Formula for kitchen cabinet materials?

[Van Huskey]

Do any of the cabinet makers have a quick and dirty formula for materials for kitchen (in this case shop) cabinets. I mainly want to know the amount of ply for carcasses and BF of solid. I know there are tons of variables but I don't need an even near exact number, just enough to start making a rough budget per foot. 30" uppers, raised panel doors and about 30 total feet. I could figure it out but I would have to do it like I would furniture and would take me a while.

TIA

[Karl Brogger]

Do any of the cabinet makers have a quick and dirty formula for materials for kitchen (in this case shop) cabinets. I mainly want to know the amount of ply for carcasses and BF of solid. I know there are tons of variables but I don't need an even near exact number, just enough to start making a rough budget per foot. 30" uppers, raised panel doors and about 30 total feet. I could figure it out but I would have to do it like I would furniture and would take me a while.

TIA


30" upper, 36" base = 5-1/2'X30'=165bd/ft. Chances are you'll need better than 200bd/ft, and probably more like 250bd/ft depending on how wastefull/picky you want to be. Some shops figure 50% for waste....

I order plywood by the unit and don't keep track of what goes where. Pile starts getting low, I order more. There's no magic formula. There's alot of variables, number of partitions, how many run to the floor, etc.

Draw it up, figure your parts, calculate the area, add at least 15% for waste.

[Chip Lindley]

Van, I could let you in on my secret formula, but then I would have to Dispose Of You! BruuHaaHaaHaa!

Seriously, quick, accurate calculation of cabinet jobs can save tons of time and material! (not to mention sanity) Back in '99 I spent most of a year working on a MicroSoft Excel program to calculate every part for cabinet carcasses and RP doors. After cabinet standards are entered, only the door opening need be entered to calculate all parts of a raised panel door to fit! It even prints off cut lists. I did all that work (starting from scratch, knowing nothing about Excel, but learning lots!) Now there are quite inexpensive cabinet programs available that do the same plus much more. They make measured drawings and 3-D renderings too!

Take a look at Cabinet Planner. At only $69.95, it's pretty amazing. Something like that is just what you need! (I am not affiliated with Cabinet Planner in any way)

[Steve Griffin]

i'd suggest doing a spreadsheet with actual materials needed for this job.

It might take a half hour of your life, but then you would know for sure. Future jobs could use the same materials/linear foot convention, or you could easily figure actuals again.

It's not that hard to figure sheet goods. For example, look at your plan mentally add up linear feet of carcass sides/tops/decks rounding up to nearest foot. Divide by 16'/sheet good if a base or 32'/sheet good for uppers. Backs are even easier.

For wood, I use the following basic formula--if you have plywood door panels it's linear feet x3=Board feet. Solid wood panels is linear feet x4=board feet.

-Steve

[Van Huskey]

Thanks for the responses! Gives me what I need. May check out the software as well.

[Joe Chritz]

I do it manually for each job. It only takes about an hour to get a really accurate cut list for a good size kitchen.

Once you get moving lots of parts are repeats. For example all the sides are likely to be the same (23.25 x 34.5 or 23.25 x 30.5 depending on how you do toe kicks).

A sketch (which I draw with kitchen draw freebee) and I just write them out.
Don't forget shelves, and stretchers if you don't use 1/2" backs.

Cutlist plus was about $30 I think and very useful for sheet goods.

Joe

[Karl Brogger]

I do it manually for each job. It only takes about an hour to get a really accurate cut list for a good size kitchen.

I used to work for a large custom cabinet shop. We had about 50 guys, while I absolutely hated the three years I was there, I did learn alot. The only thing that there was cut lists for was doors and drawers. The guys who did cut out for the box work did all of it on the fly, and after doing it this way on my own, it really is the simplest way to do things.

