Plane advise?

[John Miliunas]

First off, "Shhhhhhhh! Don't tell the Power tool side I'm here!" :o

OK, I think I'm in need of one of those cordless things, which I believe you folks call a "plane". Don't make sense to me, as a plane normally has, at least, two wings and the majority of them have some type of motorized proponent utilized to propel it forward. :D

At any rate, here's my situation: I'm doing a LOT of casing and trim work. There are, however, several problems with what should normally be a pretty easy job. All of it is being done in an active environment, that being our home and we really can't empty out a room to use for working in. That leads to the second non-variable: My TS and CMS are both remaining n the shop, a "stand-alone" not attached to the house. Finally, all the window structures, as well as every other single area I've worked on isn't straight, plumb or square! So, I measure, go downstairs, out the door, to the shop and make my cuts. Reverse order and go try to install the cut pieces. Sure enough, not all of them are "exact". So, I was thinking that a small plane to knock down a long end, might be the ticket. Yes/no?

If so, what would be the recommended flavor and brand? I know LN is a big favorite among folks, but I really can't swing that right now. So, besides LN where AND what type? :confused: :cool:

[Erin Raasch]

My favorite hand plane for carrying everywhere is the Stanley 60 1/2 block plane with adjustable mouth. Fits in a pocket and can be used one-handed; great for all those little trimming jobs where you need something portable. You should be able to get one off of e-bay for a reasonable ($20-$40) price.

I believe Stanley still makes that particular model, but you'll want to go with an older one because it's really true what they say - "They don't make 'em like they used to."

Now, if you want to spend big bucks, I'm sure Lie Nielson's got something wonderful, but my little garage-sale number serves me as well as any of those pricey ones.

Erin

[Dennis McDonaugh]

John, are you talking about taking some length off of trim and casings? If you are, a good, low angle. block plane would work well. I like old Stanley 65s, but you can't usually just walk in some place and buy one. I hear good things about Veritas planes and they are less than LNs. If you are talking about taking some length off of plywood, then you'll need a bigger plane. I've done that with both a number 4 and 5.

[John Miliunas]

John, are you talking about taking some length off of trim and casings? If you are, a good, low angle. block plane would work well. I like old Stanley 65s, but you can't usually just walk in some place and buy one. I hear good things about Veritas planes and they are less than LNs. If you are talking about taking some length off of plywood, then you'll need a bigger plane. I've done that with both a number 4 and 5.

Erine & Dennis, thanks for the additional info on this subject! (Feels like I'm just learning how to crawl!) :rolleyes: Anyway, from what I've read in product descriptions, a low angle block plane is what I should be looking at. The LN is just too much money. I like the idea of the less expensive older Stanley, but then I'm not sure I have the know-how or time to restore something like that to good working order. I'm thinking along the lines of the Lee Valley one, I guess. I've always been happy with their products in the past and I understand that the Veritas planes are real, REAL close to the LN's. :cool:

[Ed Falis]

Sounds to me like Veritas Low-Angle block plane would be just the number for you. I use mine all the time. So does my wife. (Whar is that thing now???)

Lee Vally - you know where.

- Ed

[Tim Sproul]

I have the Veritas Low angle block. It is an excellent plane but a bit big and heavy to put in your tool belt or apron when doing trim. I'd suggest the apron plane - smaller, lighter, less expensive and you can get a holster to fit it if you desire. As long as the iron is sharp, it well remove end grain without ado. Remember to plane such that any blow-out will be hidden once the trim is applied.

Also, a hand coping saw is a boon as sometimes you just need to cope/back cut a miter to get it to fit.

I also have a sharpened stiff putty knife for removing "imperfections" from the sheetrock mudders.

[Bob Smalser]

I can't think of a power-only woodworker that wouldn't save gobs of time with just two planes:

Bevel-up block plane with adjustable mouth for general trimming. Stanley #60 1/2 or #18. 30-40 bucks used.

Shoulder plane like a Stanley 93 or the newer L/N models. I prefer the #93 because it pulls as well as it pushes. 60 bucks and up used. Crossgrain trimming of joints right up to the shoulder and the endgrain shoulder itself. I'm as experienced with the TS as most, and I can't cut properly-fitting tenons near as well or as fast fiddling with the TS/Tenon Jig alone versus dadoing them out a tad fat then paring to fit using a shoulder plane.

I can also think of a few objects that can't be made at all without bench planes....oars come immediately to mind, but there are more....and a prewar Stanley #3 or #4 are basic shop tools for those purposes.

You can spend more money on fancy new prestige planes, but if you have basic sharpening skills and think you can flatten a sole, you're wasting your money unless you really prefer something fancier. An exception for you might be the L/N rabbeting block plane:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=60_5R

It's pretty wide for shoulder plane use, but it'll work for most applications of both shoulder and block plane with not too much additional cost and little or no tuning required.

[Jim Becker]

John, the new December 2004 issue of WOOD Magazine features a little two-page article on low-angle block planes. The L-N and the LV got the nod for Top Tool and Top Value respectively. Only go with the Stanley if you can find an old one. I have the L-N and love it...it gets a lot of use, even in my electron-infused shop...

[Lloyd Robins]

John, I have had the LN bronze LA block plane for years. It is what introduced me to planing. I have always loved it. It and the LV are about the same price. The LV has a few extras if they are of interest. LN also has an iron model that is a quite a bit less. You can save a little bit on the LN planes from the following location. They are also good people to deal with.

http://www.finetoolj.com/lnorder.html

Good luck and welcome to the slope. :D

[Derek Cohen]

John

You have been given some really great advice here so far.

My vote would go along similar lines to Bob S. I agree with him on all accounts. The Stanley #93 shoulder plane is extremely versatile and just the tool for trimming, even being used as a chisel plane (you just remove the nose). I also think a block plane is what you need, but the choice here is a bit trickier. I love the Stanley #65, and I think that you'd love the LV. They are biggish planes by block plane standards. At the other end of the scale is the LN #102 bronze, which I have and can endorse as THE plane to slip into a pocket. It is also now available in a cheaper, cast iron format. In the middle of these is the #60-1/2.

