Anyone Spalted Holly?

[Baxter Smith]

During a benefit walk/run at a local nature preserve early yesterday morning, I passed a large holly that had snapped off during heavy snows this winter. Since it had fallen across the trail, it had been cut up into manageable lengths and moved off to the side and left to rot. Since those manageable lengths were not too far from a road, they somehow found there way to my house that afternoon.;) Since the cherry burl I collected last weekend has all been roughed out, finished turned, or sent off on a wood exchange, the Holly was happy to feel needed.:)

I left a couple of the pieces long and round, but most I cut in two, so each piece is a little over a foot in length and then split through the pith. I anchor sealed all the ends to await their fate this week. I would like to try spalting much of the wood. Some I will try in blanks and some I thought I would rough turn then spalt. Turned a hollowform (which showed no signs of spalting) and a simple bowl this evening which looks as follows.
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For some reason, the color on some of the split pieces seem to be much more pronounced than when they were split yesterday. I have read some of Seri Robinsons articles on spalting and believe this to be a blue stain. Will this spread just sitting in my woodshed while it drys? I would like to have zone lines form which I believe would take a different type(competing fungus). If I just buried this in some leaves in the woods with some pieces of spalted maple that had zone lines, would that be good enough, or should I go looking for more rotted wood to mix in with it? I will try this with both blanks(trimming the anchorsealed ends) and some of the roughouts I do this week.

Any suggestions or comments about experiences with trying this are welcome!

[John Keeton]

Baxter, I have not tried to spalt any of it, but I can tell you the spalted holly I bought from Mike Smith is beautiful stuff. In talking with him, he has found it very difficult to keep the holly white and avoid the blue stain. I do think it is a different fungus, as the holly I have has very distinct, and very black thin spalting lines, with very little other color. Lots of contrast.

Some of my pieces have worm or bug holes in them that are powder filled, so you may want to watch for that. I don't know if that infestation occurred while the wood was green, or afterward.

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks John,
Your spalted Holly piece was the one that got me thinking along these lines. I thought it was great as well! I believe Dead Mans fingers is one that can cause zone lines or if there are two competing fungus in the wood. I was hoping that the stain fungus that is present would qualify as one and that I would simply need to add one more for it go fight with. The stain by itself doesn't appeal to me. Maybe if I rough turn a piece that doesn't appear spalted I should keep it separate from those that are stained, though its probably all contaminated with it.

[Seri Robinson]

Spalting holly shouldn't be much different than spalting most other woods. From your pictures, it does look like you might have blue stain, although I would need several closer shots to confirm that. Blue stains aren't generally strong enough to zone line with another fungus - they just get run over. For zone lines, you'll want to get some Dead Man's Finger on there and keep the wood at a medium moisture content for a few weeks to get decent colonization.

Your blue stain will continue to spread until the wood dries. You could stop it by sticking some Turkey Tail on there, but then you also run the risk of the Turkey Tail removing the blue.

I wouldn't suggest burying in leaves if stain doesn't do it for you. Stick your wood in a plastic tub with a lid and let it spalt that way. Soil and leaves have a ton of organic matter in them that will darken up your wood and stain it. You can get spalting just fine in just plastic as long as the temp is warm and the wood is moist. Just remember to get that anchorseal off before you do any spalting.

Good luck!

[Baxter Smith]

After finishing up some crown molding for my sisterinlaw and husband this morning I stopped by the nature preserve and wandered around the woods looking for different fung. Collected a bag of oak leaves and a couple of different kinds.
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Found what I thought might be turkey tail
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and a couple of unknowns.
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Couldn't find any dead mans fingers.

Picked up 4 plastic tubs and a bag of vermiculite as well before coming home.
My plan was to add some blanks, vermiculite and the two unknowns to one tub, the leaves to a third and try some cut up pieces of maple from my wood pile that have some nice spalting in them. This picture is of a couple pieces I cut this winter but there is more still outisde.
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For zone lines, you'll want to get some Dead Man's Finger on there and keep the wood at a medium moisture content for a few weeks to get decent colonization.

Your blue stain will continue to spread until the wood dries. You could stop it by sticking some Turkey Tail on there, but then you also run the risk of the Turkey Tail removing the blue.

I wouldn't suggest burying in leaves if stain doesn't do it for you. Stick your wood in a plastic tub with a lid and let it spalt that way. Soil and leaves have a ton of organic matter in them that will darken up your wood and stain it. You can get spalting just fine in just plastic as long as the temp is warm and the wood is moist. Just remember to get that anchorseal off before you do any spalting.

Good luck!
Thanks for you input Seri. I was excited to see it when I got home! I appreciate it so much I will ask a couple more questions! Is it worth going back and looking around some more for Deadmans fingers? Would they be visible now? Are any of the things I am thinking about putting in the tubs not a good idea?

