Anyone havested & turned Madrona? (stealth gloat)

[Jamie Straw]

I'm gonna need advice from anyone who's found a fairly reliable technique for getting Madrona to dry evenly. Check this out!! [sorry, I'm a little excited]. One of the stables where I ride took down some "dangerous trees" today, and I got to bring home some Mardona. Went over there expecting perhaps 8-9" limbs or some such thing. Lookeeee what I brought home.:p Biggest are 13"-14"D. They are all now Anchosealed and waiting for mommy to get brave.:D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I think one of our members turns madrone almost exclusively.

[Jamie Straw]

So, if anyone out there has experience with green Madrona, I'd love to know what you think is the best way to approach this notoriously rebellious stuff. I'm sure it's best to turn it green. But after that? DNA?? Anchorseal?? Something else?? I'm all ears!

[Jamie Straw]

I think one of our members turns madrone almost exclusively.

Wow, that must be a record, Ken -- superfast. I hope he sees my thread.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

His name is Reed Gray.....uses the handle "Robo Hippy". PM him if he doesn't see the thread.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken is right. Reed does turn a lot of madrone. Give him a PM.

[David E Keller]

I'm not an expert, but I believe many people boil it to 'stabilize' it.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Sure is some good looking wood! Looking forward to hearing what Reed recommends!

[Wally Dickerman]

So, if anyone out there has experience with green Madrona, I'd love to know what you think is the best way to approach this notoriously rebellious stuff. I'm sure it's best to turn it green. But after that? DNA?? Anchorseal?? Something else?? I'm all ears!

Madrone is the most unstable wood in North America. Really the only successful way to tame it is by boiling. Dale Larson, AAW board member, has turned hundreds of madrone burl salad bowls. He rough turns them and then boils them. Try Steve Russell's web site for some good info on boiling wood.

Madrone burl is just about my favorite wood to turn...but only after it has been stabilized by boiling.

I once tried an experiment with wet madrone (madrona in the NW). I turned a wet piece of it into a bowl shape with very thin walls. While I was turning I kept the wood wet with a sponge and a bucket of water. I put it in a paper bag for a few days. When I got a look at it, it had warped so much that it resembled a hospital bedpan. I kept it for awhile until somebody talked me out of it.

Wally

[Jim Sebring]

You might want to contact Melanie Mankamyer. She's the Membership Chairman of our club (Northwest Washington Woodturners) and lives in Bellingham. She's turned some pretty big Madrone on her monster British bowl lathe. One of her bowls I've seen runs around 20 plus inches. Osjandmm@fidalgo.net (Osjandmm@fidalgo.net)

[Jamie Straw]

You might want to contact Melanie Mankamyer. She's the Membership Chairman of our club (Northwest Washington Woodturners) and lives in Bellingham. She's turned some pretty big Madrone on her monster British bowl lathe. One of her bowls I've seen runs around 20 plus inches. Osjandmm@fidalgo.net (Osjandmm@fidalgo.net)

Thanks, Jim, will do that! Kinda wish I was up that far north -- I've heard that's a great group. Still haven't made it to the Bremerton chapter meeting. Hopefully in May.

[Jamie Straw]

I'll look at that info on boiling, thanks. I know it's a badly-behaved wood.:( But I just love the stuff. I have a big Madrona board in the shop -- acquired from a credit I had with a miller on the island here. 8/4 thick, ~12" wide and 10' long. Dry and straight. What a marvel! Have no idea what I'll do with it, but may never see another one.:D

[Jamie Straw]

Try Steve Russell's web site for some good info on boiling wood.
Wally

That's a great article, Wally, thanks for the link. I was an academic of sorts in a past life, appreciate studies such as his. I see a 55 gal drum and a propane burner in my future!

[Edward Bartimmo]

I have done some boiling and you definetly want to do it outside (some wood smells like you are making crap soup). If you want a pot with dual purpose then you may consider a crawfish boiling pot. HomeDepot sells them $50....usually 20" in diameter and equally tall...much more volume than a turkey frying pot. The added advantage is that you can boil some shrimp or crabs after you wash it out.

Steve Russell is a big advocate of boiling wood and has done a number of write-up and research on it over the years (see link)

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/boiling-protocol.html

[Jamie Straw]

Thanks for the tip on the crawfish pot, I'd not have thought of Home Depot. No worries about me boiling wood in the house, ooooo yuck. Besides, that propane burner he uses would be realllllly dangerous inside. I spent some time last night reading the article about Steve Russell's study comparing boiling with simple paper-bag drying -- 450 bowls in the sample. Picture of burner below, have to find out where to get one.

No cooking for me once the pot's been used for a bunch of bowls. Sounds like it can get pretty gunky. "The extractives in the timber will quickly make a mess of your boiling pot and you will not want to use it for anything else." Besides, there are just two of us, not sure what we'd eat that would need a pot that big!

