New guy making a Krenov-style plane

[Jon Agnew]

Hi, everyone. I've been lurking for a few weeks and finally have a reason to speak up. I suppose introductions are in order....

I'm Jon. I'm very much a beginner, but I love it and am totally obsessed already. I think in the 6 weeks since I made my first cutting board, I've driven my poor wife insane. (Is there a support group for wives of woodworkers?) Nice to meet you.

As a beginner, I have a very limited selection of tools (though the wife did just buy me a LN low angle-block plane for our anniversary. :cool:). For a few more short months, I have access to a well stocked wood shop, so I want to take advantage of the opportunity. I thought it would be a great chance to make some tools, thus giving me more experience while fattening my tool box.

I bought Finck's Making and Mastering Wood Planes and have read almost every page on the internet concerning Krenov-style planes. I am almost ready to begin, but have a question about wood selection for this project. I have about 6 board feet of Teak waiting patiently in my apartment for me to put it to good use. I thought I might use it for plane making, since I have enough to make a smoothing plane and maybe a jointer as well. HOWEVER....In all of my research, I have never seen a wood plane made of Teak. There must be a reason for this, but, as a noob, I have no idea what it would be. I'm pretty sure teak is hard enough. I know it's durable. Is it dense and heavy enough?

Any advice, tips, tricks, suggestions, criticisms, etc. are welcome. You all know a lot more than me about this. Thanks in advance. Glad to be a part of SMC.

[Casey Gooding]

Teak should work great. Just make sure it's nice and dry before you start. With it's natural oils, I would think it would be a great choice.
These are fun to make. A word of caution, though. It can be addictive. I seem to keep coming up with excuses as to why I need yet another Krenov smoother.
Enjoy!!

[Tim Mahoney]

Go for it with the teak. The planes are fun to make and mess around with. The most expensive part is the blade and you can always use it on another plane if you make a mistake in your first. Make sure the bottom is dead on flat.

[Brian Kent]

I want to see the teak plane. Yes. I am guessing you don't see many because teak costs so much. But if you already have it, it's free.

[Steve knight]

I was told teak would not be a good choice. not sure why but it does have a lot of silica in it and that may cause issues. though in my experience oily woods cause the most problems in plane building.

[Terry Beadle]

A Krenov plane doesn't need the attributes of Teak. The silica is a negative as Steve Knight describes.

I don't know your lumber buget but I'd save that Teak for a nice box or special project later.

I would recommend you get some cherry, or rock maple, or purple heart or even red oak for the body parts of the plane. The sole would benefit from some lignum viete or like Steve Knight uses, Ipe. The sides and body components of a plane just need to be stable, straight grained, and strong. Teak has all those qualities but is pricey when compared to all the other hardwoods available that can do the job well and last over a 100 years.

I've made several planes that use lignum viete for a sole both as re-sole and initial creation designs. It's a great wood even though it's oily. Just cut it, maybe 3/8ths thick, plane it, wash it with alcohol ( not beer ! ) but the rubbing kind or some japan drier or acetone ( best ). Then glue it quick and let settle for a couple days. I've never had a sole split out after such a prep and glue treatment and I have a favorite plane that's been a daily user for several years of use.

My suggestion is to get some other woods as suggested above and use them before you commit to Teak.

As a suggestion, look at Steve Knights planes on his web site and some of the others that make woodies. No Teak planes are offered as a hint.

By the way, I have no association with Steve Knight other than being a very happy buyer. His smoother made with Ipe sole and bloodwood sides is not only beautiful to look at but is even better to use. Mine has an optional $90 Galoot Tools performance blade that is made in a similar fashion to Japanese blades and keeps an edge really well. When you make a plane, the blade is the most important part. The woods you use are quite a bit back in the design selection priorities in my opinion. Of course, like all generalities, just because you have a great blade doesn't mean you will have a great plane.

Enjoy the process. Your wife will love the shavings off some aromatic cedar thrown in a bowl for her closet. Excellent points with the loved one !

Take care and happy shavings !

[Steve knight]

the only change to the above advice would be not to use cherry it is too soft and would wear fast. purpleheart is extremely stable and tough as nails.

[Jon Agnew]

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. Based on Steve and Terry's posts, I think I'll reserve the teak for something else.

Terry, great idea for the cedar shavings! I'm always looking for new ways to score brownie points! :cool:

[Mike Wilkins]

Teak should work great for a plane. Hard, heavy and nice-looking also. The Garrett Wade company at one time used to have a set of ebony planes in their catalog (sometime in the 80"s) that looked real sweet. But the price likely scared a lot of folks off. Would love to have a set though.
Don't forget to share the results with us.

[Leigh Betsch]

Steve Knight, have you evr used mesquite? I have a slab coming up from Texas, planning to make a 30" joiner. Any thoughts.

