Is a LA block a wise choice for one's first plane?

[James Taglienti]

I see a lot of folks recommending a low angle block of some type for a person's first plane. Isn't this primarily an end grain tool?
I never reach for a low angle block plane for long grain. And my end grain trimming isn't 10% of my block plane use. In my experience a LA block just isn't the right tool for long grain.
For someone's first block plane, I'd assume they will be removing saw marks and trimming other edges. Perhaps doing some end grain planing. But a standard angle plane can trim end grain too.
One might argue that someone could simply steepen the bevel on the cutter so the plane will handle long grain better. But realistically is this something someone will be able to do easily with their first plane? Not to mention the time it takes and the good steel wasted. One could also argue that you could just buy two blades. This is true. But again, is a blade switch every time the task changes going to be something a beginner can do easily and in a decent amount of time?
I have a low angle block plane with a total angle of 40*. This plane handles both long grain and end grain, but is not stellar at either.

Just food for thought. My first block plane was a 9 1/2 type and it took about 5 attempts to sharpen it correctly. But when I did, I was impressed at how it could cut long and end grain.

[Rick Erickson]

My take is that there really is NO good 'first plane' recommendation. I really think they need to come in sets of 3 or so. Recommending one plane doesn't really satisfy the requirement for wanting / needing planes.

[Josh Rudolph]

James,

I understand where you are coming from, but I am that guy. However I bought a second blade. My thought is I will always check to see if the blade is setup correctly before each use, which I assume to be a standard practice. The more time I spend aligning things, the quicker I get.
Hopefully I will get to the point I can do it as fast as others.
But by buying a low angle and multiple blades I can have a single plane that can do multiple functions without having to invest in a couple planes. This is a big selling point for the guy that is on the fence about hand planes. They don't want to be too vested in something that may not be for them.
So far I am very pleased with my LV LA block plane.

I know I had always thought of a plane to be used for that one little tweak here or there. So that lead me to believe their most practical use would be for joinery; cleaning miters, squaring an end, tweaking a tenon, etc... So I can understand why a guy starts with a block plane, I certainly did.

I am now starting my collection of users and trying hard not to become a collector. I had always bought a plane here and there at auctions over the years, not really knowing what I was buying, just figuring that one day I would figure it all out. Now that I am starting to understand the versatility of a hand plane system, I am really going to focus on getting some of my finds setup for use. My list of current or to be potential users...LV LA Block, LV Medium Shoulder, (3) Stanley #4's, Stanley #5, Bedrock 605, Stanley #6, Miller Falls equivalent to a #6, and a Stanley #7 in the mail. I have a bunch of older woodies and a couple others, but they will be relegated to display for now. I know it is a slippery slope and I am probably down it further than I thought, but it happened so fast I didn't know what was going on!

Josh

[Greg Wease]

Here's what Tom Lie-Nielsen recommends for first planes:

"The single most useful tool is a low angle block plane. We have several, and any of them would be used every day in the shop. Next, I would consider our Low Angle Jack Plane. It is a very versatile tool, and in many people's hands it can double as a smoothing plane. It is also a unique tool with no other equivalent. With those two tools you can do a lot of work. Third, I might like a dedicated Smoothing Plane."

I find the low angle block plane to be a very useful tool for all types of trimming chores--not just for end grain.

[Jim Koepke]

James,

Until this afternoon I would agree with you on the LA block planes.

Then, the UPS truck came down my driveway with a #60-1/2 from Lie-Nielsen.

I sold my standard angle block planes since they didn't seem like they were really any different than a small bench plane only harder to adjust and having a propensity for the blade to dive into the wood. My small #60 size Stanley LA blocks are OK taking a cut in long grain, but there really isn't and advantage over a bench plane. The longer the cut, the more the advantage goes to using a bench plane.

Out of the box the LN was beating them. After a few minutes of putting the blade to my 8000 stone it was even better. The plane really didn't need any tuning after that, but I am a little picky, so another two or three minutes on attention to details and I was holding a dream.

I think my Stanley LA blocks will get a little clean up, tuning and sharpening and then be put up for sell. They have been great planes, but the LN is just better.

I have used my LA blocks for long grain in the past and will do so in the future, but I am more likely to reach for a Bailey style bench plane to do the long grain work.

jim

[John Coloccia]

I use a LA block plane on long grain with no problem at all. In fact, I gave away my old Stanley block plane because I simply didn't use it anymore.

[Rob Lee]

Hi James -

Remember too - a LA Block plane is bevel-up, so you can change the effective cut angle to what you want.. it will do anything a standard angle plane will do...

Another reason to favor a smaller format plane is that they require less force to wield, are are subsequently easier to control - and give you better tactile feedback in use... both important for someone starting out with planes.

