general 260-1 comments please

[Martin Rock]

Hi

I am about to purchase a 260-1 (VS) 12" lathe. I could get a nice deal on a 15 years old lathe, in new condition (never used) for under 2500$.

I am a cabinetmaker and would like to get into turning. Basically, I will turn furniture parts, but also from time to time, bowls, platters and vessels.

The head stock doesn`t pivot but I guess I could turn outboard when needed.
The motor is only 1hp on 220V, I wonder if this is enough?
This lathe got a minimum speed of about 410 rpm, is this slow enough? for larger bowls

thanks for any comments

Martin

[Jeff Willard]

I think that's a fine machine-for spindle work. You might find the low end limiting as far as off balance bowl blanks go. 1 HP should be fine for anything you could button onto that machine. As for price, don't know. How does that compare to a new one?

[Jeff Fagen]

From what I know you could get a better deal on another new brand with better options for those kind of cookies.I've put time in on a General and found it noisy and the cabinet was in the way.Good luck

[Jeff Willard]

Is it a Reeves drive, or EVS?

[Martin Rock]

new ones are around 5000$ + tx

[Steve Vaughan]

I think if I were looking to drop $2500 on a lathe, I'd look at some of the newer stuff that's out...I'd think for the money, give or take a little, you could get a few more bells and whisles such as a lower-end rpm, larger capacity, and a bit more horses and overall a bit more flexibility for options.

[Martin Rock]

it's a mechanical variable speed, I don`t know what is a Reeves drive

[Jeff Willard]

That's a Reeves drive.

[David Colafranceschi]

If you wait they come up quite a bit cheaper. I bought that same lathe, maybe 5 years older for a 1000. Rebuilt, cleaned, painted and new 2hp motor and I was under or around 2000, for essentially a new machine. It is an excellent lathe, regardless of age you can pick up the phone and get parts. May not be the ideal too for turning bowls but I bet I can find a dedicated bowl machine for less than what I have into this. I wouldn't get caught up so much with specs. It's an excellent tool.

[Wally Dickerman]

I used a Gen 260 for about 10 years. At the time I bought it it was the top of the line. Very well built. A very smooth Reeves drive, but only a 12 inch swing. However, if you aked a lot of turners how often they turned something over 12 in. in dia....most would say never. It does have a 16 in. swing for platters.

Whether or not this lathe will work for you depends on what you want to do with it. If spindle turning for furniture making, then you couldn't find a better machine. If you want to make bowls it's okay...I turned hundreds of them on mine. I had an outboard bed and turned bowls and HF's on it. The OB spindle has LH threads so it turns in reverse. Faceplates and chucks would have to have LH threads. The lathe came with a LH thread faceplate. If you use glue blocks that's all that you really need. Don't let anybody tell you that a chuck is a necessary item to turn bowls and HF's. Before about 1990 the 4-jaw chuck that's so popular today didn't even exist.....

I never had a problem with the 1 hp motor. You just don't take a huge bowl gouge cut on an 11 inch bowl.

If you are thinking of bowls and hollow forms, then for around the the same price a PM with a sliding headstock and a larger swing would be better.

Wally

[Martin Rock]

Wally, what do you mean by "PM"

David and Wally, Have you had any problem with the cabinet being in the way or the noise making of the 260

also what do you think of the low end speed as far as roughing out big bowls

thanks

[Wally Dickerman]

Wally, what do you mean by "PM"

David and Wally, Have you had any problem with the cabinet being in the way or the noise making of the 260

also what do you think of the low end speed as far as roughing out big bowls

thanks

The noise, which really isn't much, is the reeves drive system. If the lathe had an electronic speed control, it would be a very quiet running lathe.

I can't imagine why the cabinet would be in the way. It certainly was never anything that I even gave a thought to. It encloses the motor and reeves drive.

