How to keep the family away from the projects

[Brendan Plavis]

MY question is, how do you folks/did you folks keep your non-woodworking family away from your projects/workshop. I have been working on both a desk and a couple school projects, so that has kind of enabled be to take over the garage slowly but effectively. So, in true me fashion, I used dis-organized organization(I can find stuff, but very few others can.) Now Ill admit, I was going to do some cleaning, since the word red raum came to mind(I had been sanding some boards down that the wood was red(stripping the paint.) But today I come home to find that my desk has been dragged across the concrete floor, all of the tools I had out have been put away(took me a week to find the tools I had out) and 5 trashbags are occupying 20% of my small half of a 1 car garage.

Now I am only 15, so I think booby traps and Rotwillers are out of the question, but how do I keep the family from screwing(pardon my French) with my area. My grandfather is OCD(well it seems that way) about cleaning so its getting on my nerves(vacume is going 12 hours a day.) It seems like every chance he gets he is messing with the set up I have(I was staining the top of the table, till he decided to stand it up, while it was wet(caused the stain to take the ruts of the concrete), forcing me to strip the stain off. Not to mention he decided to use it a workbench, so now its all banged to hell, cock-eyed, and has indents from the clamps,when he refused to use another surface to cut thread rods on(I forced him to put a board beneath it, since it previously scratched the tablesaw to hell(left indents.) I mean, I am taking two steps forward and three steps back..

I mean we dont use the garage for its intended purpose, so its not a matter of getting the car in there. I mean, I really only work in there 2 days a week by force(grandfather, as I mentioned in an early post, is constantly worried that I will mangle my self in some way, so to deal with that I only work when he is not here) but when I do, boy do I make headway...

I was hoping you kind creekers could shed some suggestions, as I am tired of this... I do plan on drafting a few guidelines that I will make them sign basicly stating that I am willing to pass an inpromptu safety test, and/or take classes, for the ability not to have to work with him when he is here. Also outlining that when projects are in motion, cleaning will not occur. And basicly saying stuff like that. I do plan on purchasing a few tools the end of this summer(depending on how much I make, as so I can really finalize it(projects have really outlined that I need to invest in a jointer, a bandsaw, and possibly a tablesaw(I might hold off till I get a year round job, so I can save up for a SawStop(I like all my digits.. :) )

Thanks
-Brendan

[Louie Ballis]

Just remeber Brendan that saftey concerns and your grandfathers interest in your projects is most likely his way of showing love.

I would imagine that there are a lot of young men your age who would love to have a older male relative show an interest in what they were involved in.

Maybe you could interest him in doing a project togeather for someone in the family (ie. jewelry box for grandma or your mom or sister). That way you could demonstrate your careful ways of doing things, probably to the point of him feeling more comfortable with you working unsupervised.

In other words go easy on the old fella, he just has your best interests at heart.

[Nathan Callender]

Well, three things that pop into my mind:

1. I don't use power tools when other people are watching me that aren't helping. If Grandpa is helping, great. If not, just ask for privacy or work on it when he's not there.

2. It sounds like this is a communication problem with your Grandpa. Seriously, start a constructive conversation and figure out how you can get along better with him.

3. And most importantly.... if disorganization bothers people around you (that live with you) man up and clean up. If you don't want your work area messed with, put your tools away and clean up. You'll probably work better as well, and you'll develop good shop habits, but primarily out of respect for those that live with you, clean up after you are finished for the day. It sounds harsh, I know, but I wish someone would have instilled that into me when I was 15.

[Rob Holcomb]

I had to lay down the law after a mishap. My shop is half of our 24'X40' garage. My son had some friends over and they were practicing some skateboarding tricks in the garage portion or so I thought! The next day, I went out to do some work and turned on my band saw. I started to cut a piece of wood and WHAM! the blade flew off the wheels. When I asked my son if he or any of his friends were messing around near my tools, he admitted that one of his friends was turning the knobs on the Band saw. That was the end of their using the garage for a play area.

[Joe Shinall]

Compromise. Try and keep the garage tidy and neat and keep your tools put up. It's better to spend 20 minutes after working on something to tidy it up than to come out and have that happen again. Try to impress wherever you can. Your grandfather will most likely be intent on compromising with you if you compromise for him.

[Steve Griffin]

Be tidy as mentioned, respectful of the tools, nice to those in charge and you will be amazed at how much you can get away with! I'd back off the "no cleaning while projects underway"--the best shops around clean up everyday.

Keep at it--the next generation will be woefully lacking in people who can use their hands and their minds. Even if you don't pursue woodworking in the future, you will have learned some great stuff. And had some fun too.

-Steve

[Clarence Miller]

Brendan,

I sympathize with your dilemma but you also have to realize that your shop is considered storage by others. I like the approach of offering to take classes and allowing safety inspections. Are you the only grandchild by the way?

Also before I would invest in some of the heavy equipment (jointer, planer etc. ) Look into a corded drill and a Kreg jig. The advantages of pocket holes are really worth the investment. It will add speed to your project (along with hidden screws) and give it a good finished look. A small bench saw will get you by for awhile. I got by with one for a couple of years in the beginning. My first table saw was salvaged from curb during a city wide clean up.

[Mike Cruz]

As others have stated, you are sharing space with others. This is not your house. You may live there, but you do not own it. Treat others' property as good or better than you would your own. You may not understand this concept at such a young age (it was a lesson my father had a hard time teaching me, but I eventually learned it) but you will/may later...if you are lucky.