Of course, once you have these you will need to be thinking along the lines of a #4, and THEN you'll be on your way!!!!!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Miliunas]

:eek: Yikes! :eek: You folks are really trying to make me slip here, aren't you?! I should let you know that way, WAY back when, I did a little downhill skiing, but was never all that good at it. I'm not sure about this "slope" thing! :D

Anyhow, thanks to Lloyd's vendor hint, I'm considering the LN, low angle block plane (#102). Now, oh great gods of the un-corded world, any advantage/disadvantage when comparing LV with LN? Yes, I also considered the less expensive option of an older Stanley, but for a "first" real plane, I think I might like the advantage of having one ready to go, out of the box. That way, I'd get a better feel for what a good one (old or new) should work and look like before trying to restore an older one. I figure it's an investment, in either event. So, LV or LN? :confused:

On another note, I've also been advised to seriously look into the LV scraper plane, particularly for figured woods. Comments? Suggestions? :) :cool:

[JayStPeter]

Hey, I'll throw a wrench in here :D .

LN has a LA rabbeting block plane. It'll give you the functionality of a LA block, plus the ability to trim rabbets/tennons. I have one, but have barely had a chance to sharpen the blade. No shavings so far.

I also have the LV LA block, it is my goto. As a very novice handplane user, I find the blade adjustment mechanism on it much easier to deal with than any of the other planes I've tried. So far, it's the only plane I really use regularly. It remains to be seen if the LN eventually takes over.

Jay

[John Weber]

John,

Lloyd's link to Fine Tool Journal's LN page is the best prices you will fine, they offer discounts plus free shipping. As for a block plane, I would go for a LN, a LA adjustable mouth will give you a little more flexibility, but the bronze (or now cast iron even less money) fixed mouth LA plane is simply wonderful. It's light, easy to adjust, feels great in the hand and is just beautiful. The bronze version is like $88 shipped. The Lee Valley planes are also nice, but the LN's are as nice to hold as to look at, the LV are just as functional, but lack a little of the refined fit and finish or the LN's.

As for scraper planes, the LV is sweet, it has a couple advantages over the LN, and works great. I have one. For $129 a very nice plane.

The one thing that will make a difference no matter what you buy is sharpening - very important. The simplest and easiest method is David Charlesworth's water stone system. For around $100 for 2 Norton water stones and a jig from www.toolsforwoodworking.com and David's book or video, you can easily obtain awesome results. I took his class this past summer and was extremely impresses. I have a Tormek I still use a lot, but for plane irons and chisels David’s method is tops. He uses a couple tricks to make it a fast process with excellent repeatable results. The $100 is very well spent.

How the power guys are falling, first Becker, and then Chris, now you - I fell a couple years ago.

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/pond/planerackfront.jpg

Enjoy the slide - John

[John Miliunas]

Thanks for the additional info, John! :) Bad enough I'm still a relative newbie to WW, the whole "Dark Side" has me reeling! :eek: (I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. Ain't gonna' happen. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. POWER is good. POWER is good. POWER is good.) There. I think I just took care of it! Now 'scuse me while I go check out that other link you gave me.... :D :cool:

[Scott Parks]

First off, "Shhhhhhhh! Don't tell the Power tool side I'm here!" :o

OK, I think I'm in need of one of those cordless things, which I believe you folks call a "plane". Don't make sense to me, as a plane normally has, at least, two wings and the majority of them have some type of motorized proponent utilized to propel it forward. :D
Hah! Caughtcha over here! The plane I use almost daily is powered by 2 kerosene burnin' GE turbofans... But that'll run you about $25million:D

My back-up that I use at home, (it lives in my tool belt) is a Stanley 60 hand-me-down. I know they don't make 'em like they used to, but I use it a lot, and it works. It doesn't do as good of a job on endgrain though. When I got back into WW 7 years ago, I lived in an apartment with no tool money, and only had a Stanley 60, a coping saw, dovetail saw, handsaw, chisels, drill, c-clamps, and a circular saw. I was able to make a nice bookcase and waterbed frame with only these tools. Although I cheated and borrowed a router for making dados.

Opinion, Cordless, Neander tools work in harmony with power tools...

[Greg Wandless]

John,

Resistance is futile. You be assimilated!!

Greg

[John Miliunas]

Hah! Caughtcha over here! The plane I use almost daily is powered by 2 kerosene burnin' GE turbofans... But that'll run you about $25million:D

Opinion, Cordless, Neander tools work in harmony with power tools...

Gee Scott, I can't seem to find that particular plane at LV! :D No biggie...Price is just a tad out of my budget, anyway! :eek:

I feel I'm of the same opinion or, at least, hope to be sometime in the near future. I've got soem arthritis and/or carpal tunnel ailments in both of my hands, so I can't see myself devoting a LOT of time, space and $$ to hand tools, but I can certainly see them being an asset and enhancement to my beloved electron burners. In the case of the block plane, I also hope to save myself a LOT of steps and still achieve better results than what I've been getting when working "on site". Guess I'll need to check at Woodcraft for a class on the "Care and Feeding of Planes", heh? :) Thanks again for the advice AND support! :cool:

[John Miliunas]

John,

Resistance is futile. You be assimilated!!

Greg

"I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. Ain't gonna' happen. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. POWER is good. POWER is good. POWER is good." Tim Allen is my HERO! :p :cool:

[Tyler Howell]

If you'd like, I'll bring some "treasures" to intice you on Friday. Give you some Ideas!

[John Miliunas]

If you'd like, I'll bring some "treasures" to intice you on Friday. Give you some Ideas!