The low end speed never bothered me. I usually use my bandsaw to make the bowl blank close to round. A few minutes with a bowl gouge brings it into balance. Not a problem, with spindle turning.

Martin, the General 260 in good shape is really a quality machine. Better than many made today. I know a lot of very experienced turners who are very happy with the 260. I was with mine. The only reason that I sold mine was that I acquired a large custom built Nichols lathe for turning big stuff and I didn't have room for 2 lathes.

PM is Powermatic. The PM 3520B is a very popular lathe today. A lesser version is the Jet 1642. Made by the same company.

I suggest that if you think that the lathe would work for you, make a lowball offer.

Wally

[Nigel Tracy]

I turn on a General 260, but the 20" model. I also bought mine used. It was in great shape, ready to go, came with some goodies like a chuck and steb centre, and got it for $2k Canadian dollars.

I agree with Wally, it's an extremely well made machine. Before upgrading I had this lathe (with no cabinet): http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=CT128 and I don't find the cabinet a bother at all, in fact the storage space is handy.

There is a riser kit available for head and tailstock which extends capacity from 12" to 20". I believe it's around $500.

I wanted a 260 since they were made in Canada, so I watched the used market for a while. Regarding price, I also agree with Wally that they do come along for less than $2500, especially for the 12", so if you're not in a rush, make a low offer. To be a good bowl machine it will need the riser kit, and maybe a larger motor, so tell the seller you'll have some upgrade costs ($500+) right off the bat...

Good luck :)

[Frank Drew]

The OB spindle has LH threads so it turns in reverse. Faceplates and chucks would have to have LH threads. The lathe came with a LH thread faceplate.This, to me, is the great shortfall of an otherwise excellent machine, that and the fact that a reversing motor hasn't been standard. I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND why General has persisted so long with this by now very outdated design, particularly since they go to the trouble to offer an excellent outboard setup.
Don't let anybody tell you that a chuck is a necessary item to turn bowls and HF's. Before about 1990 the 4-jaw chuck that's so popular today didn't even exist..... Not necessary, obviously, but the new chucking accessories have, IMO, revolutionized bowl turning, at least for anyone who values his or her time and doesn't value plugged screw holes in the bottom of his or her work.



If you are thinking of bowls and hollow forms, then for around the the same price a PM with a sliding headstock and a larger swing would be better.

I agree, for those reasons.

[Lance kanaby]

Just my personal opinion, but there are better lathes out there for less money. I would look at the Jet 1642 EVS2, 16" swing and 2 HP and electronic speed control.

[Nigel Tracy]

Martin, I just noticed you're in Canada:

I would very strongly consider the Busy Bee lathe I gave the link to. In Canada this lathe has received a ton of praise, and is still very aggressively priced. Other than the 18" capacity, it is basically the same as the Jet and Powermatic you see so many recommending. It is right in between them in terms of overall "heft". Here's the link again:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=CT128

As i mentioned, I owned this lathe and was very pleased with it. It didn't have any of the problems that some have reported with the identical Grizzly lathe. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

You want to do bowls: The general's 12" swing and 1hp is not ideal
Reeves Drive: can be noisy and vibrate. Best to avoid if possible. Electronic speed control is way smoother and easier to "dial in" just the right speed.
Cost: The Busy Bee CT128 is just over half of the $2500, for a lathe with a larger swing, 2hp, and electronic variable speed, all things you'll want when turning bowls.

Not sure if you're still looking for comments but there you go :)

Once again, good luck, or bonne chance! and have fun with the selection process

[Wally Dickerman]

This, to me, is the great shortfall of an otherwise excellent machine, that and the fact that a reversing motor hasn't been standard. I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND why General has persisted so long with this by now very outdated design, particularly since they go to the trouble to offer an excellent outboard setup. Not necessary, obviously, but the new chucking accessories have, IMO, revolutionized bowl turning, at least for anyone who values his or her time and doesn't value plugged screw holes in the bottom of his or her work.


