Agonizing Over Jointer Purchase

[Charlie Gummer]

I've been looking for months now for a deal on a 6" jointer. I've read nearly every post on SMC regarding the merits of jointer size and realize that an 8" is what I will ultimately end up. My wife and I are currently renting our house from her parents and we do not have a 220V outlet in the garage. We're going to be in this house most likely until I finish my M.S. (~ 2 years). At this point I'm resigned to getting a 6" jointer as it's better than working around not having one at all. I currently have a DW735 13" planer and am planning to make a sled to face joint wider stock.

All of the deals that I've seen come up recently on used equipment in my area have been lackluster at best. I've checked in at both of the local HD's as to whether or not the Ridgid 6-1/8 would be clearanced out but no luck there either.

I'm most recently prompted by the sale (Woodcraft and others) on the JET JJ-6CS. I have a JET JPS10 table saw and have been quite pleased with both the quality of the machine and the customer service.

My choice has come down to the JET and the Grizzly GO452. With the sale they're very similar in price. I could save $70 with the Grizzly by driving up to Bellingham to pick it up. I've compiled the following Pro/Con list:

JET Pro's:

- Handwheel's out front for both infeed and outfeed table adjustment
- Quick change knife system
- Sale price

JET Con's:

- No mobile base

Grizzly Pro's:

- Very slightly longer table (mostly a wash)
- Built-in mobile base

Grizzly Con's:

- Handle on the infeed table adjustment. Having never owned a jointer I'm not sure if this would immediately be a 'con'
- No 'quick change' knife system

Like many others, my 'shop' is a garage. Thankfully my wife has never insisted on actually putting cars in the garage but I"m still limited on space so the mobile base is a must in either case.

Ultimately my question boils down to: is the quick change knife system on the JET and the handwheels out front worth the extra money (the cost of the mobile base)? Are the knives that much easier to set on the JET?

If I'm going to go with the JET I have to decide by tomorrow (most likely will decide before tonight). Any insight / experience would be most appreciated.

Thanks!
Charlie

[lowell holmes]

I have the 6" Jet. I like it. The wheel controls are convenient to use. I particularily appreciate thr rase in adjusting the outfeed to eliminate snipe.

[Jack Wilson]

I know money can be an issue many times, but have you looked at the G0586 for $575? Its an 8" @ a fair price and you cant 'upgrade' 2" onto your jointer later on. 220V isn't hard to run, I could step you thru it if you have room in your panel box and can get wire easily enough into your garage. Maybe you have a sub panel in the garage already?
Anyways, its something to think about before you invest in a machine then later regret your purchase because of its size, however that may not be the case at all.

That's my .02. pm me if you'd like

[Carroll Courtney]

I just done a search on CL's in Washington and found several in the first town that I pick.If your looking for a deal on used then this is the way to go,but check it out carefully.Post some pics of your jointer,just because their 8" does not mean only 220v.Good luck---Carroll

[Cary Falk]

The quick change knives are a plus. I wouldn't pay extra for wheels now that I have had both. The Delta DJ20 is 120V/240V. I don't think it is worth the asking price though. If you can't find used, then I would probably go with the Jet. The Jet name will command a better value even though Jet and Grizzly quality is the same.

[Bob Luciano]

Partially on topic. I am curious about maintenance on the built in wheels. I mean if they were to get a bit damp would it require tipping or lifting a machine to maintain them?

[glenn bradley]

My opinions fall in with others here: wheels vs. levers turned out to be a non-issue even though I agonized over it for months. Since you will probably sell this machine and go to a larger machine (with a spiral cutter of course) I would go Jet even though I am a Grizzly fan. The Jets historically re-sell at a higher price and the QS knives are a big plus.

I tend to approach these things two ways; save up (doing without until the pennies stack up) and get the one you really need -or- get a temporary one as cheaply as possible and when you sell it, consider the loss as "rent".

P.s. found PostingID: 1687233245 and others very quickly on CL.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Charlie, I have the jet. I'm not in love with it, but it does the job.

The wheels might seem convenient, but they actually don't work that well. I've stripped the machine apart, cleaned and lubed everything, and they are still pretty hard to turn. I have checked new versions of my machine out at both Rockler and Woodcraft and even the new ones seem to have the same issue.

I have been up to the Grizzly facility in bellingham when I was on my way up to Whistler... I actually like the lever system on their machines much more. The tables move effortlessly.