You were reading my mind there, bud! (I know...Don't take much! :rolleyes: ) I was going to email and ask you to do exactly that! Muchos gracias! :) :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

LOL...LOL...LOL... :D :D

Why don't we just leave at the fact that a lot of us are TOOL JUNKIES! :) That will cover plugs and non-plugs. :)

[John Miliunas]

LOL...LOL...LOL... :D :D

Why don't we just leave at the fact that a lot of us are TOOL JUNKIES! :) That will cover plugs and non-plugs. :)

"Hi, my name is John and I'm a toolaholic. It all started when......" :o

Yeah, I think you're right, Chris, but I think it's to varying degrees with different folks. Personally, my experience and skills are limited, at best. If a tool can give me even a slight advantage, then I may decide it's worth my time and $$. I'm hoping I'm right on the choice of going with a few nice hand tools. You WILL note that, I did say FEW!!! NOT a LOT or MANY! A couple or FEW, at best! :D (Shhhhhhhh...Don't let my TS or BS hear that! :eek: )

[John Miliunas]

You guys (you too, Erin) are all bad, bad people! Alliant Energy, our local electric company, will be calling on you to find out exactly WHY your are intentionally trying to take away some of their Electron Provision income from my humble abode! Yes, YOU!!! It's ALL YOUR fault for having forced me to call Fine Tool Journal and order No. 102! :eek: Lloyd, especially YOU! I think you can be expecting a call from LOML, my daughter (who will now have to delay her college education for another 4 years!), the dog, both cats and my grandmother, may she rest in peace! :eek: On the bright side, some of my trim joints might be a tad nicer now! :D Thanks for all of your help, folks! :) :cool:

[Michael Stafford]

There is no one that loves his power tools more than me. Having said that I'm with Bob Smalser in that I couldn't live without a few of my planes. Trimming a miter, straightening a short board after ripping or planing a box after sawing in two on the table saw. No better or quicker way than with a nice sharp plane. Love that sound when a sharp plane blade slices wood...Sweet!

[Lloyd Robins]

John, it is not the 102 that is expensive. It is the 4-1/2 and 6 and the 8 and the ..... that follow. I was thinking of trying to go completely neander like Joel, but I had to work on some sheet goods the other day, and now my TS has quit complaining as it has had something to do. I guess that electrons are not all bad. Good luck with your new plane.

[John Miliunas]

John, it is not the 102 that is expensive. It is the 4-1/2 and 6 and the 8 and the ..... that follow. I was thinking of trying to go completely neander like Joel, but I had to work on some sheet goods the other day, and now my TS has quit complaining as it has had something to do. I guess that electrons are not all bad. Good luck with your new plane.

"Expen$ive" i$ right! :eek: If a guy were to have ALL the LN's available, you could easily outfit an electron burner shop quite nicely! :D BUT, as I said before, "I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. Ain't gonna' happen. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. POWER is good. POWER is good. POWER is good." Tim Allen is my HERO! :D :D :D :cool:

[Dave Anderson NH]

About the cost of a fully outfitted Neander shop. While I am somewhat bottom end in power tools compared to many here on SMC (contractors saw, 6" jointer, jet 1236 lathe, etc) my investment in hand tools is way up there. Being a Yankee, I own very few LN tools, but still my total investment in hand tools exceeds my power tools by a factor of over 4:1. In just hand planes alon, I have almost 2-2 1/2 times the total of all of my power tools. Just ask Mark Stutz about my priorities, my Neander shop is far bigger than my power tool shop. But then again, that's the way it's supposed to be.:D

[John Miliunas]

my Neander shop is far bigger than my power tool shop. But then again, that's the way it's supposed to be.:D

Ahem....OK, I'm a "visitor" over here, so I'll be nice and reserve my comments! :D Let me just say that, if it was "supposed" to be that way, God wouldn't have created electricity! :) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

or fast food!

Ahem....OK, I'm a "visitor" over here, so I'll be nice and reserve my comments! :D Let me just say that, if it was "supposed" to be that way, God wouldn't have created electricity! :) :cool:

[Steve Wargo]

I think that I like my moulding planes more than any. But I'm picky with them, so I tend not to buy any that are never going to get used. I've never cut molding with a router. Ever! In fact I never had a router until a few months ago when I sold my Table saw. The feeling of cutting molding with planes just makes me happy. I honestly look forward to it. When I approach the end of a piece I often find myself looking for places to insert decorative accents just so I can cut more molding. Be careful on your journey into "Planedome". While I don't consider my self a collector, I have spent a little more for things that say E. Preston & Sons.

[Maurice Ungaro]

John....wow...WHAT DID YOU DO?
The Lee Valley website has a huge "THANK YOU John Miliunas" banner scrolling across the top. How many Brown trucks will it take to deliver your order?:eek:

Maurice

[John Miliunas]

John....wow...WHAT DID YOU DO?
The Lee Valley website has a huge "THANK YOU John Miliunas" banner scrolling across the top. How many Brown trucks will it take to deliver your order?:eek:

Maurice

OK, Maurice. ONE more time: ]]"I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. I will NOT slide. Ain't gonna' happen. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. I LOVE my electrons. POWER is good. POWER is good. POWER is good." Tim Allen is my HERO![/COLOR]

[Chris Padilla]

Wifey just got me a LV LA smoother (along with the higher angle cutter) for X-mas! :D :D What a sweetie...except that I can't touch it until 12/25.... :(

[Maurice Ungaro]

Chris - You just have to appreciate a good woman like that!

John - Your mantra is useless against the Force.:D

Maurice

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, I even asked if I could just take it out the box...make sure it is not damaged...maybe sharpen it a bit...you know, make sure it works!!! She ain't biting...I'm not even allowed to touch the box while it sits on the patio (I always get home before her)...sigh.... :o

[Maurice Ungaro]

Chris, I feel your angst. I've got a new Bandsaw (my Christmas present) in storage right now (still in the box) since the footings have just been poured for our garage/my workshop. IF I'm lucky, I'll be able to uncrate it by Christmas!!!

Maurice

[John Miliunas]

John - Your mantra is useless against the Force.:D

Maurice

Hrmph! Bad people. Bad, BAD people! :mad: Now, if you'll excuse me...I would like to go check out that scraper plane at LV! :p :cool:

[Mark Stutz]

John,
I think you will really like that plane. Although I am a little farther down the slope, I can tell you that... Slide you will. The Force is too strong! :D ;) I will second Dave's comment about his shop. The electron side adequately supports the Neander side. He turns out some beautiful work.

Steve,
I appreciate your comments about moldings. That is the kind of thing that us neophytes have no clue about. In order not to hijack this thread, it would be great if you or anyone could put together a pictorial on how to do moldings with hand planes, in another thread. I wouldn't have a clue where to start. :confused:

[Maurice Ungaro]

John,
I've been eye-ballin' that LV scraper plane snce they unveilled it. Man, it sure looks like a fine addition. Let me know how you like it - not that I'm hesitant to get one myself, mind you, it's just that my tool spending has been maxed out as of late.