And also, as others have said, your grandfather is most likely looking out for your best interests...even if you don't know what they are...even if you THINK you know what they are. Defiance (while a typical, normal, and expected trait of teenagers) is not well received, and rarely gets the results intended. So, leaving the area messy and in an order that you can unfold, but left in a way to hopefully deter others from infiltrating, will many times backfire, leaving others (namely your parents and grandparents) left pondering your maturity and responsibility.

Take charge of your plight. Clean up. Organize. Command respect, don't demand it...

[Rick Markham]

Having been a professional chef for many years, I am a firm believer in the concept of "misen place" it means "everything has its place". If you organize your tools, constantly in the same place, everytime. You no longer have to think about where it is, your hand can just go to it and it is there. This means creating an efficient clean workspace. No looking for a tool you just set down in the wrong place 5 minutes ago. Realizing you live with others and the tools are not yours, you have a couple of options. Get grandpa, on a "helping you organize" kick. Together, you help him organize the entire shop, every tool, from the biggest to the smallest needs a "home". Religiously when you use your tools, put them back, exactly in the same home. Use his OCD to your advantage, imagine never looking for that tool "that was just right here" again ;)

Get your grandpa interested in this project, and use this to your advantage. Make a project out of it. Build a nice pegboard, with him. That way you can demonstrate what you are learning about joints, safety, and most of all responsibility to your tools and organization. It's an inexpensive project and will really help you out in the long run, it will probably alleviate yours, and your grandfather's frustration :cool:

Look at post #10 at the pegboard I just finished ;) it would be a good exercise at some unfamiliar joinery for you too. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=137858

[Steven Green]

As a Grandfather of five boys Brendan I can relate to your situation. Three of my grandsons are what we call around here " handy". They love to be in the shop and tend to use tools and not put them back where they found them. Every wrench that even looked like it might fit a nut or a bolt on a bicycle vanished over the course of about a year. I was considering dropping them off a couple of hundred miles from home and then if any of them made it back we could keep them. Loml pointed out that they probably inherited the gene for using their hands from my line and I needed to work out a way to deal with them. We finally got together on all tools going back to the box, bench, shelves or wherever we all got them from. I tended to lay out tools and such and then leave them that way till I got whatever done I was doing. Had to change my style as well as teach them a new one.

[Rich Engelhardt]

MY question is, how do you folks/did you folks keep your non-woodworking family away from your projects/workshop
I ask them to either help me - or - I mention that I need them to repay the money I loaned them because I need supplies or a new tool.
They make themselves real scarce - real quick.

[Myk Rian]

MY question is, how do you folks/did you folks keep your non-woodworking family away from your projects/workshop.
I tell the young ones that EVERYTHING in my shop will hurt them. That's all it took.

[Mike Heidrick]

So I like your spirit but I think you are out of line a bit.

Maybe their perception is:

You are out there working where they do not want you to be.
You do not clean up after yourslef.
You leave tools and projects out.
The stuff sits messy/cluttered untouched 5 days a week.
You do not take out the trash like you should be doing.

The first sign of some sheet they have to sign with your rules - MAN - At 15 You would be pushing a lawn mower and walking the beans until your heels ached.

Never forget:
You are a guest of every adult in that house (even Gandpas Social Security check trumps you)
You do not own half of anything in that house
You do not make any rules
You going to ww school does not make you entitled to anything

It is time to get a work permit and a job bro. I think you need a 'boss" that is not a parent.

[Rod Sheridan]

Brendan, as others have mentioned, if your workspace looks like the inside of a dumpster, it will be treated that way by other people.

Crafts people look after their tools, supplies and shop by making a "place for everything, and everything in its place" not just a slogan, but a lifetime work method.

As others have posted, get organised, put up some peg board, make your space look professional and organised. Once you look and act like a pro, you'll earn the respect you deserve.

As for keeping people out of my shop, I don't work that way. My shop is in my house, and my family live with me.

If either my wife or two daughters want to use the shop, I'll provide instruction and help until they are self sufficient, then they are welcome to use the shop. We have two rules, clean and organised, and if you leave a machine set up and need to keep that setup, put a sign on it so I don't reset it for my needs.

My youngest daughter is qualified to use all shop equipment except the new sliding saw/shaper (she needs training) and in fact is making herself an oak desk at the moment.

Good luck with your shop, regards, Rod.

[Chris Nolin]

Hi Brendan,

Others have already noted that your frustration, though understandable at your age, is not justified. You're still living under your parents/grandparents roof and protection, so your freedom is limited (probably every 15 year old's biggest complaint, right?). Keep that in mind and know that the freedom you seek is coming fast, for better or worse.

What I really want to tell you is how impressed I am by your communication style. It's the rare young man that can so freely communicate his feelings to, and ask for advice from others. I admire that. I also hope that you're able to use the great opinions and pieces of advice that are coming back to you. If you do, I think you will find yourself ahead of your peers in maturity and worldliness. It's like you have a huge network of older brothers and sisters here. While sometimes it might seem like we're a little harsh, we all want to see you succeed in your woodworking and your life. So, keep it up! :)

[Paul Johnstone]

You are pretty much screwed.. I am sorry, but adults aren't likely to listen or sympathsize with you.

I agree with the others.. find a way to put away all the tools when you are done.

If you are putting finish on something, warn people in the house that it is wet, please do not touch.

It sounds as if your grandfather has no respect for your projects, if he's using your project as a workbench and banging it up. I find that sad. You have already mentioned that it bothers you, yet he continues to do it.
Even though you are a kid, he should respect your project. Frankly, I don't see a lot of hope here. He thinks what you are making is junk, and thus he is free to use it for his own purposes.

Sadly, the best advice I can give you is to put this hobby on hold until you become an adult and have your own place where you are the king.
Grandpa is going to continually trash your stuff. It has already caused bad feelings and it will continue to. So save your tool money in the bank.
Don't worry, you will be 18 soon. It seems like it is way in the future now, but the teen years actually go by quick. Enjoy them.. Plenty of time for woodworking later in life.

