Need help choosing a circular saw...

[ben grossman]

Hello everyone! I would like some opinions on buying a new circular saw. I do not have a table saw right now, and would like to get a nice circular saw that can do a lot of table saw tricks. Mostly I am going to use it for cutting down sheet goods, small crosscuts and the like. However, I have a few projects on the list that will require solid wood tops (dresser, night stand, etc), that I may be cutting the ends straight with so there are times where it might need a lot of oomph. I have an older Skil saw that I bought used, but it is going to go on a garage sale. I tried to cut off one 2x4 with it. It could not make it through, so I put it away and my Bosch jigsaw has been doing the heavy work ever since.

The saws that are on the top of my list are the Makita 5007MGA (and maybe it’s cousin the 5008MGA), the Bosch 1677M, and the Milwaukee 6394-21. The Makita seems to get really high praise as being usable as a woodworking saw, very precise and very durable—some say it’s even made in the USA (haven’t verified). The Bosch is a worm drive, and I think for the occasional top-cutting sessions that may be advantageous. It also may be advantageous for large panel cutting with the blade orientation (so I can walk beside it—of sorts).

I am also open to recommendations, particularly for other Makita or Bosch units. I hear good things about Makita and want to try them out. I have the Bosch jigsaw that has been awesome for me, and a 15-amp Bosch reciprocating saw that will go through just about anything without flinching.

Also, will a 7 ¼” saw do ok, or should I go with a larger model (like the Milwaukee)?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Well, IMO, your best buy would be a Skil wormdrive. That has been the staple of the construction industry. Good balance, no frills. A lifetime saw. It has shortcomings. But, 1) you can see the cut (any leftie you can see the cut) 2) the saw is smaller than the shoe, so when you use a guide and clamps, the saw won't hit the clamps, no matter where they are.
Did I mention that it has really good balance? It has way more power that you could ever use.

[Joe Shinall]

+10 on the worm drive. I have the Milwaukee 6577-20. My best friend has a Skil and it is just as good side by side. The Milwaukee is cheaper on Amazon but I do not know what their prices are like in the store. I bought mine barely used so I only paid like 75 bucks for it at the time.

And you can't go wrong with Makita saws in my opinion. I have the Makita SCMS, jigsaw, and reciprocating saw and I will buy Makita all day when given the chance.

[Van Huskey]

I find a wormy saw too heavy for non-construction work but for HD work the Skil MAG SHD77M is hard to beat.

For a more woodworking oriented saw I would get the Bosch 1677M though either of the other two on the OPs list are basically just as good. I would probably get the one of the three I got the best deal on.

[Jesse Wilson]

Milwaukee 6931-21, I looked at the worm drives and holy crap are they heavy. If you would be using it with any regularity or for any extended time I woudl definitely go handle a few in person before you committed to one. Just my .02

[ben grossman]

Thanks for the input everyone! It sounds like my list is pretty solid, any way I go will be OK. I will definitely check out the Skill and Milwaukee worm drive. I have seen a few Bosch and Skil saws on Craig's List lately as well.

I am most concerned about accuracy. I have wondered as well about the weight of the worm drive. However, since I have my jigsaw that does really well, maybe I should go for the worm drive so I have the power and use the jigsaw for "lighter" work? My only complaint about the jigsaw is that it is easy to let it drift off a straightedge, but that's not much of an issue for most crosscuts and such.

I was going to just order online, but I should probably try and find them locally to at least play with first.

[Dan Clark]

If you want the best saw for breaking down sheet goods and making long straight cuts, nothing beats a rail-guided saw for precision. I use a Festool TS55 with several of their rails. I've very happy with it. If you cutting a lot of 8/4+ material, the TS75 might better. (The vast majority of people don't need it.)

Some videos:
General - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1Tc49QMNY
TS55 cutting 8/4 hardwood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mua2mEtzIKE
Furniture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVvx4VtPeGw

I also have one of the current Festool jigsaws with a rail attachment. It's very accurate and does not wander at all on a guide rail. For the ultimate jigsaw, take a look of the new Festool Carvex's YouTube - Festool CARVEX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MWgnodPx5k). It has multiple, quick-replace feet, including one that fits on a rail. I.e. the foot is a rail-guide foot rather than being an attachment like used on the current model.

