Stanley 750 Chisel

[Ryan Smith]

I recently purchased a new mint condition 1" Stanley 750 bench chisel on ebay. I have lapped the back to a mirror and worked the bevel to a nice edge. All of this after many (too many) hours of correcting a very uneven back and an edge that was at least 1/16" out of square out of the box. My plan was to build up a set of the 750's but I am second guessing this idea if each chisel is going to be such a pain in the _ _ _ to hone. Does anyone have good info on whether this is normal or out of the ordinary for a new or near new Stanley 750 chisel?

[David Weaver]

I recently purchased a new mint condition 1" Stanley 750 bench chisel on ebay. I have lapped the back to a mirror and worked the bevel to a nice edge. All of this after many (too many) hours of correcting a very uneven back and an edge that was at least 1/16" out of square out of the box. My plan was to build up a set of the 750's but I am second guessing this idea if each chisel is going to be such a pain in the _ _ _ to hone. Does anyone have good info on whether this is normal or out of the ordinary for a new or near new Stanley 750 chisel?

What was out of square, the bevel? Older NOS chisels usually aren't too much work to prepare.

Older chisels that have been sharpened into having a big belly can be a bear to prepare if you don't have the right tools to remove metal quickly but accurately (i.e., if you try to remove the belly on a sharpening stone the same as you would lap the back on a new chisel, you'll be in for a task that probably never should've been attempted).

I would reserve putting together a matched set of older chisels for collectors. There are scads of old chisels out there that are just as good as stanley 750 chisels, and you'll find that in attempting to put together a set these days that you'll find a million 1/2, 3/4 and 1" chisels and work very hard to find the narrow and very wide sizes, and pay dearly for them.

Watch ebay for a full set of 750s and see what they go for, and expect to pay nearly as much if you try to put them together one at a time, especially if you want to add a 1/8" chisel.

[Jim Koepke]

I had a 1" Stanley 750 and sold it. I like my Buck Brothers 1" more.

I think collectors are more interested in the Stanley brand for some reason.

jim

[David Wong]

I also recently acquired a few near mint Stanley 750 chisels. Judging from the machining scratch marks on the back of the blade (parallel to the cutting edge), it looks like some of them had never been sharpened. I have not had a chance to hone the blades yet, but I checked their backs on a 3-2-1 block. All but the 2" chisel laid flat on the block with no rocking. The 2" chisel was flat on the first half of the blade, but not across the full length. Some of the chisels look to have a very slight hollow on the back. Checking the cutting edges for squareness against a starrett 6" double square, I found almost all the chisels to be a little skewed. Nothing like 1/16", but all need some correction.

I have a set of japanese bench chisels that I am happy with, but wanted to try the Stanley's because of all the rave reviews I have read. Not wanting to hijack the thread, but are you doing anything to recondition the leather ends? I am wondering if I should oil them to get them softer. Right now they are hard and dry. I guess I will also have to get a wooden mallet to use instead of the steel hammer I use with the japanese chisels.

[Ryan Smith]

I would say that the chisel was brand new, never sharpend from the swirls on the steel and the protective coating applied. The chisels edge was not square to the length of the chisel when I received it. Does anyone own these chisels that can verify that this is not standard?

[David Weaver]

It's probably not that out of the ordinary since they assume you're going to grind and hone the chisel to sharpen it when you get it, but I haven't seen anything like that.

In general, the time-consuming issue with a chisel is the back (be it bellied or pitted) and not the bevel. If you don't already have a dry or wet grinder, or a belt sander a tool you'll probably want to get. A cheap dry grinder or a cheap benchtop belt sander will help you square the bevel on a chisel very quickly.

[Tony Shea]

What is meant when you say the back is bellied? I picked up a couple stanley chisels (720's and Everlasts). That backs might have this belly that is refered to. If I set the chisel down with the back of the chisel on the bench the blade actually lays flat for the first 1 1/2". If I hold a straight edge to the back it will rock at this 1 1/2" back. It's almost like an offset paring chisel design except the bent part is in the middle of the blade instead of the neck. Is this normal for these chisels or is this something someone has done to them while using. I seems like all my older chisels have this feature including an old 3/4" buck brothers. I'll try and get a pic of what I mean as it is hard to explain.

[David Weaver]

In some of my older chisels, like witherbies, there seems to be some belly (like they were made that way). Stanley chisels, maybe some but not as much - actually, all of the ones I have are close to flat - 720 or 750, maybe 6 of them.

Others are dead flat, like buck brothers chisels, rockford forge, one of the greenlees. Every old buck brother's chisel that I've gotten that says "buck brothers cast steel" is dead flat and has a nice grind.

They don't need to be dead flat all the way up the back to work well, they just need to be flat enough near the business end that you can sharpen them and have an area near the end that you can reference against something.

If you get one that's been bellied from poor sharpening habits, you'll find that you can't get a polish close to the edge, that you're only honing and polishing further up from there.

[Sean Hughto]

Maybe you bought one that was too "new"? I know the planes got progressively worse from about the 1950's onward. Maybe later 750s had problems too? Just speculation.