[Brendan Plavis]

So I like your spirit but I think you are out of line a bit.

Maybe their perception is:

You are out there working where they do not want you to be.
You do not clean up after yourslef.
You leave tools and projects out.
The stuff sits messy/cluttered untouched 5 days a week.
You do not take out the trash like you should be doing.

The first sign of some sheet they have to sign with your rules - MAN - At 15 You would be pushing a lawn mower and walking the beans until your heels ached.

Never forget:
You are a guest of every adult in that house (even Gandpas Social Security check trumps you)
You do not own half of anything in that house
You do not make any rules
You going to ww school does not make you entitled to anything

It is time to get a work permit and a job bro. I think you need a 'boss" that is not a parent.

I have a job thank you very much. Due to the economy, local places are not hiring my age during the school year, but I do have a friend that hires me every summer. And believe me, I do not get taken easy on(she threw a can of tomatoe sauce(its a concession stand) at her son, and sliced her husbands arm open with a spatula....) so please dont play the card that I do not know what work is, thanks.

"You going to ww school does not make you entitled to anything" I never said I was going to woodworking school. I am actually looking at somewhere such as MIT or Boston University(or college, I forget which has the program I am looking at.)

"You do not take out the trash like you should be doing." How do you fathom that? I never said that I don't take out the trash...

"You are out there working where they do not want you to be." Another one that I have no idea how you fathom this information. I stated that my father has no issue... its my grandparents.



As for the rest of the replies, I thank you very much.

Rod, I appreciate the insight. The main issue I have with working around others, is that I do not like the distraction, when working with tools that tend to process limbs into shaved steak quite quickly. Today for example, I was out working on my desk. I was cutting a piece of furing strip(using this for the mounts for the tray track(yea, I know, its not the prettiest, but, I need something that just plain works...) and my little brother(5y/o) was kicking a ball at me. I finally snapped and said "keep the ball still, or I am going to pop it" my grandfather finally stopped him till I finished cutting, but, it should go without request, that when someone is cutting something, horse play is not permitted. And then my grandfather condones to the brat kicking the ball at my unfinished desk. I mean seriously, I am not building it for it to be used as a target... Those are just two examples... If the family would be helpful, then I would permit, but to have them being destructive/down right dangerous, that is something I take issue with.

Thanks you
-Brendan

[Leo Devera]

As someone who has had the same problem, and similar attitude, I think I can help.

When it comes to your family, keep the garage clean. Your parents need to use it for whatever just as much as you do, and they do have the trump card of owning it. So I'd suggest moving stuff out of the way when you don't need it. My garage is pretty much a shop, but one wall isn't, and everything slides away from that wall when I'm not working, which leaves them the room they need to do whatever.

As far as your little brother goes, he doesn't know any better. That is what little kids do. I'd suggest instead of fighting him you show him what you are doing and get him into it too. My brother (although older) used to be the same way. That was until we garbage picked a futon and needed to replace a few parts. When he was sawing the glide block I could tell he was really learning how quickly stuff will go wrong with it if you have major distractions. He hasn't bothered me since.

Also with the parental units, fix stuff around the house. Nothing is more convenient to them than a son who is doing the remodeling project while they get to relax and inspect the work every now and then. This is especially true if they aren't the best with their hands, and something such as changing a light fixture or painting some walls isn't the easiest task for them. It might be easy to you, but it probably isn't for them. And even if you are just assisting, having 2 people painting makes the process a lot easier.

As far as your grandpa, I'm not sure really what to do. I like the suggestion of doing a project with him, and talk to your parents about it too. But when you are taking up all of their real estate, you can't just build projects for yourself.

[Van Huskey]

Try leaving the garage and your work area cleaner and neater each time you leave your projects. In essence work for your shop space.

[Marty Paulus]

Brendan,

OK son it is time for a reality check here. As stated, it is not your garage. Your father may not have an issue but I think your grandfather is trying, in his way, to teach you that you need to learn to clean up when you are done for the day. It may seem like OCD, but a clean work place is a safe work place. Work with gramps to find some common ground. Putting the tools away and sweeping up each night may work wonders with him. It will show him you have some pride in your work and workspace. If you leave the area trashed he will look at it as a trash pit and treat it as such. How long have you been working on the desk? How often do you work on it? I know that my son tends to start things and never finishes them. I have tried to instill a sense of accomplishment but he still leaves things half done and I have to clean up the mess afterwards. That may be what your grandpa is seeing.


I just re-read your first post and realized that you have a table saw available to you that is your grandfathers. You also state that he wouldn’t rip a 2X4 for you and suggested you buy a 2X2 instead. Your grandfather may have more knowledge about what you are doing then you give him credit. Ripping a 2X4 may or may not yield a straight board. I would say most likely not. Most dimensional lumber from the BORG will warp and twist when ripped. At least a 2X2 has half a chance of staying straight. You said the grandpa wouldn’t let you use finish nails to put your mitered joints together. Did it ever occur to you that a 45 miter joint is a weak joint? By telling you to use screws instead he made the joint stronger. It may not look as pretty but it will hold better. I would say your old grandpa does know a thing or two about jointery. Give your grandpa some credit and a chance. He just may surprise you. Ask for his help and guidance instead of complaining that he is there.

Another point is your comment about the ability to create a lap joint on your cross braces. You are correct in that you cannot run a dado stack in a miter saw or circular saw. But again, you do have a table saw available. You have tools available to you that will allow you to cut a lap joint in the wood if you get creative with the tools you have at your disposal. A jig saw can be used to cut several kerfs to a depth and the waste can be broke out with a screwdriver. The resultant ridges can be then sanded smooth. You now have a lap joint. Your lack of knowledge is starting to become a concern. You don’t know what you don’t know.