Maurice

[Ed Falis]

Hrmph! Bad people. Bad, BAD people! :mad: Now, if you'll excuse me...I would like to go check out that scraper plane at LV! :p :cool:

Just don't forget the low-angle smoother with both the low and high angle blades.

(you're screwed, Buddy. Hey everyone, look he's sliding down the hill ....!)

- Ed

[Louis Bois]

JOHN!!! YOU NEED HELP!!! Give me your hand and I'll help you...GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SLOPE!!!!! MMWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!...did I neglect to mention that I'm at the bottom of that slope?!?

Seriously though, you'll really appreciate the versatility of hand planes...and you'll find yourself reaching for it (soon to be them) more often than you can imagine.

Good luck!

[John Miliunas]

Thanks for all your...ahem....*support*! :eek: Mind you now, that once I do get a couple of those tools in the shop, you're going to be *responsible* for answering a LOT of really, REALLY dumb questions, which I'm sure I'll have! Once I figure out where the batteries go, I think I'll be OK, but the pictures I've seen thus far, are pretty deceiving! Plus, I note that none of the manufacturers include a charger with them, so I guess I'm on my own there, too! :eek: :) :cool:

[Tom LaRussa]

Now, if you want to spend big bucks, I'm sure Lie Nielson's got something wonderful, but my little garage-sale number serves me as well as any of those pricey ones.
YEAH ERIN! :)

You go girl!

[John Miliunas]

YEAH ERIN! :)

You go girl!

Yup, I'm sure there is much truth to that. However, one needs to remember that, if I were to go in search of such a treasure, I wouldn't even have a clue as to what to look for, as in, what's good, bad or otherwise! :( And, even if I were to identify something as a sought after piece, now what? Up until recently, I thought a "sole" was something the good Padre was trying to save on Sunday! :) :cool:

[Danny Jennings]

Swish..swish..swish.
Listen to the sound of the Force...Feel the sound of the Force..be One with the Force.
Welcome to Neanderville

...as the Eagles said:
" you can check out any time you like,
but you can never leave."

:cool: :cool: :cool: :D :D :D

Danny

[Tom LaRussa]

Yup, I'm sure there is much truth to that.
Oops! Sorry John. That really was not meant as a dig at you.

I was just congratulating Erin for being such a spunky newbie -- she's only been woodworking a little while now and she's already hand planing stuff and hand cutting dovetails.

Now that's my kinda gal! (Married, of course. {{{SIGH}}})



However, one needs to remember that, if I were to go in search of such a treasure, I wouldn't even have a clue as to what to look for, as in, what's good, bad or otherwise! :(
Okay, but that's part of the grand adventure called "life," no? :D

Besides, you have all of us to help you. :eek:



And, even if I were to identify something as a sought after piece, now what?
Hmmm...

I bet you think you've got me with that one, don't you?

HAH!

Far from it!

For I just happen to know that you are getting together Friday with that guru of handplane gurus, (not to mention Papa di Tutti Papas), the One, the Only, the Great, Tyler (don't call me "Thurston") Howell! :eek: (I read it in his post earlier in the thread.)

I'm sure that he'd be more than happy to teach you everything you need to know. :D

[John Miliunas]

Oops! Sorry John. That really was not meant as a dig at you.

Besides, you have all of us to help you. :eek:


For I just happen to know that you are getting together Friday with that guru of handplane gurus, (not to mention Papa di Tutti Papas), the One, the Only, the Great, Tyler (don't call me "Thurston") Howell! :eek: (I read it in his post earlier in the thread.)

I'm sure that he'd be more than happy to teach you everything you need to know. :D

Tom, that was in NO way taken as a "dig"! And, even if it were meant as one, for all the crapola I always give the Neanders, I'd deserve it, anyway! :D

I *KNOW* I've got you guys to help! This whole forum is a plethora of vast and valuable information. I just feel so dern guilty that I usually can't reciprocate in like manner. :(

Now, as for "Thurston", I also *KNOW* that he is more than willing to share his knowledge! Two minor problems with that: 1) He'll be here but for a short while and I'm by, no stretch of the imagination, a "sponge" for consuming information. 2) He's good, but he ain't no magician and to get me up to speed in such short order, would take Houdini himself! :D

That said, I am willing to try and learn. Plus, given the fact that I won't be messin' with a Bargain Basement find, I had better pay close attention! :) :cool:

[Erin Raasch]

Tom, that was in NO way taken as a "dig"! And, even if it were meant as one, for all the crapola I always give the Neanders, I'd deserve it, anyway! :D

All that crapola, and now it's payback time :) Bet you never thought a simple question could launch 4 pages of ribbin' :D (interspersed with a good deal of good advice, of course!)


Now, as for "Thurston", I also *KNOW* that he is more than willing to share his knowledge! Two minor problems with that: 1) He'll be here but for a short while and I'm by, no stretch of the imagination, a "sponge" for consuming information. 2) He's good, but he ain't no magician and to get me up to speed in such short order, would take Houdini himself! :D


You mean to tell me that Tyler's comin' to town . . . and nobody told me!!!! :mad:

You know, I really kind of lucked out on that little garage sale special. It had belonged to my father-in-law, he was something of a pack rat (to put it mildly). He passed away a few years ago, so whenever we go up to visit the MIL, we check out the basement to see if we can find any lost treasures in with all the . . . ah, . . . less valuable stuff. He had this little Stanley 60 1/2 in amongst a collection of mostly worthless junk . . . it still had the garage sale masking tape price sticker on it. Little bit of rust from sitting in the basement who knows how may years, but otherwise like new. Took it home, cleaned off the rust, sharpened the blade, and it was ready to go. It's one plane that's always at hand when I'm working with wood.

Good luck on your tool acquisition, John - I'm afraid that once you get your hands on one of those babies, whether a new LN or a vintage Stanley, you're gonna be a goner :D

Erin

[John Miliunas]

All that crapola, and now it's payback time :) Bet you never thought a simple question could launch 4 pages of ribbin' :D (interspersed with a good deal of good advice, of course!)

