Planing Pressure Treated Wood

[Steve Friedman]

Hi,

First, thanks to everyone for their advise and wisdom on plane purchasing. After some painful deliberation, I finally decided to get a Lie-Nielsen #8. My mouth dropped when I unwrapped the plane. It is amazing, but almost too pretty to use.

So, the question is whether there is any harm in using that plane to flatten some pressure treated pine? I am not asking metaphysically - I know that there is something deeply disturbing about the thought of it, but I just didn't know if there was anything in the PT chemicals that could cause actual physical damage to the plane.

Thanks.

Steve

[David Weaver]

Probably no problem if you just wipe it when you're done. I'd be more worried about it being wet than chemically reactive with the plane.

It's also supposedly not good for you - especially if it's not new wood, at least the wood treated with arsenic isn't. I'd be more worried about that, but I don't know anything about the precautions with the non-arsenic wood.

[Tri Hoang]

If you don't mind the chemical & the clean up afterward then go for it. I'd NOT have my planes near any PT lumber if I could help it...especially a LN #8.

[Don C Peterson]

It sounds a bit heretical but I've done this many times. There is no point (IMO) with trying to keep a tool in "like new" condition...I mean they are tools that get used and some wear and discoloration is invertible.

The only real problem I've had is that PT lumber tends to be very wet unless you let it sit for a LONG time, so I've been careful to wipe the planes down after use. Absolutely no ill effects...

[Callan Campbell]

Do not leave any shavings or pieces of that pressure treated wood in contact with the plane after using it. From what I'm hearing,the newest stuff is not very friendly to iron or steel, it corrodes it. I can see a tiny shaving getting wedged somewhere in the frog or under the cap iron, causing a bit of rust or heartache if it sits there for a few months. So, clean the tool once you're done. Stainless steel fasteners are now highly recommended for working with some the pressure treated wood. I think there are different levels of treated wood out there, as well as old stock that had different worries associated with it.
Someone else who works with ,or sells the newest treated lumber could add more info than me. I've just reading some interesting articles about this stuff over the past few years, but only used stainless steel screws for anything I've built with it recently to avoid any issues. Haven't actually put some regular steel nails or screws outdoors inside the new stuff to see how accurate the claims are. Maybe that's a cheap, fun project for this summer as a test:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

[James Scheffler]

Do not leave any shavings or pieces of that pressure treated wood in contact with the plane after using it. From what I'm hearing,the newest stuff is not very friendly to iron or steel, it corrodes it. I can see a tiny shaving getting wedged somewhere in the frog or under the cap iron, causing a bit of rust or heartache if it sits there for a few months. So, clean the tool once you're done.

+1. I've used the arsenic-free ACQ pressure treated lumber, and it is fairly corrosive. I've had both coated and galvanized hardware showing rust after a few years (I used it to build a play fort for my kids a few years ago and at that time it was so new I had to call a zillion lumber yards to find someone who had it).

I used my Stanley 151 spokeshave to round over some corners with no problems. However, I cleaned everything really well afterward and I would advise the same if you decide to plane it.

There's another kind of arsenic-free called CBA (?) that I have no experience with. The arsenic stuff is called CCA, copper chromated arsenate. I understand it's still available, but limited.

Jim

[Steve Friedman]

Thanks for all the advice. I am trying to flatten one face of around 20' worth of 2x4s. My instinct is to try it, with a thorough cleaning before starting the glue up.

I could just use 4x4s, but then I don't get to play with the new toy. Also, I'd have to figure out how to get 4x4s home in my car.

Steve

[Chris Hudson42]

Hi Steve,

Just to second what others have said about PT corrosiveness. Remember good construction technique with PT always calls for galvanized nails because of corrosiveness.

If it were my #8, I would be sure to completely take apart the plane afterward, not only the iron and chipbreaker, but remove the frog so as to clean the frog-sole milled areas, adjustment screws, etc. I would probably even remove the tote and knob. Completely disassemble - and recoat everything with Camilla oil (or?) as you put it back together.

Curious as to what the PT 4x4 glue-up is for? For example, while some might use PT for the frame of a picnic table, I do not. Instead, here in FL the box stores always have nice dimensional Southern Yellow Pine. I will buy the widest and longest - usually 12' or even 16' x 12" (11 1/2" net) x 2" (1 1/2"? net) - as it is the clearest/least knots. Then cut it down. Where the SYP hits the ground, coat with something like System 3 Silvertip laminating epoxy.

While the SYP is also a bit wet, it is nowhere near as wet as PT. And SYP is resinous anyway - so while it is not the best of outdoor woods or the best in rot resistance, its not bad, either. And its far clearer than any PT. (Here in FL, usually the worst SYP is made into PT).

In short, I avoid PT whever I can think of another choice or way to do it. Yes, I did use PT 2 x 6 for the frame and floor joists of my shed/woodshop, and 3/4" PT ply (terrible quality stuff) for the subfloor - but that is it - nothing else.

Good Luck!

P.S.. - if its going for blind construction, maybe not plane it at all? Simply glue up with something like 'PL Ultra' urethane-based construction adhesive (the stuff is really strong - I've always seen the wood shear first when I've had to take it apart) - and treated deck screws and screw them together.

[Steve Friedman]

Hi Steve,

Curious as to what the PT 4x4 glue-up is for?