Many of your parts are going to be the same size. For exaple the way I do bases the unfinished ends are 23"x34-1/2", and partitions are 23"x30". I just run through the print and bulk cut those parts, and just take a wag at how many rips I'll need to do decks. In the case of the big shop I worked at, they'd take a unit of material and cut it up into these parts, and they'd get racked. For decks I figure those on the run too, once you get used to the math alot of times you don't even need a calculator, I find myself knowing the size before I'm done putting it into the calculator. Say I've got a 48" wide base, one end finished, the other not, with a 1/2" pocket behind the frame. With 3/8" dado's the deck will be 1-1/4" less than the face frame (7/8" on the unfinished side, 3/8" on the finished end)

I used to hate not having cut lists, but to be honest I think you're better off not having them. You know things better, or at least their more at the front of your mind. I figure face frame parts the same way, and just cut the parts on the fly. With a set of proper prints its pretty easy.

But I never try to order the absolute minimum of material either.....

[Steve Griffin]

I couldn't agree less. An organized cutlist is absolutely invaluable to me, unless I'm making single cutting board or a something with less than 3 parts.

-Steve

[Karl Brogger]

What is it that makes having a cutlist invaluable to you?

[Chip Lindley]

IMO, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it! As my Senior Moments increase, it is invaluable for me to go back to THE LIST and check (and double-check) off parts as they are cut. I strive for the least waste. I can afford to; I am not on an intense production schedule! When I cut rail pieces, I start with longest and work toward shortest. Often times, short pieces are cut between knots or defects. THE LIST allows me to check off parts as they are cut, and see what remains.

Same with a panel optimizer program. Unless exhorbent waste is not an issue in your shop, getting the max amount of pieces from a 4x8 sheet is important. Not so much with MDF, but certainly so, when it is cherry ply.

[Steve Griffin]

What is it that makes having a cutlist invaluable to you?


Well, let's say I have a list of 70 parts for face frames and door parts. I typically use a spreadsheet to list these parts and with the click of a button, they are sorted by width and length with totals..

My linear length totals help me decide how many linear feet to rip at each width.

The list, which is sorted from big to small, also provides a perfect starting point for cutting. Cut the big pieces first, use the smaller ones for the smaller pieces etc. It also gives me something to check off as pieces are cut, so I know what has been cut.

Maybe I don't understand your question? How could it be possible that a well organized cutlist would not be helpful?

-Steve

[Karl Brogger]

I have done it both ways. The first shop I started working for everything was off of a cutlists.

edit- I should add this. I take a wag at how many rips I'll need for each individual width. When I start cutting frames I've got a stack that I pull from as I'm cross cutting the individual parts.

As far as waste goes, there maybe more in solid, but its probably pretty minor. The time it takes to label each part, then sort through them later prior or during assembly is in my eyes pretty minor to the extra expense of a bit of wood. Especially when paying an employee to do it. I start cutting out the face frame for box #1, I don't move on untill those parts are machined then stacked up and ready for assembly. Sometimes parts get missed, but not very often. A guy who works for me was labeling each individual face frame part one day, which is a complete waste of time. You should be able to determine where the parts go from a glance at the print and for parts that are close in size pull a tape quick to figure out where they go.


When it comes to sheet stock, I've got almost no waste. I'd be surprised if I was over 5%. Scraps typically get burned up for shelves or stretchers/nailers. For other sheet stock for finished ends and the like, I can usually figure that pretty closely just taking a wag at it. Anything left over gets shelved, and eventually used on the next job of that specie.

The biggest part of doing anything woodworking is fine tuning processes. I HATED the big shop I worked for, but with ~50 guys that place banged out $25.7m the last year I was there. That averages out to just over $500k for each employee! A typical day saw five jobs go out the door, our record when I worked there was nine jobs shipped. And to be perfectly honest had better quality control than I do with a small shop, mostly because so many hands handled each facet of the parts. The place was very impressive in both tooling and execution. Heck, we had three seperate Timesavers, (2-43' dual head, 1-43" random orbit), just so there wasn't time wasted changing belts!

I'm not saying anybody is wrong, or even that I'm right. What works for you, works for you. I do know that I am better overall at my job because of doing things with out cutlists for anything other than doors/drawers. Those numbers are always fresh in my head, and the basic math used to figure parts keeps me sharper. I do ask that you try it, but like I said before, you need good prints. As in it feeds you all of the dimensions you need, so you don't have to take time to figure them yourself in the shop.

[scott vroom]

Steve, I think what Karl is saying is each to his own. Some prefer a cutlist, others prefer another methodology. What
works for you may not work for someone else.