I am an engineer at my day job. One of my duties is to find ways to make things work. Some are conventional, some are creative. As an engineer you need to be able to find solutions to issues/problems not excuses of why you can’t do something.

[Eric Gustafson]

Brendan,

You have some tough challenges. Your younger brother and maybe your grandfather seem to be antagonistic. The sibling rivalry is natural, but I have a hard time figuring out the motives of your granddad. However, the advice you are getting in this thread is invaluable.

You get the advantage of demonstrating maturity beyond your years, courtesy of the great advice you get here, of course. :D As you stay organized, keep a clean shop, etc. it will help others respect you. I like the idea of having your grandfather work with you to decide where things ought to belong. If you take that to heart, you will show him respect. If you are respecting him, perhaps that will help him respect you.

I have learned something the hard way about getting along with familiy. One, I always try to respond to bad situations by doing something good. Note I said always try, not always succeed. :o If I get angry or frustrated, I like to find a mess and clean it up. It makes me feel better and it disarms whoever wants to fight. I try to be the first to be sorry when I get angry. That isn't hard in my house. ;) Once I am sorry, I make it a point to apologize as soon as tempers have cooled.

Good luck in all that you do and we hope for your success.

[Brendan Plavis]

Brendan,

OK son it is time for a reality check here. As stated, it is not your garage. Your father may not have an issue but I think your grandfather is trying, in his way, to teach you that you need to learn to clean up when you are done for the day. It may seem like OCD, but a clean work place is a safe work place. Work with gramps to find some common ground. Putting the tools away and sweeping up each night may work wonders with him. It will show him you have some pride in your work and workspace. If you leave the area trashed he will look at it as a trash pit and treat it as such. How long have you been working on the desk? How often do you work on it? I know that my son tends to start things and never finishes them. I have tried to instill a sense of accomplishment but he still leaves things half done and I have to clean up the mess afterwards. That may be what your grandpa is seeing.


I just re-read your first post and realized that you have a table saw available to you that is your grandfathers. You also state that he wouldn’t rip a 2X4 for you and suggested you buy a 2X2 instead. Your grandfather may have more knowledge about what you are doing then you give him credit. Ripping a 2X4 may or may not yield a straight board. I would say most likely not. Most dimensional lumber from the BORG will warp and twist when ripped. At least a 2X2 has half a chance of staying straight. You said the grandpa wouldn’t let you use finish nails to put your mitered joints together. Did it ever occur to you that a 45 miter joint is a weak joint? By telling you to use screws instead he made the joint stronger. It may not look as pretty but it will hold better. I would say your old grandpa does know a thing or two about jointery. Give your grandpa some credit and a chance. He just may surprise you. Ask for his help and guidance instead of complaining that he is there.

Another point is your comment about the ability to create a lap joint on your cross braces. You are correct in that you cannot run a dado stack in a miter saw or circular saw. But again, you do have a table saw available. You have tools available to you that will allow you to cut a lap joint in the wood if you get creative with the tools you have at your disposal. A jig saw can be used to cut several kerfs to a depth and the waste can be broke out with a screwdriver. The resultant ridges can be then sanded smooth. You now have a lap joint. Your lack of knowledge is starting to become a concern. You don’t know what you don’t know.

I am an engineer at my day job. One of my duties is to find ways to make things work. Some are conventional, some are creative. As an engineer you need to be able to find solutions to issues/problems not excuses of why you can’t do something.

Maybe I forgot to mention to you, that the saw is an old 7.25inch table saw... as you are aware, dado sets are *generally* 8inches thus, it cannot be done.

Thankyou, but I do request that the tone be lowered to a polite level. "OK son it is time for a reality check here" This I find to be not so polite, so I must ask for you to refrain from it. Thank you for your consideration

-Brendan

[Matt Meiser]

but I have a hard time figuring out the motives of your granddad

Maybe the granddad doesn't like the attitude he gets back when his advise isn't what the grandson wants to hear?

[Joe Shinall]

Brendan, this site may not be the best place for you to come and talk about your parents and grandparents. You have to remember that most people on this site are old enough to be your parents and grandparents. It is a generation gap that you just have not hit yet. Come on here to ask questions about how to do things and any problems you are having with a project.

It sounds to me that you already know what is going to be said and you are just looking for sympathy. My dad always use to tell me that sympathy is just a word between sh#$ and syphilis in the dictionary.

Do not listen to people who tell you to not pursue your hobby. If someone told me I needed to put baseball on hold I would hit them with a bat. Just be careful and clean up and you should be good to go with some compromises.

[Mike Heidrick]

Maybe I forgot to mention to you, that the saw is an old 7.25inch table saw... as you are aware, dado sets are *generally* 8inches thus, it cannot be done.

Thankyou, but I do request that the tone be lowered to a polite level. "OK son it is time for a reality check here" This I find to be not so polite, so I must ask for you to refrain from it. Thank you for your consideration

-Brendan

More than one way to make a dado. They make 6" and smaller stacks.

Reread your original post before you decide who is being polite. No one else here is cursing.

I am not syaing you are doing all the things your quoted me on - but rather that is a perception that could be developed based on your actions and your family's actions.

Try to read and digest before responding.

Good luck.

[Eric Gustafson]

Maybe I forgot to mention to you, that the saw is an old 7.25inch table saw... as you are aware, dado sets are *generally* 8inches thus, it cannot be done.

