I need a good block plane & chisel set...

[Michael Dunn]

I have yet to buy a decent block plane & a decent chisel set. I honestly don't even know enough about what to get.

Any recommendations. brands to avoid? I am thinking something under $200 for the chisel set & and block plane. Also, sharpening stones & honing jigs, etc...

Thanx,

shotgunn

[Brian Kent]

Narex Chisels $30 to $60

Lie Nielsen Low Angle Block Plane $95

Norton 1000 8000 stone $72 or 3M Micro Abrasives (under $20) and a granite tile ($5)


Hows that?

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I second Brian's recommendation regarding the block. I have had mine for about 7 years (I think the price back then was $69!!:D), but a correction to his price -- it's $139. That's still a deal in the global world of good planes and it's a great one.

As to narex chisels, I bought a set based on good reviews and sent them back. They felt cheap. Didn't like the handles at all.

I've owned a set of Robert Sorby octagonal, London-style handled chisels which are very good, I also now have a set of Lie-Nielsens (good, but the handle is a bit small . . .), and a set of AMT chisels I inhereted from my dad. Surprisingly, the AMT get the sharpest and are often my "go-to" set.

I also agree with the Norton waterstones. You can get the combo 200/1000 and 4000/8000 for less than $100 many places -- they are often on sale. They get the blades very, very sharp when used correctly.

I have a granite reference plate which are a bit pricey, but believe a granite tile would work as well. Get some auto sandpaper and you can keep your stones flattened with the paper stuck to the granite.

Good luck.

[Brian Kent]

Here's where I got the LN Low angle block for $95:
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A221.htm

It's the #102.

Soon I hope to get the LN 60-1/2 low angle adjustable mouth block for $165.
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A260.htm

[Russell Sansom]

I think Brian's suggestions are excellent. The 2-Cherries are decent "cheap" chisels. Ashley Illes chisels are spoken well of, but I don't know from personal experience. From my point of view, all but the premium chisels require a good deal of work to flatten the backs. And you should probably budget in a couple coarse stones. In my case it's a coarse diamond and a 500 Shapton.

[James Carmichael]

Yup, second Brian's recommendations.

I wouldn't call Two Cherries cheap chisels. Prior to the introduction of the Lie Nielsen socket chisels, they were considered premium.

[Zach England]

Excellent block plane, less expensive, smaller than average:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&p=46791&cat=1,41182,48942

[Prashun Patel]

+1 for the Narex chisels.

For the block plane, you're smart to 'invest' in a good one now.

If yr buying new, there are 4 to consider:

The Veritas (Lee Valley) Apron Plane
The LN 102

The Veritas low angle adjustable block plane
The LN adjustable block plane.

LN's have a slightly larger following, but the Veritas's are a tad cheaper. The LN's have AMAZING resale value, and you'll be able to recoup yr money 100% if you ever sell, which you won't.

The adjustable block planes have an adjustable mouth. But this also makes the planes larger. Personally, I like the non-adjustable mouths (they are still depth-adjustable) bkz of the small size.

The Veritas's will give you a choice of O1 or A2 steel. The A2 is harder which means it takes a little longer to sharpen, but stays sharp longer.

The LN's also come in bronze or iron. The iron ones will be a little cheaper, but might rust if left in humid environments for long periods.

Personally, I have a Veritas Apron plane (A2) and like it.

[Andrew Gibson]

I would second either the Lee Vally low angle block plane or even the new skew block plane they have... but that one will take up most of the budget. The Lie Nielson is a wonderful plane as well.

I have not looked at chisels for a while. I have a set of Crown chisels from woodcraft and they get the job done, but I will be saving my pennies for the Lie Nielson chisels... one of each that they make :)

I have used the sandpaper sharpening method with good results, and with a hollow grind been able to freehand with good success. I am currently getting ready to pull the trigger on some Norton waterstones.

[Greg Peterson]

I am never far from my Stanley 60 1/2 block plane. I have a 9 1/2 and a 9 1/4.

The 60 1/2 is my favorite because it has a low angle blade. It is indispensable.

I got all of my planes for a song and a dance on Ebay. I've also bought some really nice individual chisels on the bay too.

For info on Stanly planes, just google "patrick's blood and gore". You will find exhaustive information.

[Greg Portland]

For $200 I think you'll want to go used with the chisels and planes ($50 plane, $10/chisel). That will leave you with $100 for sharpening supplies. First time sharpeners may find a honing guide to be a big benefit. As mentioned above, water and/or diamond stones can be fairly expensive depending on size. Sandpaper on granite or float glass is the cheapest solution and you can get excellent results.

