dedicated gear.

[Phil Phelps]

Tom, here are some alternatives. You can spray from a pressure pot fairly easily. You'll need to find a needle that will work with the contact cement. I recommend your cheapest gun. It will sputter quite a bit and you won't get a nice fan like with paint. There are several spraying contact adhesives on the market. Check with cabinet supply houses and laminate distributors. The Sta-Put that has been mentioned is a littly pricey. It comes in all kinds of pressurized containers from an 11 lb. canister to a 300 monster. There are imitations, also. The trick is you have to have their gun. It's pricey, too. What is great about this product, (self contained adhesives), is they dry really fast and you can coat out a 4x8 in a couple of minutes. Really a low oder, also You do need a learning curve to catch on. The gun spray pattern is adjusable by trigger pressure. You can also roll a contact adhesive by using an enamel roller cover. You can store the roller cover indefinately by keeping it in a gallon paint can. 3-M also has a latex contact, but I don't recommend that for this job. Now, about the material you are going to use. Some of these paper backed veneers are pure junk. You might even see the spray pattern after you lay it up. The best wood veneers have a foil backer. If you did have a pattern from the spray contact, it would be best to use a roller. Oh, they do make an aerosol can of Sta-Put, but it's too small for what you are doing. Let us know how you do.

[Rick Lizek]

I'd go with the Sta-put system. A canister with hose and gun ready to go. The open time is longer and you have to get used to using less than a conventional contact cement. Easy and simple to use and the canister is pressurized so no compressor is needed. Any good laminate dealer or plywood dealer should carry it or a similar product. When you run out they swap you a full can for your empty one
We were using it twenty five years ago and there's other manufacturers out there now.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

At work we've always used Binks 2001 guns and Binks pots. At home, I've run about 20 gallons through a $75 pressure pot I got from Sears and a $20 gun. The gun is the important part, any cheap pot will work.

I've used Sta Put, and it's pretty good. But have been using Wilsonart contact cement for the last few years. Cheaper, and still really good.

[johnny means]

+1 on Wilsonart adhesive. I've made thousands of countertops, and prefer Wilsonart over STAY-PUT. I thin mine with the Wilsonart thinner and get a beautiful spray pattern with no spitting out of a cheap kobalt gravity fed gun.

Another advantage over Stay-Put is that I can carry a little bit in a container for on site edge replacement and other little things where a brush might be a better applicator than a gun.

I also find Stay-Put a little to "foamy" for veneer work, tends to telegraph.

Use the tools you have and save your Georgies for a nice slitter.

[Karl Brogger]

I can't fathom doing a top of any size with a can of super 77:eek:

+2 on Wilsonart glue, the Formica brand stuff was too thick. Also the dedicated solvent seems to work so much better than laquer thinner for clean up. I've used Red & green. Green was too hard to find all of the over spray.

I got my start doing laminate tops. I don't remember much about the equipment other than it was a air driven pump mounted on a shelf that sucked out of a 55gal drum, with probably 50 ft of hose(s). Helpfull, I know.....:o

And David is 100% correct. Our main spray area for edging and small piece of laminate had to be changed out every 6 months or so, the buildup would be inches thick in places. If you let it go to long it was a real pain to deal with when cutting it up.

[Tom Rick]

"The nice thing about being a pessimist is you are either pleasantly surprised, or right"

Boy that fits the bill for me just about now. I don't expect to be surprised however...

Thanks again for all the other comments as well!
One other bit to the installs in my work. I do boat work so my veneering is all mostly in teak coming from my local supplier. Seems to be a good product but I did have one sheet bubble over time on a job- probably my fault. The veneer is fairly heavy though I have not measured it & seems like telegraphing would not be a problem. The counters are all fairly stock sheet goods like residential work except that the counters are smaller and fairly cut up. Probably how I have got along using the bombs up to this point. I am doing stainless at times. I am forgetting how think I order just now but have had no lifting issues with the 3M 90 on that. Typically there are solid stock fiddles around perimeters and never a wrap down the front edges with top materials.

[Richard Dragin]

I've used Sta-Put a lot with great success. Be aware that there are two kinds of spray, webbing and fine. The webbing holds better but will show through thinner veneers which is when you should use the fine.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I did have one sheet bubble over time..."

Thin paper backed veneers laid up with contact cement can bubble on you. It's "the nature of the beast". Mostly it's caused by not enough coverage and too much glue and/or not being pressed down hard enough. You need 100% cover but it needs to be a thin layer. Hard to accomplish. It's not like PL where you can have 60-80% cover and a thick, "pebbled" glue layer. I always use a veneer hammer to stick down wood veneers. A "J" roller might be OK for PL but it's not the best for wood. The best thing is to get veneer backed with phenolic instead of paper. The problem is, you can't always get the species you want with a phenolic backing "off the shelf". If you need enough veneer to make it worthwhile to order it laid up on a phenolic backing, your bubbling problems will be over.

[Bob Lang]

David is absolutely right, use a veneer hammer or the corner of a block of hard wood for sticking down the paper back veneer. A hand held roller won't generate enough pressure to keep it down for the long haul. Also with the paper packed veneer you need to be careful with finishing. A wet coat of lacquer will have enough solvent in it that the solvent can soak through the veneer and the paper and destroy the glue bond.

Bob Lang

[Joe Jensen]

It's been a long time since I used contact adhesive with wood veneer. 25 years ago I used Weldwood solvent based contact adhesive regularly to bond old school thicker solid wood veneer. The pieces were later finished with Watco. Oddly 2 years later the bond failed. I always assumed it was the solvent in the Watco that loosened the veneer which later failed. So I switched to an epoxy and vacuum bag system.

Has anyone else had veneer lift? I can see how foil backed would prevent this propblem, but with todays super thin paper backed veneer I would expect issues.

[Mitchell Andrus]

A pressure pot is the best way to go. HVLP guns and contact do not play very well together so I would recommend a "conventional" gun. Don't waste your money on top of the line equipment for this. This is one time when "cheaping out" is the way to go. This stuff ruins the equipment and, in this instance, "completely clean" is an oxymoron. Also, have lots of "sacrificial" materials on hand to protect your stuff because the contact cement will get everywhere and it's a real PITA to clean off. Lots of big sheets of cardboard or cheap hardboard. And don't ever think that a gun/pot you used for contact will ever be any good for anything else ever again!

+1 for the pot. I had 4 set-ups for spraying green contact and in 15+ years the only place we got a clog was at the gun's tip. Binks 5 gallon pot, Model 2001 gun, heavy tip. We used to install vinyl tops on cars.... thousands of them.
.

[Larry Edgerton]

I'd go with the Sta-put system. A canister with hose and gun ready to go. The open time is longer and you have to get used to using less than a conventional contact cement. Easy and simple to use and the canister is pressurized so no compressor is needed. Any good laminate dealer or plywood dealer should carry it or a similar product. When you run out they swap you a full can for your empty one
We were using it twenty five years ago and there's other manufacturers out there now.


I'll second that. Been using it for about 15 years, have never even had to clean the gun.