Thankyou, but I do request that the tone be lowered to a polite level. "OK son it is time for a reality check here" This I find to be not so polite, so I must ask for you to refrain from it. Thank you for your consideration

-Brendan
Reality is a good thing... really! So lighten up.

And you do not need a dado head to cut a dado, btw. I cannot count how many times I didn't bother to install a dado head, but instead made multiple passes with the saw kerf and cleaned up with a chisel. For your purpose, that is exactly how I would have done it.

[Eric Gustafson]

Maybe the granddad doesn't like the attitude he gets back when his advise isn't what the grandson wants to hear?

I think you have something there.

[Van Huskey]

Brendan, this site may not be the best place for you to come and talk about your parents and grandparents. You have to remember that most people on this site are old enough to be your parents and grandparents. It is a generation gap that you just have not hit yet. Come on here to ask questions about how to do things and any problems you are having with a project.

.

I think following this advise will be the most helpful of all the advise I have seen you given here.

[John Coloccia]

After reading through this thread, and the other thread, I have to say that if this is a sample of how we're mentoring the next generation of woodworkers, we're doomed. I don't really expect to see this sort of lapse in decorum just because a member is young and inexperienced. I won't call any posts out in particular, but I don't see this as a shining moment for SMC.

*off soapbox*

Brendan:

Why did he ruin the stain on you piece? Was it on purpose? Have you asked him about it? It doesn't seem like he's particularly hostile to your projects. He's also destroying his own table saw with the same sort of nonsense, isn't he? You've said yourself that the miter saw's in such bad shape that it splinters wood when you pass it through. I'm guessing he likes to improvise instead of taking the time to do things right.

It sounds to me like you don't have a proper workshop. Certainly not if a table saw or your work in progress is the only place grandpa has to work. Have you considered putting your projects on hold, and concentrating on creating a workshop space for yourself? You need benches, storage etc. First thing I would do is build yourself a bench. Doesn't have to be fancy. 2X4s and some plywood. Then work on some shop storage...shelves, etc.

If you do build a bench, don't improvise a design. Build one of these:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm

From my airplane homebuilding days, but quite usable for woodworking too :)

[Rob Steffeck]

After reading through this thread, and the other thread, I have to say that if this is a sample of how we're mentoring the next generation of woodworkers, we're doomed. I don't really expect to see this sort of lapse in decorum just because a member is young and inexperienced. I won't call any posts out in particular, but I don't see this as a shining moment for SMC.

From my perspective I think many posts have gone above and beyond what is probably being asked. The threads he started are not titled: "How can I make better projects with the limited tools I have?" or "Where can I learn more about joinery?"

After reading these two threads, I don't get the impression that this kid is really asking for more experienced woodworkers to show him the ropes, but rather wants to show what he already thinks he knows. Subconsciously he probably also wants some praise. Praise he's probably not getting at home. If you build something and your proud of it, but no one notices or says anything, how would you feel when you're 15?

In order for someone to be mentored, they first must be humble. Some of the posts were trying to humble him in a way that is probably not best for a 15 year old since it caused him to be reactionary and defensive.

Brendan - first and foremost, be happy with what you have and make the best of it. You have a very productive hobby that will benefit your future engineering career. Even with your limited tools, you still probably have more than a lot of your contemporaries. You also have a grandfather. That is something you may not appreciate as much now as you will later on in life.

So you have to learn to clean up since its not your garage, how bad is that in the grand scheme of things? So you have to learn to do work when your little brother is annoying you. Distractions and annoyances are a way of life. You have to learn to manage it.

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime, you just might find, that you get what you need. ;) Try to distill what you need from what you want.

[Mike Cruz]

John, I don't believe that the responses that Brendan has been getting has anything to do with his age or level of experience. It is a soulful reflection of his attitude.

As for a workbench made of 2x4's....I think he's making that now.

[Mike Cruz]

Rob, those words sound so profound, someone should right a song about them...;)

[Rob Steffeck]

Rob, those words sound so profound, someone should right a song about them...;)

You're right. I'm sure Brendan feels that he's Under My Thumb and that this is his Beast of Burden, but I'm sure someday he'll get some Satisfaction and finally have Sympathy for the Devil.

[Jim Rimmer]

Brendan:

1. Maybe part of the problem with Grandpa is your attitude. In a couple of posts you talk about how you "forced" him to do something or that you refused to do something he wanted. That's pretty strong language from a 15 yo and if it is accurate, you're probably not winning a lot of points with Grandpa. Your response to several people here (who you asked for advice) as been pretty disrespectful. Maybe you just need to take a deep breath, set aside some time to be alone and do some introspective questioning of yourself.

Having said that, no more negatives from me.

2. Check out some of the threads here about small shops. Lots of guys do amazing work in small spaces that makes it imperative that they keep things orgainized and cleaned up. Check out some other sites as well (wood whisperer dot com, for one) and maybe incorporate some ideas from small shop owners.

3. Sounds like you may have some crappy tools that are causing some issues. If Grandpa isn't a woodworker but just has some old tools around, maybe they need to be tuned up, blades sharpened, etc. Check out some threads here on those subjects.

4. I mentioned in another post that maybe you want to check out neanderthal approach to your projects. Again, there's an entire forum here dedicated to that. Give them a read.

5. And checkout Woodcraft, if there is a store near you, for their free or low cost seminars.

[Mike Cruz]

Hehehehehehehehehehe

[Eric Gustafson]

You're right. I'm sure Brendan feels that he's Under My Thumb and that this is his Beast of Burden, but I'm sure someday he'll get some Satisfaction and finally have Sympathy for the Devil.

And being fifteen, likely knows none of these songs. :rolleyes:

[Brendan Plavis]

Under my Thumb by the rolling stones; Sympathy for the devil, if I am not mistaken is Guns n' roses; never heard of Beast of burden....

