Sliding tablesaw uses

[bill bruno]

Hi folks,

This is my first post and I would like to thank everyone for all the great guidance! I’m contemplating purchasing a combo sliding tablesaw/shaper. During my research a salesperson stated a slider is really only necessary if one is using sheet goods (the store mainly sells North American style tablesaws). I enjoy building mission style furniture. Sheet goods are cut with a festool tracksaw.

Can I benefit (and if so how) from a slider if I manly build furniture? Thanks ahead for your help!

[Brian Cover]

I recently purchased a Rikon tablesaw with the sliding table. I think the factory sliding table is the ultimate in convenience and safety. No more fighting large pieces due to their weight and friction on the table. Put them on the slider and they roll on bearings so smoothly that it is no work at all. No more messing around with table extensions and stands to hold or catch large panels. What a joy to use. I was a little uncertain if they were a good investment before buying mine. Now, I think any table saw without one is an incomplete tool.

Woodcraft . com has them on special right now.

Edit to add:

This sliding table does everything that a cross cut sled can do plus more. Even cutting table legs to length is easier and safer than with a standard table saw.

[Frank Drew]

What Brian said.

[Robert Strasser]

It is true that a sliding table saw is great for cutting sheet goods. But I use my sliding table saw mostly for ripping and crosscutting solid wood.

The method I use to make rip cuts uses the sliding table, not the rip fence. The wood to be ripped is clamped securely to the slider making kick back impossible. I am also standing far to the side of the blade while pushing the sliding table with my hands far from the blade.

I have attached two pictures that give a closer look at my ripping setup. One picture shows a Clincher Fence Machine from Jointech that is attached to the sliding table. To rip a board I set the dimensions on the Clincher and the crosscut fence, clamp the board to the sliding table with two clamps, and push the sliding table forward.

I have more information on my web page that discusses my saw if you are interested: http://therobertstrasser.com

[Larry Edgerton]

I have both in my shop, and each has its merits. If I could only had one, it would be a hard choice. So I suggest you buy two...;)

[Peter Quinn]

I use the slider at work mostly for crosscutting solid stock to length. There is no cross cut sled I have seen that can compare to even a small slider in terms of safety and convenience. Repeatable accurate cuts are a sliders forte. A BIG slider can also be a great asset for sheet goods. Salesmen tend to sell what they have the most of or know best. I'd bet a Felder salesman would sell you a slider!

The ripping issue opens a can of worms, and opinions vary greatly on the subject, but you can rip on either a standard cabinet saw or a slider (using either the fence or the carriage). I prefer to rip on a cabinet saw, having both is nice. In my home shop I have only a cabinet saw and would definitely have gone with a slider if I knew then what I know now. And having a slider/shaper combo? Well that just rocks. Sliding shaper plus a sliding saw is a great combo, and I know of no standard cabinet saws with a sliding shaper built in!

[Joe Chritz]

I don't use a sliding table saw. I have used a sliding table attachment for a cabinet saw but it truly isn't in the same class.

I don't think there is a direct comparison from a cabinet saw to a true slider. Different work styles to do the same thing. I can tell you I have never heard or thought of any real downsides to a slider once past the price. They are very safe because of the design.

A sliding shaper is the bomb and if they don't interfere with each other or change quickly it could be very handy.

Joe

[Brian Cover]

I enjoy building mission style furniture.

Here is another advantage:

My slider has stop built in to it. I can cut each leg exactly to the same length without remeasuring anything. I can set a stop so when cutting tenons my distance between tenons is exactly the same with no remeasuring needed. As mentioned, the piece glides across the blade so smoothly, it literally takes all the work out of cutting and eliminates all frustration of material sticking to the cast iron while trying to hold it to a miter.

My slider has a huge built in miter. It is over 30" long. It uses a 3/8" pivot in bushings. While it is not for making 8 sided jewelry boxes like the Incra, it is easy to adjust and having a 30" long fence on a miter that glides, makes woodworking easy and the built in adjustable stops make everything repeatable. Repeatable accuracy is the key to quality furniture construction as you well know.

