Words of wisdom for a complete NOOB?

[Brian Mills]

Hello all! Since high school shop class I've loved making things out of wood. Having said that the most difficult thing I've tackled is garage work furnature until now....

I've decided to make my son a bed for his 4 year old birthday. For me it's a huge project. I have the design planned, purchased the wood and thanks to a friend planned and edged all the boards. I have all the boards ripped to width and rough cut to length.

I'm at the stage now of cutting to exact length and mortising and tenon. And to be honest I'm scared. I have about 20% extra material but some of the main boards I don't have any backups as they are long. Oh and did I mention I only have a week to put this together.... :eek: Luckily (and unluckily) he mainly lives with his mother so as long as I have the bed assembled by next Friday I can sand, stain and finish up the drawers later.

I'm realistic that I'm not expecting this to be perfect but I do want it to be nice and solid. Hopefully it is something that can be handed down in the family. I know that a lofty goal for a NOOB but I'm pretty handy and think I can do it.

My question is, do you have any words of wisdom when building beds and secondly and probably more importantly does anyone have any words of wisdom when it comes to mortise and tenons?

I think the thing that concerns me the most is getting them centered for one and secondly getting the faces to fit flush.

I just built a jig found out of a Shop Notes mag and plan to practice as much as I can before I start in on the actual bed boards but I'm running out of time. If the project goes longer I guess it's not the end of the world but I really don't want to let him down either.

Thanks for any input!

[Victor Robinson]

How are you planning on mortising and making the tenons? That will help folks give you more specific advice...

[Brian Mills]

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h176/millsusaf/Owens%20Bed/RouterJig.jpg

I've made this jig. It seamed pretty straight forward until I made a test cut and found that not only was I not centered but that the mortise angled. I'm going to make a gauge piece out of 3/4 stock to help with the center issue but I'm not totally sure how to correct the angle issue.

Thanks

[Dave MacArthur]

It sounds like you already have your plans, and I'm not sure if this advice is too late but
1. For the long rails on the bed joining to the headboard and/or footboard, you might consider NOT doing any joint and instead using hardware. They have two items, a bedrail hanger and a hidden bed-bolt, that will allow you to hook these up very solidly with a screwdriver (joint made with a router and drill). The key thing here is you can disassemble it for moving later. No one likes a bed that can't be broken down.

2. For the headboard and footboard, which is where I'd guess you're looking to tennon some top and bottom rails into posts with mortises, there is a lot to be said for making a post by gluing up three boards and leaving gaps in the middle board to create the mortise. Same way you make benchdog holes in a workbench. You can make the posts out of better wood than you can often find in large size, and the glue-up allows you to offset grain to make it very stable. I'm sure there are 50 threads here on making legs/stretchers for work benches which are exactly this technique.

3. The tenon can be made on the table saw. You can watch Norm make tons of them in various episodes.

4. If you are planning on making drawers as it sounds, then they don't need any tenon/mortise as other joinery methods provide sufficiently good joints especially in the thinner wood of drawers, dovetail or locking miter (easiest), or even just rabbets and dadoes.

5. For the structure that surrounds the drawers, the face frame I'd guess you'd put under the bed rails, I would again point out that a giant bed-sized cabinet that a mattress sits on might have size issues later. Such a cabinet doesn't need m&T strength in the joints, but if you wanted to do them in the rail/stile face frame I would use a router to plunge mortises and then use floating tenons. Actually I'd use pocket screws ;) However, what I've noticed when looking at bed plans with under-mattress storage is that usually the system is just two or three boxes that are screwed together to provide a base, which allows you to disassemble and move the big thing later.
6. There is a project in the projects forum from a guy who built a nice kids bed in 2007 that I liked, and he wrote some notes on his joinery.

Good luck!

[Paul Atkins]

Always cut the long boards first.------

[Russell Sansom]

You can draw bore the tenons and not glue them on the long rails so the bed can be taken apart.
Rails do NOT have to be centered on the posts...they only need to be the same distance in from the edge of each post. Near the center is probably good, depending on you design, but precise centering is unnecessary.
Tenons themselves don't have to be perfect. As a beginner you should make them oversized and take them down. I would use a block plane and a paring chisel ( I work mostly by hand ) or simply a shoulder plane. You can whittle, use a rasp, rotary sander ( take your time! ) or take it back to the table saw for another very fine pass. If your tenons come out undersized, it is ok to laminate a piece of file card or veneer to the tenon to bring it back out to the proper thickness.
The shoulders of the tenons should be as perfect as you can make them because that's where the squareness and the accuracy in length come from in a mortise and tenon joint. You can almost guarantee the precision required by cutting a line around the periphery of the rails at each end where the shoulder will be. An exacto knife and a try-square will work well. If you cut the tenons shoulders using a crosscut on a table saw, make your first cut a hair short and the line will tell you how much further you need to go. I know many popular TV woodworkers don't do this, but they are "simplifying" for one reason or another.
Finally, Keep as many long offcuts as you can from your dimensioned rails. Use these to test cuts and to practice. I always make a couple spares and dimension them along with all the other parts of a project for this very purpose.