As for you Rob, about the humbling, please understand, that I ave Asperger's Syndrome. I have been told by many, that a result of which can be miss perseptions. Often, which you have obviously seen, I tend to take things literally and articulate in a way that is out of context. So Mike, stop attempting to tell every one its my attitude, okay?

Thanks
-Brendan

[Rob Steffeck]

And being fifteen, likely knows none of these songs. :rolleyes:

Mike is fifteen? He's the one I replied to. So lighten up (borrowing your phrase from an earlier post).


As for you Rob, about the humbling, please understand, that I ave Asperger's Syndrome. I have been told by many, that a result of which can be miss perseptions. Often, which you have obviously seen, I tend to take things literally and articulate in a way that is out of context.

Thanks for explaining that Brendan. With that in mind, maybe people won't jump to conclusions about what you are trying to say. Just realize that some of your replies can immediately put someone in a defensive mode. If someone says something that bothers you, take it for what its worth and just let it go.

[Mike Cruz]

Brendan, your attitude is what your attitude is. Whether there is a medical reason for it is another story. I would appologize for any inappropriate comments I have made, but in light of this piece of the puzzle not being previously public knowledge, I don't think one is necessary.

Now that you have divulged what might be a very important clue as to what might be stemming some of your difficulty, I get a clearer picture of the situation. Not saying it is all your fault. Just that any condition that adding to you're being a teenager may (or may not) intensify the relationship between you and your Grandfather. I'm not saying this to be demeaning, it is just that being a teenager, in an of itself, by definition, inherantly, makes you more difficult to get along with. I was once 15. I knew everything then. Apparently, I forgot it all and started learning.

Anyway, while this forum may be an outlet for helping you work out the problems you are having with your family, counceling is likely what you may need. I'm not saying you are crazy, or anything like that. I don't mean this in a derogetory way. I'm suggesting it as a way to deal with a person that can truely help you. Seeing a councelor or therapist is nothing to be ashamed of...more people see them then you would ever imagine...and even more people should!

In my opinion, there are family dynamics that NEED to be addressed in your household. What you are describing sounds like a reality TV show that would be on FOX. I'm not saying ya'll are screwed up (boy, don't get me started on screwed up families), but there are "issues" that really seem to need attention. If, in fact, your Grandfather and brother are doing what you say they are doing, they are being disrespectful, harmful, and hurtful. It may be, as you stated, just in your perception of the events that have transpired. I don't know. I don't know you and your family. It isn't for me to figure out. I don't think it is right for me to even assess what should be done to straighten out what is going on in your house. That would be best for a professional.

While your Aspergers Syndrome wouldn't normally be any of our business (from a woodworking perspective), and I would completely understand if/that you may not want to make that public (because it is personal), it would have been useful information given that you weren't asking how to hand cut a dovetail, but rather how to deal with other people (namely family). Dealing with others means relationships, communication, and interaction. All of which, if I understand Aspergers correctly, are made more difficult.

To answer your question: What do I do to keep people out of my projects? I lock MY shop. This is what made your question so hard. 99% of the people on this forum have their OWN shops. They are not using someone elses space for a shop. Imagine you were in a woodworking class in school or at Woodcraft. When you were done working on your project for the day, would you leave everything out...your project, tools, mess? If you did, would you expect everything to be right where you left it? In the same condition? Probably not, because you are leaving it/them in a place that is not your own and is shared. The same goes for your parents' garage.

How your parents, grandparents, and brother treat you and your stuff is the part of the equation that is best left up to a councelor, therapist, or some sort of professional...not a bunch of yahoo chip makers. ;)

[Mike Heidrick]

Hmmm, Brendan, Maybe make a nice tool chest/tool crib to keep your tools in. Could let your practice some skills, show your parents and grand parents your skills can help with organization in the shop, give you something to do that you love, and will keep folks out of your tools.

[Van Huskey]

Under my Thumb by the rolling stones; Sympathy for the devil, if I am not mistaken is Guns n' roses; never heard of Beast of burden....



Just FYI and not a dig at all but all of the songs are Stones tunes.

In that vein:

Its a SAD DAY when you are trying to build a bread box and be MOTHER"S LITTLE HELPER and your Grandpa has been on you for a LONG LONG WHILE and you just GOTTA GET AWAY, IN ANOTHER LAND, 2000 LIGHT YEARS FROM HOME before you have your 19TH NERVOUS BREAKDOWN so you TRY A LITTLE HARDER but SURPRISE, SURPRISE your OUT OF TIME for stain so you just PAINT IT BLACK.

All written by Mick and Keith except "In another land" which I think Bill Wyman wrote who once in a blue moon traded in 4 strings for a pen, all these tunes are from their London days

Brenden, in the end the folks here make big pieces of wood into smaller ones then hook them together to make larger ones again, 99.9% of us wouldn't know a DSM-IV if it hit us in the head and thus aren't equipped to help you solve interpersonal issues. We didn't get adults when we were 15 and don't get teenagers now that we are older, its the way of the world and you will be on the other side soon enough.

Ask us whether Powermatic or Grizzly is better, how to cut a mortise and tennon or cobble together a jig to do some obscure task and people will wax poetic for pages. On the contrary ask us how to bend adults to your will or how to get a younger sibling to obey your commands and we tend to get grumpy. Use the vast knowledge here to learn the art and the craft of working wood and seek out a different better equipped group of people to help with the other stuff because most of us here just aren't equipped to advise another parents kids in family matters.

[Ryan Welch]

MY question is, how do you folks/did you folks keep your non-woodworking family away from your projects/workshop. 5 trashbags are occupying 20% of my small half of a 1 car garage.