[Mike Wilkins]

I went from a Unisaw to a Laguna slider and the difference is amazing. There is a learning curve to using a slider, but the journey was worth it for me. There is no comparison to a shop-built crosscut sled for safety, repeatability, crosscut capacity and just plain coolness (is that a word?).
There are not a lot of jigs on the market for sliders, but most wood butchers are a crafty lot, and can come up with some neat ones.
Like the Incra incremental jig. Thanks.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a small sliding saw/shaper (Hammer B3 Winner).

There are often many negative comments regarding ripping on a slider however I find that the slider is superior for ripping for the following reasons

- you can straight line rip, and rip using the slider

- you can rip using the fence exactly as you would with a cabinet saw.

I also make Arts and Crafts furniture, so a small slider is ideal for me.

In addition a slider can act as an additional support at the beginning of a rip, and follow through as an out feed support at the end of the ripping operation.

Regards, Rod.

[Brad Shipton]

Bill, there is nothing you can do on a conventional table saw that you cannot do safer and more accurately on a slider. I also own a B3 S/S. I am currently making parquet flooring on mine, and it is great to be able to clamp parts rigidly to the table and complete the cuts with my fingers away from the blade. If you can afford it, go for the S/S.

Brad

[Jim Becker]

During my research a salesperson stated a slider is really only necessary if one is using sheet goods (the store mainly sells North American style tablesaws).

Pardon me while I chuckle a little...:p

With the exception of my tack trunks, virtually all my woodworking is with solid stock and you couldn't pry my slider away from me. Yes, I had to learn some new techniques for some things, but I also found ways to decrease steps in my working, too.

For example, I rarely pass the edge of a board across the jointer. I straight-line rip boards after face jointing and planing to thickness by clamping them to the slider wagon and making a steady pass at moderate speed. That edge is perpendicular to the face, straight as an arrow and doesn't have the almost microscopic scalloping that the revolving jointer/planer knives will leave behind. Yes, a little time is spent in setup, but the end result reduces one machining step and eliminates one or more sanding steps...or all of them if I take a very sharp hand plane to finish the surface of the edge off. I parallel rip anything three inches or wider using the slider wagon, too. This method also means that I can easily orient the wood's grain to the cut line rather than settling for the original edge of a board having to follow along a fence.

Cross-cutting components is dead accurate with the miter fence attached to the wagon...I only use my CMS for roughing out stock now, for the most part.

Some setup time brings the benefit of very accurate and very repeatable results. I like that. And I also like the safety of a slider...when the wood is clamped to the wagon, one's hand never is anywhere close to the blade, nor is one's body in the "line of fire".

[Charlie Kocourek]

Does anyone have experience with the Jess-Em sliding attachment and experience with a true slider? The Jess-Em looks like such a high quality piece of equipment. How does it compare?

[Noah Levy]

Does anyone have experience with the Jess-Em sliding attachment and experience with a true slider? The Jess-Em looks like such a high quality piece of equipment. How does it compare?

Been there. Many many problems. Just make yourself a couple of nice cross cut sleds in various sizes and consider yourself lucky for not taking the bait. I have a Felder slider and the JessEm slider simply doesn't perform anywhere near the cost and headache involved. And, don't forget, once you cut your fence rails it's your puppy.

[Rod Sheridan]

Does anyone have experience with the Jess-Em sliding attachment and experience with a true slider? The Jess-Em looks like such a high quality piece of equipment. How does it compare?

They're not in the same universe.

I tried out the Jessem with a large piece of MDF, the table sagged, end of story.

In addition, the edge of the slider is a fair distance from the blade, so you lose half the functionality of a real slider.

I don't have a high end slider, I have a lower end one, a Hammer B3 Winner. No such issues with the sliding table, it works great.

My advice would be to save for a real sliding saw.

Regards, Rod.

[Richard Link]

I can comment on a direct comparison of the Jessem Mast-R-Slide attachment and a true slider. I originally mounted the Jessem table to my cabinet saw and used the unit for about a year. I recently (8 months ago) upgraded to a Felder cf741p with a 9 foot slider. Yeah...I know. Not a fair comparison, but you asked for it.

Honestly, there really isn't any comparison in terms of usability. The Jessem unit is very nicely made, finely machined, etc. Its just much too small to use for most activities and I can't really recommend it too highly. The Jessem is much more in the vein of replacing a crosscut sled for your saw. I enjoyed using the Jessem but it never really changed my method of work very much. It was far too small to use for significant sized sheet goods although it was nice for crosscutting solid lumber.

