Need help making a sale

[Betsy Yocum]

I've been asked to make a jewelry box for a friend's wife. Not a tall order until he said what he'd like. Told him I'd try but no promises. So here's what he wants:

1) Must be square about 5-6"
2) Must be tall - about 12-15"
3) Must have a base with hopefully feet (false would be ok)
4) Must have a top with a decorative edge (not hard with a router bit)
and now for the drum rolll please..............
5) Must have 8-9 "drawers" that pivot from side to side.

He's essentially looking for a lot of jewlry space but not use up to much dresser top space.

Now in theory I know that the "drawers" or trays would have to have a rod to run through each one - with the rod being anchored in the base and the top. I figure that would be easy enough by adding a small block in the back of each drawer that the rod would run through.

Here's the question - how would you keep each drawer from dragging on the one above and/or below it and wouldn't I have to have some type of back to hide the rod. In addition, if you have a rod in the back - what would support the front?????:confused:

I'm not sure I've ever seen a box like this - but I'm sure someone here probably has.

I'd certainly appreciate the help. This would be a good customer to make happy as I'm sure he'd send other business my way. So any help you all can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks - Betsy

[Brian Hale]

I'd think some small plastic washers between each drawer would keep them seperated or perhaps some of those crafts beads. Maybe a tiny magnet to hold each drawer closed would be helpful also...

Brian

[Steve Cox]

The ones I have seen like this have a rod in the front. Let's say the rod is on the left side of the box. The drawers then pivot from the right and the front. Washers between the drawers will help seperate them but what will really keep the drawers from dragging on each other will be the tightness of the fit between the holes and the rod. I haven't built one yet but I hope this helps some.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you want to make pivoted trays, go for it. It could be very cool. However, conventional rectangular drawers would probably pack more storage space in the same volume. Conventional drawers would also mean there's less technology risk for you.

In the sketch below, notice all the wasted space in the rear corner behind the pivoting tray. A conventional rectangular drawer would make use of that space.

[Steve Cox]

I'm trying to upload a picture but I'm having trouble. I have never successfully done this. Any help?

On the design, the box should be constructed of one side, the back and a top and bottom. The pivot goes from top to bottom just inside the side. The trays then pivot out the opposite side and around to the front. That way the only space that is lost is the space for the pivot itself. I will try to upload a picture once I figure out how to:).

[Harry Rigg]

I was looking at the drawing Jamie made in response to your question and showed it to my wife along with your design parameters, and we're a little confused. The pivoting drawers don't save space on top of the dresser because you've got to leave the same amount open in the front anyway. As others have mentioned, you need either a case or a lid on each drawer to keep out the dust and the ocassional "inquiring" paws and/or fingers. A case is also the best way to support the pivoting rod. This time of year you have to consider the possibility of it being a present, but I'd also wonder if your friend's wife was aware of some of the design features. Perhaps she said she'd like a new jewelry box for Christmas and let it go at that. My wife said she would rather have the storage space in the drawer than the cool-looking pivots. Pivoting drawers sounds more like a "guy" feature to me, too.

Harry

[Norman Hitt]

Betsy, another design, somewhat similar to Steve Cox's post, would be to make the unit with only a base, Back, and a top with a steel pivot rod at each rear corner, and have the drawers alternately pivot from opposite sides so that if more than one drawer was opened at a time it would still be balanced, and the drawers/pivoting trays could still be square, (square minus the thickness of the back, and a Notch at the back corner for the opposite pivot rod. The holes in the drawers for the pivot rod MUST be snug but just loose enough to swing easily. A small magnet on each drawer would keep them closed. You can get slick, hard plastic shim washers at ACE hardware in their bolt section to use as spacers, and also use small brass tubing sections that will fit over the pivot rod to allow space for the every other tray method. If the trays are fitted Closely together, there should be no dust problem.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers and Saw Safe Norm

[Michael Stafford]

Betsy, as others have said the design you describe usually only has a side and a back joined at the corner and a top and a bottom. I have used little plastic washers and I have counterbored for little stainless washers at the pivot points, brass will also work depending on the wood used. Don't use plain steel, can rust and discolor wood.

My next and most important concern is does your customer know how small the drawers are that she is asking you to make? Will they accommodate the items she wishes to put in them?