Uh no, I didn't think it would cause so many responses! Sheeesh...And I thought the "power" side was passionate about our tools! :D


You mean to tell me that Tyler's comin' to town . . . and nobody told me!!!! :mad:

Yup, he's sliding on through, on his way to his daughter's graduation in Beer Town. Drop him a line....You're along the designated route, too! :)



Good luck on your tool acquisition, John - I'm afraid that once you get your hands on one of those babies, whether a new LN or a vintage Stanley, you're gonna be a goner :D

Erin

"Goner"?! :eek: Sheeesh...I hope not! My tool budget is already in disarray and I've still got a couple corded beasts I've been wanting to get. Don't think that'll happen anytime soon, either! :(

This little purchase has a very specific purpose in mine. I have little doubt that it will be a tool used well beyond the specific project. Now, when we start looking at the rest of the stable of planes and such, they may be just a tad bit harder to justify! :cool:

[Tom LaRussa]

Now, when we start looking at the rest of the stable of planes and such, they may be just a tad bit harder to justify! :cool:
Don't worry John, it gets easier and easier. :D

Once you've fettled one plane -- even a brand new one -- you'll be free from the anxiety that currently surrounds the subject, which means that you'll be able to go bargain hunting on eBay.

Here are some examples from my own purchases:

Stanley #7, $27.60 including shipping

Stanley #4 & #5, about $22 each, including shipping

4 convex-bottomed woodies from England, $12-$17 each, including shipping

Various American woodies -- $7.50 - $15 each, including shipping

Stanley #80 cabinet scraper -- $26 including shipping

Record curved bottom spokeshave -- $17.50 including shipping

In other words, once you know how to clean them up and make them feel loved again, these little beauties are dirt cheap!:eek:

[Rich Konopka]

Hey John, They sent me over here to look for you. Them electron huggers are all worried you going to become a convert. :D

[John Miliunas]

Don't worry John, it gets easier and easier. :D

Once you've fettled one plane -- even a brand new one -- you'll be free from the anxiety that currently surrounds the subject,

OK, now why is it that sounds like it should be illegal?! :eek: Didn't Michael Jackson get in trouble for that? :confused: (Gads, it's been a LONG day already! Sorry....I digress.)

Well, just so you guys feel better about pushing me off the side of the hill, I guess I'll let you know that I'm doing my part for the economy. I broke out the plastic this morning and put my order in for the scraper planer from LV. I'll let you know what that's like, once I get it and, believe me, it WILL be a completely UNbiased opinion! :D :cool:

[Erin Raasch]

OK, now why is it that sounds like it should be illegal?! :eek: Didn't Michael Jackson get in trouble for that? :confused: (Gads, it's been a LONG day already! Sorry....I digress.)

Ummm . . . and then you get to the part about screwing frogs . . . see what you've got to look forward to? :D

Erin

[Louis Bois]

oh dear...and I thought "fettling" was a dirty word...this is going in a bad direction...like trueing bottoms...filing beds...opening mouths!!!:eek::eek::eek:

...nudge, nudge...wink, wink!!!:D;)

[Erin Raasch]

Oh, no John :eek: what's happened? You're just a shadow of your former self. Don't tell me you've slid down that slope and GONE COMPLETELY OVER THE EDGE!!!!!!!!!

Erin

[John Miliunas]

I repeat: You guys are all bad, BAD people! :eek: On the other hand, this has been loads of fun already! :D

That said, I am now officially bummed. I called Fine Tool Journal early Mon. afternoon. I was told it would go out the next day and they said I'd get tracking info emailed to me as soon as it went out. Hadn't received anything, so I called this morning and they may have fat-fingered my email address or something, but it bounced back to them. I got the tracking info from the gal and find that it actually didn't go out until late *yesterday* afternoon and isn't due in until Monday! :mad: Grrrrr....I was kind of looking forward to trying it out this weekend and maybe even getting some pro tips from Tyler "Don't call me Thurston" Howell this evening when he stops over for a visit! Bummed!!!! :( :cool:

[John Miliunas]

A couple days later than expected, but the thrill is still there! Yup, received my first LN today. The low angle block plane as some of you suggested. It was packaged beautifully and I think would've easily passed the UPS Drop Test! :)

Now, having finally got my mitts on one, I just don't understand what all the dern hype is about! :confused: Sure, the fit and finish is superb. Yeah, I guess it has a nice feel in one's hand. For such a small plane, it's got some good heft to it. But, just because it cuts see-through ribbons right out of the box, doesn't make it any better than my Laguna BS or Bridgewood table saw! Nosirrrreeeee! And, although it left a nicer edge on my Oak trial board than its sanded counterpart, I'm NOT going to start selling off my corded tools! :) (But, I might get a couple more of these cordless thinga-ma-bobs!) So, suggestions on the next general plane? Also, I intend on using Scary Sharp through about 1000 or so. What progression of stones after that? Wet stone, oil or diamond? (I warned you guys there'd be a LOT of questions!) Tyler already gave me a rough rundown, but I'm trying to get a feel for what the majority are using and what would be the minimum I could get by on without breaking the bank! :) (See, I told you all were bad, BAD people! Now you've got me digging in to my POWER tool monies!) :mad: Oh yeah, here's a picture of the plane and a couple shavings I managed to get off it. Thanks for taking a peek! :) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,

Wow! Both feet for sure! Did you find where you plug it in? Where is the power cord.
Seriously, congradulations!
I would reccomend a ECE Primus reformed smoother. It is the finest, easiest to use woodie with zero lash...light and sweet. I am sure others will have other ideas though.http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/24p0401s2.jpg

[Lloyd Robins]

Good the slope is getting to you. ;) You might want to contact Joel at www.toolsforworkingwood.com . He handles the 3M abrasives for scary sharp that go all the way to .3 microns. You just purchase a couple of trial packs and 5 glass plates, and you are on your way. Without commiting a lot of dinero to something that you might not like. Then you can try other systems as you visit friends and stores until you find one that you like. :D Good luck.

