32mm system

[Paul B. Cresti]

How many of you guys use the 32mm system? For shelving only and/or slide and hinge installation?

[Paul Berendsohn]

I use it whenever possible for hinges...

[Steve Clardy]

Hinges only. And that's just for the 32mm hole in the door.

[John Gregory]

Same as Steve. Just for the hinge cup

[Byron Trantham]

Door hinge hole only. I bought the 32mm fostner bit.

[Jason Thaxton]

I build custom kitchens and built ins and use it for shelf and hardware. I dont use it for construction holes. I have a line boring machine what a time saver. I use conformat screws for construction.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Lately I used it for adjustable shelves and hinges.

Regards,

Christian

[Paul B. Cresti]

Christian,

Do you use the Festool drilling system and your 1010? any comments/feedback on it?

[Greg Mann]

Christian,

Do you use the Festool drilling system and your 1010? any comments/feedback on it?
Paul,

Give me a couple days and I'll tell you what I think. I have a first time project coming up. BTW, John Lucas has a review on his website. www.woodshopdemos.com (http://www.woodshopdemos.com)

Greg

[Mark Singer]

It is a great system and flexible...you can use it for shelf pins...door hinges and still use the Kreg or other metods of cabinet assembly

[Christian Aufreiter]

Christian,

Do you use the Festool drilling system and your 1010? any comments/feedback on it?

Hi Paul,

no, I don't own the Festool hole drilling system. I built a simple template which works quite well along with a router, decent drill bit and a copying ring.
The Festool system is probably more convenient for intensive use but I'm pretty satisfied with my solution.
You can check out a pic at http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=11826

Christian

[Jerry Golick]

Hi Paul,

I built a set of utility cabinets going full 32mm this last summer. It was my first real "woodworking" project. I built everything from 4x8 5/8" melamine (or as I like to call it 26mm). Did all the edge banding, etc, myself.

My primary tools were all by festool, (ATF-55, OF-1000, MFT-1080, and a couple of different guide rails) including the Festool LR-32 SYS kit. IMO - it is a great system for euro-32 style building. I liked the way no extra holes had to be drilled to fit the hinges, and the way the slides fit perfectly front and back with no need for a jig to line things up.

A couple of other critical resources for me were Danny Proulx's excellent book on Building Frameless Kitchen Cabinets, a program called CutList Plus for making the sheet cutting layouts, and a two sets of the corner Jet speed clamps which are, again imo, incredible and should be in everybody's shop.

All the joinery was simple butt joings using euro-style confirmat screws, which I found were much better than the more standard PB screws.

My next projects (not until next summer when I get the country house back). Will be building a walk in closet, and a wall to wall entertainment system. I intend to stick with the euro-32 system. It is easy to understand, easy to build, and makes sense. Although it really does help if you do everything in metric! :)

I've attached a couple of photos of how things turned out. You can see a photo of the completed set of cabinets in the "32mm construction" thread (I tried to attach it again but the program won't let me). Hope this helps.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jerry,
Thanks for the feedback. Question on those confirmat screws for mel. Did you simply put mel glue along the but edge, place the two pieces together, then drill with the special bit and then install screw?

[Jerry Golick]

Jerry,
Thanks for the feedback. Question on those confirmat screws for mel. Did you simply put mel glue along the but edge, place the two pieces together, then drill with the special bit and then install screw?
I didn't use any glue at all, nor do I think it is really required when working with this material (though I know lots of people don't agree). Danny Proulx does discuss the issue in his book, and concludes that it is not required.

That having been said, I did find that when I was joining the pieces together, I did have to use some clamps to hold the edges tight together while drilling the holes with the step bit. Otherwise I would get some waste buildup inside the joint and it was not possible to get a nice solid fit.

Another advantage of using the confirmat screws, is I found they didn't tend to damage the melamine quite as much when they went in.

Of course, for side panels that will be exposed it would be better to use biscuits or dowels for the joints, since you don't want the screws to show. In my case, since they were utility cabs, I simply covered the screws with stick on white plastic caps that are readiy available.

I've attached two photos. One shows the simple clamp arrangement (in this case for a drawer carcass and the other showing the damage a PB screw can do if you drill it too far in. With the confirmat screws I never had that problem.

[John Renzetti]

Hi Jerry, I like the confirmats also. Great for when you also need to build something that needs to be disassembled also.
Did you freehand drill the holes for the confirmats. I have an attachment called the Zentrix which fits on the end of a drill. Works great. Helps keep everthing straight and aligned. Hafele sells them.
take care,
John

[Paul B. Cresti]

John,
I can always count on you enticing me to spend more money :) How much did the Zentrix and drill cost? and does it work well? I noticed that one is required to have at least 2500rpm for the bits does a cordless drill work to drive the screws?