[Phillip Ngan]

Here's a couple of thoughts from one newbie to another about making a Krenov style plane. I followed Krenov's step by step instructions described his book "The fine art of cabinet making". The plane is glued up and operational but not shaped -- waiting for a spokeshave to be completed ;)

He talks about using an old plane iron and chip breaker salvaged from an old plane. I did this and it worked out really well. I had to reduce the width and length of the blade. A small angle grinder and zip disk made this task easy.

Make sure that the cross member that holds the wedge in place is perpendicular to both sides of the plane. That is, pay attention to the placement of the side holes. It was only by luck that mine were aligned properly. Next time I will dry assemble the plane and use a drill press to drill the holes in the side in a single plunge to ensure alignment and perpendicularity. Not having it dead on is not the end of the world, but means that the wedge will have to be specially shaped.

Adjusting the plane blade turns out to be easier than I expected. The gentle tapping really works well, and the blade really does stay in place.

I used Western maple. Too soft. But it was a practice exercise. Next time, I think I'll use a harder hard wood, and may purchase a blade from LV or Hock.

My only dilemma is that since that plane works so well, what of my LN and LV planes? The feel of a wooden plane is completely different from a iron plane, and I can see why Krenov eventually abandoned his iron planes.

[Tristan Williams]

Go for it! As others have said though: Be warned, it is addictive. I made a really basic first prototype using a Stanley iron and some thin PAR beech from the local big box store, and was mighty impressed. I have a few boards of maple & beech and a handful of nice thick irons waiting for me to get some more workshop time to make a few more.

Another great book on the topic is Making Traditional Wooden Planes by John M Whelan. It includes several more techniques and plans for plow planes etc. The next one I make will probably use the 2-part process outlined in there - I'm exclusively a hand tool user so it means only one pair of mating surfaces to get perfect.

[Chris M Pyle]

How thick of an iron can you make?

I'm thinking about purchasing some 01 tool steel to make different sized irons and I want them to be thick. People often refer to the the thickness of the iron and a well-tuned chipbreaker as being the most important characteristics in a well made plane. (think japanese irons)

I'd love to hear comments from anyone who has had experience.

Would 1/4" be too thick for an iron?

[David Dalzell]

I just made my first plane. A Krenov style smoother of Purpleheart. It works great. I had a variety of wood available but decided on purpleheart because it was relatively inexpensive and i didn't want to screw up some expensive wood like ebony or rosewood or ???. My first try produced .002 inch walnut shavings. I think (with absolutely no scientific basis) that pretty much any hardwood will work for a plane. Some types of wood may last longer, or just be more traditional, but if it shaves well then it is a success.

[David Dalzell]

I also followed Finck's book to make my smoother.

[Steve knight]

I have made thousands of planes with 1/4" irons. I was the king of thick irons. it's about as thick as you want to get. it makes free hand sharpening easier since the bevel is so large it is easy to stop from rocking. but you need some kind of forge to heat it. thinner stock sometimes you can do with a touch bot 1/4" is just too thick.

[Chris M Pyle]

Thanks Steve.

I have access to a kiln, that probably doesn't get hot enough does it?

Steve, do you still make planes? Do you have any pictures of how to make a dovetail plane? I am wanting to tackle that after I tackle a few krenov, regular wooden planes.

I won't order any steel until I hear back from you regarding the heat-treating.

Thanks!

[David Keller NC]

Assuming your kiln is designed to hard-fire ceramics, it will most definitely be hot enough - you only need to get O-1 to cherry red to get it good and hard in an oil bath. In fact, your kiln may be too hot - you don't want the steel to get bright orange or white hot as it will "burn" the steel and do bad things to the carbon content, especially if your kiln doesn't have a means to limit the oxygen atmosphere.

There's a way around the oxygen problem that George Wilson has described, though it was for A-2 steel - wrap the iron in stainless steel foil with a bit of kraft paper inside to scavenge the oxygen. Might work for O-1, though I've not tried it.

[Chris M Pyle]

there is a low, medium and high. Do you have a suggestion on how to figure out the low temperature?

Thanks for the answers

[Jim Belair]

Do you have any pictures of how to make a dovetail plane? I am wanting to tackle that after I tackle a few krenov, regular wooden planes.


I made a dovetail plane from an old skew rabbet plane following Derek Cohen's instructions.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Evolving%20a%20Dovetail%20Plane.html

Easy to do and it works great.

Jim B

[Ron Hock]

I have some diy heat treatment info here: http://www.hocktools.com/diyht.htm and there is a lot more in my book: http://www.hocktools.com/perfectedge.htm. (http://www.hocktools.com/perfectedge.htm)Your kiln should get hot enough. I'd recommend a test run with a remnant. With O1 you can test for critical temperature with a magnet (the steel will be non-magnetic at critical temp.) Throw a charcoal briquette into the kiln to scavenge oxygen (can't hurt.) Be careful: gloves, eye protection, fire extinguisher, etc.

Let us know how it turns out.

Good luck!

[Chris M Pyle]

Thanks Ron. I appreciate the help.

I will order some next week and report on how it turns out.

And I will have to order your book now...