Thanks,

Legs for an outdoor workbench. After all the responses, my instinct is to keep the PT as far away from my $500 plane as possible. Also, I was reminded of the difficulty in gluing wet PT lumber. I'm in NJ, so SYP isn't easy to find.

I will probably use PT 4x4s and bring a handsaw to cut them down in the parking lot (to be able to get them in my car). The alternative is douglas fir and treat it myself, but it'll be just as ugly as PT pine!

[Jon van der Linden]

Why would you even use this? It's not good for you or your yard, and it looks kinda crappy. When you're finally done with it, you will probably have to dispose of it as a hazardous waste. I wouldn't even use that stuff for a fence post (proper drainage and installation make posts last just fine).

Since you're making an outdoor workbench, as long as you site the bench so it doesn't sit in standing water it should be fine. Locate it on some pea gravel or raised pads (bricks, stones, whatever). I'm assuming you're not placing it in a sheltered area because you're thinking about treated wood in the first place.

I know this wasn't what you were asking, but it really does need saying.

[Steve Friedman]

Why would you even use this? It's not good for you or your yard, and it looks kinda crappy. When you're finally done with it, you will probably have to dispose of it as a hazardous waste. I wouldn't even use that stuff for a fence post (proper drainage and installation make posts last just fine).

Since you're making an outdoor workbench, as long as you site the bench so it doesn't sit in standing water it should be fine. Locate it on some pea gravel or raised pads (bricks, stones, whatever). I'm assuming you're not placing it in a sheltered area because you're thinking about treated wood in the first place.

I know this wasn't what you were asking, but it really does need saying.

Jon, that's OK. I was going to sit it on gravel anyway, but would love to avoid PT lumber. I just didn't think anything else would survive outdoors all year in NJ without 7 coats of spar varnish. Cedar is too light and IPE is too expensive. Maybe White Oak?

Steve

[Callan Campbell]

Jon, that's OK. I was going to sit it on gravel anyway, but would love to avoid PT lumber. I just didn't think anything else would survive outdoors all year in NJ without 7 coats of spar varnish. Cedar is too light and IPE is too expensive. Maybe White Oak?

Steve
Yes, White Oak is actually a good wood for outdoors, the cell structure is very different from Red Oak. You'd have strong legs or a bench, that's for sure. Are you sure 4x4 Cedar Posts won't do it for you. You mentioned getting them home, Home Depot rents their trucks for very little money for the first 75 minutes. This woulod save you from worrying about the hassle of fitting a 4x4 post into your car. You could put a shelf or some stretchers at the bottom of the workbench, tie the legs together, and have a support system to allow some kind of weights to be put on the lower section of the bench to make it stay in place for you, like sandbags or that gravel you're putting under the bench legs.

[Steve Friedman]

Are you sure 4x4 Cedar Posts won't do it for you. You mentioned getting them home, Home Depot rents their trucks for very little money for the first 75 minutes. This would save you from worrying about the hassle of fitting a 4x4 post into your car. You could put a shelf or some stretchers at the bottom of the workbench, tie the legs together, and have a support system to allow some kind of weights to be put on the lower section of the bench to make it stay in place for you, like sandbags or that gravel you're putting under the bench legs.

Thanks. I forgot about the truck rental. Actually, my son has a pickup and lives around 20 minutes away, but it's fishing season, so I won't be able to get his attention until the river freezes.

I never thought about weighting the frame - interesting idea! Actually, I could even make the stretchers out of cedar 4x4s to add weight and, if that's not enough, maybe even a second set of stretchers. I could add a shelf, but am not too sure about adding an extra horizontal surface outdoors - just more place for tree "garbage" to collect and another place for the squirrels and other rodents to make their nests.

Steve

[David Keller NC]

Steve - One other thought - cypress. Cypress is much, much more likely to be available in completely clear 8/4 sizes (which can be glued up with epoxy or tite-bond III to form 4X4s for legs). Most cedar that we have around here (NC) has plenty of knots that substantially weaken it. Though cypress isn't anywhere near as strong as white oak, it's far cheaper (at least in NC) and is very strong on a pound for pound basis.

[Jon van der Linden]

Since this is an outdoor bench, I would be more concerned with the way the parts are fastened than with the type of wood. The wood will go through more movement than it would indoors and connections will loosen. Easy to access bolts would be my choice of fastener (plus steps to avoid rust). That will keep the bench solid.

[Dan Andrews]

If I had a $500. plane (which I do not), I would also purchase a good used Stanley for use on other than clean new lumber. I plane used lumber quite often, and sometimes lumber that has gotten a little dirty. I know that I can't get every bit of grit out of the grain. I use my Craftsman or Mohawk planes for the "dirty work" and reserve my good Stanleys and Millers Falls for the "clean" stuff.

Yes, new PT is very corrosive. Double dip galvanized hardware is required with it.

[Don C Peterson]

This is kind of funny to me... a plane, whether it's a $50 Stanley or $500 LN is a tool that's meant to be used, it's not a museum piece that I feel obliged to keep in mint condition.

Sure the PT wood is corrosive, but we're talking over a period of months and years. I use my LN planes when I need something planed, and I don't much care what kind of wood it is. I also take care of my planes by cleaning them and treating them regularly with T-9 and/or beeswax.

No, my planes don't look new because I USE them, but they function as well as they ever did because I take care of them.