[Baxter Smith]

Here are a couple of things growing on the maple in my woodpile?
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Would smearing the fungi over the end grain of a roughed out bowl help accelerate things? ( I was thinking about those unknown black ones)

Another picuture of my blue stain?
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Thanks again for any input. Having you a member here is a tremedous resource for all!

[charlie knighton]

good thread, if someone can describe or has a photo of dead man's fingers i would like to see it

any other stuff to watch for, my walking in the woods is mainly in late fall, winter, and early spring, its almost poisom ivy and deer tick time

[Cody Colston]

Lots of examples on the net. Here's one.

[Mike Minto]

baxter, i have some holly that has spalted nicely after sitting in log form on top of some treated lumber, covered with leaves and sitting in the shade. lots of the wood is kinda grey, with zone lines throughout. mine lost alot of weight, and turns very easily.

[Edward Bartimmo]

Baxter,

Looking forward to the box of burl...mequite waiting to be boxed and sent back.

I have some spalted Holly and in both instances the spalting is dramatically different. I have some from Hurricane Ike...the tree died but stayed in one piece. The spalt is a blue stain, similar to what you get in Hackberry. On initial inspection of a crosscut it isn't very special molted and no strong lines, but when you rip it down the grain the colors jump out. I am reserving a lot of this for shallow bowls/platters or resawing to lumber for boxes. The other spalted holly that I sealed fresh has amazing variety of colors ranging from light pinkish almond to mocha brown all at the same time. This will look great for bowls or resaw lumber.

With Houston's heat and humidity the spalt process for me is simply coating in anchorseal and leaving in garage...

[Seri Robinson]

good thread, if someone can describe or has a photo of dead man's fingers i would like to see it

any other stuff to watch for, my walking in the woods is mainly in late fall, winter, and early spring, its almost poisom ivy and deer tick time

Here you go:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/17734/spalt-your-own-lumber-fungus-of-the-month-dead-mans-finger-and-turkey-tail-part-ii

[Seri Robinson]

A good start. None of the fungi you took photos of above are turkey tail, but all but the black one will spalt well.

To answer your questions:


Is it worth going back and looking around some more for Deadmans fingers?

It depends on what type of spalting you are after. The fingers spalt more slowly, but are far less destructive than turkey tail.


Would they be visible now?

There might be some young ones starting, but at this stage they'll still be blue, not black.


Are any of the things I am thinking about putting in the tubs not a good idea?
Get rid of the black poo-looking one. The others are just general white rots and will bleach your wood quickly (and may antagonize enough for zone lines).

Good luck!

[Seri Robinson]

Ok, in the post with the bluestain shots (yup, thats some nice blue stain) you have turkey tail on the left log. And yes, putting the fungi on the end grain will help speed things along.

Glad I can be of help!


Here are a couple of things growing on the maple in my woodpile?
149179149180
Would smearing the fungi over the end grain of a roughed out bowl help accelerate things? ( I was thinking about those unknown black ones)

Another picuture of my blue stain?
149181149182

Thanks again for any input. Having you a member here is a tremedous resource for all!

[Donny Lawson]

This is a subject that I do have experience in.I cut 2 large holly trees last spring and hauled them down to the woods in log form. I placed them about 5ft in the edge of the woods out of the sun. I then packed some leaves and pine needles all around the ends and sides and left it alone until about a month ago.Just let nature take its course and you will have some beautiful results. I will see if I can get some pictures for you. Maple and Holly spalt about the same. Holly has smaller thinner black lines than Maple.It usually takes a little longer to spalt Holly than Maple. I love working with spalted wood.I'm working on spalting some Red maple and Sycamore right now.
Donny

[Baxter Smith]

baxter, i have some holly that has spalted nicely after sitting in log form on top of some treated lumber, covered with leaves and sitting in the shade. lots of the wood is kinda grey, with zone lines throughout. mine lost alot of weight, and turns very easily.
Thanks Mike for the idea about setting the logs on some pressure treated pieces if I leave them in the woods. Might help avoid the termites.:) Some pieces of the maple in my woodpile had great lines like the one I posted. Others were just a dirty grey. Don't know what the differences were that caused that since they were all from the same tree, cut at the same time etc. but I know which ones I prefer!



I have some spalted Holly and in both instances the spalting is dramatically different. I have some from Hurricane Ike...the tree died but stayed in one piece. The spalt is a blue stain, similar to what you get in Hackberry. On initial inspection of a crosscut it isn't very special molted and no strong lines, but when you rip it down the grain the colors jump out. I am reserving a lot of this for shallow bowls/platters or resawing to lumber for boxes. The other spalted holly that I sealed fresh has amazing variety of colors ranging from light pinkish almond to mocha brown all at the same time. This will look great for bowls or resaw lumber.

