Cherry Kitchen Cabinets

[Rod DePenning]

First post. I've been lurking and learning for a while. For those of you that live in central Iowa, I thought the attached auction notice might be of interest. I can't vouch for either the equipment or the owner, so it is what it is.
While I've been learning, I also built kitchen cabinets for myself. I intentionally used #2 cherry because I like the interesting defects.

[Brent Ring]

Welcome, and nice cabinets and work!

[John Pratt]

Dont take everything when you go to the auction. I will be sending my dad in my place to look at a few things. They are in Marshalltown while I sit here in Oklahoma.

[jim sauterer]

rod i really like those cabinets nice job.number 2 cherry has some nice character.

[Carroll Courtney]

Welcome Rob to the Creek,defects??? Heck,you took #2 cherry and turned it into musical instrument grade wood.Fantastic---Carroll

[Sam Layton]

Hi Rod,

Welcome to the creek. Your cabinets look great. What type of finish did you use?

Sam

[Rod DePenning]

Thanks all, for the compliments on the cabinets.
Sam - with re: to the finish, I brushed General Arm-R-Seal, two coats gloss then two coats satin.

[Sam Layton]

Rod, thanks for the response. I am in the process of building my kitchen now. I am using riff sawn red oak. I really like the way your #2 cherry turned out. It looks outstanding. I am also using General Arm-R-Seal. I did not try brushing. I am wiping it on. I don't like the wiping process. I am going to try brushing. Did you lay everything flat to brush?

Thanks again, Sam

[Roy Wall]

Rod -

Beautiful cabinets - excellent work and the cherry is terrific. Heck - the whole kitchen is a knockout!

Sam -

I've use Arm-R-Seal too and for the final finish: take some of their "Orange Oil" with 600 grit sandpaper and wet sand......smooth as silk and smells good also!

[Rod DePenning]

Roy - A big thanks.

Sam - Yes, I laid it flat, at least everything I could. This obviously took a while because I waited until the next day to flip the pieces to do the other side. I used a foam brush and laid down a medium thick coat. Mine flattened nicely but didn't start looking good until the third or fourth coat. I scuff sanded between coats w/ 220 between coats 1 & 2, then 320 after that. Where I had to do vertical surfaces, I felt like I needed to use a lighter coat to avoid the sags and runs.

[scott vroom]

Rob, wow....just outstanding! What did you build the boxes with? How about shelving?

Thanks-

[Rod DePenning]

Scott - Except for the ends that show, the boxes are 3/4 maple veneer ply, basically using Marc Sommerfeld's T&G method of cabinet construction. I used maple because it was on sale. Otherwise I would have used birch veneer. The shelves are the same 3/4 maple ply with a cherry edge band on the edge that shows. I don't have detailed photos of the construction, but I attached a few pics of nearly finished mock-ups. I hope that answers your question.

[Sam Layton]

Roy, thanks for the tip on the Orange oil.

Rod, thanks for the information. I used it on vertical surfaces and had to use a rag and put really thin coats. It takes a lot of coats that way. I almost have my upper cabinets finished. I will try the foam brush, and lay them flat.

Thanks again, Sam

[Sam Layton]

Rod, the additional photo's look great. I am also using Marc's T&G system. It really makes a strong cabinet. What type of drawer slides did you use, and where did you get them?

Sam

[Edis Hasanbasic]

Rod,
I live in Des Moines. Thanks for posting the auction. I may be there. Not that I need anymore tools, but has that really stopped any of us from buying more :)
Nice work on the kitchen. Where do you buy wood? I don't like whats at Menards, but the stuff at the woodsmith store seems expensive. Thanks!

[Steven J Corpstein]

I think your #2 Cherry looks #1 on your cabinets. Nice looking workmanship.

[Randy Gazda]

Great looking cabinets, I can buy #1 cherry in Montana for about $3.20 bd ft, however, it has a lot of sapwood. Just curious what you pay for #2, and what is your source, I get back to Iowa once in a while.

[Rod DePenning]

Sam - I used the Blum 21" Tandem full extension slide. Sommerfeld has a decent price if you buy 6 or more. Another place (which I used) is A&H Turf Specialties at http://www.ahturf.com/ . I know it sounds strange that a turf place sells hardware, but they do indeed. You have to pay attention with A&H Turf because they don't always package everything together. You have to order some things as separate items. The slides, for example, require you to order the locking devices separately. I'd suggest getting the part numbers from the Blum catalog because the A&H Turf website is not the most sophisticated.

Randy & Edis - I got my #2 cherry and poplar (drawer boxes) from Logs to Lumber in Marshalltown, Iowa. They have a website and price list at iowalogstolumber.com. I like them because of their good service for me. I paid $1.75/bf for the cherry. Obviously there's waste with #2 cherry, so that needs to be taken into account. I got the 3/4 ply from Menards - their so called premium thick face veneer. It's been OK for me

[Sam Layton]

Rod, thanks for the information. I will check out A&E.

Sam

[scott vroom]

Sam/Rod, I read somewhere (on Amazon I think) a criticism that Marc's methods require that you purchase proprietary tools from his company. Did you find this to be true with his cabinetmaking DVD?