I agree, for those reasons.

Frank, I too don't understand why General doesn't join the other good makers of lathes with a sliding headstock and a reversing motor. When I had my 260 I had a friend install a reversing switch for sanding.

I have 4 chucks but I still use a glue block on most of my bowls and HF's. Usually I cut a tenon on the glue block and use a chuck. Sometimes though. I use a screw chuck. Suits the way I've been turning for a long time.

You mentioned holes in the bottom of a bowl when using a faceplate...nobody does that anymore. The screw holes are in the glue block. Back in the dark ages of turning we all dealt with screw holes in the bottom of bowls.

Wally

[Nigel Tracy]

Frank, I too don't understand why General doesn't join the other good makers of lathes with a sliding headstock and a reversing motor. When I had my 260 I had a friend install a reversing switch for sanding...

Wally
I'm quite sure they only sell the 260 now with EVS, with reverse of course.

EDIT: just checked, yes they do sell the EVS version, but they still have the reeves drive models listed as well. Guess the parts are still lying around, but I have to wonder who would ever pay that much for a reeves drive lathe...

[Frank Drew]

If they offer reversing, then there's no reason for them to left-hand thread the outboard spindle. Maybe that's been changed that by now, too, but it meant that if you wanted to do faceplate work both inboard and outboard, you'd need two sets of tooling (or a LH-RH spindle adapter, which could introduce some wobble). But the General is a heavy lathe, and heaviness is a big plus.

Wally,

One of the great accessories of the newer 4-jaw chucks is the bowl plate system (Cole jaws, etc.) which allow you to hold securely even a large bowl by the rim to turn the bottom; again, not absolutely necessary, but ideal for quick, easy and repeatable work.

[Roger Alexander]

Hello, I have used the General machine before I got t he Jet 1642. That is a good machine. But like some one else has said for the money I would get the Jet 1642 with either motor. Take the few extral money and get a few tools also. Good luck on making up your mind. Roger

[David Colafranceschi]

I have not noticed any issue with the cabinet getting in the way. As far as noise. I don't know, I don't find it noisy at all. I have the reeves drive and I don't have a problem with it. I replaced the original 1HP motor with a 2HP Leeson and the change over was pretty simple. I put the rebuild on here in some thread. Another poster said there is a riser kit for this machine but the price quoted is incorrect. For the Reeves drive model it is north of 700, I believe, if my memory is correct, was told it was 760 from the General order desk. The problem with the older machines was that they came with a shorter banjo and if you do want to install the riser kit you may have to replace the banjo to deal with the extra swing. They are around 300 for a new banjo.

All in all I really like the machine. If one wants the electronic variable drive I have seen them out there for around 2500 with 20" of swing. I think that is a great deal. Everyone has their own opinion on which machine to buy. Lots of good machines out there and there is a lot of quality used machines available. I would have to think seriously about buying anything new again after seeing what you can find if you are patient.

Good luck with your purchase.

[Martin Rock]

Thanks all for your comments, it really helps

Here is where I stand now in my decision making.

I like and favor the 260 for it's quality and weight. I also like the fact that this machine is in new condition. The fact that this machine is made in my backyard might also have something to do with it :o)

I think I can easily live with the extra noise caused by the reeves drive and the 1hp motor. I tend to beleive that a reeves drive is a reliable mechanism.

On the downside, For turning extra big bowls, I will have to buy the outboard extension and another set chuck/faceplate to deal with the resersed threads.

The last specs I am still worried for, is the minimum speed of around 400 this lathe can offer. For what I understand it might be a little fast for roughing large bowls but this is something that I think I can live with and get used to, it is just a matter of being a little more carefull and patient. The low end speed of 400 rpm is probable too fast for thread chasing tough.

Martin

[Wally Dickerman]

Thanks all for your comments, it really helps

Here is where I stand now in my decision making.

