bowl turning, how much should i be sanding?

[Patrick Doody]

so i'm fairly new to all of this only made a few bowls so far, and i feel like i'm making decent cuts, not a lot of vibration, getting good curls and whatnot. on my latest bowl (silver maple) I got a ton of tearout on the endgrain portions of the bowl, it wasn't as severe inside the bowl as it was on the outside. I spent a long time sanding the bowl and still didn't get rid of all the tearout. I got to a point of "good enough because i'm tired of sanding" and I was thinking that I have to be doing something wrong, I think my tools are pretty sharp, i've been using a varigrind II for the bowl gouge. I've been trying to take light cuts when i'm nearing final thickness. I guess i'm wondering is this normal? should i expect a lot of sanding before finishing the piece? if so i'll look into a power sanding setup. Thanks in advance!

[David Walser]

... on my latest bowl (silver maple) I got a ton of tearout on the endgrain portions of the bowl, it wasn't as severe inside the bowl as it was on the outside.... I guess i'm wondering is this normal? should i expect a lot of sanding before finishing the piece?


Patrick,

To answer your question, no it's not normal. That is, with good wood, good technique, and sharp tools, you shouldn't have tear out. Sometimes you'll need to change your technique -- shear scraping instead of cutting, for example. Sometimes you'll need to lubricate the wood fibers by wetting them with the finish you plan on using (such as sanding sealer, lacquer, or Danish oil) or, sometimes, you'll reinforce the fibers with CA glue. Usually, one or more of these tricks will allow you to get a tear out free surface off your tool.

Sometimes, despite all you try, you'll still get a small amount of tear out. That really should be the exception, not the rule. If it is happening most of the time (and you're using good wood), you should get with a more experienced turner and see what you're doing that's not quite right.

Oh, and a power sanding setup is a good investment. :) Even without any tear out, sanding a bowl by hand can take a lot of time.

Good luck!

[David E Keller]

David already said everything I was going to say.

If you want to keep turning bowls, the power sanding setup is a purchase you'll never regret... I get better finishes in less time than doing it by hand.

[John Hart]

The Davids both hit all my points as well. I'll place another vote for power sanding. I don't like sanding....it gives me the sniffles. :(

I like lacquer though!!! (hic :o)

[Wally Dickerman]

Something that most newbies and even some experienced turners don't pay enough attention to is CUT WITH THE GRAIN. With most woods, the surface left when cutting against the grain vs cutting with the grain makes a huge difference. Then learn to use the same gouge to lightly shear scrape after the final cut...also with the grain.

With face grain bowl turning, which you apparently were doing, cut from the small diameter to the large. From the foot to the rim. When turning an endgrain piece, do the opposite.

Sanding is the least fun part of turning...If you leave a smooth surface on the wood with the tool you'll eliminate much of the sanding.

A good example is when planing a board. Any woodworker knows that when you plane against the grain, you get a torn surface. The same is true when turning.

Wally

[Stephen Massman]

Along with everything else that has been said, I would look into a local turning group or someone to mentor with.

[Keith Burns]

One other overlooked thing is speed. The faster you turn the better the cut you will get. Don't exceed your comfort zone though.

[Jack Savona]

Patrick, if I have any endgrain tearout on the outside of the bowl, I take a sharp skew (or flat edge scraper) on a 45 degree angle and take 5 or 6 very light passes on the tearout area from the bottom of the bowl toward the top with the lathe running at normal cutting speed. This is basic shear scraping, If it's really bad, I bring out the Mylands, sanding sealer, or paste wax to help stiffen and support the fibers.

I must say, I haven't had to use anything but the skew in quite a while. Recently I've had some wet wood with such bad tearout (I mean bad hair-day bad). I just chucked it...er I mean...unchucked it and then chucked it. Not worth the time and hassle. I can do that now that I have a pretty good supply of wet wood.

Good luck with your next bowl.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Patrick - this is one of those times where photos would really come in handy!

You shouldn't be getting major tearout - and any number of things can cause that. The fact that you really had bad tearout on the outside of the bowl makes me wonder about your setup and the orientation the blank was in when you roughed the outside. Just like Wally mentioned - you have to go with the grain and you have to pay attention which direction that is because it changes when you are outside the bowl or inside.

[bob svoboda]

By watching Bill Grumbine's video and learning the shear cut and (especially effective) tangent cut, I have eliminated at least 90% of my tearout problems. Also +1 for power sanding. Don't get discouraged, you'll get it!

[Patrick Doody]

Something that most newbies and even some experienced turners don't pay enough attention to is CUT WITH THE GRAIN. With most woods, the surface left when cutting against the grain vs cutting with the grain makes a huge difference. Then learn to use the same gouge to lightly shear scrape after the final cut...also with the grain.

With face grain bowl turning, which you apparently were doing, cut from the small diameter to the large. From the foot to the rim. When turning an endgrain piece, do the opposite.

Sanding is the least fun part of turning...If you leave a smooth surface on the wood with the tool you'll eliminate much of the sanding.

A good example is when planing a board. Any woodworker knows that when you plane against the grain, you get a torn surface. The same is true when turning.

Wally
Great advice everyone! Wally, I was apparently cutting against the grain(rim to foot), I did it this way because I got in my head "always cut down hill" just teaching myself bad habits. Thanks everyone I'll practice some more this weekend.

[Thomas Canfield]

I was glad to see the first David comment about lubrication since I tend to forget that. Today I was sanding some spalted Sweet Gum that had a lot of end grain tear out in the punky area and sealing would have helped. I did use some power sanding with 80 grit to take care of that where otherwise 120 grit would be a good starting point. Good sandpaper can also make a lot of difference, and getting out all the marks with the coarser level before going to the next level will dramatically reduce the overall sanding time. The first level takes the longest but it is very important.

[Scott Hackler]

Another giant nod for a power sanding setup. Get it, is the greatest thing since the bowl gouge.

[Reed Gray]

Pretty good advise.

On the outside, turn from the foot to the rim, and on the inside, turn from the rim to the foot.

There are roughing cuts:just get the extra out of the way. Push or pull, with or against the grain, not pretty, but efficient.

Shaping cuts: clean up the mess, and refine the shape.

Then finish cuts. The finish cuts are very delicate, and will take a couple of passes with your favorite tool. I prefer a bowl scraper with a burnished burr. Some times the burr from the grinder works just as well. The scraper is always held at a 45 degree angle, never flat on the tool rest. Here, it is possible to go in either direction as the cuts are so dainty that it doesn't really make any difference, and you will get rid of most of the tear out. If the wood is dry, the shavings will appear to hang in the air. A gouge with the handle low, and rolled over so the cutting edge is touching, but the bevel is not will do the same cut.

Getting the wood wet will help cut down on the tear out. I use water, and let it sit for 60 seconds or so, then using a finish cut, take several passes to remove the wet wood.

Some woods will have tear out more than others. Silver maple is one of those, as are most of the soft maples. Cotton wood is another. Some times you just have to be content with 'that is as good as I can get it today, better the next time'.

The 80 grit gouge (sand paper) also works.

robo hippy

[John Shuk]

more than you want to but less than you are!