My wife would at times place garbage bags in my shop. Everytime they, or any other nonsense junk, showed up I immediately placed it on the floor in the middle of her kitchen. Once my father-in-law brought a half dozen bags of topsoil, for my wifes garden, and placed them on my tablesaw. When I got home from work, I promptly took all 6 bags and placed them on the hood of his car ( I amy even have opened one of the bags a little). He was a little unhappy but, when I explained my tablesaw was worth more than his POS car he began to get the point.

[Eric Gustafson]

Mike is fifteen? He's the one I replied to. So lighten up (borrowing your phrase from an earlier post).


The only self acknowledged fifteen year old is Brendan. :D And I am light.. :)

[Eric Gustafson]

Under my Thumb by the rolling stones; Sympathy for the devil, if I am not mistaken is Guns n' roses; never heard of Beast of burden....
-Brendan

All Rolling Stones lyrics...


...I ave Asperger's Syndrome...

Thanks
-Brendan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

That explains a lot. I thought there might be more going on here than could be explained by your age. The written word for most of us, is not our most effective way to communicate. Facial expressions, body language, are absent. Often, the intent of the writer is veiled by the starkness of the words.

Along the way I picked up a saying that describes this best: "Words do not convey meaning... they conjur them." Each of us reacts to what is being said or written by all of our past experience and knowledge. But we lack the full experience and meaning of the writer or speaker and all too often get the message wrong.

[Louie Ballis]

My wife would at times place garbage bags in my shop. Everytime they, or any other nonsense junk, showed up I immediately placed it on the floor in the middle of her kitchen. Once my father-in-law brought a half dozen bags of topsoil, for my wifes garden, and placed them on my tablesaw. When I got home from work, I promptly took all 6 bags and placed them on the hood of his car ( I amy even have opened one of the bags a little). He was a little unhappy but, when I explained my tablesaw was worth more than his POS car he began to get the point.


Remind me never to get on your wrong side.

[Leo Devera]

Remember the following:

You are their junior. They are your senior. Respect their ideas because they probably have a damn good reason why they are giving them.

Keep everything really clean.

You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've learned this the hard way. I'd suggest you work on fixing your attitude so that you don't have to. When you hit the age of 18 or so I think you'll really appreciate doing that.

[Mike Cruz]

So, Brendan, are you still with us? What have you taken from our comments?

Again, as I and others have stated, while this most likely isn't the best place for a pitty party, since most of us are in your parents/grandparents' position, please note that is an awsome place to help better your skills and knowledge, and we are more that happy to help you do that. Ask question after question about woodworking, jointery, tools, etc. You'll get enthusiastic answers and tips.

So, you still listening in?

[Mark Kosmowski]

So the OP essentially said he is frustrated. It seems that most of the responses are either "clean up after each session" (good advice, even without the issue at hand) or "it's your own fault you're frustrated". Is this the best a group of adults, many even parents of grown children, with hundreds of years of life experience can offer?

Learning to deal with frustration is a necessary skill that isn't explicitly taught in school. While none of us are privy to the exact family dynamics going on with the OP, I'll share some things I have learned about dealing with frustration. First, when you're frustrated, don't act. In woodworking, the last thing I need is to be handling a sharp chisel while upset at my project. The expected outcome in this case is damage to the project, accentuated by the "special red stain".

Also, it is best not to act with people when frustrated either. Instead, take time to cool down and try to understand what is going on - understand what and why you are angry about. Sometimes this may take a couple days - as with all skills, this ability will improve with practice. As an example from my life, yesterday there was something wrong with the gas pump card reader and I needed to go in and wait in a long line before I could even address the issue. As I was in line, I was angry about having my time stolen. However, I know that acting angry in this situation will not help anything.

So I took a big, deep breath and slowly let it out to force myself to relax a little. Then I considered the situation. No one was actively doing this to me, it was one of those angry at the situation moments. I didn't like it, but now I could decide to do my best to be calm and not act angry when speaking with the cashier to resolve the issue, because she hadn't done anything to cause the situation and it would be wrong for me to inflict anger upon her.

At this point, if I was 15 and in the OP's situation, I would be thinking, "Aha! But in my case someone IS at fault, namely grandpa!" My response is still, do not act in anger. Instead, first assess your most desired outcome, as well as a variety of alternative outcomes that are still acceptable. Next, try to understand the situation. This is the hard part. Maybe it is time to have a whole family talk. If you do this, you absolutely need to be calm while discussing things, and pay attention to your feelings - if you start getting upset, maybe you need to say, "I am starting to get upset about this, may I have a short break to relax again?"

Maybe even have two conversations. The first to understand why things are happening. Wait until you have this understanding before then trying to figure out with your family, as part of your family, how things can be done differently to prevent or reduce the frustrating situations in the future. This action stage will more than likely involve compromise. Maybe you will need to clean up after each session, perhaps including putting all of the tools away and your project work to a designated area.

There will always be things you don't know or understand about frustrating situations. These unknown things are usually either the causes or worsenings of the frustration. I don't know very much about your situation, but here are some things to consider. Maybe your grandfather knows his tablesaw isn't safe to use, but feels it is better to have it around then none at all. Maybe there is tension between your parents and your grandfather that everyone is keeping you insulated from, but it is still there and spills over. Assuming it is your parents' house, consider that your grandfather is now a guest and no longer has the same freedom he had when he was the master of his own domain. You probably chafe at your desire for, but lack of, this sort of freedom. Imagine how much worse it must be to have once had this freedom and have to have given it up.

I sincerely hope that your family is suitable for open discussions of your frustrations. Also, remember that learning to deal with frustrations is more important than the woodworking. If you need to take some time off from your hobby to iron out how to avoid these frustrations in the future, it will be well worth it.

