Making shop cabinets for the first time and need help with drawer slides

[Stephen Saar]

I'm making some small, shop cabinets, in fact these will be the first cabinets I've ever made. I'm making them out of MDF, mostly because I don't care if they last a long time. I figure I'll end up making a bunch of mistakes since this is my first cabinet build so might as well as make them out of something I don't care about.

I'm currently trying to figure out the depth for the slides. My cabinet size is going to be 40.5" wide, 30" tall, and 20" deep. I'm looking at these slides (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21473) and thought about using the 20" slides, but I wasn't sure what the 20" really meant. Does that mean the slides are meant for 20" drawers, or that their total movement is 20", or something else entirely. I looked at the documentation on the slides, but it didn't seem to have anything terribly helpful.

Any advice for this noob is welcome.

Thanks.

-Stephen

[Carroll Courtney]

The total length of the drawer side will be 20" long.Having 20"depth cabinets w/a back,you will have to go with 18"drawer slides to give the back some clearance.
MDF is pretty tuff material to use for your first set of cabinets.Good luck and post some pics as you progress----Carroll

[Steve Griffin]

You are not joking about the data sheet with those slides-I've never seen less info on the install sheet.

Typically slides come in the depth of drawer they are best for. Often side mount slides like these are actually about .25" smaller than that.

Always add a bit of tolerance to your system. If you have 20" interior space, I'd make drawers an eighth smaller. (If one of your drawer cuts is off a 1/64th, and one of your box parts is out of square 1/32 and a side drifts away from the rip fence 1/32, Murphy will pay you a visit and make sure that all those tiny errors conspire to cheat you out of a true 20" deep cabinet)

Some drawer slides need even more room than the drawer box, such as Blum Tandem style slides. But it's really unusual to not have nice detailed specs available on-line.

Good luck and have fun.

-Steve

[Gene Howe]

If you are close to a Home Depot or Lowes, I'd price their full extension slides. IIRC, one of them carries Accuride, a good mid line slide.
And Caroll's advice is right on. 18" for a 20'' deep cabinet. Of course, you won't get the full benefit of the full extension feature unless you mount them 2" back from the drawer front. That could be a hassle when mounting to the case side, though.

[Brendan Plavis]

I hope you have extra blades... I hear MDF is a tool eater(well perhaps that sounds kinda wrong....)

I read an article not to long ago that addressed slide then fold out cabnets... you pull them out, then they fold down(kinda like when you pull your dresser draw out too far, except this doesnt fall on your foot) so that you can put large difficult to lift up that extra distance, tools.

[Walter Plummer]

Do not crowd too much. A typical stock cabinet is 24" with 22.5" inside. It will have 22" drawers with 22" glides. Glides come in 3/4 extension, (all but extinct) full extension, and 1" over travel. If your cabinet has 20" inside you should be able to use 20" glides but make the drawer say 19.5". The shorter you make the drawer the more over travel out of the cabinet you will have.

[Ray Newman]

I worked with MDF once or twice and like melamine, I don’t really like it.

MDF is not only hard on the tooling, it is hard on the lungs. Make sure your DC is up to snuff and it might be advisable to also wear some type of good particulate mask. Some find that it is also irritates their eyes. And MDF dust does and will get into everything. Speaking from experience.

I think you might be better served if you bought the cheapest or a cheaper grade of 3/4" plywood. Joinery will easier and mechanical fasteners and glue will hold better. MDF is not known for edge strength or holding fasteners well. Pilot holes for screws are a must, esp. on the edges as it has a tendency to split .

MDF is very heavy -- a full sheet of 3/4” MDF makes a sheet of 3/4” plywood seem light. Some lumber yards stock a lighter version of MDF. If you do use MDF, have the lumber yard break it down with their panel saw.

'Dunno nuttin' about the slides you in the link. Accuride full extension is my choice. You’ll never go wrong with full extension or over travel slides.

As for drawers, what is the desired/ planned width? A wide drawer will be heavy from its construction as well as from the load. If the drawers are going to be wide, I would re-think the use of MDF.

Addendum: MDF absorbs moisture. Keep if off the floor. If liquids might com in contact with the cabinet top, seal it well or fit a piece of Masonite for the top.