We have a number of woodworking stores in the area (rockler, woodcraft, grizzly), so I suggest going to the stores and checking the machines out for yourself.

But you're at a level where you could afford to buy a used machine and sell it for about the price you bought it for. It's a super low-risk situation.

[Joe Chritz]

Check the HD's again. My local one here (Michigan) has a Ridgid jointer for $299.

I had that one for a while and it is a steal at $300.

Joe

[Mark Kosmowski]

How about just saving up for the 8" you really want at the new place and until then face jointing everything with the planer sled and either rip, use router table or a #7 or #8 with fence for edges?

I have the Ridgid 6" jointer and decided it has really short beds while milling some 6' long stock tonight.

It sounds like you don't think you'll be happy with a 110V jointer. There are many ways to mill stock without a jointer. Might be best to not spend money on something you'll not be happy with.

Good luck with whatever road you take.

[Charlie Gummer]

Thanks for all of the replies. I've had a nice opportunity today to take some time and think about the jointer. I agree with many and am of the opinion now that settling for a 6" is just not going to cut it.

I have a Stanley #7 with Hock iron and chipbreaker that I've fettled for quite some time and have in fairly decent shape. I do quite enjoy using hand tools and have been doing more so recently.

While in this more 'zen' mindset I thought a bit about what may be involved in running a 220 V line to the garage. I was in the laundry room checking the main house panel to see if there was space to run another circuit when the solution hit me. Like many other solutions this one has literally stared me in the face every time I use my shop:

147959

This hot water heater is approximately 5 feet from my table saw. If I'm not mistaken that's a 220 V junction box. Ha!

Having never done any electrical work, what would be involved in replacing this junction box with a receptacle? My thought is to unplug the water heater to use the jointer.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[Joe A Faulkner]

Before tapping into your hot water heater circuit, locate the main panel and see if you have a space for a 220 breaker and an easy way to get wire from the panel to the garrage.

Also, you might broaden your search on craigs list for a used jointer to the Seattle area. I recently took a two hour road trip to pick up a 6" jointer for $100. Two weeks ago, I saw a grizzly for $75. It sold in less than 3 hours. Of course in your market, prices may vary, but if you are patient, I'm guessing you can find a deal. Good luck

[Brian Cover]

That is very easy to do. Mount a single receptacle box close to the junction box. The water heater is 30 amps, so you will need to buy a 30 amp outlet and 2 plugs, one for the water heater and one for the jointer. After you turn off the breaker, open the existing J box and run #10 wire from the outlet to the wires in the J box. Use 2 black and a green for ground. DO NOT use white. Green ground wire goes to the green screw on the outlet. Next attach the plugs to the cords; one for the water heater and one for the jointer. The only fly in this is that the jointer is most likely a 20 amp device, so the 30 amp breaker for the water heater will not protect the motor in the jointer.

[Charlie Gummer]

That is very easy to do. Mount a single receptacle box close to the junction box. The water heater is 30 amps, so you will need to buy a 30 amp outlet and 2 plugs, one for the water heater and one for the jointer. After you turn off the breaker, open the existing J box and run #10 wire from the outlet to the wires in the J box. Use 2 black and a green for ground. DO NOT use white. Green ground wire goes to the green screw on the outlet. Next attach the plugs to the cords; one for the water heater and one for the jointer. The only fly in this is that the jointer is most likely a 20 amp device, so the 30 amp breaker for the water heater will not protect the motor in the jointer.

Thanks Brian! I'm going to sit down with the FIL this week...now G0586 or G0490...

[Rick Prosser]

I don't think NEC allows plug connector on water heater except by exception? Might want to check the local codes.

[Van Huskey]

I don't think NEC allows plug connector on water heater except by exception? Might want to check the local codes.


You are correct HOWEVER some localities allow plug-in water heaters to satisfy the disconnect within site rule, though it is being applied incorrectly. Water heaters are defined as an appliance, by the definition of appliance in Article 100. The article that covers appliances in the 2002 NEC is 422. Water heaters are specifically mentioned in 422.13. Section 422.30 requires a disconnecting means for appliances in accordance with Part III of Article 422. According to 422.31(B) "the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position." The practice of using cords and plugs is covered in 422.16(A), which limits the use of flexible cords to connect appliances to those applications that meet certain conditions. Condition (1) is "to facilitate their frequent interchange or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration." Water heaters do not require frequent interchange nor do they usually transmit vibration or noise through the wiring methods. Condition (2) is where "the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection." Usually in order to determine if an appliance is intended to be cord-and-plug connected, the appliance would come with the cord attached from the factory, or "identified for flexible cord connection" it would be listed and labeled for cord-and-plug connection. In most water heater installations a disconnect switch is located adjacent to the water heater to meet the disconnect requirements of 422.30.