The Felder sliding table is akin to woodworking crack. Sorry I had to say it. This thing is 9 miles ahead of any cabinet saw I've ever used. I can honestly say that having the slider has radically changed my workflow and made it quite a bit more enjoyable. Part of that, of course, is that the machine is very high quality but just having a 9 foot sliding table to work with (and an outrigger) is a radically different experience. Its great for sheet goods, solid lumber, rough lumber, you name it. Just having a movable carriage and a consistent 90 degree reference frame takes away a lot of the frustration. The combination of the sliding table and vacuum clamps means that I rarely am even in the same time zone as the spinning blade. Very safe. I traded up from a Sawstop and, frankly, I feel safer with the Felder by a substantial margin.

At any rate, a couple of take home points IMHO:
1. The jessem is nice but isn't in any way akin to a true slider.
2. The Jessem probably isn't worth $500 unless you really have a specific use for a tiny, pint sized sliding table (ie you hate making or using a crosscut sled).
3. A true slider will give you religion if you let it (which isn't necessarily a good thing for the wallet...).

Hope that is of some utility.

Rick

[Curt Harms]

I'm not.....I'd look into this as an alternative to SawStop
http://www.factorynew.com/Detail.aspx?recnum=PS-300686
Downsides it's a pretty unknown brand and the slider only travels 53" so using the slider to rip would be limiting. Upside is no proprietary electronics, no false fires so no blade/brake replacement and hands are far away from the blade while using the slider. Too bad the table doesn't have more travel.

[Tommy Squires]

I have a large Technomax slider (in the MiniMax family) but have spent most of my life using cabinet or contractor saws. As has been said here, this really isn't a fair comparison. Like pro athletes, they are just playing a different game than the rest of us. Solid stock or sheet goods, the only downside is the initial expense. It was painful to pay for this machine but it brings a smile to my face every time I use it.

All that said, there is a learning curve. Unlike cabinet saws, there isn't a large universe (that I have found) of shop made appliances that are detailed in your favorite magazines. Rarely will the latest tip directly translate to your situation but the precision, safety and convenience more than makes up for it.

[Tom Rossman]

Great information on this thread. What are the merits of the 3 phase versions of these machines versus the single phase? My assumption is that you would get more power going three phase but have lower resale value if you ever sell.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, 3 phase machines are more efficient, they use less electricity than a single phase motor to perform the same work.

3 phase motors also have the ability to be run from a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) which is a rectifier/inverter that allows you to change motor speed electronically.

In a home shop, a single phase machine will be more than powerful enough, most machines are 3 or 4 Kw single phase.

If you want electronic variable speed, the 3 phase machine can be run from single phase power, if designed for that. That can be a nice, but costly option for a home shop.

If it's for industrial use and you have 3 phase power, buy 3 phase equipment.

Regards, Rod.

[bill bruno]

Hi folks,

Thanks for all your great inputs! Richard, like you, I will be upgrading from an ICS SawStop. I really like the SawStop (owned # 12 off the production line since ~2005) but because of back issues I need a saw which is easier to work ergonomically than a traditional na saw. Too bad SawStop does not make a slider!

Sliders seem to make work much easier without the need for so many additional heavy and awkward (at least for me) jigs.

Again thanks to all! later bill

[Richard Link]

Good luck Bill. Certainly the slider will be easier on your back. With mine, even a full sheet of plywood can be easily mounted to the carriage and driven through the blade accurately and essentially with minimal effort. Really nice design.

I'd make a case for the vacuum clamp option if you go the slider route. I bought an aftermarket solution for the Felder (Big squeeze clamps) and they really are a tremendous upgrade. Since they are so easy to use and versatile, I essentially never run anything through the saw that isn't clamped in some way to the carriage these days.

Tommy does make an excellent point, though. There really isn't that much educational material out there in the woodworking web universe on the use of sliders. I'm basically reinventing the wheel in my own shop, and I'm sure I could greatly benefit from some expert guidance if there was a source out there covering advanced slider use, jigs, etc. You'll discover that all those jigs, fixtures and methods of work that you honed on your cabinet saw will just not compute when you've got a sliding table (for better or worse). There are some good pointers in the forums, though.

Keep us in the loop on your final decision. If you decide to go the Felder route and need any help with accessorizing the machine (hardest part with Felder), feel free to ask.

Rick