5-6 inches is very small. If the drawers are made from 3/8" wood the interior shrinks to 4 1/4- 5 1/4". You could find it difficult to put some jewelry and watches in that space. With the number of drawers you mentioned there will also be little depth since a drawer bottom and any liinings also have thickness.

I find that when working with customers they don't always have the best understanding of space and although I try to give them what they want I make sure they understand what they are getting. Have your customer show you some of the jewelry and watches she wishes to store and see if it will fit in cardboard mockups of the drawers.

Just some food for thought... ;)

[Michael Stafford]

Actually the box can be made with a top, bottom and a back only. I actually made something similar not that tall though.

The top and bottom are firmly attached to the back. The support rod/s can be at one corner or both at the back. The drawers pivot from the back to the side opening fully outside the box. If you choose to have them open alternately from each side then you have to have wooden spacers in place to accommodate the drawer that is not attched to the pivot on that side.

[Steve Jenkins]

Betsy I'll be watching how this goes. I have to make a pair of three drawer night stands that work essentially the same way.

[Michael Stafford]

Betsy, one of Doug Stowe's boxmaking books also has a pivoting drawer design in it. Not at all like the one you describe but could give some ideas as to how he solved the problem. I don't have the book but I recall the box when I was thumbing through it at Woodcraft store recently.

[Ken Leshner]

Betsy, how about finding a chunk of wood with nice color and figure. Form it into a 6x6x12" block using a bandsaw, then slice it into sections. Hollow out each section with a bowl & tray router bit to form "drawers", put them back in order, and attach them using the methods above.

[Alan Turner]

Betsy,
Here is an ideal along the lines your customer suggested, but might allow more drawer and necklace space.
Use the pivoting drawers, shped like Jamie noted above, but make two banks of them, One would pivot from the right, and one from the left. That would leave a triagular sape void at the back, center. This might be a place for necklace storage.

I have always ingtended to make a jewlery box or two, and lord knows I have wonderful shorts of exotics I have saved for years, but this is an area in which I lack any experience.

For feet, if you want, Joel in NY has Brusso brass feet for this application.

As to drawer side thickness. I am pretty sure that 1/4" will be plenty stong, and 3/16", carefully joined, might work also.

Have fun as it sounds like a wonderful commission. I hope you charge enough.
Alan

BTW, I have the box book mentioned, and I think it is a weak offering. Some of it is a bit production, and not very exciting, in its orientation.

[Betsy Yocum]

Thanks for all the ideas guys. I'm thinking my friends wife has more jewlery than this type of box will hold. But he's pretty set on this idea. I've been putzing around with some of the ideas - will probably post a few pictures this week of what I've come up with.

I do think each level needs to have 1/2 trays with each swinging the opposite direction. This is testing my design skills for sure.

Big Mike - I found Doug Stowe's book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's going to help.

I'll let you all know how I come out. Back to the shop and the pine parts!

Betsy

[Carl Eyman]

Betsy, I'd consider making the base out of something heavy - Steel? Cover it with wood , of course. Balance then would not be a problem. Then the vertical post could be, for instance, a 1/2" vertical rod firmly fastened to the steel base. On said rod you could mount 8 or nine brass bushings. These are available from your local bearing store and inexpensive. These should be machined, or chosen, to be the right lengths for the height of the boxes. How to fasten the boxes to them is still a question in my mind. One alternative is in the back corner of each box wall off a section maybe 1" square. Drill a hole in the bottom of each box within this walled off area and fill it with epoxy entrapping the bushing. The bushing will be a close enough fit on the shaft so it won't be sloppy - hence no sag, it will turn freely, and I believe the epoxy will hold the bushing securely enough so the load will be no problem. Your major concern might be hiding all the hardware so the unit doesn't look like it came out of a machine shop rather than a woodworker's shop.

Wish I had a CAD program so I could easily depict the design. I'll be glad to try to explain further if you're interested.

