question about monster hollowing system

[patrick michael stein]

hi all


wondering how deep you can hollow with this set up.I am looking to hollow between 20 and 25 inches.Any info would be helpfull.



thanks
patrick

[Steve Schlumpf]

Patrick - I have both of the Monster systems (love them!) but, in my opinion, were not designed to go that deep. I would check with Joe Meirhaeghe and see what he uses for a system - probably home-made - but he is the only one I know of that regularly hollows to that depth.

There are a number of threads here that showcase his work - but check this one out: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=133837&highlight=vase

[patrick michael stein]

thanks steve,


swmbo would like me to turn her one deep vessell.would the monster do 12or 13 inch vessell?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Patrick - I've turned 11" to 12" deep but it does start to chatter pretty good. Found the key was to use the smallest cutter and take small bites. Takes longer but it gets the job done.

[patrick michael stein]

thanks again

[George Guadiane]

thanks steve,


swmbo would like me to turn her one deep vessell.would the monster do 12or 13 inch vessell?


Patrick - I've turned 11" to 12" deep but it does start to chatter pretty good. Found the key was to use the smallest cutter and take small bites. Takes longer but it gets the job done.
A while back, I did some deeper vessels, about 15/16 inches using the Monster articulated setup... I did the following:
I started with the articulated arm then added the Rolly Munro hollower.
THEN, I hollowed through a hole of at least 3 inches in diameter. In that way, I could stick my 2 inch wide box end tool rest into the opening and use that to support the Munro hollower at a deeper point inside the piece, reducing the overhang and the chatter.

I have since gotten an 8 inch with a curve round bar stock rest from Johannes Michelsen to which I will add a pin/post at the end to use even deeper inside the big pieces.
One could do just fine with the tools that come with the Monster, but I REALLY like the Rolly tools and had already had great success with them hollowing freehand, so, FOR ME, it was logical to try and incorporate those tools into the new setup.

[Bob Haverstock]

Patrick,

I can't speak about a Monster System, but to go 25'' deep, the bar needs to be massive from one to the other. No flex is good flex.

A couple of months ago, I wanted to hollow some urns. I inquired on this forum. I was wanting to have the capability to to go 16" deep. Steve S. suggested that I use at least a 1.25 diameter boring bar. I think that if I were going to work 20 plus inches deep I would use at least a 1.5 inch diamete bar.

I built by own captured hollowing system with a 1' bar system. The good news it that it works well to about 14" of depth, the bad news is that is about max. I should have followed Steve's advise. My next one will be built out of 1.5 stock.

If you pursue a captured system, you will need a lot of bed length to work a 25" depth, at least 54'' of bed and then you may have repostion the capture frame. You will need a good steady rest. I would also think that a modified tool rest would be in order.

Not many turners work that deep. Those of us who do, find it satisfying

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

Bob Haverstock


hi all


wondering how deep you can hollow with this set up.I am looking to hollow between 20 and 25 inches.Any info would be helpfull.



thanks
patrick

[Richard Madison]

A captured rig with 1.5" bar stock would be rather heavy. Does anyone use a roller tool rest and rollers in the capture frame?

[patrick michael stein]

thanks george I have the munro hollower 2 will try what you had said.



bob would be interested in seeing some of your work.would also like talk about making system for deeper vessells.


thanks


patrick

[Bob Haverstock]

A captured rig with 1.5" bar stock would be rather heavy. Does anyone use a roller tool rest and rollers in the capture frame?


Richard,

I can't think of any good reason why a roller rest with good bearings wouldn't work, I think a roller tool rest would help. Using rollers on the rear rest could also be considered.

1.5" diameter mild steel weights roughly 8 ounces per linear inch. A 54" long captured bar with a 26" long outrigger would weight about 41 pounds.
Wild chatter would not be a nice experience, the tool rest might collapse.

I haven't built a 1.5" bar yet, but I feel the need. Perhaps if you used a hardenable steel for the bar, the large diameter might not be needed. I think the increased mass of a larger bar might reduce the chances of chatter.

Bob Haverstock

[Bob Haverstock]

Partrick,

I've sent you an email on the forum site.