Again some locales allow plug and receptacle but it does not meet NEC. There are simple ways to wire this within NEC but possibly outside local codes so I will not go into it. In the end it would be far better to just pull a homerun.


PS I am NOT an electrician but I have wired the two homes I built and have a copy of the NEC. So YMMV.

[Charlie Gummer]

147971

Interesting food for thought. Am I reading the panel correctly in that there is not room for an available 220V breaker?

[Jason White]

I have the RIDGID jointer and it's a nice little machine. Only occasionally do I wish for an 8" (mostly for the longer infeed & outfeed tables).

Don't tap the box feeding your water heater! Totally illegal. Water heaters must be hard-wired.

If it's easy enough to run cable from the panel to where you want the jointer, just do that. A very easy job if you're comfortable working inside a service panel. I've done it many times before and I'm not an electrician. Just be sure to use a big enough double-pole breaker and the correct gauge wire for the listed amp draw on the jointer. My guess is that 12/2 romex or MC and a 20-amp breaker is big enough, but check the amp draw listed on the motor first.

Jason



I've been looking for months now for a deal on a 6" jointer. I've read nearly every post on SMC regarding the merits of jointer size and realize that an 8" is what I will ultimately end up. My wife and I are currently renting our house from her parents and we do not have a 220V outlet in the garage. We're going to be in this house most likely until I finish my M.S. (~ 2 years). At this point I'm resigned to getting a 6" jointer as it's better than working around not having one at all. I currently have a DW735 13" planer and am planning to make a sled to face joint wider stock.

All of the deals that I've seen come up recently on used equipment in my area have been lackluster at best. I've checked in at both of the local HD's as to whether or not the Ridgid 6-1/8 would be clearanced out but no luck there either.

I'm most recently prompted by the sale (Woodcraft and others) on the JET JJ-6CS. I have a JET JPS10 table saw and have been quite pleased with both the quality of the machine and the customer service.

My choice has come down to the JET and the Grizzly GO452. With the sale they're very similar in price. I could save $70 with the Grizzly by driving up to Bellingham to pick it up. I've compiled the following Pro/Con list:

JET Pro's:

- Handwheel's out front for both infeed and outfeed table adjustment
- Quick change knife system
- Sale price

JET Con's:

- No mobile base

Grizzly Pro's:

- Very slightly longer table (mostly a wash)
- Built-in mobile base

Grizzly Con's:

- Handle on the infeed table adjustment. Having never owned a jointer I'm not sure if this would immediately be a 'con'
- No 'quick change' knife system

Like many others, my 'shop' is a garage. Thankfully my wife has never insisted on actually putting cars in the garage but I"m still limited on space so the mobile base is a must in either case.

Ultimately my question boils down to: is the quick change knife system on the JET and the handwheels out front worth the extra money (the cost of the mobile base)? Are the knives that much easier to set on the JET?

If I'm going to go with the JET I have to decide by tomorrow (most likely will decide before tonight). Any insight / experience would be most appreciated.

Thanks!
Charlie

[Charlie Gummer]

For grins; the rest of the main panel for the house.

147979

147980

It doesn't look like I have much of a chance adding a 220V breaker. Am I missing something.

(Sorry for the quality of the pics, all I had to hand was my phone)

[Rick Davidson]

Depending on where your dryer is I would rather pull from the dryer outlet rater then the hot water heater.

[scott vroom]

I'd be concerned about connecting a motor designed for a 20amp circuit to a 30amp circuit breaker. In the event of an overload the motor could become damaged.

Have you considered running 220V/20amp circuit from your service panel to the garage. Better yet, run a 60amp circuit from the service main panel to a garage subpanel. You can then run multiple 20amp circuits to service your shop off the subpanel. This is what I did and it was easy. The big question is whether you can make the wire run from the main panel to the garage. Unless you have access inside the walls, you would need to run wires through surface conduit to the garage.

[Brian Kincaid]

I'd be concerned about connecting a motor designed for a 20amp circuit to a 30amp circuit breaker.

The breaker is for the wires in the wall not the motor. Your motor should have overload protection built into the start switch/wire box.