As your woodworking career proceeds your means of doing this will change until you're set in your ways and you look forward to it. To get to that point, you have to make a few dozen. If you're really insecure, grab some scale balsa lumber from your nearest hobby shop and use a razor saw and an exacto knife to build a scale model. It's amazing how well this works.
If time pressures are too heavy ( doing this in one week is probably too ambitious ), consider clamping the rails to the posts and calling it a prototype until your house guest leaves for a couple more weeks.
Good luck

[Jim Heffner]

Brian, the other posters here, have given you some good advice thus far...
so I won't add too much more.
( 1) If your jig is like the picture you posted....I think that the wider the fence faces are equals more stability for the router and overall better results.
(2) In the picture it appears that the workpiece is, in my opinion positioned
too high above the work bench. I would have that workpiece lower in the vise
just so the router jig barely clears the work surface. The lower the jig rides
across the piece the more stable it would be and less chance of rocking side
to side and causing a screwed up mortise.
(3)If all this is still too new to you to be comfortable working with....just
purchase the bed rail hardware( metal type) and use it....will work as expected and no problem.

[Tom Jones III]

My experience has been to make practice cuts. Practice that mortise and the tenon on scrap that is exactly the same size (except for the length of the long rails). Keep practicing until you get the practice cut perfect every time. The type of wood you use mostly does not matter for your practice cuts. I commonly use the cheapest pine 2x4 (or whatever size) for my practice.

When I made beds for my kids, I made a practice mortise in a piece that was the same dimensions as the post but only about 1' long. I also practiced the tenon on an offcut of the main rail so it was exactly the same piece of wood as the real rail. Once the practice pieces fit perfectly I locked down the machines until the real cuts were made. In order to do this you will have to plan ahead and get all of your mortises pieces and all of your rail pieces ready to go so that you can cut all of the joinery at the same time.

[Brian Mills]

Thanks for all the replies.

I am using rail hardware for the rails. The mortise and tenon will only be for the head/foot boards, posts and the stiles between the rails for the drawers.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h176/millsusaf/Owens%20Bed/Plans.jpg

Here is the plan I drew up (it's not to scale). It has changed slightly mostly because i realized I needed stiles on the ends of the foot board for the drawers to close against. Don't pay attention to the individual board dimensions either as they are almost all wrong.

I'm hoping to start hitting it hard tonight after I take back my son. Hopefully I can get in enough practice to before I start on the real thing.

ETA: The drawer on the foot board is just a small bottom hinged drawer (its no where near scale in the drawing). Think kitchen sink sponge, ring, scrubber holder.

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/images/kitchen_misc/ras-6572-11-11-52.jpg

[Myk Rian]

Make the fixed and adjustable fences taller, and wider.

[Scott Vantine]

My advice is to always measure twice(if not more) to make sure that everything is right before you start cutting! And don't rush yourself, think each thing through as you do it, and it will come together beautifully! I should know, this week I just tackled my first M&T joints, and also Bridle joints...they came out great!

[Brian Mills]

My advice is to always measure twice(if not more) to make sure that everything is right before you start cutting! And don't rush yourself, think each thing through as you do it, and it will come together beautifully! I should know, this week I just tackled my first M&T joints, and also Bridle joints...they came out great!

Scott,

What method did you use to make your M&Ts? Any tips you can share since we are in the same boat?

Thanks

[Scott Vantine]

Scott,

What method did you use to make your M&Ts? Any tips you can share since we are in the same boat?

Thanks

I cut the tenon on the TS using a shop jig to hold the stock square and vertical. The mortises were drilled and then chiseled out.

[Lee Koepke]

label your parts as you cut them. i use a piece of chalk, sands out easier.

sand your parts before assembly.

even though you are on a short time frame, please dont hurry. it affects both the quality and safety.

remember, small flaws in the finish product only prove that it was hand-made, not production work!