Bosch makes a Jigsaw that is supposed to be every bit good as a Festool except that it doesn't have a rail attachment AFAIK.

For rough construction like framing, I'm looking at a Makita Hypoid (worm-drive) saw. It's not quite as powerful as some of the other worm-drives, but it has nice features, is well designed, and has a sealed worm-drive mechanism.

Good luck on your decision.

Regards,

Dan.

[Curt Harms]

Here's an interesting choice:
http://www.reconditionedsales.com/Hitachi_C7YAK_7-14_Dust_Reducing_Circular_Saw_%28Reconditioned%29_ __i259.aspx The saw above sells for around $200 new retail, I believe.

Circle saws with built-in dust collection are rare and the Porter Cable right hand model that had it seems to be discontinued. The left hand P-C seems to be available for now and has built in dust collection. http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11000

[ben grossman]

I have seriously considered the Festool or DeWalt track saws, and they are still a consideration. However, if I can get similar results with a less expensive (but still high quality) tool that is more versatile, I would like to do that. No doubt the Festool and DeWalt are tops at what they do, and I still may consider it. I am not looking to cheap out, as it is something I plan to keep until it wears out.

As I am gathering tools still though, I would rather put the difference into hand tools (and that is my intent), if that is an acceptable alternative. I am going to go look at the Festool locally, though... it might just sway me!

It still seems like a tough choice. I might have to just go handle them in the stores if I can to make my choice. I looked briefly at the Makita worm drive, and it looks outstanding as well.

[Michael Peet]

I have seriously considered the Festool or DeWalt track saws, and they are still a consideration.

The Festool track saws and accessories are on sale at Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/Search/Search.aspx?query=festool+sale). From what I understand, sales on Festool stuff are rare. No affiliation with FS or WC.

Mike

[Dan Karachio]

As a Festool owner, though I love the TS 75, without the MFT/3 bench it may not do everything you want and the price is getting way up there. Still, something to consider maybe? The dust collection is fantastic, but now we are adding even more for a vac! So, with that much $$$ you could get a very nice tablesaw AND a circular saw. Before I bought my Festool saw (and bench) I found plenty of clever ways to cut with a circular saw. Tommy on This Old House has every Festool imaginable, but very often whips together an instant jig and uses a good old circular saw to do all sorts of tricks. So, here I am posting essentially nothing of value for you!

[ben grossman]

I was heavily in search of a good contractor saw--and it was driving me nuts trying to find the right one. I was at the point of buying a $500 or so table saw. However, we are renters and probably won't be buying for a couple years (though we've already discussed having a small shop or space to build one). I have a nice big garage now where I could have a table saw and everything else (even have 220v), but that may not be the case in the future.

Because of that, and knowing that if I bought a contractor saw I would probably upgrade in the future (cabinet saw or Saw Stop), I decided I should get a bandsaw instead (after a few more projects), and get a nice circular saw to fit in the mean time. If my truck fits in the garage, a bandsaw should as well. I can do dadoes, rabbits and box joints with either hand tools or the DeWalt router set I already have. My last garage was an oversized one stall garage, and I had a small Craftsman table saw that I didn't like and got rid of--but it fit next to the truck and probably takes up more floor space than a good bandsaw.

The Festool stuff is pretty spendy, but I don't question the quality. If the Bosch WD saw would work, I could put the extra towards my list of hand tools (planes, saws, chisels, sharpening tools). The downside is some reviews say it's not square, and I would have to possibly shim it to get it to run. Not a big deal to save a few hundred for a little adjusting.

I already have a nice Ridgid shop vac, so I am set there. However, without a true dust collection setup I already make sure and wear proper protective gear while in the shop... including a dust mask. It is amazing how much dust can be created by a reciprocating saw!

[Van Huskey]

I have seriously considered the Festool or DeWalt track saws, and they are still a consideration.