Thank you

[scott vroom]

Rod, what did you do on your wall cabinets where the end is exposed? I was considering making the exposed end a raised panel identical to a door, but others have warned me that racking (sagging over time) might be an issue.

Thanks

[Rod DePenning]

Scott,
I wouldn't say that Sommerfeld's method requires you to use his router bit set but if you don't have a T&G set and a flush trim bit, then you might want to buy his. His method involves cutting what I'll call an offset tongue. See my attached sketch. He does this so that you can provide for a flush joint or a joint with a 1/4" reveal. If the joint is going show, you might want to use the flush fit. If you want some material for scribing to fit, you might want to use the reveal. So if your bit can cut the offset tongue, you don't need his. The flush trim bit I mentioned is used for cutting off a portion of the tongue, which is required in some cases. Again, if you have one you don't need another. I expect this doesn't make much sense without seeing his dvd. I know it didn't to me until I saw the dvd and thought through the details. I've also attached a couple of working sketches I used. They probably won't make any sense either, but they might help.

With regards to your other question, I used the same 5 piece construction for the exposed end panels as I used for the doors. The only difference is that I used 5" wide rails and 3" stiles, both for looks and more glue surface. I have to say that I didn't worry about racking.

[scott vroom]

Thanks Rod. For your 5 piece end panel construction did you glue or float the raised panel? Seems that gluing it would make sense, to allay any concern about racking; wood movement on an end panel isn't as critical as on a door since the end panel outer edges are secured to the top/back/bottom box pieces, and to the face frame.

Also, what bit did you use for the raised panel? It's a very attractive variation of the Shaker style my wife admires. I showed her your pics and she asked if I could do something similar.

Many thanks for taking the time to respond. Your notes/drawings were very helpful as well.

[Rod DePenning]

Scott,
I floated the panel, but I think you are probably right with regards to gluing without any problems. I was concerned with shrinkage of the panel which might result in cracks/splits in the panel if it was restrained by gluing. Who knows?

Router bits:
MLCS Katana #18837 for the rail & stile set. Provides a shaker style bevel.

Lee Valley # 16J6651 for the raised panel. I used 3/4" thick panels and made a cut on both sides, centering the 'tongue' so that both the front and back is flush with the rails/stiles. I over sized the panels by about 1/2" and then cut approximately 1/8" off the tongue after routing the edges. It sounds like extra work, and it was, but I thought it looked better with less of a space between the rails/stiles and the panel.

[Todd Hoppe]

How did you flush mount the sink in formica? The cabinets look GREAT!

[Rod DePenning]

Todd,
Thanks for the compliment on the cabinets. The sink is a relatively new design. I did not do the counter top and the sink was installed by a local custom counter top shop. It's not cheap. You can see the details at www.edgesinks.com

[scott vroom]

Rod, thanks for the router bit info....that's exactly the look the wife is looking for.

What did you do for the toe kick? Did you build with plywood or did you use solid cherry?

Thank you

[Von Bickley]

Rod,

Great looking wood and GREAT looking cabinets.......

Welcome to "The Creek"..........

[Rich Johnson]

Rod really nice job. I really like the shaker style of the cabinets. Can you elaborate on which router bits you used to make the pannels? Most of the shaker sets I have seen I dont care for the low angle. The higher angle on your pannels look more traditional to me.

[Rod DePenning]

Thanks, Rich.
Router bits:
MLCS Katana #18837 for the rail & stile set. Provides a shaker style bevel.

Lee Valley # 16J6651 for the raised panel. I used 3/4" thick panels and made a cut on both sides, centering the 'tongue' so that both the front and back is flush with the rails/stiles. I over sized the panels by about 1/2" and then cut approximately 1/8" off the tongue after routing the edges. It sounds like extra work, and it was, but I thought it looked better with less of a space between the rails/stiles and the panel.

[Shawn Christ]

Rod, those are some great looking cabinets -- thanks for posting. I've been thinking about making similar cabinets for my kitchen, but have been hesitant about the time and expense. I'm curious how long this took you and, although you don't need to share, what the total cost was. You found a great price on cherry - and it's not too far away from me!

I've used Menards thick-face plywood. The stuff really seems to be of good quality, and if you get it on sale, it is very reasonable.

[Aaron Berk]

Now that's an excellent job.

My wife was walking past and lurking over my shoulder, she comment "now THATS what I like"

We've had a kitchen remodel on our minds for awhile, thanks for sharing the pics.

[C Scott McDonald]

Those are great looking cabinets. What width of the rails and stiles did you use? What is the width of the face frame? The proportions work really well. The color is great too!

Nice work.

Scott

[Rod DePenning]

You may not have noticed - there are a couple of branches of posts in this thread. I haven't figured out how they're organized. There are a few more photos that you may not have seen.
I built 17 ft of uppers and 12 feet of base cabinets and I've got around $1500 in material which includes all the hardware. The counter top, plumbing and electrical, of course, is not included in that price. This was my first kitchen cabinet job, so considerable time was spent talking to myself. Regardless, it took me around 6 months, start to finish.
The face frames are 2" except for the member next to the ceiling. I made that 3" to allow room for a molding. The door rails and stiles are 2". The finished end panels have 3" stiles and 5" rails. I don't know why. It simply looked good on paper.
Thanks for the compliments.