I like and favor the 260 for it's quality and weight. I also like the fact that this machine is in new condition. The fact that this machine is made in my backyard might also have something to do with it :o)

I think I can easily live with the extra noise caused by the reeves drive and the 1hp motor. I tend to beleive that a reeves drive is a reliable mechanism.

On the downside, For turning extra big bowls, I will have to buy the outboard extension and another set chuck/faceplate to deal with the resersed threads.

The last specs I am still worried for, is the minimum speed of around 400 this lathe can offer. For what I understand it might be a little fast for roughing large bowls but this is something that I think I can live with and get used to, it is just a matter of being a little more carefull and patient. The low end speed of 400 rpm is probable too fast for thread chasing tough.

Martin

Martin, I'm sure that you'll enjoy your nearly new General. In the 10 or so years that I used mine I turned many hundreds of bowls and hollow forms. Never had a problem with the lathe. I've had 2 lathes with a Reeves drive. The Delta gave me problems but the General was always smooth and operated very well. If you opt for the outboard bed it will have to include a tool rest banjo to accomodate the extra height. Probably comes as a unit. Plus you'll have to learn to hollow "left handed". Not a problem once you get into it.

I didn't bolt my lathe to the floor but I bolted it to a larger base to both raise the lathe and to give it more stability when it did a little shaking with an unbalanced piece. I stacked 150 lb. of 25 lb. bags of lead shot inside the cabinet. (One of my other hobbies was skeet shooting and I loaded my own shotshells)

Wally

[Joseph Cardinal]

The last specs I am still worried for, is the minimum speed of around 400 this lathe can offer. For what I understand it might be a little fast for roughing large bowls but this is something that I think I can live with and get used to, it is just a matter of being a little more carefull and patient. The low end speed of 400 rpm is probable too fast for thread chasing tough.

Martin



Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be a relatively easy thing to replace the motor drive pulley (with a smaller one) and the motor drive belt (with a longer one) to achieve the lower speed?

I don't have the General specs, but looking at a picture of a typical Reeves drive (not General) it looks like a pretty simple thing to do...of course this would only be doable if the original General motor drive pulley were large enough to begin with.

148322

[Martin Rock]

the original motor pulley is about 3" and the motor shaft about 5/8

[Joseph Cardinal]

the original motor pulley is about 3" and the motor shaft about 5/8


It's all ratios, what speed do you want?

If 3" gives you 400 rpm...then 2" will give you 267 rpm... 1.5" will give you 200 rpm...etc.

Of course the smaller the pulley the less surface area there is between the belt and the pulley body. Less surface area equals less grip, less grip might lead to belt slippage.

A balance must be reached.

I'd have no problem going down to 2", beyond that I really don't know. Some experimentation would be in order.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about these things will step in.



Of course you realize that to achieve a lower bottom rpm's you are sacrificing upper rpm's.

[Martin Rock]

well I went to the seller and tried both his lathe for sale.

The first lathe, the one I was initially interested in, the 260-1 1hp, with reeves drive in new condition. I found the reeves drive noisy. 2300$

The second lathe, an old 1971 260 4 speed in good condition, with new paint, new set of spindle shaft bearings, upgraded with a 2hp motor and EVS - 2300$

I have still haven`t made my mind but am probably going to go with the rebuilt one.

thanks again for your comments

Martin

[Nigel Tracy]

Yep, my vote would be for the second one, new bearings, 2hp, evs, same price... no brainer :)

[Bernie Weishapl]

I would go for the second one for sure.

[Joseph Cardinal]

Didn't realize you had the choice between two 260's.

As long as the older one is in good shape (no cracked castings or signs of abuse) and the EVS is a real EVS (not a dimmer switch:rolleyes:) definitely go for that one.

[Dirk Lewis]

So...whats in your shop now?

[Martin Rock]

I took the 1971 lathe. The EVS works well, the bed is in nice condition. I will try to find a second hand outboard kit.