I found that 1/4" tempered Masonite with a good coat of paste wax offers protection, is easily cleaned-- glue will not stick to the wax, and is long-lasting. If damaged, Masonite is easily and economically replaced.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I'd recommend the KV8400. Imo, it's a smoother, better quality slide than Accuride. And most certainly better than the ones at Rockler, which probably come from China. I've used hundreds of pairs of accurides at the shop I work at, but use KV8400 for my personal projects.
http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/GroupID/Cabinet%20Drawer%20Slides/CatID/Drawer%20Slides%2C%20Full%20Extension%20Ball%20Bea ring/SubCatID/KV%208400%20Series%20100%23%20Class

20" is the length of the slide, although most may be about 1/8" shorter. Full extension means it travels the full 20". Typically, you build the drawers the same length as the slides. The exception to this rule is with the high priced hidden undermount slides.

And you probably want to go with an 18" slide.

[Robert Reece]

A few thoughts-
I would object to the use of MDF on cabinets, particularly on the premise that you are going to make mistakes. Use better material and move slower so you don't make mistakes. Draw everything in Google Sketchup and get feedback here before launching into cutting anything.

I use a finished two-sides Birch plywood at $57/sheet. MDF is a lot less expensive, but I hate working with the stuff. And I have a 5HP cyclone dust collector.

Next, settle on a drawer construction technique you like. With drawer slides, I have settled on butt jointing the four sides and screwing the sides together, then plugging the holes. Looks decent, fast, etc. No need for dovetails with modern drawer slides. In fact, my kitchen drawers, made 50 years ago are butt jointed and nailed and no drawer slides. They are solid as a rock (despite two generations worth of children hanging on them).

Also, consider your slides. I use Blum tandem with the soft close. I have a few drawers with accurides and they are not so good compared to the Blums. The blums are more rigid and just a pleasure to use. Also, and here is the real reason I use them, all the contents of the drawers with accurides reside in the back 2/3 of the drawer. However, with the blum soft close, nothing moves in the drawer. It's the right solution.

More expensive? Definitely. Worth it? I think so.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm with Robert. MDF sucks to work with and I avoid it as much as possible. It is heavy, the dust is thick and noxious, it is a weak material that barely supports its own weight and doesn't screw well. It splits and chips easily. Give me plywood any day, even shop grade c-4 stuff. Its a little bit more per sheet but so much more pleasant to work with. And if you are gearing up or practicing to make some cabinets you do care about, there is no substitute for learning your material like using similar to what you intend to build with. Thats my 2 cents plus a free dimes worth.


On the slides I'd make the cabs 21 inches and use the 20" slides. Unless there is some compelling structural reason in your space to keep them at 20". Heck, you could even go 20 1/2", just to give the needed clearance. Pick the hardware (slides and hinges) you want to use and build to their requirements within the context of your project. I would not use slides that don't have a spec sheet. I like to have physical possession of the slides I will be using if its the first time with a brand before building anything just to avoid any issues or misunderstandings of the instal sheet.

[glenn bradley]

I'm making some small, shop cabinets, in fact these will be the first cabinets I've ever made. I'm making them out of MDF, mostly because I don't care if they last a long time. I figure I'll end up making a bunch of mistakes since this is my first cabinet build so might as well as make them out of something I don't care about.

Sounds like you have your answer on the slides. As to the MDF and long life; I thought the same as you. This was my first project (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=82025&d=1203399334). It still gets used almost every day and just won't die.

[Stephen Saar]

Sounds like you have your answer on the slides. As to the MDF and long life; I thought the same as you. This was my first project (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=82025&d=1203399334). It still gets used almost every day and just won't die.


Man hope my cabinets come out looking that good. What type of joints did you use to join the MDF together?

[Tony Bilello]

I think that I am the only one that dont mind working with MDF. Aside from the major dust factor and heavy weight it is a pleasant change from hardwood.
It is very stable, cuts like butter, can be filled with Bondo and glues like nobody's business. I have cut acres of the stuff and never felt that it wears out blades any more than hardwood and probably a lot less. I think it is just an urban legend that is a throwback from the days of particle board - now that stuff is nasty to work with.
If on a budget and you have a bunch of shop cabinets to make, you might want to consider MDF. To me the biggest drawback is the ungodly weight.

[Robert Reece]

Peter really nailed my basic thought process. Always use the material you would use for the "real thing". The cost of MDF and Blum slides is pretty small compared to your time (if you value you time that is).

For example, I am trying to make a kitchen with insert drawers /doors and beaded frames. I made shop cabinet with the same details to see how it went. I learned a lot. It came out fairly good looking, but I am working on speeding it up.

If you do go with MDF, make sure you check out "confirmat" screws. They are the goods.

[Dennis Hook]

It looks like the slides your looking at are a Accuride knock-off, so they do mean they a smidge under 20" and are meant for a drawer that is made 20" long as others have said. Either go down a size in slides or up in cab interior depth.