[Bryan Hunt]

For chisels, I have a set of these: http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1234 and love them.

I sharpen my chisels and plane irons with a Norton 1000 and 8000 wet stone, and they are wicked sharp. I accidentally touched my finger with the blade of a chisel while putting one away in the leather case and was in need of a band-aid.

I also have the following planes from Lie Nielsen:

4 1/2 Smooth
5 1/5 Bench
60 1/2 Rabbit Block Plane
62 Low Angle Jack
7 1/2 Low Angle Jointer
Tongue & Groove Plane
Large Router Plane

Selecting a plane greatly depends on what you want to do. If you are looking for a large plane, the 5 1/2 is my favorite. If you are looking for a small plane, the Rabbit has the added benefit of the blade going all the way to the edge which is nice for cleaning up rabbits and tenons.

The Lie Nielsen Rabbit Plane is within your budget, but a set of 5 chisels will set you back $275 (without the leather case). I think most would agree that the craftsmanship of Lie Nielsen tools is top notch, and I believe all of their tools are made in the USA.

[george wilson]

" Narex chisels feel cheap" Did you try them out at all ? I agree that they have ugly handles. What that has do do with the edge holding ability of the blades is zero. Narex chisels are the best lower cost chisel out there. Don't think that Narex makes cheap things. I have a Narex universal boring head for my milling machine that cost about $2500.00. Among boring heads,that isn't at all cheap.

I don't like the handles on my Pfiel chisels either. I don't mind replacing them with my own,though,because I like Pfiel's quality steel.

[paul cottingham]

+1 narex chisels. mine were easy to sharpen and hold their edge well. they work well in my large, clumsy hands.

+1 LV low angle block. great general purpose plane.

[James Phillips]

The Groz low angle block plane at woodcraft is good if you do not mind doing some tune-up. It took some work, but mine cuts as good as the premiums. If you were talking a bench plane I would not cut corners, but for a small plane I think you are OK. I would pick two sizes of the LN bevel edge chisels and you will have about $75 left to get sharpening supplies, but that will not get you everything. I use a course/very fine diamond stone and a 4000/8000 norton water stone as well as a strop. Big investment, but my tools are sick sharp

[Terry Welty]

Narex works for me... affordable and they sparpen well...

[Michael Dunn]

So what is the difference between a block pane and a bench plane? Forgive my ignorance, I haven't had much experience with hand tools like this...

Thanx,

shotgunn

[John Coloccia]

A block plane is bevel up and has no chipbreaker. A bench plane is bevel down and has a chip breaker. Block planes are usually small and meant for one handed use, like Veritas' apron plane. Bench planes are usually large and have a tote and a knob for two handed use, like a jointer.

The lines are fuzzy, though. I have a carving plane that is used bevel down, but has no chip breaker. No one would ever look at this thing and call it a bench plane, believe me. There are also some large bevel up planes, like the bevel up smoothers and jointers, that are not at all what you think about when you think of a block plane.

The way the terms are usually used is if it's a traditional "bench" plane, like jointers, fore planes, etc, it'll be called a bench plane. If it's a traditional block plane, it will be called a block plane. If it's something that's not obvious, it's usually called something else. The Veritas Bevel Up Smoother is technically a block plane, but most people would never refer to it as a block plane because it doesn't really capture the essence of the tool. They call it the BU Smoother.

[Paul Ryan]

I cannot reccomend the Narex chisels. I own 1 a 3/8" to replace a set. I don't think the steel is any better than a Irwin/Marples and the handle is just plain cheap. I would buy a Irwin/Marples blue handle set for about $60 and a stanley block plane. Ebay finds are good price and you can learn how to set up a plane while going through it. It is invaluable knowledge to learn. LV makes nice block planes but at $140+shipping that will put a dent in the budget. And you need sharpening supplies yet. For sharpening I would go to ENCO and buy a granite plate for $30 shipped and buy some sand paper and a stanley honeing jig and use the scary sharp method. You will have a real nice sharpening set for about $60. If you want to splurg on the sharpening buy a MKII honing jig from Lee Valley.

[Russell Sansom]

The scary sharp method is a good way to start. The cost accelerates, but by the time you're ready to move on to stones, you've used your last piece of sand paper, so you haven't left any cost behind.
And 1+ on the Enco "surface plate!" Someone here gave us a discount code that added FREE shipping. They were out of the $24 plate, so I had to spend $32. ( looks like the same plate, so it might have been a subtle way for them to increase price once the SMC gold rush cut in). But that was the only cost. 4 days later a 70 POUND package appeared on my front porch. I needed a dolly to get it into the shop. It was poorly packed and had a little nickel-sized chip out of one edge, but I'm letting that go. It is 3" thick and will hold 4 scary-sharp sharpening stations. It doesn't scoot around on the table top.