[Brian Mills]

I tried some more mortises today. They were not pretty. :mad:

Using a guide I was at least able to get them semi centered however I was not able to make a consistent mortise using my jig.

I'm going to have to go to plan Z I'm afraid....I'm just not sure what plan Zed is yet.

[johnny means]

I build children's beds for a living and can say without a doubt, bed brackets are your friends. I know, I know mortise and tenon is the true craftman's method, but sometimes when results need to be dependable and timely the KISS rule comes into play.

I prefer these http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=9364&ss=2df71cbc-9dfe-4859-920e-ffc72a1b8377

[Joe Shinall]

I build children's beds for a living and can say without a doubt, bed brackets are your friends. I know, I know mortise and tenon is the true craftman's method, but sometimes when results need to be dependable and timely the KISS rule comes into play.

I prefer these http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=9364&ss=2df71cbc-9dfe-4859-920e-ffc72a1b8377

+1 on those. I have built 2 beds using similar hardware from Rockler.

If you have about 200-300 bucks and a local dealer, have you ever thought of a mortising machine? Don't know if you will be getting into doing a lot of mortise/tenon work after this, but it really helps me out. Everyone has their favorite way of doing M/T joints and mine is definitely mortising machine for mortises and table saw for tenons.

[Brian Mills]

I'm thinking about it. I hate to spend more money on tools for this project but at the same time I have to have a repeatable method of making these mortises and I need it ASAP.

I'm definitely using rail mounting hardware for the rails.

I actually found a mortising machine on craigslist for a good price....I might have to get it.

[Russell Smallwood]

Two words...

Don't rush.

I just built two sets of bunk beds for my kids and it took about 5 times as long as I thought it would in the end. I didn't really mind, I've been through this before and expected it. When i was first starting out I would've started to feel some stress at my approaching deadline and started making mistakes and taking risks in order to meet it.

From a tactical standpoint... Make sure to measure everything from a single point of reference on all the parts. For instance, when measuring and marking for the rail mortises, make sure to measure all the parts from,.. say... the bottom (both bottom and top of mortises). It seems like a trivial thing, but it makes a big difference in the end when minor mistakes start to compound into large ones.

Lastly, enjoy the process. When I started out, I was WAY (did I say WAY) too focused on the end result and not focused enough on the process (see paragraph 1). Force yourself to stop and learn / sharpen / align / build a jig when appropriate. Time marches on, you will finish the project but if you rush, all you'll have is some poorly made furniture and potentially some minor/major cuts and bruises, if you go slowly, you will have some really nice, heirloom quality furniture and a bunch of new jigs, sharp tools, and a well-aligned shop to use for the next project.

[Brian Mills]

This project had taken M U C H longer than I anticipated but over it is going well.

I did make a pretty stupid mistake and am now looking for a little help. I rounded over an edge I shouldn't have and now I need to move it back out.....if possible. Unfortunately it had already been glued up when I make the mistake.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h176/millsusaf/Owens%20Bed/CIMG7785.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h176/millsusaf/Owens%20Bed/CIMG7786.jpg

I rounded over the lower board when I shouldn't have. Is there any way to fix this given what I have?

If not I'm prepared to leave it as is since it's my first project and call it a day but I'm hoping there is some way to make it better.

Thanks

[John M Wilson]

If this is going to be a painted surface, regular old automotive "bondo" works surprisingly well. If this was intended to be stained, so that the wood grain shows through, you might be able to mortise out a rectangular slot that you could precisely cut and fit a "dutchman" (small plug of wood). If you fit it well, match the grain, & sand it flush, it won't be perfect, but it will be unobtrusive. Good luck!

[Brian Mills]

I have the bed mostly finished. In fact he was able to sleep in it the other day! :) His smile made all the issues and hard work worth it.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs529.ash1/31083_390567365846_568810846_4101833_7966667_n.jpg

Now I need to work on the drawers. I've never done a drawer before but know that dovetails are the preferred strongest joint (at least from what I've read). However I can't really afford to purchase any more tools at this point so I'm looking at other alternatives.

Can I do lock joints effectively out of 1/2" Baltic Ply? I'm thinking there would not be enough meat left on the corners to make the drawer strong enough.

I guess the other method would be box joints.

Which is best?

Thanks

Brian

[Dan Karachio]

I'm not seeing it suggested anywhere (and may be too late), but as a relative newbie I always always have extra pieces and make test cuts. Once you have the test piece(s) set up, your jigs/saws/router... is set and there you go.