This is a "Cajun style propane burner." Not a common sight in the Great Northwest, but they're probably out there somewhere......
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/images/cajun-cooker.jpg

[Bob Hampton]

jamie
look for a "turkey cooker" in lowes or home depot also called crab cookers ...ive seen the propane burners at lowes also
another source for the burner is a local propane company
Bob

[Jamie Straw]

jamie
look for a "turkey cooker" in lowes or home depot also called crab cookers ...ive seen the propane burners at lowes also
another source for the burner is a local propane company
Bob

Thanks, Bob. I just found one on Craig's List! It's a ferry ride away, plus driving, but the guy said he'd hold it until tomorrow, when I'm going over to Seattle anyways. Color me happy.:D It has the same leg design as the one in Russell's picture. The new ones are shabby, not as sturdy. Now I just have to figure out how to cut down a 55 gal. drum. That's alot of hacksawing!

[Reed Gray]

I could tell you were from Washington, as they call it Madrona up there, and Madrone down here. The Canadians call it Arbutus, the latain name.

With Madrone, you have two chioces, one is to thick turn it and boil it (do contact Dale Larson, probably listed in the AAW books as he is a board member). The other choice is to thin turn it and let it warp. You can not thick turn this wood and then try to seal it and let it warp. My thin turned bowls have finished out like footballs, 14 inches long by 9 wide, and wall height varies by 2 inches or more. It has a higher water content than most other woods, being some thing like 90% water weight as compared to other woods that are more like 65% to 70% so it warps more. You can cut slabs off a log, one slab will warp one way, and the next another. That is Madrone.

If you want to thin turn it, not more than 1/4 inch, the DNA soaking does absolutely nothing for this wood. Paper bagging doesn't do much good either, even with double bagging and keeping it on the floor. Putting it in with shavings isn't much better. The best thing I have found is to round over your rims, then get some of the 6 inch stretch plastic film (the stuff you wrap around boxes to keep them on a pallet, available at office supply and shipping supply places) and stretch a couple of wraps around the rim. About 1 inch over the rim into the inside, and the rest on the outside. This compression does more to keep them from cracking than any other method I have tried. Start it off on the floor, then after a few days, up on a wire shelf. Dry in about 10 days. I do soak all my bowls in LDD (half cheap brown or yellow hand dishwashing soap and half water for 24 hours, rinse lightly, dry for a few hours, then wrap the rim). It makes all woods a lot easier to sand.

As for the logs, before the end of this month, when the 'dry' season here gets going, seal the ends of the logs, place a tarp on the ground, spread out some shavings, and get them wet (not damp, WET), put the logs on top of the shavings, then completely cover them with more shavings, and again, get them wet, then cover them with another tarp, and have the tarp go all the way to the ground, all the way around. If you only get the shavings damp, the logs will crack from the outside in. I will not harvest logs any later than about now.

Wonderful smooth even grain, lovely pink shavings, and pelple love them around here. One of my best selling woods, better than Myrtle.

robo hippy

[Jamie Straw]

Reed, thank you so much for all this information, I'm feeling much better equipped to take the best care of these logs and get them to bowl form. The logs were sealed last night with Anchorseal, so at least that is done. I have some questions about the next step(s).

Using the wet-shavings approach, should the logs be in a single layer? Sounds like it if I want them to truly be covered by shavings.
A friend of mine recommended cutting the logs and getting the pith out right away. I'm reluctant to cut into them until I'm ready to rough turn. Seems like if I go that route, I'd have to take them down to fairly small chunks, no? perhaps cause more of a problem than I'd solve. Please advise....
I've never seen brown dish-washing soap. Not sure I've seen yellow....and I'm old.:eek: Got a name or two for me?
I've got enough wood here, I can try a couple of different methods. am picking up a propane burner tomorrow, and possibly the 55-gal drum, so definitely will be able to boil, but that's a long process for the Madrona according to Russell -- several hours, much more than other woods.

Thanks again!

[Reed Gray]

Jamie,
Some of the old timers would put the logs in the ponds to keep them. I don't like the color changes that way. I cut them into bowl lengths, plus a little, then stand them on end. Just easier to handle that way. If the logs are bigger pieces, then I will rip them, but it isn't always necessary.

As to the soap, I go to a grocery wholesale outlet and Get Joy soap. The Costco Kirkland brand works as well. The blue and green soaps can color your wood.

If you get a 55 gallon drum, if it isn't galvanized or stainless, it will color the wood just like a nail does. For the boiling, put the rough turned blanks in the water, bring to a boil, then let it come back to air temp in the water. Then seal and store.

If you are ever down Eugene way, stop on by. I will be up in Seattle in November for a show. Maybe see you then. Can't make it to Olympia for their woodturning thing, I will be in Northwest Ontario Canada, chasing Walleye and Northern.

robo hippy

[Wally Dickerman]

Thanks, Jim, will do that! Kinda wish I was up that far north -- I've heard that's a great group. Still haven't made it to the Bremerton chapter meeting. Hopefully in May.

Before moving to Arizona I lived in Anacortes, Wa. and was a member of the Northwest Wa. club. It was just getting started then. If you live on the Kitsap peninsula you really should get together with the club over there. A great bunch of turners. Turning clubs add a lot to the turning experience. I've belonged to 5 of them over the years, starting with the Seattle group. Actually Redmond.

Wally

[Jamie Straw]

Jamie,
If you get a 55 gallon drum, if it isn't galvanized or stainless, it will color the wood just like a nail does.


Reed, the drum I found on Craig's List is "food grade" and looks brand new in the picture. Would "food grade" be galvanized, do you think? They only want $20 for it, so I doubt that it's stainless.