[Jerry Golick]

John,
I can always count on you enticing me to spend more money :) How much did the Zentrix and drill cost? and does it work well? I noticed that one is required to have at least 2500rpm for the bits does a cordless drill work to drive the screws?FWIW - I drilled all my holes free hand with a Delta 18v cordless, with torgue to spare. I used the confirmat step bit and then had to switch to a pozi head driver for the screw. But that Zentrix sounds very interesting cause every now and then I would get the alignment wrong, and the next thing you knew I had a nasty bit of melamine popping up inside the cabinet.

By the way, you can find a pretty good discussion on the use of confirmats and the zentrix jig on WoodWeb at:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Confirmat_screw_assembly.html

Thanks for the tip John!

[Greg Mann]

Christian,

Do you use the Festool drilling system and your 1010? any comments/feedback on it?
Paul,

I promised to let you know what I felt of the system once I used it. I have a built-in cabinet in-process and tonight was shelf pin hole night. I set up the 32mm drilling system with my 1010 for the first time, the system having just arrived today. It took about 40 minutes to set up , including calibrating the stops. It might have taken less if I had read the instruction but they are pretty useless anyway, except for the drawings. I always like to see if I can work out the logic of a tool for myself. It seems to stick with me better when I do. Anyway, I digress. Two hours later I was done even though I could not take full advantage of the system because I had not planned around the system to begin with and I needed to match my spacings to the commercial face-frame I was using. I felt it was not bad for 150 holes or so being a first timer. Imagine my surprise when I did the official count: 358 holes! LOML wanted lots of shelf options; she got 'em. I'm a happy camper.

Greg

[Paul B. Cresti]

Greg,
So do you think you could do it faster now that you got the hang of it? and do you thing the price tag was worth it ( I assume you bought the whole system in systainer and the guide rail)? vs something like a jig-it system from rockler (it is a template you use with a drill)?

[Jerry Golick]

Hi Greg,

The two things that kinda threw me for a loop when I first started drilling the holes was the idea that side panels could be balanced, or unbalanced. Balanced means you can use and side panel for left or right, unbalanced means you have to keep in mind which is which (I drilled for "right hand side" panels before I figured that out :confused: )

I also had to figure out the difference between upper and lower cabs. Since the upper ones are normally just shelves, the rear offset hole placement is not too critical. For the bottoms, if you are going to use drawer slides, without a jig, you have to get the offset right for the slides you are using. The LR-32 really helped me out once I figured out how to calculate the offset (I built a small excel spreadsheet to jelp me out). Once you do, the drawers slides are easy to install, no jig is required, and everything lines up nice and straight.

One thing though about screwing into the system holes, I found that the short euro screws were the best for mounting slides and hinges.

BTW - I also found it much easier to install the slides before I assembled the cabinets (I figured that out after building the first two! ;)

[Greg Mann]

Greg,
So do you think you could do it faster now that you got the hang of it? and do you thing the price tag was worth it ( I assume you bought the whole system in systainer and the guide rail)? vs something like a jig-it system from rockler (it is a template you use with a drill)?
I bought the drilling system separate of the complete systainer packaged deal. I already had the guiderail and clamps, plus a spare systainer, so it was a cheaper way to go. On this job, a longer rail would have been nice because the built-in will be 84 inches high, but it was not a big deal to slide the rail. Knowing what I know now, I am sure I could cut the time in half just based on planning around the system in the first place. Plus, about halfway through the job, I learned that Festool's pointed 5mm drill can be plunged quite quickly without fear of breakout (in plywood, at least). I drilled through, because since it is a built in, nothing will show and there is also a center upright that will support shelves on both sides.

It will be worth it, as I have plans to do a fair amount of casework. I admit I have a weakness for tools that work the way they are designed to and that are elegant in their execution. Also, having been involved in precision machining all my life, I go a little nuts about accuracy. I know, that with good technique, this system will never disappoint me.

Greg

[John Renzetti]

Paul and Jerry, I'll dig up some info on the Zentrix and get it to you. I can probably take some pictures also.
One drawback that I found is that it just won't fit on any drill. I had an Hitachi that worked. I think Hafele has the drill for around $90. It's a corded drill, plenty of power.
Paul, did you know that those Aigner fence plates are now on sale for only $1k. Aren't you glad I didn't know you before you bought that MM equipment. :)
talk to you later,
John