I also prefer the tandem with blumotion, but they do cost a bit more, way more if you can't buy them wholesale. I have had issues with every guide known to man but they all have upsides and down sides which comes with any man made product. Use what fits your budget.

If you just trying to practise some you might consider using particle board as it is cheaper than MDF or at least from my supplier and the dust doesn't have the hang time that MDF will.

Enjoy your shoptime.

[scott vroom]

Stephen, like you I made some "practice" garage cabinets prior to jumping into my kitchen cab project. I used a medium grade 3/4" plywood for the boxes, and poplar for the face frames and doors...poplar is very easy to work with and was only a buck-something per bd/ft. By the way, I bought my American Made 3/4 plywood from my hardwood supplier and not the big box stores (their stuff is cheap asian import and will turn into a potato chip quick).

Good luck with your project!

[Sean Nagle]

Like Tony, I enjoy using MDF. Of course it has to be the right application. As far as cabinets, I'd recommend using melamine instead of MDF. It should be about the same cost and you won't have to do any finishing. You didn't mention whether you're using face frames. With either melamine or MDF, I suggest you use them for some rigidity.

I think most people who dislike MDF have not used high quality MDF. My suppliers carry an MDF that has a good density and the surface is actually very hard and smooth. It's nothing like Borg MDF which is crap.

[Michael Flores]

Call some local cabinet suppliers in your area because they carry Ultra lite MDF. Big difference in the weight.

[Kevin Groenke]

Why not just plain old particle board for the shop cabinets? It has the stability of MDF but it's less expensive, significantly lighter AND you can screw into the edge without it splitting. You can just bullnose the edges, if you're painting, you can fill with joint compound and sand for a quick, simple smooth edge. Melamine is OK, but are you going to iron-on that cheesy edgeband for shop cabinets? If you're going to have exposed PB edges, it might as well all be raw.

I second the 20.5" cabinet depth with 20" drawers and slides, though I would be looking at sheet yields to see how that comes out. Rockler is probably the most expensive place to buy slides, you can get comparable imported slides for 1/2 their price from GlideRite, WWHardware or Ebay, or KV's or Accurides for slightly less than Rocklers' overpriced imports.

I would NOT use MDF or PB for drawer boxes. 1/2" Baltic Birch for me.

-kg

[glenn bradley]

Man hope my cabinets come out looking that good. What type of joints did you use to join the MDF together?

I feel like a thread-jacker but, its your thread so here goes . . .

I like to use any shop fixtures as a learning experience. Don't go for quick and dirty; take your time and experiment with joinery. One thing I learned on this unit was that I liked the 'drawer lock' joint for drawers. I only used it in a couple places but, I liked the result better than pocket-holed (2nd choice) or others. Now I use drawer locks for all my untility-type drawer builds and they are quick and strong. Try out ideas. Do some things just because you want to try them and not just to get the job done ASAP. Have fun and practice your technique along the way.

I used glued rabbets at the corners and dados for the dividers. As this was to be a worktable that would roll around an eneven garage floor, some adjustments were made.

- I reinfored the joints with screws along the length of the joint. I read about a method for using screws in MDF without splitting and following it have never had an issue. My non-moving MDF cabinets since do not use screws.

- I made the bottom out of 3/4" plywood and used larger casters than on my other tools. The back is also ply but, just because that's what I had :). I think it was some material that was left up in the garage rafters when I bought the house :D

- I made the gap around the drawers a rather generous 1/8" to allow for the racking that occurs when the heavy cabinet is positioned at different angles on the uneven floor.

HTH

[Russell Sansom]

Just my quick 2 cents on drawer slides: I got a CraigsList bargain on some BluMotion 21" slides. I used them on some conventional dovetailed drawers in my sharpening bench. I found that no matter how hard I studied the ( comprehensive and good quality ) Blum documentation, I never really understood what was happening until I installed one. After that, the rest were easy.

[Michael MacDonald]

I'm doing the same thing now... built the boxes over the last few weeks and put face frame on... now working on drawers.

I just got 16" slides this week at both HD and Lowes. Lowes' are slightly better for the same price, so I am taking the HD slides back. They have the same dimensions and look, but Lowes' is a bit thicker material.

The 16" was only $5.40 a pair, if I remember correctly.

For the drawers, it will all be ply... 3/4 front and sides. 1/2 back. 1/4 bottom.

The cabinet is all 3/4 ply with a 3/4 melamine/partical board top.

I have the drawers recessed so I can put a door on them and keep dust out... they will sit behind the table saw and act as a rest for ripping... with casters it should be the perfect height.