With Houston's heat and humidity the spalt process for me is simply coating in anchorseal and leaving in garage...
Thanks Edward. Does the blue stain stay blue/green or just change to a dirty grey? It hasn't been spalting for very long so I suppose there will be lots of changes over the next couple of months as the temps heat up with just the spalting that has already started. It gets pretty hot and humid here as well so wood doesn't last long outside.


A good start. None of the fungi you took photos of above are turkey tail, but all but the black one will spalt well.

To answer your questions:


It depends on what type of spalting you are after. The fingers spalt more slowly, but are far less destructive than turkey tail.


There might be some young ones starting, but at this stage they'll still be blue, not black.




Good luck!
Thanks Seri. I wasn't sure about the one I thought might be Turkey tail. I remembered reading about anything with color wasn't it, but it happened to be growing on a piece I could break off easily and carry. I will keep an eye out for the fingers.

Ok, in the post with the bluestain shots (yup, thats some nice blue stain) you have turkey tail on the left log. And yes, putting the fungi on the end grain will help speed things along.

Glad I can be of help!
A big help! This seems to be something of a crapshoot as to what you are going to get but with a few pointers I think the odds of getting some thing good will improve. I was busy this afternoon and evening but will pack a few of the boxes tomorrow with the the two types of fungi. One question I asked but am still not sure about. If I was to take some wood with the spalting I like, cut it into thin slices and lay that in contact with the holly, would the fungi spread to the holly?

Maple and Holly spalt about the same. Holly has smaller thinner black lines than Maple.It usually takes a little longer to spalt Holly than Maple.
Thanks Donny. I had some nice spalting(accidental) on some maple last summer and would like to get something similar with the holly. The maple was just left out in the sun in a woodpile for the summer.:)

[Edward Bartimmo]

Baxter,

The blue spalted has stayed constant and not greyed out. See photos of two types of spalt pattern that I have had in Holly.

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[Seri Robinson]

Baxter,

Check out this post:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/24717/spalt-your-own-lumber-nutrient-supplements-for-spalted-wood-eg-beer

for info on using wood shavings, leaves, etc. Putting pre-spalted wood in your bins will only help if the fungus is still active, and you have no way of knowing if it is or isn't. You're far better off using mushrooms.

Putting the wood in bins is going to prevent that general surface discoloring that someone mentioned before. You'll just end up with straight spalting, assuming you didn't get any brown rot fungi in there by mistake:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/24027/spalt-your-own-lumber-just-say-no-to-brown-rot :eek:

[Edward Bartimmo]

In addition to the aforementioned reasons in the preceding post the beer that we buy at the store is pasturized before bottling. In other words, the yeast is killed before we ever get it. However, there are "live" yeast beers still avilable. These tend to be specialty beers from Europe. I met a gentlemen on a trip who was an avid enthusiast....helped form some national live beer club in the US.

Perhaps a live beer would cause better results. If not it should taste great and maybe you can pee on the wood afterwards...

[Seri Robinson]

In addition to the aforementioned reasons in teh preceding post the beer that we buy at the store is pasturized before bottling. In other words, the yeast is killed before we ever get it. However, there are "live" yeast beers still avilable. These tend to be specialty beers from Europe. I met a gentlemen on a trip who was an avid enthusiast....helped form some national live beer club in the US.

Perhaps a live beer would cause better results. If not it should taste great and maybe you can pee on the wood afterwards...

The yeast, alive or dead, will not affect spalting. The theory behind the beer is the sugar content (hopps, malt, whatever) that stimulates fungal growth by providing them with more easily digestible sugars. Problem with that is the fungi won't bother eating the wood if they have tons of sugar around (would you eat your potatoes if you had an unlimited supply of chocolate? I think not :p)

[Baxter Smith]

Baxter,

The blue spalted has stayed constant and not greyed out. See photos of two types of spalt pattern that I have had in Holly.

Thanks for the pictures Edward. Like the colors in the first one best. Glad to hear the blue won't just become grey.




Putting the wood in bins is going to prevent that general surface discoloring that someone mentioned before. You'll just end up with straight spalting, assuming you didn't get any brown rot fungi in there by mistake:

Thanks for the links Seri. I had seen both but reread them again.
I had a few hours this morning to play so decided to try the following. The first two roughouts with blue stain I will leave drying in paper bags.

The two roughouts I turned this morning I put in a tub with a couple of blanks that I just cut the anchorsealed ends off of. Followed your directions of layers of wet vermiculite alternating with layers of wet wood. Will see how just the blue stain develops.
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In the second tub I added these blanks after rubbing the fresh cut ends with both of these fungi.
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These blanks probaly also have the blue stain to some extent but this one apparently has something else as this was the color before I even rubbed the ends with the two fungi shown in the previous picture.
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I will try to find a couple more kinds of fungi to try in tubs 3 and 4.

It will be interesting to see the differences in the tubs (hopefully) though the chance for contamination of some type seems pretty possible.

[Seri Robinson]

Can't wait to see the results!