If this is a serious consideration jump on the Festool now, save the 10% that you will likely never get again. You could also order from Bob Marino (a forum sponser) get free shipping and save tax depending on where you live.

I would say that even with a track saw I can't imagine not have a "standard" circular saw around.

Further if you are planning to use the saw mainly for sheet goods then I would NOT look at a worm drive. They are heavy and not as easy to keep against the straight edge. If that was my main goal I would probably consider a smaller than 7.25" saw.

[Jim O'Dell]

Your best bet might be to get the circular saw that you like best, and some guides for doing straight cuts. Doesn't have to be something that the saw is built to fit on, though those are probably more accurate. You can get some clamp on guides that you just run the edge of the saw's base against. Easy enough to make sure you set the guide straight with a good framing square. There are some guides that you replace the base on the circular saw with a special base that then sits into a guide. Can even get bases to use the same set up with your router. Lots of possibilities.
I built my first stereo/TV cabinet with 2X12s, ship-lap boards, a Craftsman circular saw, a drill and a hammer and nails. Wasn't beautiful, but it held all the equipment and records safely for about 12 years. Jim.

[ben grossman]

Jim, I have a Swanson aluminum straight edge I bought not too long ago after using some not-so-straight boards as an edge guide, and it works pretty well. I actually would like to make some hardboard guides for the jigsaw/circular saw specifically for each. That way there is less measuring required (for cut and for guide placement), and the saw would ride the hardboard instead of the work.

My next project is a set of bookshelves. I downloaded a plan for some nice bookshelves that I am going to modify slightly. The plans require a table saw for a couple cuts, but I figured out how do do everything except that one cut with a saw and a router. I am either going to change the trim that requires the table saw (maybe buy some premade), or leave it off entirely.

I think it will work for my situation, and allows me to not get too deep into big power tools before I gain more experience.

[Jim O'Dell]

Ben, is that one of the 1/8" thick long rulers? or is it thicker? I have a 5' aluminum ruler that is 1/8" and I wouldn't dare use it as a guide. The clamp down guides are much thicker and won't distort under side pressure as easily. Here is a picture from Rockler's site on a 50" unit on sale for 29.99. 148336 Get on Rockler's email list, Hartville Tool, etc. I see Rockler adds all the time with them on sale. Different lengths are available. Jim.

[ben grossman]

No, it isn't the regular rulers. It is actually one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Swanson-CG100-100-Inch-Cutting-Guide/dp/B000IOCHWW

I didn't pay near that much for it though, and found it at Lowe's. I used it with my jigsaw to cut that cheap particle board (big chips) for a set of 2x4 storage shelves in my garage. It worked just fine, unless you let the jigsaw run off the line.

I have looked at guides like what you are showing, and would like to get something like that as they are still far more substantial. I will look into that, and definitely get on the mailing lists.

[Dan Clark]

Ben,

The benefit of Festool is not merely the quality. It's a paradigm shift to a modular shop that can be quickly set up, used at a worksite with little or no dust, and then broken down for storage. Portability is a big part of this. Dust collection is a big part of this. Components that fit into an overall system is a big part of this.

And who is this designed for? Tradesmen who work on site is one big group. The other group? Guys like you and me. Guys who write things like this:

...would like to get a nice circular saw that can do a lot of table saw tricks. Mostly I am going to use it for cutting down sheet goods, small crosscuts and the like.and this:

I am most concerned about accuracy.
...
My only complaint about the jigsaw is that it is easy to let it drift off a straightedge, but that's not much of an issue for most crosscuts and such.and this:

However, we are renters and probably won't be buying for a couple years (though we've already discussed having a small shop or space to build one). I have a nice big garage now where I could have a table saw and everything else (even have 220v), but that may not be the case in the future.
and this:

...
That way there is less measuring required (for cut and for guide placement), and the saw would ride the hardboard instead of the work.and this:


...
It worked just fine, unless you let the jigsaw run off the line.While the Festool quality is nice, the reason many of us buy them is because they fit our needs. You described your needs. Obviously, you can integrate your own system to fit your needs. This is a pretty fair amount of money and time. Or...