[John Miliunas]

John,

Wow! Both feet for sure! Did you find where you plug it in? Where is the power cord.
Seriously, congradulations!
I would reccomend a ECE Primus reformed smoother. It is the finest, easiest to use woodie with zero lash...light and sweet. I am sure others will have other ideas though.http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/24p0401s2.jpg

OK Mark....Good place to obtain said Primus 711 at a fair price? :confused: :) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Good the slope is getting to you. ;) You might want to contact Joel at www.toolsforworkingwood.com . He handles the 3M abrasives for scary sharp that go all the way to .3 microns. You just purchase a couple of trial packs and 5 glass plates, and you are on your way. Without commiting a lot of dinero to something that you might not like. Then you can try other systems as you visit friends and stores until you find one that you like. :D Good luck.

Lloyd, this is all YOUR fault in the first place! :D All's I can say is: Thanks, buddy! One lousy little plane and I'm already having a blast! Who'd a thunk?! :eek: I like the idea of not having to spend a guzillion bucks on water stones and such! I'll check out your source. You've steered me right thus far! :) :cool:

[Tyler Howell]

He's toast!:D :D :D :p

Congrats Bud!

[John Miliunas]

He's toast!:D :D :D :p

Congrats Bud!

Yeah, and YOU'RE just as responsible as Lloyd! :mad: You're bad, BAD people! :D Hey, even Jill was impressed with the cut on it! To quote: "Well, NOW you know why they're so expensive!" Yup, I can see where the two camps can cohabitate to make a very nice final product. I just wish I didn't have as much house rebuild crap to do, so that I could really enjoy this more! Oh well...It'll come. Thanks again! :) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,

The Best Things seems to have the best price...If your right handed, get the right hand version. Read Lee's (owner of "The Best Things" ) description. What is interesting is he sells the full line of Lie Neilsen as well and he says this will out perform their smoother. It is $179 at Lee Valley. I feel like I am contributing to the performancy (?) of a woodworker,,,in a good way
http://www.thebestthings.com/products.htm



<TABLE width=640><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=25></TD><!Right hand column><TD vAlign=top width=485><CENTER>http://www.thebestthings.com/graphics/logo_liten.gif <HR>http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/ece_logo.gif

E. C. Emmerich Primus Planes
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/ece_intro.jpg </CENTER>The Best Things carries planes and saws from E.C.Emmerich of Germany. The ECE 711 Primus smoothing plane is certainly the best possible manufactured smoothing plane available today. For fine work, the ECE 711 Primus plane will easily outperform Bailey type smoothing planes like the Lie-Nielsen. Only the best antique (or reproduction) British infill planes can match or sometines outperform these ECE Primus planes, and then only on the most difficult woods. The lignum vitae sole of the ECE Primus planes allows them to glide over the work in a way that a metal plane never could. The German tool steel used for the blades of these ECE planes has excellent edge retention properties. At the bare minimum, a ECE 711 Primus plane is a must for every serious cabinetmaker. We hope that you too will find these planes indespensible. <TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=4 width=485 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=430>711 - Improved Primus Smooth Plane - Right Handed

This is the ultimate in a fine finishing plane. It has a cherry body with lignum sole. The throat opeing is adjustable by means of a sliding section of the front sole, which is secured by a screw head on top of the plane body. Adjustable to take the finest of cuts, this is the creme de la creme of modern planes. 8-7/8" long body, 1-7/8" wide iron set at 50 degrees. $165.00
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Alan Turner]

JOhn,
Now that you are on the slope, you will need to be thinking in terms of storage for the handtools, which should be handled in a way that is consistent with the craft. So, my first recommedation is to save (or send over to me) the Ferro-Pak paper that the little LN was shipped in. It is an excellent drawer liner for handtools.
Alan

[John Miliunas]

John,

The Best Things seems to have the best price...If your right handed, get the right hand version. Read Lee's (owner of "The Best Things" ) description. What is interesting is he sells the full line of Lie Neilsen as well and he says this will out perform their smoother. It is $179 at Lee Valley. I feel like I am contributing to the performancy (?) of a woodworker,,,in a good way
http://www.thebestthings.com/products.htm



<TABLE width=640><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=25></TD><!Right hand column><TD vAlign=top width=485><CENTER>http://www.thebestthings.com/graphics/logo_liten.gif <HR>http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/ece_logo.gif

E. C. Emmerich Primus Planes
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/ece_intro.jpg </CENTER>The Best Things carries planes and saws from E.C.Emmerich of Germany. The ECE 711 Primus smoothing plane is certainly the best possible manufactured smoothing plane available today. For fine work, the ECE 711 Primus plane will easily outperform Bailey type smoothing planes like the Lie-Nielsen. Only the best antique (or reproduction) British infill planes can match or sometines outperform these ECE Primus planes, and then only on the most difficult woods. The lignum vitae sole of the ECE Primus planes allows them to glide over the work in a way that a metal plane never could. The German tool steel used for the blades of these ECE planes has excellent edge retention properties. At the bare minimum, a ECE 711 Primus plane is a must for every serious cabinetmaker. We hope that you too will find these planes indespensible. <TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=4 width=485 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=430>711 - Improved Primus Smooth Plane - Right Handed

This is the ultimate in a fine finishing plane. It has a cherry body with lignum sole. The throat opeing is adjustable by means of a sliding section of the front sole, which is secured by a screw head on top of the plane body. Adjustable to take the finest of cuts, this is the creme de la creme of modern planes. 8-7/8" long body, 1-7/8" wide iron set at 50 degrees. $165.00
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Mark, among other things, you must be a mind reader, as well! That's exactly the place I found while cruising around looking at those pieces and thought it was the best pricing. I read about where they claim them to be better than the LN version. Now, the question which still begs to be asked is: How necessary is the Jack Plane? :confused: :cool:

[John Miliunas]

JOhn,
Now that you are on the slope, you will need to be thinking in terms of storage for the handtools, which should be handled in a way that is consistent with the craft. So, my first recommedation is to save (or send over to me) the Ferro-Pak paper that the little LN was shipped in. It is an excellent drawer liner for handtools.
Alan

