End grain to end grain

[Brian D Anderson]

Ok . . . I'm perplexed.

I'm looking to make a cutting board similar to this design:

http://www.designercuttingboards.com/proddetail.php?prod=43

http://www.designercuttingboards.com/prodimages/designer_wood_cutting_boards_expansion_giant.jpg

This is listed as flat grain (not edge or end grain).

From what I can tell, this is a big old end grain to end grain glue up.

So it got me thinking . . . can you get away with end grain glue ups? Conventional wisdom says to avoid them at all costs. Use dowels, biscuits etc. But how strong does a cutting board like this need to be?

But what happens if you do just glue them up? Are there special steps that could be taken to ensure the strongest joint possible?

Just wondering . . .

-Brian

[Frank Drew]

Brian,

There are a lot of end grain joints, but there are also just as many side grain (long grain) glue joints which is where the strength comes from. Only time will tell, of course, if that design would stand up for a long time, with the repeated wet-dry cycles that a typical cutting board gets.

[Brian D Anderson]

Yeah, the first glue up would be long grain, and be no problems. But the second glue up (the vertical strips in the picture) is all end grain to end grain.

I'm just wondering if it is strong enough. I wouldn't make a table or chair with end grain joints glued together, but maybe the cutting board doesn't see as much abuse.

That design could be done with end grain, though it would be a huge pain as you would need 7 or 8 different thicknesses of boards.

-Brian

[Lee Schierer]

Just because you can build it doesn't mean it will hold up to even normal use. If that cutting board is really wood and not a plastic laminate overlaid material then the end grain to end grain joints are still going to be the weakest and most likely to fail if the board gets wet or is dropped.

[Eric DeSilva]

Why on God's green earth would you make that board as a long grain board and not an end grain board? Above and beyond the end grain gluing question, end grain is much friendlier on your knife edges. Yikes.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I agree on end grain showing. Furtermore, when you chop on the side grain, it can create slice marks, splinters and large chunks of grain falling out. Looks worse than endgrain just after a few days of use. End grain is not attractive to begin with, but it looks way better than chopped up side grain IMO.

That being said, if I were to do end grain joints, I would biscuit them at a minimum. Maybe double biscuit. End grain to end grain is just a failure waiting to happen.

[Robert Reece]

And at $350, I doubt many have been sold, so not likely to find out a real life expectancy. I doubt it would hold up since I have a cutting board (not made by me) that I repair about once a year and it is a long grain glue up.

[Leo Devera]

I'm guessing that they ran some dowels/biscuts/splines in there to hold those joints together.

[Terry Beadle]

I wonder if that board is put together with epoxy and not a wood glue. That would account for the irreverence to the end grain to end grain rule. I also vote that it's not a good way to make a cutting board. It should be the end grain standing up to the knife edge and therefore the long grain exposed to the glue.

I have made cutting boards out of hickory with the long grain exposed to the knife edge but they don't hold a candle to wear on a end grain cutting board.

[Frank Drew]

Why on God's green earth would you make that board as a long grain board and not an end grain board? Above and beyond the end grain gluing question, end grain is much friendlier on your knife edges. Yikes.

Yes, end grain cutting boards stand up better than long grain ones, but let's not get all Taliban about it -- there are literally square miles of hard maple long grain cutting surfaces in restaurants, food shops and homes across this country and they last a long, long time. Long strips with staggered joints mean little problem with end grain glue joint failure.

And why is it that end grain is "friendlier" on knife edges? I can see standing up to knife cuts better, but easier on they knives themselves?

[Eric DeSilva]

there are literally square miles of hard maple long grain cutting surfaces in restaurants, food shops and homes across this country and they last a long, long time. Long strips with staggered joints mean little problem with end grain glue joint failure.

The glue up in question involves neither long strips nor staggered joints. If it was a cutting board made that way, I probably would not have made the statement I did. The problem is with this board and the orientation of the small blocks. It would have been no harder to make this an end grain board, and an end grain board would have been stronger and more knife-friendly.


And why is it that end grain is "friendlier" on knife edges? I can see standing up to knife cuts better, but easier on they knives themselves?

Talk to any chef. Knives on long grain boards dull faster. The same reason that cuts don't show--which is that the blade tends to go between the fibers instead of cutting them--tends to make end grain friendlier to knife edges.

[Dave Gaul]

And why is it that end grain is "friendlier" on knife edges? I can see standing up to knife cuts better, but easier on they knives themselves?


My dad is a life-long chef, and I myself do most of the cooking (grilling!) at home... I just got a new chef's knife, actually my first high-quality one, and the instructions that came with knife even say to use an end-grain cutting board to keep the knife sharp longer....

Think about it, with the end-grain facing up, the knife cuts "between" the fibers, rather than across them.... with the blade going between the fibers, this presents less impact to the sharpened edge...

[Ellen Benkin]

The plans for this (or a similar board) are at awlfreeplans.com and you may be able to get to them via the Wood Whisperer web site. You don't glue up end grain to end grain. You glue up strips of contrasting woods, then cross cut strips from that, flip them to show the end grain, flip them again to get the pattern, and glue up that setup. There are many patterns that can be made depending on the width of the original strips. Most chefs prefer end grain cutting boards because they are easier on the knives. Make sure none of the woods you use are toxic or cause allergies to flare up. For example, some people who are allergic to nuts cannot use a cutting board with walnut in it.

I make these for sale and gifts for friends and they are very popular. I do not charge multiple hundreds of $$ for them.

Good luck.

[Jay Jolliffe]

I've read somewhere & I don't remember what mag it was that if you coat the endgrain peice that want to glue let is soak in, not long enough to skin over or dry & reaply glue then glue the peices together & clamp it will give a good bond. Well I tried it on something I was doing & I had to work at it to break the joint. I know long grain to long grain is the best but this had to be hammered apart. I've done face frames with pocket screws end grain to long grain & had to break apart that joint so it does hold to a point. With wood movement it might not work that great over a long period of time. Just my opinion.

[David DeCristoforo]

You actually can glue end grain. It's never going to be as strong as a long grain glue joint but you might be surprised at how long it can hold up. I once made a walnut coffee table that had tons of end grain glue joints and it it survived quite nicely for years, I gave it away one time when we moved and for all I know it's still together. Of course, that was before I knew better...

[Brian D Anderson]

It would have been no harder to make this an end grain board, and an end grain board would have been stronger and more knife-friendly.

It can be done as end grain, but it would indeed be harder. As was mentioned above, the process for this type of board involves a two step glue up, the first being long grain to long grain, then cutting, turning up on end, flipping every other row and gluing again. Unless I'm mistaken, you would need 8 different thicknesses of boards to do this pattern. It's not exactly the same pattern as Marc's cutting boards.

I know the process well since I did a section of my counter in the "Wood Whisperer" style. As well as a bunch of other similar cutting boards.

Anyway . . . I don't think biscuits or dowels were used. I'm thinking he either used epoxy or just went with the end grain glue up.

-Brian