Another often overlooked advantage a LA plane has for beginners is the ease of setting the blade... a low-slope plane bed has about a 5:1 feed/projection ratio.... feed the blade forward 5 units, and your change blade projection by 1 unit.

Any of them are good choices... my favorite is an apron plane (ours is an Apron plane, LN's is a 102) ... no adjustable throat, and a compact size.

Blade choice - I am also in the minority here - I favor O1 for my apron plane, as it suits how I work... I may have to sharpen more frequently, but it suits my process better...

Cheers -

Rob

[Prashun Patel]

I'm in the presence of greatness here, so I submit this humbly:

My LA block can do everything the standard angles can do and more.
I love my Veritas Apron plane. I've been using it out of the box for about a month now and just this AM decided to resharpen. It was so easy to remove the blade and reset it. That's something I hated about most other planes (bench & block) that I've used.

Wow, Jim, I'm surprised you bought a brand new plane!

[Mark Roderick]

My first plane was a LN low-angle adjustable-mouth block plane and it was (and is) a superb first plane. It showed me what hand planes are capable of, and I still use it all the time, probably more than any other plane.

I recently used that plane to cut the bevels on a small panel made of curly maple, freehand, and it was fantastic with with the grain and across the grain.

[David Keller NC]

FWIW, I never recommend a block plane to the beginners I've helped. The simple reason is that 99% of these folks are looking for a way to get out of the sanding routine, and for that I recommend that they buy a #4 smoothing plane. It's considerably easier for me to explain how, and for them to accomplish, the blade camber that's necessary to prevent dig-in at the corners when planing a surface wider than the plane.

Since most of these folks are prepping their joinery on powered machinery, I just don't feel they've much need for a block plane, at least as a first one. Ditto for what I'd consider plane number 2 and 3 - a foreplane and a jointer (not necessarily in that order).

[James Taglienti]

Wow- I can't get such results with my low angle block. Maybe I need a new one ;)

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, Jim, I'm surprised you bought a brand new plane!

Well, the tax refund came back and the wife let me splurge.


Wow- I can't get such results with my low angle block. Maybe I need a new one ;)

I would not have believed it without it being in my own hand. I am sure the LV offerings are also fine planes, but I am blown away by my new little toy from LN.

jim

[David Gendron]

I have to agree with Rob L., I have the appron plane and the LA block and the appron is indeed my favorit of the two! And never had any problem what so ever with long grain planning!

[Derek Cohen]

I consider a block plane the ideal first plane. As Rob noted, it provides maximum feedback and control as the centre of effort is low. This is important with newbies.

The second plane I would recommend is a #3 smoother. Again, this is a small plane, which will ride the hills and valleys of a surface better than a long plane. Consequently, shavings are easier to achieve and the results are encouraging. I know that Rob loves the Veritas LA block plane-with-the-tote, and this makes a superb #3 smoother (in BU guise).

I bought the bronze LN #103 (standard angle) about 10 years ago. It became an instant favourite, and remains so to this day. The Veritas Apron is the same size and I am sure would provide a similar experience.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Nelson1]

My take is that there really is NO good 'first plane' recommendation. I really think they need to come in sets of 3 or so. Recommending one plane doesn't really satisfy the requirement for wanting / needing planes.


LOL just went through all this 3 is ok 7 is better LOL

[matt braun]

What can a standard block plane do that a skew block plane can not do? (Specifically the new Veritas skew block.) Can a skew replace the regular completely?

Should I have put this question in a separate thread?

[Derek Cohen]

What can a standard block plane do that a skew block plane can not do? (Specifically the new Veritas skew block.) Can a skew replace the regular completely?

Should I have put this question in a separate thread?

Hi Matt

I am a supporter of standard angle block planes for general work, especially for chamfering edges and trimming. They can do a very respectful job of end grain as well (I bought my LN #103 thinking it was a #102 - which shows that one should always have their reading glasses at hand. It was years before I twigged that it was a standard angle plane, and it was doing excellent work on end grain!). For end grain a very sharp blade makes all the difference.

However low angle block planes are still better on end grain and most definitely better across the grain (which you really want a cutting angle as low as possible). Skew block planes excell when planing across the grain, as it lowers the cutting angle further with its slicing action.

So the answer to your question is that you can use a standard angle for across grain and on end grain, but a skew will do this much, much better. A Standard angle should plane with the grain better than a LA or skew block plane. A low angle block plane fits inbetween.

Having said all this, I was using a Veritas skew block plane across the grain while cleaning up a tabletop with breadboard ends. The skew was excellent in fine tuning the tenon cheeks and then it was used across the grain at the intersection of the end cap and the table surface after assembly. I was very happy to use it instead of a regular block plane when chamfering the edges and cleaning up some face grain. I took very fine cuts with the mouth closes up to prevent tear out on the Jarrah I was working.

Regards from Perth

Derek