Alan, already thinking about proper storage! Thanks for the tip on the Ferro-Pak paper. If I don't use it, I'll be happy to send it along to you! I'm now considering to build appropriate storage into the bench cabinet, when I get that far. For the time being, it will probably live in the box it came in, though I do have a leather sling from LV coming, so that I can keep it handy when doing trim work. :) :cool:

[Lloyd Robins]

John, you guys have certainly done a lot of communicating during the wee hours of the morning here in California. I am really happy that you are enjoying your nonelectrial toys (er..tools.) I would recommend a Knight smoother. They are not all that hard to set up, and they cut very well. Try http://www.knight-toolworks.com/ or http://search.ebay.com/knight-toolworks_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsac ategoryZ-1Q26catrefQ3DC6QQsotrtypeZ1QQsotrvalueZ1QQsosortpr opertyZ1Q26sosortorderQ3D1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopa genumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch But if you are still being influenced by the European crowd, consider adding an ECE scrub plane from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=46873&category=1,41182&ccurrency=2&SID=is (only about $63.00 and you could get the ECE jack at the same time for about $123.00. ) :cool: Yes, you will want a jack plane. After a bit of practice you can then add a jointer. At that point you will find out how bad you really have the "sickness," because you will have all the large planes that you probably need (heresy.) You may want to fettle your own, or you may want to try other brands, or you may want to go Japanese, or ....... :eek: Anyway you get the picture. It is really not too bad until you start adding the extras.
When you replenish your money supply, I am certain that we can talk about handsaws. I like Adria's, but others ..............

Good luck and don't let me scare you away. It is really fun and a great learning experience.

Cheers!

(I do not work for any woodworking supply house (darn it)!) :D Let us know how things are progressing.

[Mark Singer]

John,

I have both the ECE jack and the 711 smoother, which I reccomended. They are very similar, yet there is no comparison. They feel the same to hold, the bedding angle is different, you can't close the mouth on the Jack...the Jack is not a true Jack...since it is short, It is intended to smooth using the 711 for the final strokes and no sanding required. Still ,I feel it is a duplication at this point. I would probably get a larger Jack instead...I just ordered the Veritas Low Angle. Since I don't have it yet, I can't say. That size plane would be a nice addition. The LN low Angle #164 is nice too. I would wait until the 711 arrives. I use it for everything..edges, faces...(not end grain). A Medium shoulder plane would be a useful tool...I have several and the Veritas Med. is a great one...the LN 73 is a bit big..I don't use it as much. ECE also makes an "English Jack" I have that one, but don't use it much. It is longer...I think it is 15". A little patience now John...don't get all the toys at once!;)

[Lloyd Robins]

John, Mark is definitely correct. I get carried away sometimes (instant gratification and all that.) Just like with the sharpening it is best to try one or two things before you go on to others. It will help you make better decisions. A scrub plane should really wait for awhile. A jack however can be useful. Knight makes a nice one, but there are all sorts of wonderful things being said about the LV low angle jack (with a low and high angle blade.) Just think of all the future toys (tools.) :)

[Alan Turner]

John,
Yes, you will want, and use, a jack plane. It is just a go-to sort of guy. For this, to save money since you won't be doing your finest work with it, I would recommend that you consider an older Stanley BAiley, No. 5, which should be about $30. Pre WWII will be better. Look for Rosewood as STanley gave this up in the mid-40's. Youmight want a new iron, but th old ones are not bad.
Alan

[Mark Singer]

Alan picked a really good one, I use my #5 all the time . It is a work horse and if tuned is surprisingly good.

[John Miliunas]

"Danger Will Robinson! Danger!" Whew! Information overload! :eek: :o OK, for now, I think I will just do the 711 and let my electron-killing jointer and planer do the "rough-in" work! :) Lots, LOTS to learn, including the proper care and feeding of these beasts! You guys are turning ME into a bad, BAD person! :eek: I'll keep you's guys posted and thanks, ever so much for all your valuable input! You folks just flat out ROCK! :) :cool:

[Steven Wilson]

I would pony up the bucks and get the Lie Nielsen Low Angle, adjustable mouth, block plane (60 1/2). It has enough heft to resist chatter, and the ductile iron construction saves it from cracking when you drop it on the floor. I use mine on almost every project and it's real handy for molding. I've droped mine a couple of times on concrete and it still lives; an older Stanley of mine's casting cracked. This is one plane that is worth buying from LN.

[Tom LaRussa]

A couple days later than expected, but the thrill is still there! Yup, received my first LN today.
And a cute little bugger it is, too. :D



Now, having finally got my mitts on one, I just don't understand what all the dern hype is about! :confused: Sure, the fit and finish is superb. Yeah, I guess it has a nice feel in one's hand. For such a small plane, it's got some good heft to it. But, just because it cuts see-through ribbons right out of the box, doesn't make it any better than my Laguna BS or Bridgewood table saw! Nosirrrreeeee!
Hmm....

So I guess your Laguna was ready to resaw wet hardwood to 1/8" thickness right out of the box, eh? :confused:



And, although it left a nicer edge on my Oak trial board than its sanded counterpart, I'm NOT going to start selling off my corded tools! :)
Oh, of course not.

Just the sanders, and not until you start looking around at projects you completed some time ago and realize how much better the finish could have been if only ...



(But, I might get a couple more of these cordless thinga-ma-bobs!)
Yes, you will.

These things are like potato chips.



So, suggestions on the next general plane?
Oh heck, why one?

Just go on eBay and get yourself a 4, 5, and 7 and be done with it! Should cost less than $100 for all three, shipping included.



Also, I intend on using Scary Sharp through about 1000 or so. What progression of stones after that? Wet stone, oil or diamond?
Why switch?

Lloyd is right, just call or email Joel and have him set you up with the the 3M micron and sub-micron stuff all the way to .03.

Also, be sure and have him send you a honing guide -- (less than $10 last time I looked) -- because holding those puppies at an exact angle by hand is rather difficult.