I hope everything goes well with you.

[Dan Forman]

Brenen--- I'll second what Mark (above) has said, and add a couple of things. It sounds to me like a family council might be the next step. I think you will need to have your parents involved, both as interested parties, and as moderators. As I'm sure you are already aware, Asperger's can make clear communication all the more difficult, so having your parents there might help to keep things from going off track. And, it being their house and garage, they get to have their say too. You may have to try extra hard to appreciate the point of view of others, as that ability too is often affected by Asperger's.

Rereading your first few posts, I see language like "forced him to use..." and "guidelines that I will make them sign...". I know that I would not respond very positively to that sort of approach, would you? Just as the success of a woodworking project is dependent on the skills of the craftsman, the skillful communicator will have better results than the unskillful.

So, the skillful way to approach this would be to ask for their cooperation, and come up with a set of guidelines that everyone will follow - you, your parents, grandfather, and your younger brother. This will involve everyone's input, not just something that you hand them to sign off on. The needs of everyone else are just as important as you own.

State how you feel about what has happened to your projects without blaming the other person. This is called an "I statement" For example: "I feel angry when I come out to the shop and find my project on the floor with the finish ruined, or find my desktop banged up. What can we do so that I don't have to worry about my projects being damaged when I'm not around?" In this way, you invite them to be a part of the solution, rather than dictating terms, or blaming them for your feelings. They will be much more likely to respond in a helpful way.

Now, the solution may require you to make some changes too, like putting tools away, and keeping project parts out of harms way. The important thing is finding a solution, not maintaining all of your current habits, so be prepare to give some in order to gain some. Get used to it, because even as an adult you will have to do a lot of that, or else you will be spending a lot of time by yourself.

Something that nobody has mentioned yet, is that your grandfather's brain may not be working as well as it used to. He might be forgetful and not fully aware of the consequences of his actions. If so, it's not really his fault, it's just something that will happen to most of us if we get old enough. Some people may be affected at an earlier age than others. This of course is just a guess, and should be taken as such, but might explain something about his behavior and lack of judgment in handling your projects. If that is indeed the case, you will have to work around that, and take responsibility for the safety of your projects, as you won't be able to depend on his judgment. This might be something you should ask your parents about, to get their opinion on. Again, this is just a guess on my part, based on very little information, but it could be one explanation of what is happening.

Good luck on your quest.

Dan

[Brendan Plavis]

Brenen--- I'll second what Mark (above) has said, and add a couple of things. It sounds to me like a family council might be the next step. I think you will need to have your parents involved, both as interested parties, and as moderators. As I'm sure you are already aware, Asperger's can make clear communication all the more difficult, so having your parents there might help to keep things from going off track. And, it being their house and garage, they get to have their say too. You may have to try extra hard to appreciate the point of view of others, as that ability too is often affected by Asperger's.

Rereading your first few posts, I see language like "forced him to use..." and "guidelines that I will make them sign...". I know that I would not respond very positively to that sort of approach, would you? Just as the success of a woodworking project is dependent on the skills of the craftsman, the skillful communicator will have better results than the unskillful.

So, the skillful way to approach this would be to ask for their cooperation, and come up with a set of guidelines that everyone will follow - you, your parents, grandfather, and your younger brother. This will involve everyone's input, not just something that you hand them to sign off on. The needs of everyone else are just as important as you own.

State how you feel about what has happened to your projects without blaming the other person. This is called an "I statement" For example: "I feel angry when I come out to the shop and find my project on the floor with the finish ruined, or find my desktop banged up. What can we do so that I don't have to worry about my projects being damaged when I'm not around?" In this way, you invite them to be a part of the solution, rather than dictating terms, or blaming them for your feelings. They will be much more likely to respond in a helpful way.

Now, the solution may require you to make some changes too, like putting tools away, and keeping project parts out of harms way. The important thing is finding a solution, not maintaining all of your current habits, so be prepare to give some in order to gain some. Get used to it, because even as an adult you will have to do a lot of that, or else you will be spending a lot of time by yourself.

Something that nobody has mentioned yet, is that your grandfather's brain may not be working as well as it used to. He might be forgetful and not fully aware of the consequences of his actions. If so, it's not really his fault, it's just something that will happen to most of us if we get old enough. Some people may be affected at an earlier age than others. This of course is just a guess, and should be taken as such, but might explain something about his behavior and lack of judgment in handling your projects. If that is indeed the case, you will have to work around that, and take responsibility for the safety of your projects, as you won't be able to depend on his judgment. This might be something you should ask your parents about, to get their opinion on. Again, this is just a guess on my part, based on very little information, but it could be one explanation of what is happening.

Good luck on your quest.

Dan

Hes mentally healthy....

But since then I have put up a pegboard and a rack that I hang anything I can on.. So that helps with organization. I do have to put the power tools on the bench, as its kinda hard to hang a drill, or even more so a mitre saw from a pegboard... :)

-Brendan

[Leo Devera]

Hes mentally healthy....

But since then I have put up a pegboard and a rack that I hang anything I can on.. So that helps with organization. I do have to put the power tools on the bench, as its kinda hard to hang a drill, or even more so a mitre saw from a pegboard... :)

-Brendan

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/9323478.jpg

As long as your drill is a t-handle, something like that would be just what you need to hang it. If it is a pistol grip then it won't work.

[Brendan Plavis]

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/9323478.jpg

As long as your drill is a t-handle, something like that would be just what you need to hang it. If it is a pistol grip then it won't work.

Its a wired one, so its a pistol grip(I do also have a crap wireless that isnt even fit to hang on the garbage can)