[Brian Kent]

I have a carving plane that is used bevel down, but has no chip breaker. No one would ever look at this thing and call it a bench plane, believe me.

Hey John, what is a carving plane? I haven't heard that term before.

Brian

[Tri Hoang]

Footprint 465 set of 4 chisels for $50 on Amazon. They have comfortable handles (wood) and good steel. Edge retention on these rivals the A2 steel in my LN chisels.

Veritas Apron plane or Veritas DX60. I'd not recommend the Veritas LA block as it's a little too big/heavy for most hands. The DX60 is the one to get if you want to spend $150+ on a block plane. The extra money spent on the DX60 is well worth it.

The key to enjoy these tools is sharpening. Unless you can properly sharpen them, they won't get used much. Google "brent sharpening" & follow his instructions.

[John Powers]

Lots of nice stuff on Ebay and Craigs; lots of junk. Buy new or buy what you can handle to be sure you can use what your buying. I love that little LN LA 102. It doubles as a nice piece of jewelry and a fine tool.

[John Coloccia]

Hey John, what is a carving plane? I haven't heard that term before.

Brian
http://www.violinmaking-planes.com/ibex-violin-makers-planes

These where designed to carve the tops and backs for violins, cellos, archtop guitars, etc. Note the curvature on the soles of some of them (some are radiused, some are flat). Depending on the direction of the curve, these kinds of planes are also called "compass" planes or "radius" planes, but these Ibex planes happen to curve front to back and side to side, so what would that be? I use them for archtop guitars.

I suspect this plane would absolutely rock carving out chair seats, and if I ever did a carved seat it would be my go to tool, but I've never heard of anyone approaching it like this. I guess you naturally gravitate towards what's familiar.

It can actually be used bevel up or bevel down. I forget how it comes from the factory, but I've always had much better luck bevel down. There's one of these guys that's about the size of your thumbnail. You would use that on a violin to trim and fit the braces, for example....not much use on a guitar :)

http://surfsource.net/Manufacturing/Clark%20Foam/Clarkfoampage.htm
Look a couple of pictures down to see an example.

[Rob Fisher]

...Veritas Apron plane or Veritas DX60. I'd not recommend the Veritas LA block as it's a little too big/heavy for most hands. The DX60 is the one to get if you want to spend $150+ on a block plane. The extra money spent on the DX60 is well worth it...

Really, the LV LA block is bigger/heavier than the new DX60? I thought the DX60 was bigger. By accounts I read (meaning C. Schwarz) it is a two handed block plane, where the LA block is good for single handed use (I thought). I have only handled the NX60 (basicly the same size and weight as the DX60) one time and it felt big in my hands, and I don't have small hands (probably average sized). I have not handled the LA block but that is the plane I am planing on getting as my first low angle block, so I am interested in your thoughts on this. The NX60/DX60 sure are lookers though. :cool:

Thanks,
Rob

[Tri Hoang]

Really, the LV LA block is bigger/heavier than the new DX60? I thought the DX60 was bigger. By accounts I read (meaning C. Schwarz) it is a two handed block plane, where the LA block is good for single handed use (I thought). I have only handled the NX60 (basicly the same size and weight as the DX60) one time and it felt big.


The DX60 has same width as the LN LA block, just a little longer....while the Veritas LA block is a bit wider.

[Harry Goodwin]

I have three mortise chisels from Narex. They are great and hold edge great with all my pounding. Harry

[Sam Takeuchi]

I have a few Ibex finger planes and the smallest one being the 10mm (3/8") wide blade. From factory, they come bevel down, while you can use it bevel up, convex sole ones would have very little stability if used bevel up. Not much sole contact to keep plane steady while in bevel up scraping motion. Even if you hold it rigidly, it's hard to stay rigid. It'd easily skip and jitter at the slightest change in wood density or grain.

I think carving out chair seats would fall into one of its uses, especially if you had their palm plane (27.5mm blade) and if one can afford it (it's like $150 to $160). For something as specialized as convex sole plane, probably it makes more sense to use convex sole spokeshave, convex sole wooden plane, vintage Stanley 100-1/2 (or repro or clone of) for fraction of the price of those bronze palm plane.

