Dust Collection..... I'm Sorry

[Brad Hammond]

gals and guys,
i'm sorry to hit another dc post, but i'm about to take the plunge with the grizzly 2hp and i've been searching the posts for run materials.

ok. here's the questions quick and simple.

what's s&d pvc? can i use s&d pvc? i thought pvc would build static.
lastly, for those who've used metal. what kind did you use? i've read that the hvac stuff would collapse.

thanx ya'll

brad

[Scott Parks]

S&D stands for "sewer and drain". Use 6" pipe. The S&D fittings have rubber gaskets on them. Static is annoying getting zapped, but you can use metal tape, copper wires, or anything metel connected down the length of your pvc and grounded to reduce the "zap". Check out the Bill Pentz website to keep you busy reading for days on the DC subject.

[Bart Leetch]

If you haven't purchased your DC yet you may want to spend the extra & get the G0548. I have the older G1029 & just converted to the Filter system that is on the G0548 what a difference it made. The older G1029 like mine had a 5" inlet behind the Y. I talked to Bill Crofutt at Grizzly & found out that I can change the inlet to the newer 6" & it will do just fine. I plan to do this in the future.

[Dale Thompson]

Brad,
I'm not sure what S&D PVC is but I can assure you that the use of PVC in your collection system will not generate enough static electricity to "blow up your shop". I've heard of folks who line both the inside and outside of their PVC with "grounding" wires. I'm sorry but that is a waste of time and money. It does absolutely nothing in terms of reducing "static" buildup. Dust explosions are rare and VERY difficult to create, even if you try. PVC is your best bet from both the standpoint of price and pressure drop. Use as little of that "flexible" hose as possible. It has anywhere from four to twenty times as much pressure drop as does plain PVC. One thing that you don't want in a DC system is pressure drop. It is more acceptable with a shop vac connection but that is another story. It's basic hydraulics but unnecessary for this application. Also, DON'T reduce the pipe size at your collection point any more than is absolutely necessary. For example, going from a 4" pipe to a 2 1/2" pipe will give you almost no collection efficiency.

Brad, I hope that this helps and I also hope that I don't get more death threats than normal!! ;) :D :)

Dale T.

[Brad Hammond]

thanx alot guys!
interesting info about the pvc dale. i'll keep that in mind

looking at the 0548 right now bart.

thanx all

[Jim Becker]

For metal, 26 guage or heavier is necessary. Laterals (wyes) need to be purchased from a dust collection specialist, such as Oneida Air Systems or Air Handling Systems...HVAC wyes are crimped "backwards" for the flow direction. Metal has the advantage of more choice in sizes and fittings but is generally more expensive; S&D PVC has the advantage in cost, but is limited in flexibility as it only comes in 4" and 6" relative to the sizes common for our dust collection systems.

[Bryan Nuss]

Using the 6" PVC S&D is the way to go, in my opinion. It is relatively inexpensive and the fittings a relatively inexpensive and readily available (Tee's, Y's, 45's, 90's, 22-1/2's, etc.). I just removed the rubbergaskets to allow an easier slip fit and then caulked the joints with a silicone type caulking so that if you ever have to disassemble the ducting to relocate a pickup point, you don't have to saw up and scrap a glued joint.

I used plastic 4" blast gates screwed to the 4" pipe and a 6" metal blast gate bolted with small machine bolts to the 6" pipe.

As you can see from the photos, I have set up a central location (mounted on the pipe post in my garage) to service my various tools, and use the post to hang up the flex hoses when not in use.... works for me. I ran a separate 4" duct to a floor sweep. The total cost for the PVC pipe, fittings and blast gates was about $200 Canadian.

Attached are some photos of my set-up.

[Bob Aquino]

Someone over on woodnet posted a question about cutting S&D pipe and I replied about the experience I had when I tried to cut 6" S&D pipe on the bandsaw and the miter saw. Both times I had the stuff shatter and fly all over. What was surpriesing was that two other guys also had the same experience. Now I have cut 4" stuff without too much fuss but the 6" material seems to be much more brittle and prone to catching the saw in just the wrong way.
When the stuff shattered on the miter saw, it broke a part of the plastic guard off. When it shattered on the bandsaw, it bent the blade. Be carefull with this stuff.

[Greg Narozniak]

I used 6" and 4" S & D on my Oneida System and I used a 14" Chop saw (Abrasive Wheel) and I was able to cut most of the way through it and then just rotate the pipe rest of the way through. Worked pretty well.

I also cut S & D on the Band Saw using a ¼" Timberwolf blade and had not issues what so ever. If I can fit it on the bandsaw that is my choice way of cutting it.

[Ted Shrader]

Bryan -

Thanks for those pictures! They answered a lot of questions for me.