Bob Haverstock


thanks george I have the munro hollower 2 will try what you had said.



bob would be interested in seeing some of your work.would also like talk about making system for deeper vessells.


thanks


patrick

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

Patrick - I have both of the Monster systems (love them!) but, in my opinion, were not designed to go that deep. I would check with Joe Meirhaeghe and see what he uses for a system - probably home-made - but he is the only one I know of that regularly hollows to that depth.

There are a number of threads here that showcase his work - but check this one out: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=133837&highlight=vase

Patrick
I regularly do DEEP Hollow Vessels with a friend & on my own as well. We have hollowed pieces that started out up to close to 500 lbs and up to 32" deep.
We use boring bars of various sizes made by
Advanced Lathe Tools.
We use a 1" dia. bar for up to about 14" or so deep.
Then we go to a 1 1/8" dia. bar for vessels up to about 20" to 22" deep.
Then for anything over that up 32" deep we use a
1 1/4" Dia. bar.
Hope this helps.
Joe

[Don Geiger]

I have one of Frank Sudol's original captured rest hollowing systems. My research in the matter indicates Frank was the first person to come out with a captured rest sytstem. He had the first one built because he had fallen on ice and had broken both wrists and needed a way tocontinue turning.

Frank used to do very deep (36" or deeper) vessels and turn them to 1/16" wall thickness. As I recall, Frank used bars up to 2" in diameter for his deeper vessels. Frank was a real pioneer of deep hollowing and an all around great person. What a guy he was!

Anyway the Sudol system I have has a 1-1/4" diameter bar that is 6 feet long. Just out of curiosity I weighed it at 40 lbs! The system has a stand that is independant of the lathe. This way it does not matter what length your bed is and you can move the capture system anywhere you need it to get your tool to reach inside the opening of your vessel. I've got some Polaroid photos of Frank using the system I bought.

I bought some 2" stainless steel propeller shafts from a scrap yard with a couple of years ago the intention of making a really deep hollowing system, but I haven't had time to make any. They are laying on the ground outside my shop- rusting is not a problem, but I am careful not to hit them with the lawn mower.

I also have two Kobra system ( a red one and a Green one) and a small home-made captured rest system.


Don Geiger

[patrick michael stein]

hi don,



don wondering if you have pics of his system trying to make some type.

[Don Geiger]

The hollowing tool is 1.5" diameter (I was wrong earlier) X 6' long solid steel. It is center drilled on the end to accept 3/4" diameter bit holders. It was supplied with three bit holders: staight, 22.5 and 45 degrees. Each bit holder has a facet milled on it to orient it properly in the bar. The bar weighs 40 lbs.

The free standing support has a roller to ease movement of the tool and an adjustable over bar. The whole upper structure can be adjusted vertically. I bought but never installed an inexpensive bottle jack to ease the adjustment. It is kind of hard to adjust it with the 40 lb. bar on it while looking at a bubble level.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Don Geiger

[Bob Hovde]

[QUOTE=Steve Schlumpf;1412777]Patrick - I have both of the Monster systems (love them!) but, in my opinion, were not designed to go that deep.

Patrick, I agree with Steve about the Monster system. I have the articulated system and find it starts chattering badly beyond about a foot.

I've turned several deep vessels using the technique shown on Jack de Vos' website. (Perth, Australia - jackdevos.com - "the making of..." link.) You hollow from both ends, saving the "plug" from the bottom to make it solid again when you're finished. It requires the use of a steady-rest, but most deep vessels do, anyway.

[Don Geiger]

Here are some photos I scanned of the late-great Frank Sudol using the Sudol hollowing system a a demo in Georgia.

[Bob Haverstock]

I have a Nova 1624. The captured rig that I made works well within the capacity limits of the Nova. To do deeper work, I need to install the bed extention and make a beefer bar.

The photo is of an oak urn that I turned this month, the finish is Mylands friction finish. I burnished the oak with oak curlies. The urn was just about max depth on Nova at about 14 inches.

Bob Haverstock

[Jeff Nicol]

There is a turner in Hawaii Named Elmer Adams that has lots of stuff on Youtube. He uses some huge tools and it is the length that is very important. Here is a link to one of his YouTube videos



http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/hawaii-bowl-turner-elmer-adams-part-3/ec0c9f02ae54283e8828ec0c9f02ae54283e8828-68652892667

It is very cool!

Jeff