-Brian

[Stephen Henderson]

I just saw that Jet has a promotion on it's closed stand 6" jointer.

Seems to me it was $499. I just picked up a used craftsman one in great shape for half that, but if i'd seen the Jet special first, I'd have bought that instead. For the life of me though, I can't remember where i saw it. I'll poke around and if I find it, I'll send a link.

Stephen

[Stephen Henderson]

Here it is....

http://www.amazon.com/708457K-JJ-6CSX-Jointer-230-Volt-1-Phase/dp/B00006ANS5

[Charlie Gummer]

That's the deal I've been looking at. It's currently being offered through several vendors w/free shipping. I'm still torn; at this point I'm leaning towards holding off on the jointer altogether until I have a shop with 220V power. Stupid electrical codes.

I can face joint with the planer and I've seen several jigs for straight-line edge jointing with the table saw...that and I can always use more practice with my #7...

[Jason White]

Looks like you've got a 60 or 100 amp panel. Either replace with with a 200 amp panel or add a sub-panel to your existing one. Make sure that thing is grounded, too (and not just to the plumbing -- you want rods in the ground).

Jason



For grins; the rest of the main panel for the house.

147979

147980

It doesn't look like I have much of a chance adding a 220V breaker. Am I missing something.

(Sorry for the quality of the pics, all I had to hand was my phone)

[Keith Weber]

Am I reading the panel correctly in that there is not room for an available 220V breaker?

Yeah Charlie,

Looks like you're full on both the Main and the Subpanel. I wouldn't mess with your water heater circuit. If it were me, I'd be upgrading the panels. But, as you mentioned in an earlier post, you don't have much/any experience working with electricity, so I'd seek some professional or at least experienced help with that.

Way too often on these forums I see people telling others without experience how easy it is to do your own electrical work. I've had to rip out and totally redo so many "fire/shock-hazard" electrical circuits because the DIY Electrician that did them didn't understand stuff like ampacity, conduit fill, voltage drops, bonding, etc. I'm not saying anything about the credibility of those that have replied to you (they could very well be much more qualified than me), but just as a general statement regarding electrical advice on the Internet, you usually get what you pay for. Other forums I frequent have policies prohibiting the discussion of house/shop wiring for obvious safety and liability reasons. Like they used to say on NYPD Blue... "let's be careful out there!"

On a different note, I'll bet there's more people out there wishing that they'd gone with an 8" than a 6" jointer than vice versa.

Keith (who sometimes wonders if he should have looked for a 24" jointer instead of settling for a 16")

[Charlie Gummer]

Yeah Charlie,

Looks like you're full on both the Main and the Subpanel. I wouldn't mess with your water heater circuit. If it were me, I'd be upgrading the panels. But, as you mentioned in an earlier post, you don't have much/any experience working with electricity, so I'd seek some professional or at least experienced help with that.

Way too often on these forums I see people telling others without experience how easy it is to do your own electrical work. I've had to rip out and totally redo so many "fire/shock-hazard" electrical circuits because the DIY Electrician that did them didn't understand stuff like ampacity, conduit fill, voltage drops, bonding, etc. I'm not saying anything about the credibility of those that have replied to you (they could very well be much more qualified than me), but just as a general statement regarding electrical advice on the Internet, you usually get what you pay for. Other forums I frequent have policies prohibiting the discussion of house/shop wiring for obvious safety and liability reasons. Like they used to say on NYPD Blue... "let's be careful out there!"

On a different note, I'll bet there's more people out there wishing that they'd gone with an 8" than a 6" jointer than vice versa.

Keith (who sometimes wonders if he should have looked for a 24" jointer instead of settling for a 16")

Thanks for the sanity check Keith, that does sound more reasonable. There is another factor in this equation that has to do with the nature of the property. My wife and I live in one of two houses that were originally her grandparents. Both houses plus the yard (er..field) in front and the large empty lot in the back comprise ~ 5.5-6 acres. My wifes parents had no intention of managing rental properties after her grandfather passed two years ago. The whole property including both houses was on the verge of being sold immediately before the bubble burst and the horsemen showed up. That said, my inlaws have made some major, unplanned upgrades (new windows, fireplace insert etc.) to the houses that have really improved the rentability of both houses. Unfortunately I don't see making any more modifications to this property.

Thank you all for the sound advice. I've taken my finger off of the 'buy' button and will make do without a jointer for the immediate future.