My convex sole Ibex gets a lot of use, mostly for shaping classical guitar braces and occasional spot planing while inlaying rosette. But for those who make furnitures and such, I don't know how useful convex sole plane would be.

As for Narex set, I got a set of four. Personally I think they are fine. I don't think they are great, but they aren't bad either. $27 for a set of four, I think they are better than a lot of chisels sold in that price range. Handles aren't much to marvel at, but it's quite beefy, so if you can't stand it, there is still some room to modify the stock handle to your liking. These chisels have really fine grinding mark that are so slight and uniform, look really clean unlike finish on many cheap chisels that look like they used concrete floor of the factory as the final polishing grit. Grinding them out and flattening doesn't take too much effort. Steel feels really light, it doesn't have the weight of old steel. Some people might consider it feels 'cheap', but it sharpens quite well without a lot of trouble. They'll hold edge fine, definitely better than some of the recent production of Irwin Blue chip chisel or similarly shady quality chisels offered by other brands. If you need a first set, Narex set would definitely serve very well until you are ready for better chisels.

[Jim Koepke]

Michael,

As is usual when a question like this is asked there are a lot of great answers.

My only real disagreement is with a comment about using coarse stones for flattening the backs of blades. My feeling is they wear too fast and you would be better off with coarse sandpaper. A diamond stone could be a different story, but the only diamond stone in my house is a small one for sharpening kitchen knives. But that is just my opinion and that is what all the answers have been. It can be very confusing.

In my opinion, it may be most economical to start with the scary sharp method and as you learn to sharpen acquire stones in the finer grits of 1000 to 8000 or above if you are so inclined. For work below 1000 grit continue to use the abrasive sheets. As time goes on the only time the lower grits are needed is to rehab an old tool.

My opinion is based on my experience. Being the frugal woodworker has me always looking for used tools. Occasionally new tools are bought.

In the block plane world, this #60 low angle block plane is one example of what is commonly meant:

149442

Here is a link to a post I did on low angle block planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1246005#post1246005

Bob Smalser also has posted a few. They are linked in the first post in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs "sticky" at the top of the Neanderthal Haven.

The one in this picture was bought at a yard sale for $1. It was in need of some work and though it did work acceptably, it was not a great plane. In the picture it is shown making shavings on end grain.

I have been happy for years with a pair of #60 style low angle Stanley block planes. They have performed well over the years. Yesterday a Lie-Nielsen #60-1/2 low angle block plane arrived and it is a better plane in many ways. In all fairness to the Stanley block planes, they were made at a time when Stanley was more interested in cutting cost than supplying woodworkers with the highest quality tools that can be sold as Lie-Nielsen seems to have for their business model. For me, it was a difficult decision between the offerings of Lie-Nielsen or the Lee Valley (Veritas) offerings. The DX60s look beautiful. From everyone that owns Veritas planes comments it is clear their quality is every bit as good as LN and their products have a few more modern design features. LN tends to be a more traditional design. I wanted a DVD that LN carries so that and having dealt with them in the past swayed my purchase.

Earlier Stanley block planes may have been better. I do have two Stanley #65 size planes from earlier years and they are both fine tools. The problem is in finding good ones and the time and trouble involved with picking the winners.

This is what is commonly referred to when someone is talking about a bench plane.

149441

The one pictured is a #6, it is 18 inches with a 2-3/8 inch wide blade. It is not really a convenient size for one's first plane.

My answer is that there are many ways to go with your original question.

One would be to consider what your usage will be.

If you are gluing up panels and want to clean up edges, you may want a plane a bit bigger than the #6 shown.

If you want to clean up and square up a little end grain, then the block plane shown can do that.

If you need to smooth small areas after a piece comes out of a power planer, then something in the size of a #4 may be more to your liking.

Here is another link to more information on hand planes than most people want to know.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=104945

So now about the chisels. I started out with some chisels from the local hardware store that were actually pretty good. They are still in my shop, but are seldom used. For the three that I bought, less than $30 was spent. I decided that I liked socket chisels so have acquired quite a few through ebay. Some winners, some losers. My chisels have different lengths for different uses. Just because my accumulation has multiple chisels of the same size does not mean anyone else should do it my way. Do it your own way.

My suggestion would be to buy an inexpensive set that others have found to be usable and of good quality. After you have used these for awhile, you will know more about what you like and dislike in the chisels. You will also attain skills at sharpening. You may find like myself, to be really happy with your chisels you will want to make your own handles.

Have fun and learn from what ever you do,

jim