You can get a system that is already designed for someone like you (and me). This second option was my choice. Now I spend far more time using my Festool system to finish my work and far less time integrating disparate components into a system.

Good luck with your choice.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. When you go to a Festool dealer, don't just handle them. Ask the dealer to let you try them out. The local Woodcraft has a training room. They will let you take their demo Festools back there and try them out. Use an TS55 on an MFT with the Festool vac attached. Find a piece of plywood say 24 inches long. Flip down the MFT guide rail and adjust to the right height. Slap the TS55 on the rail and cut. If the TS55 has the fine tooth blade, you should see a perfectly straight, glue-up ready cut.

[ben grossman]

Dan, you certainly make some pretty good points. I think there are a couple of different stores in my area that sell them, I was planning on checking them out. I have read good things about them, but I won't be able to check them out until later next week.

Does the TS55 use a proprietary saw blade? I thought I read that somewhere. I am just curious.

The cost of the Festool is just a little hard to chew when there are so many items on the list... :D

[Mark Kosmowski]

The EZ Smart system is a guide system that allows you to use (almost) any saw. Definitely get a saw with a brake. Consider an 8 1/4" saw if you like the EZ Smart system. Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=137837) are some pictures of me using the EZ Smart to rip some rough lumber.

[Tim Mahoney]

I have a 6 1/2" and a 7 1/2" "Skill". Both are over 35 yrs old. I keep them up on a shelf for looks now. I've used Milwaukee for many yrs. I have the 7 1/4" heavy duty with the tilt lock handle. Some saws have such bad handle placement that your hand will tire if using it all day. I don't like the wormdrive saws, never did, too heavy with too much torque for the finish jobs. Some guys swear by them. The rough framers like them because they can stand up a sheet of plywood and cut right on down but that is why they are rough framers. If you have the room, start saving for a good table saw.

[Dan Clark]

Dan, you certainly make some pretty good points. I think there are a couple of different stores in my area that sell them, I was planning on checking them out. I have read good things about them, but I won't be able to check them out until later next week.

Does the TS55 use a proprietary saw blade? I thought I read that somewhere. I am just curious.

The cost of the Festool is just a little hard to chew when there are so many items on the list... :D
Yep, Festool tools are pricey. Of course, you get what ... :)

Regarding proprietary blades, that was true at one time. No longer. Tenryu makes a range of blades for the TS55 and TS75: http://www.tenryu.com/ps.html. I have a couple, but haven't had a chance to use them. Brice Burrell posted about the Tenry blades here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1319411&postcount=4. I'm very happy with my Festool blades though. For OEM blades, they are excellent.

I have a Tenryu 80T blade for my Kapex. It is my go-to blade for fine cuts. It the cuts are incredible. My second choice for the Kapex is a tie - the Forrest Chopmaster for fine cuts but the Festool 60T is very close and much better for general cutting. The Festool 80T held last place.

FYI... The Festool jigsaw uses standard T-shank blades. The Festool jigsaw blades are easily the equal of other blades, but I also use Lenox (a bunch) and Bosch (a few) blades.

Regards,

Dan.

[Darl Bundren]

I have some EZSmart rails, too, and they work very well. Not really any DC on the saw I have, but it cuts perfectly straight exactly where you want it to.

The initial setup may slow you up some (affixing the base to the plate of your saw), but once it's done, you can remove the insert and use the saw without the rails in a couple of seconds. Plus, you get antichip with the insert.

I like all my Festool stuff, but their guide rail stuff was out of my budget.

I also like Dino's Smart Table. Low tech, but good. I am not talking about the powerbench deal; I own the one with the wooden supports that slide out in plastic tracks.

[Zack Teal]

i second thinking about the festool tracksaw they are expencive but you get what you pay for

[David epstein]

The EZ Smart system is a guide system that allows you to use (almost) any saw. Definitely get a saw with a brake. Consider an 8 1/4" saw if you like the EZ Smart system. Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=137837) are some pictures of me using the EZ Smart to rip some rough lumber.


Mark, I own the same system with the Makita 5007 mga.
The dust collection with the ez dust port and shield is second to none.
$15.00 Freud Diablo blades and life is good.