My first set of decent chisels were 750s that I got for a few bucks here and there that were usually pretty beat. The leather was ofter missing or tattered, so I modified the handles, and then just cleaned and sharpened them. They have served me well. None were too difficult to flatten on my stones, though it could take up to a half hour of work on some of the more stubborm and wide ones where there was a good deal of material to remove.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3273/2743321060_300f4b2f46.jpg

[Tony Shea]

Wow Derek, that's a fine set of chisels you got there for only a few bucks. Do all those chisels have a slight curve along their backs but for the first inch or two have flat spot large enough to get a good edge and reference off of? Just curious if this was a design of Stanley's as all the old Stanleys I have are this way. Plenty flat space for a reference edge but along the whole back to the socket is not completely flat. I actually like the feel of them like this as I don't need to flatten the entire backs and it feels right while paring.

[lowell holmes]

I have several 750's and I favor them. I also have LN chisels. I like the 750's as well as the LN chisels.

[Sean Hughto]

I'm not sure who Derek is, but if you were talking to me, each chisel was between $2.50 and $15, with the exception of the 1", which was new old stock and I paid $30 for. They were typically paint splattered, laquer-chipped, dirty, dinged-up messes when I got 'em. It was fun to clean them up.

The backs were like any other old chisels I have be they Witherby, Swan, Buck, or what have you. I like my Swans better, and not just because the logo is pretty -- slightly nicer steel.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3331/3633826847_5c50811a34.jpg

[Tony Shea]

Lol...sorry bout that Sean, I was just talking to my roomate Derek as I was writing the reply. So your Swans, who actually makes them? It isn't the same as James Swan is it? I've not ever seen those chisels with the swan picture stamped in the chisel. They are def pretty!

[Sean Hughto]

Same as James Swan. Just a stamp that was on a certain vintage I believe.

[David Keller NC]

I would say that the chisel was brand new, never sharpend from the swirls on the steel and the protective coating applied. The chisels edge was not square to the length of the chisel when I received it. Does anyone own these chisels that can verify that this is not standard?

Ryan - A bevel (edge) that isn't square to the length of the chisel is par for the course with just about any antique (used) chisel, and many of the newer, cheaper brands. Generally speaking, you're pretty much going to have to get an inexpensive grinder if you intend to do much re-habbing of older tools, as it will take what will seem like centuries to perform the kind of shaping on a honing stone or sandpaper-on-glass that would typically be done on a grinder.

But having a grinder is also extremely useful and an enormous time-saver even if you're working with new tools - the hollow grind/hone method of sharpening is perhaps the most efficient method of maintaining a sharp edge that I know of.

[Bob Smalser]

Beware the old but high-end chisel with a warped back. It may have been burned on somebody's grinder who then tried retempering it.

Personally, I don't have any chisel sets matched by brand....it was hard enough to get all the sizes and match the style, thickness and length. If cosmetics are a concern then new handles and a little Oxphoblue can cure most of that. Here's a nice, made-up set of 11 firmer gouges with only two or three that match by brand (Buck and Greenlee).

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/123548877.jpg

While collector favorites change subject to whim, this old list of high-end chisels still applies. While I have several Stanleys, I can't get excited about them. I still consider old Greenlee, PS&W and Buck the best values, and Swan, Witherby, Gillespie and New Haven Edge government contracts the best chisels. If you have the bucks, tho....modern Barr's are a little short for my taste but as good as any chisel ever made.


Anything marked "Stanley", "Witherby", "Winchester", "Chas Buck" or "L&IJ White" is generally going to a collector for too high a price unless they are part of large, handleless lots, along with some Swan's. Older (not newer) Greenlee and Buck Bros, New Haven Edge Tool, Ohio Tool, DR Barton, Underhill, Union Hardware, Jennings, GI Mix, Shapleigh Hardware, Eric Anton Berg, Dickerson, Gillespie, Dixon, PS&W or PEXTO, Robt Duke, Fulton, Merrill, Butcher, Stiletto, Hibbard OVB, Simmons Keen Kutter, Lakeside and several other old makers and hardware store brands are every bit as good as the collector prizes and are much less expensive. Most unmarked chisels of that era were usually made by one of the above makers for a hardware distributor and are also generally excellent.

The only really poor socket chisels I've observed are newer Craftsman (older socket Craftsman were often made by Greenlee) of chrome-vanadium steel, some "Eclipse" brand and the occasional Stanley Defiance that refuse to take an excellent edge.

Top-Tier:

Witherby
Swan
Gillespie
New Haven Edge gov't contracts marked "USA" or "USN"

Hard to Call between First and Second....but always most excellent:

DR Barton
PS&W or PEXTO
Greenlee thin paring chisels
Buck gouges


Second-Tier:

Stanley
Stilletto
New Haven Edge
White
Older Buck (older chisels will have sockets, which went out around the time drop forging did)
Older Greenlee
Older Craftsman made by Greenlee
Winchester
Ohio Tool
Wye
Chas Buck
Douglas (precurser company to Swan)
GI Mix
Eric Anton Berg
Underhill
Jennings
Sargent
KeenKutter
Hibbard OBV
Dixon
Robt Duke
Fulton
Merrill
Butcher
Lakeside
Union Hardware
Dickerson
Shapleigh Hardware (Diamond Edge brand)

Third-Tier (Don't buy)

Stanley Defiance
Eclipse
Newer Greenlee, Buck or Stanley socket chisels made in the 1960's and later.
Any chisel with a vanadium finish like used on mechanics tools.

Al the hardware store brands were made by a larger chisel manufacturer. Greenlee seems to have made a lot of them. One store bought from Witherby....Shapleigh?...but I don't remember which one. Shapleigh usually bought Sargent planes as house brands, and any chisel marked Winsted, Conn was made by Witherby.