I am getting ready to take the plunge for a cyclone. Am considering an Oneida 2HP. Is yours the 1.5 or 2? I assume since you have the cartridge air filters you also have the silencer. The Oneida literature says the sound level is between 75dB and 80dB at 10 feet. How loud (in real world comparison terms) is the unit when running?

I will be using mine in the garage, too (10" ceilings) and was worried about sound reflecting from the walls. I don't have the room to locate it in a "closet" or outside.

Thanks,
Ted

[Mike Kelly]

Ted, I have the 1.5 HP Oneida with muffler, and then upgraded to the external filter. It is now even quieter and I can carry on a normal conversation right next to the exhaust. I have the Oneida mounted right outside the shop wall.

[Bryan Nuss]

Hi Ted,I have the 1.5 hp Oneida cyclone and love it! It comes equipped with the silencer these days as standard. It works extremely well at both chip and dust collection. After emptying about the 8th barrel, I thoughly cleaned out the inside of the filter and brushed / knocked out about at least a cubic foot of "smaller than flour" fines. It had been still chugging along at a great rate!

I too was initially concerned about the sound level, but have found it not bad at all. To me, it is quieter than my palm sander. The sound is at a relatively low frequency and makes very much less noise than a shop vac or even the house built-in vacuum system. It is very, very much less than operating a jointer or thickness planer, and sound muffs are not necessary for the DC alone. The sound of the cyclone in the attached garage is just noticeable in the house, but no more so than the washer or dryer ... in other words, not a problem at all. The "reflection of sound from the walls" is a non-event. The walls do not vibrate noticeably at all (either from the sound or through the attachment brackets), and neither does the ceiling which is the underside of two bedrooms in my split level house. I myself will not bother to build a closet for it.

The ceiling height in my garage is only 88" and I had no problem in setting up the cyclone. If you look at my photos, you will see I have about an 8" length of flex hose to the barrel. I think you could get away with 85-1/2" ceiling height for the 1.5 hp. The top of the motor (1.5 hp) is 1" from the ceiling. Double-check the dimensions for the 2 hp, if you get it. The variable is the distance from the barrel to the underside of the cyclone ... you have to be able to get the flex hose on and off.

I have a one-man shop/garage, with all my major tools on wheels or mounted on wheeled cabinets. I only use one major tool at a time and the 1.5 hp Oneida cyclone easily handles them all. I have a 6" jointer/plane, a 12-1/2" thickness planer, a 2-1/4 hp router mounted on a router table, a Shopsmith (table saw, jig saw, band saw, lathe, etc.), a 4' x 2-1/2' perforated pegboard sanding table.

The longest run I have is 26' of 6" and 20' of 4" ducting. I have used both a 6" and a 4" duct at the same time and would guess the loss is less than 50% in each. Oneida recommends a minimum of a 4" duct at any time for the 1.5 hp version to prevent overloading the motor (you can hear the motor groan if you only allow 2-1/2").

Now, as to cutting PVE S&D piping .... I used a secret weapon ... a handsaw! Works like a charm! Very safe! Cuts don't have to be perfectly square, after all, you slip the end into a fitting where it can't be seen.

Trust this answers some of your questions.

4" of snow on the ground!

[Chris Padilla]

Bill recommends the 2729 ASTM S&D 6" PVC for DC piping. I would look up your local irrigation warehouse to get some quotes or just walk around their yard and take in the myriad of PVC they have! :) One thing you don't want is Sch 40! The cost of the fittings will make you laugh and laugh and laugh.... :)

This is a really, really, long thread but I would like to encourage you to read it through...there are a lot of good nuggets in there.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=7853

Also, I built my own cyclone from the BP/CE plans. Since I am redoing my garage, I haven't had time to set it up. Lots of pics by moi in there so be patient. :)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9933

[Dave Right]

I agree with Greg. I am in the process of installing that right now and use radial arm saw with abrasive blade. Takes about 4 turns and cuts nice and even.
Have to use a stop block so it is easier to turn and keep the cut on track.

[Ted Shrader]

Mike, Bryan, Chris, Dave -

Thanks for the info. I was especially concenrned about additional noise. I intend to mount it on the outside wall right next to the walk thru door (ouside of which are the trash barrels) so the sound would not transmit into the house. There is nothing above the garage except attic - no bedrooms etc.

Bryan - Your duct runs are about as long as mine will be so it is good to hear the 1½HP does well - even with a filter load of fine dust. Was thinking 2HP since we could potentially be moving to another place where there will be an actual dedicated shop in the not too distant future. The tool collection is similar - the only larger load I have is a 15" planer. Thanks for the valuable info and the pictures!

Regards,
Ted

[Brad Hammond]

thanx so much everyone! i sure hated to rehash a subject that i'm sure has been discussed over and over again.
you've all been a wonderful help!!!

brad

[Brad Hammond]

the next question is...................

what size inlet should i use to hook up to the pencil sharpener?

seriously.............

how'd you get around the chip seperator issue? doesn't it come with 4" inlets?

cya
brad