Oh yeah, here's a picture of the plane and a couple shavings I managed to get off it. Thanks for taking a peek! :) :cool:
Very nice. Imagine how fine those shavings will be when you really get the plane and your technique dialed in! :D

[Lloyd Robins]

Just a last note. Tom, Alan, Bob, and others know what to look for, and they buy planes that I wouldn't lookat right now. When I have tried buying on ebay,(yes, I have bid on a couple or so) the ones that I have bid on sold in the $50.00 to $60.00 range. With a new blade they were getting higher than I wanted to go for an older Stanley. If you know someone who could be a guide it would probably really help.

Next, I just wanted to post something that I cobbled together for my scary sharp stuff. Hopefully, it will inspire you to do something really cool that you can share, and I can toss this one and start over. (The metal plate is for a yet to be realized experiment into diamond paste sharpening.)

[John Miliunas]

Just a last note. Tom, Alan, Bob, and others know what to look for, and they buy planes that I wouldn't lookat right now. When I have tried buying on ebay,(yes, I have bid on a couple or so) the ones that I have bid on sold in the $50.00 to $60.00 range. With a new blade they were getting higher than I wanted to go for an older Stanley. If you know someone who could be a guide it would probably really help.

Next, I just wanted to post something that I cobbled together for my scary sharp stuff. Hopefully, it will inspire you to do something really cool that you can share, and I can toss this one and start over. (The metal plate is for a yet to be realized experiment into diamond paste sharpening.)

Hey Lloyd, I like that! I think I have a fair amount of 1/4" or so glass plates at home and may do something like that! I figure that should be good enough for routine maintenance, though I DO have that THICK lapping plate that Dr. Howell gifted me with for more serious work! :D In the meantime, I went out to the site you recommended and ordered up a couple of the sample packs, which include all the grits. I figure that should give me a good feel for it, as well as give me an indication of the ones I'll be going through the most, so that later, I can order the 10-packs. Thanks again! :) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Just the sanders, and not until you start looking around at projects you completed some time ago and realize how much better the finish could have been if only ...

Yes, you will.
These things are like potato chips.

Oh heck, why one?
Just go on eBay and get yourself a 4, 5, and 7 and be done with it! Should cost less than $100 for all three, shipping included.

Why switch?

Lloyd is right, just call or email Joel and have him set you up with the the 3M micron and sub-micron stuff all the way to .03.

Also, be sure and have him send you a honing guide -- (less than $10 last time I looked) -- because holding those puppies at an exact angle by hand is rather difficult.

Very nice. Imagine how fine those shavings will be when you really get the plane and your technique dialed in! :D

Get rid of my Festool sanders?! :eek: I think NOT! :)

Yeah, I think they may just multiply...Kinda' like bunny rabbits! :D

A whole bunch of them from eBay? No, not yet. I still need to learn what to look for and how to bring them "back to life" before doing something like that! :rolleyes:

Already have a guide. Bought one a couple years ago to try and sharpen up a couple of my chisels. (Did pretty good, too, even though they're just cheapie Marples!) :)

Already put an order in with Joel. :D

Now, for the last bit: How can I get finer than see-through?! :confused: :cool:

[Tom LaRussa]

Get rid of my Festool sanders?! :eek: I think NOT! :)
Hey, a sander is just a sander, no matter how nicely made it is. It tears at the wood fibers, (rather than cutting, like that little LN beauty), and packs the wood pores with dust and grit.

So don't sweat it, when it happens I'm sure Festool will let you trade them in on something else. :p



I still need to learn what to look for and how to bring them "back to life" before doing something like that!
Hmm...

I ain't no Bob Smalser, but I've cleaned up a few of these things now, so this sounds like something I could handle.



Already have a guide. Bought one a couple years ago to try and sharpen up a couple of my chisels. (Did pretty good, too, even though they're just cheapie Marples!)
Hey, nothing wrong with Marples. They are very nice chisels. Besides, as Bob S says, it's not the chisel so much as the one doing the chiseling -- or something like that. ;)




Already put an order in with Joel.
Good lad.



Now, for the last bit: How can I get finer than see-through?! :confused: :cool:
There is see-through, and there is see-through, and there is see-through,etc.

See-through: I can see my finger through this oak (maple, cherry, etc) shaving;

See-through: I can read the newspaper through these shavings of black walnut.

See-Through: I can read a pocket bible -- full text version -- through these shavings of cocobolo, rosewood, or bubinga...

SEE-THROUGH: I can read the fine print from my credit card statement through these shavings of Macassar Ebony.

SEE-THROUGH: (Japanese Grand Master Level): I can't actually see the shavings without a very bright light and a magnifying glass.

[Tom LaRussa]

Just a last note. Tom, Alan, Bob, and others know what to look for, and they buy planes that I wouldn't lookat right now. When I have tried buying on ebay,(yes, I have bid on a couple or so) the ones that I have bid on sold in the $50.00 to $60.00 range. With a new blade they were getting higher than I wanted to go for an older Stanley. If you know someone who could be a guide it would probably really help.

Next, I just wanted to post something that I cobbled together for my scary sharp stuff. Hopefully, it will inspire you to do something really cool that you can share, and I can toss this one and start over. (The metal plate is for a yet to be realized experiment into diamond paste sharpening.)
Hi Lloyd,

First off, I love your scary sharp supply cabinet! I need to make myself a copy as soon as possible, as my stuff is currently sitting in a very haphazard pile which is stuffed into a metal-mesh cubby hole thingie. :(

Second, I am no expert on tools, but I'll be happy to share what little I know about buying Stanley's on eBay. Gimme a little while to write it up and I'll post it later today -- unless time gets away from me, as it usually does, in which case it will take a bit longer. :o

[John Miliunas]

There is see-through, and there is see-through, and there is see-through,etc.

See-through: I can see my finger through this oak (maple, cherry, etc) shaving;

See-through: I can read the newspaper through these shavings of black walnut.

See-Through: I can read a pocket bible -- full text version -- through these shavings of cocobolo, rosewood, or bubinga...

SEE-THROUGH: I can read the fine print from my credit card statement through these shavings of Macassar Ebony.

SEE-THROUGH: (Japanese Grand Master Level): I can't actually see the shavings without a very bright light and a magnifying glass.

Tom, you crack me up! :D OK, but just so you know, I have a hard time reading, even without a piece of wood in front of me! (Just ask Dale T.! :D ):rolleyes: :cool: