Gun Bluing on Planes?

[Matthew Dworman]

Has anyone here applied gun bluing to the sole and sides of your planes? Even with camelia oil, my planes are in constant need of de-rusting in my basement shop. A quick fix with the rust eraser blocks, but I get nervous about creating hollows from repeated use - I know that bluing would help quell the rust, but how would it hold up in use? I was curious if this would have a positive or negative effect in performance...

There must be a quick reason why this is a stupid idea, because I haven't seen it done before, but...

Anyone here try it?

[Adam Woznicki]

There are mainly 2 different types of bluing, cold and hot.

Cold bluing is pretty easy but in my experience does nothing to keep things from rusting.

Hot bluing is complicated and something only a gunsmith would tackle. I don't think even that would do much, still got to keep your guns oiled.

But I do think it would look cool!

[David Weaver]

Has anyone here applied gun bluing to the sole and sides of your planes? Even with camelia oil, my planes are in constant need of de-rusting in my basement shop. A quick fix with the rust eraser blocks, but I get nervous about creating hollows from repeated use - I know that bluing would help quell the rust, but how would it hold up in use? I was curious if this would have a positive or negative effect in performance...

There must be a quick reason why this is a stupid idea, because I haven't seen it done before, but...

Anyone here try it?

Paste wax works really well on planes, a lot better than camelia oil. On the cheeks, you won't wear it off quickly.

I have blued planes where the sides were so bad that I had to lap them back to fresh metal, and I thought they looked a little gawdy. Brownells oxpho blue doesn't really make them look original, but somehow they look a little better than they do with freshly lapped sides. I can't say it provided that much rust protection. The cast blues like crazy with oxpho blue, very nice how easy it comes out pretty dark. If you ever did get a spot of rust on it, you could sand it off and reblue the side with a swab.

Anyway, I wouldn't trust it as a rust solution - you're still going to touch the plane, and the plane is still going to be exposed to moisture you wouldn't expose a gun to long-term.

Another scorched earth solution is to put a very thin film of blonde shellac on the cheeks of your plane. You can always take it off later with alcohol. It works very well - I've done it to several planes.

[Jeff Willard]

The constant abrasion and handling would make this an expensive, and short term solution. Notice the old Winchester in the attached photo. That gun was originally blued. At this point, maybe 5-10% remains.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Matt, Call me tonight to discuss. You've got the number.

Dave

[David Cefai]

I've found that paste wax works best to keep rust away. Occasionally wax the sides. The bottom gets waxed regularly.

[Tony Shea]

I've Oxpho Blued a few older plane irons that belonged to some of my older Stanleys that get use. I did it just because I wasn't fond of the glare of the polished blades after working on them to get rust off and to beautify them. I also did it for a small amount of rust prevention. It does help a smidgen with rust but by no means protects from it. Like others stated, guns will rust if left unoiled. And bluing, especially cold blueing, will no hold up well to constant wear such as a plane's sole and on my iron's bottoms. But these are not the reasons I did it. I love the looks of a good bluing job and am also a gun nut. I used some irons to try out the oxpho blue before I attempted to reblue some of my guns. Don't worry, I didn't reblue my old 1918 Winchester 94.

[David Weaver]

side note - if you have any planes where the lacquer (or whatever it is on them) wore off the chipbreaker, they're also soft and they blue really well as long as no finish is on them. Actually, they turn jet black, and they look really cool that way - match the japanning.

A lot of the basket case bailey planes I've gotten have no finish whatsoever left on the chipbreaker, but the chipbreaker is usually fine, and the dark black bluing looks a whole lot better than wire wheel or abrasive pad skidmarks.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I have a dehumidifier in the basement. That keeps things dry and tidy.

[Jeff Wittrock]

I used to use a "Plumb Brown" finish on metal parts for muzzle loading rifles. It did seem to hold up better than cold bluing (it was applied to heated metal), at least from a wear stand point.

I don't think it did much for rust prevention, although for better or worse, the plum brown color did a good job of hiding rust :o.

-Jeff

[Jim Koepke]

There are a lot of threads in various parts of the Creek about rust prevention.

Bob Smalser has one here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=28340

Others can be found by using the search button towards the top of the screen.

A dehumidifier can help if the temp does not go below freezing.
Others use cabinet heaters. If my memory is working they are called golden rods. They are also used inside of pianos.

I live in a very wet area and so far have not had too much trouble.

jim

[Matthew Dworman]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info. I didn't realize that bluing is not durable. Exactly why I asked the question here - I knew I would get a knowledgeable response....

[David Weaver]

I used to use a "Plumb Brown" finish on metal parts for muzzle loading rifles. It did seem to hold up better than cold bluing (it was applied to heated metal), at least from a wear stand point.

I don't think it did much for rust prevention, although for better or worse, the plum brown color did a good job of hiding rust :o.

-Jeff

When you use it, can you tell if it's got phosphoric acid in it like the oxpho blue? Just curious how it works. It sounds like a good option from a looks standpoint. What looks good on a receiver or a worn octagonal barrel looks good on antique planes, too.

[Jeff Wittrock]

When you use it, can you tell if it's got phosphoric acid in it like the oxpho blue? Just curious how it works. It sounds like a good option from a looks standpoint. What looks good on a receiver or a worn octagonal barrel looks good on antique planes, too.

After seeing your question I became curious. I remember the brand I used at the time was Birchwood Casey, so I went on their website and read the MSDS.

Sodium Nitrate 10%
Potassium Chlorate 10%
Copper Chloride 5%
Nitric Acid 4%
Water 71%

I have not use it in 25 years, so I don't know if anything has changed. For some reason I seem to remember reading on the label that it contained mercury back then, but it has been 25 years, and my memory isn't so good.

Mercury or no Mercury, I wouldn't want to drink the stuff. These MSDS sheets always give me the impression that we are just one spill away from a sudden death.

-Jeff

[Stanley Covington]

This is my first post. I have been lurking and learning. It seems to be a fine group.
By way of introduction, my background is construction, although I put myself through engineering school working as a carpenter and cabinetmaker. Woodworking and woodcarving are now only hobbies, along with building custom rifles. Since I am currently working/living in Tokyo, where private ownership of firearms is nearly impossible, rifle building is out of the question. That leaves woodworking (in a very small apartment under the stern eyes of the Mistress of the Blue Horizons) as the sole means available to preserve my endangered sanity.
There are two kinds of “bluing” used on guns. One is chemical bluing (both hot and cold), which is a relatively recent invention, and the other is “rust bluing.” Chemical bluing is relatively easy to apply, and when done properly, can make a very shiny surface. The old Smith & Wesson revolvers are an excellent example of beautiful bluing. The downside is that it is very thin, easily worn through, and provides little protection from corrosion. By comparison, rust bluing is more time consuming and labor intensive, but it is much tougher, and provides better protection against corrosion and wear since the coating created is harder than the steel it protects. Only the top custom gunmakers offer this finish.

I first used the rust blue method when building my second flintlock longrifle after reading an article by John Bivens. I have used this method on knives and several of my metal woodworking tools also with excellent results. It doesn't take special tanks or expensive chemicals. However, since this is not a forum on metal finishing, and wouldn’t I want to bore everyone, I will refrain from going into the details. If you are interested in hearing more, let me know.
Cheers

[Jim Koepke]

Stanley,

Welcome to the Creek and I am glad you put your toe in the water.

Since the bluing could be used on the side of old planes it seems it would be OK here. We often discuss rust removal and making or repairing old parts for our tools, so it wouldn't be that you were crossing a line that has been blurred many times.

In fact, if you look in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs there are a couple of posts that go into bluing.

I know I would be interested. It is only my opinion, but it seems planes look better with a patina on the sides than fresh scratches from being lapped.

jim

[Phil Maddox]

Have you thought about using a dehumidifier in your shop? Sounds like you have waaaay too much moisture if your tools are rusting that much. They can take a while to "suck" the moisture out of the air but you should see a difference.

Are you using a humidifier for the rest of the house by chance? Most people get carried away with these.

Sorry to avoid the question about "bluing" - I know nothing about it.

Good luck

Phil

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley,

I know I would be interested. It is only my opinion, but it seems planes look better with a patina on the sides than fresh scratches from being lapped.

jim

OK.

First, you need something to start the rust. Brownells has a chemical by Pilkington called Classic American Rust Blue. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9815/Product/PILKINGTON_CLASSIC_AMERICAN_RUST_BLUE

Its a it pricey, but it works. Another option is to partially neutralize diluted nitric acid with iron filings or un-oiled steel wool. This works better in my experience, but some states make it difficult to get nitric acid since it can be used to make explosives. In addition, the process of making this liquid must be done carefully or you can get badly burned.

In any case, the steel to be blued must be bare, rust free, and oil free. Protect any bare metal you don't want to rust with clear lacquer or other paint you can remove later with solvents.

The bluing chemical is spread onto the metal with swabs (wear rubber gloves and eye protection) evenly, and allowed to sit. How long depends on temperature and humidity. If it is very dry where you are, a humid place needs to be found or made. John Bivens made a box with a heating element and water source to make a warm, damp environment. The goal is to cause the metal to rust shallowly and evenly. The rust as it develops needs to be even and velvety, not in clumps, as clumps indicate that deep rusting is occuring. Not what we want. It takes a little bit of experimenting to get this right, but once you figure it out, the subsequent rustings will be no problem.

4 to 8 to 12 hours later (depending on temp and humidity), you then "card" this rust with a soft steel brush. Brownells also sells these. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24795/Product/HAND_CARDING_BRUSH Carding means to run the brush over the rust removing the lose stuff, and leaving the more solid iron oxide. Be very careful not to get oil or oily fingerprints on the rusted surfaces or the final product will have splotches. Fortunately, if you have to you can start over again by wet sanding down to bare metal and beginning again.

You don't want to remove all the rust, but you do want to remove the loose rust. Repeat this process of chemical treatment, rusting and carding until you have a very smooth, evenly rusted surface. Some people like this rusted surface all by itself. With an application of oil, it is absolutely authentic for antique firearms replicas like muskets and longrifles. The next steps are what makes it a durable finish.

Get a container large enough to hold the metal being rust blued, fill it with distilled water (tap water may or may not work well, depending on your area), and bring it to a hard boil. Put the item into the water and let it boil for a time. Another option is steam, if you have a good source. The heat and moisture change the iron oxides (wikipedia describes the change) into a much harder, black form of iron oxide. Card and repeat.

If it will fit into a pressure cooker, even better as the temps will get higher than boiling.

Stop the rust using oil. Voila.

Don't forget the oil, or it will continue to rust and ruin your efforts. I use Corrosion Block. It stops the rusting process immediately and removes the pore water. No, I don't profit from sales of Corrosion Block. It was recommended to me 15 years ago by a helicopter mechanic as a way to stop seawater from immediately ruining vacuum pumps used to initiate siphon pumps in the San Francisco Bay. It worked where nothing else did.

Not as shiny as bluing, but harder and more durable.

I did this to one of my carbon-steel patch knives (for loading muzzleloading rifles) many years ago. My wife took a liking to it, and now uses it in the kitchen everyday as a paring knife. She is hard on knives, and cleans it with a Scotchpad and hot soapy water (it has a curly maple handle so I have convinced her to not put it in the dishwasher). If she doesn't dry it well, the bare-metal cutting edge sometimes rust, but not the rust-blued sides of the blade.

People who know bluing will be confused by the color/patina, and amazed at the durability.

Stan

[Adam Woznicki]

Thanks a lot Stanley, I didn't know about that process. Sound good.

I don't know if I'll use it with tools, but it's got me thinking about my Crosman 102.


Welcome to the forum.

[William M Johnson]

One more note on rust bluing. I have blued/ browned the barrels on many nice side by side shotguns (including my pair of 12 and 20 gauge Purdeys). If you boil between bluing applications the finish gets so hard that you cannot remove it with steel wool.

It is a great finish, requires little equipment and is impossible to screw up. The only problem is that it might take 5 - 10 applications/boilings. Also the more highly polished the steel/iron the more difficult it is to get it rusting.

Bill

[Jim Koepke]

Stanley and William,

Thanks for the information.

Now I have to find a pot to boil a plane in. I am sure my wife wouldn't like me using the good cookware.

jim

[Stanley Covington]

William is absolutely correct about how hard this finish will become of so desired. I did this once by mistake. I bought an old Disston No.12 ripsaw at a pawnshop when I was a college student. The handle was shot, and the blade was rusted.. black. I don't know how it got black, but it was in a plastic bucket with a bunch of other rusted tools when I bought it. I tried to clean the rust off with a wire wheel, and removed all the loose stuff, but after that, the wire wheel would only polish it. That was about 30 years ago. I am still using that saw, and the shiny black finish is still perfect. Hard stuff.

He is also right about the number of applications. It is time consuming.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley and William,

Now I have to find a pot to boil a plane in. I am sure my wife wouldn't like me using the good cookware.

jim

Jim:

An old trick is to buy a piece of tin rain gutter the right length for your plane, and solder on end caps. Cheap and easy. Be sure you test it for watertightness before you put it on the stove. The first time I used a raingutter pan, I didn't pay close attention and it leaked all over the stove. The Mistress of the Blue Horizons was wroth.

Stan