To the original poster.
A. Buy a circular saw with electric brake.
B. If you go with a plunge saw (festool-Dewalt-Makita...)
you're limiting yourself to the track use only.
B. But if you do...the Dewalt offers 2 cutting edges and antikickback protection. The Makita offers more power. The Festool more assecories.

Making cabinet components with a circular you will need:
A. Good squaring device.
B. Good antichip protection.
C. Measuring system or a good story stick.
D. A good cutting table.
E. Dust collection if you work inside.
F. Dado work? The new Super Router kit from eureka is universal to all tracks and guide systems and with additional bases you can use it with saws, routers, planers, drills and jig saws.
Very Universal and versatile kit.

If you don't want to go the tracksaw way, make a zero clearance shoe for your saw, 2 story sticks and... have fun.

[Larry Frank]

About 6 months ago, I went through the same process looking at circular saws. I swore I would not buy the expensive Festool. I did anyway and bougth the TS55 mainly for breaking down sheet goods. It is one of the best tools that I have purchased and can cut the hardwood or any plywood with no splinters. I really like the tracksaw features after using a straight edge for years. I would never go back now.

[Mark Kosmowski]

Mark, I own the same system with the Makita 5007 mga.
The dust collection with the ez dust port and shield is second to none.
$15.00 Freud Diablo blades and life is good.

I forgot to mention that I am running a DeWalt 7 1/4" with a brake - I don't remember the model number offhand. When ripping some rough 10/4 (actual rough dimension) lumber before surfacing, I needed to make 2 passes (make one not all the way through cut and then flip over to complete the cut). Being rough lumber, the cuts didn't quite meet and I needed to tap the offcut with a mallet and try not to drop it on my toes.

[ben grossman]

Thank you everyone for your help, I’ve received FAR more information than I expected! There are so many good ideas here, it is almost overwhelming! Now I just need to figure out what other tool purchases I need in the near future, versus utility of the systems. I had my eye on a Rikon 10-325, which this will probably push out for a while. Maybe I can look into a 10” Rikon instead.

Woodcraft has the DeWalt kit with two rails for $600, and I can add the router attachment for $60. I also appreciate the flexibility of the EZ System, which is similar cost since I have to buy the saw anyway. It also seems one could, with some ingenuity, cobble up a reasonable home system for much less—but the right idea hasn’t struck me. Time is money too, I guess.

Again, I really appreciate the info, really a lot more than I anticipated! I need to make a decision pretty soon, because I have some bookshelves to build—or the girlfriend might kill me (har har)!

[Carbide Processors]

Hi there,

When it comes to picking out the right saw blade, you have to get all the information you can get. At Carbide Processors not only do we sell high quality saw blades from Tenryu, Systimatic and more, we give you the information you need to compare, buy and mantain your saw blades. The following link takes you to our site on an article about picking out the right saw blade for your use. Hope this helps!

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Types-of-Saw-Blades.html

Megan Pahl
3847 S Union Ave
Tacoma, WA
98409
253-476-1338

[Zack Teal]

go with the festool there expensive but you get what you pay for. if i had the money i would get one in a heart beat.

[Stuart Gardner]

The saws that are on the top of my list are the Makita 5007MGA (and maybe it’s cousin the 5008MGA), the Bosch 1677M, and the Milwaukee 6394-21.

Also, will a 7 ¼” saw do ok, or should I go with a larger model (like the Milwaukee)?

I own the Milwaukee, which is a 7 1/4 inch saw. And I love it. The smoothness of the plate is a real plus for not scratching fine sheet goods while cutting. But none of these saw will even come close to replacing a table saw. To do that, you probably have to go to a Dewalt Tracksaw DWS520CKor Festool Guide Saw System. Both of which will set you back quite a bit. I'd love to get a Festool. They look really great.

[Noah Bledstein]

I have a very old Skill worm drive for heavy work and the Porter Cable Saw Boss with a 6" blade for sheet goods and lighter work. With a 50" blade guide the Saw Boss is perfect for sizing sheet goods.