[Norman Hitt]

[QUOTE=Carl Eyman] On said rod you could mount 8 or nine brass bushings. These are available from your local bearing store and inexpensive. These should be machined, or chosen, to be the right lengths for the height of the boxes. How to fasten the boxes to them is still a question in my mind. One alternative is in the back corner of each box wall off a section maybe 1" square. Drill a hole in the bottom of each box within this walled off area and fill it with epoxy entrapping the bushing. The bushing will be a close enough fit on the shaft so it won't be sloppy - hence no sag, it will turn freely,


Carl, with a size of only 5" or 6" square, and tall, there can't be very much load on the drawers, even full of jewelry, and my thoughts are that a 1/4" steel pivot rod that short should be more than adequate. As to attaching the brass bushings, just size them 1/8" shorter than the depth of the drawers and then drill a hole the size of the bushing's OD, from the bottom of the drawer to 1/8" of the top side, then drill the rest of the way through the drawer with a bit the size to fit the 1/4" rod, and press the bushing into the hole from the bottom and the 1/8" thick lip would hold it in place.

Another way to hold the bushings in place might be to use bushings the same length, or just slightly longer than the drawer thickness, and then use a "Flaring tool" (like plumbers use on copper tubing), and flare the bottom (or both ends) of the bushing after it is installed in the hole in the drawer.

Anyhow.........these were just a few thoughts that ran wildly through the Vast Empty space in my head.

Cheers, 'N Saw Safe.........Norm

[Carl Eyman]

I agree I probably was over building it. One factor that I think should be maintained is to let the bushings ride on each other. That is they are enough longer than the thickness of the boxes so they determine the gap between the boxes. Furthermore, Norm, I'm not sure I like relying on a press fit of the bearing into a 1/8" board to hokd the box to the bushing. How about putting both a top and a bottom to the tray in that corner? Say a 1" square on the top. Now the bushing would be supported at both ends. If we keep at it, we can get Ms Yocum thoroughly confused.

[Keith Christopher]

Betsy,


You may also want to look at some old commode (sp) designs. They were typically rounded on the ends with pivoting drawers. Might help inspire your design.


Keith

[Betsy Yocum]

All these are ideas are really helping. I think I might be getting closer to what he wants. So far I still have a square box/tray and the bushing idea is looking like the way to go between each box. The rod is currently in the corner - although the "corner" is actually rounded - (these are all cardboard at this point) the square corners don't give much room to pivot if there is going to be a back on the stack of boxes. I really think the system needs at least a back which would keep the box from swinging to far back when it's "closed". The rounded corners are going to be a challenge to make as well - but that's just another hurdle I'll have to figure out. There is also the option of having the back be about 1" short of covering the whole drawer - which would allow me to have square corners and would then make the box swing out but only so far as the back would act as a stop.

I've also experimented with the "split lid" concept that is along the lines of the jewlry box I posted here several months ago. But that has led to other problems - so I've pitched that one off to the side.

Personally - I'd rather see a box with four sides and a nice stack of pull out drawers - as someone said the box still needs more than the footprint on the dresser to work - it needs the space to swing out.

I'm going to keep working on this one as it's really a challenge - hopefully one I can live up to.

Once I get a bit closer to the design I'll go back to making a mock up in pine and will post a picture. I started with some designs in pine then decided that cardboard was much more economical and faster to make changes and move parts around.

Will keep you updated - please continue giving me your thoughts - it really is helping!

Betsy

[Norman Hitt]

I agree I probably was over building it. One factor that I think should be maintained is to let the bushings ride on each other. That is they are enough longer than the thickness of the boxes so they determine the gap between the boxes. Furthermore, Norm, I'm not sure I like relying on a press fit of the bearing into a 1/8" board to hokd the box to the bushing. How about putting both a top and a bottom to the tray in that corner? Say a 1" square on the top. Now the bushing would be supported at both ends. If we keep at it, we can get Ms Yocum thoroughly confused.

Yeah Carl, a press fit wouldn't do much in a 1/8" thick board, (I didn't explain it enough). What I was visualizing was that the drawers/trays were either solid wood, with the inside routed out to form the drawer depth, OR, a small solid block glued in the corner where the rod would go through the drawer and it would be the same thickness as the drawer. This would give enough meat for the bushing to keep the drawer aligned level. I also was not thinking of the bushings riding on each other, (metal to metal), but using the slick (hdpe I think) small almost clear spacer washers fitted over the rod between each drawer to give the small clearance needed between the drawers, and also because they are slick, the drawers would swing easily.

Lots of different and interesting approaches to this project, eh? I'll probably have a headache tomorrow from all this thinking.

Cheers.....Norm

[Betsy Yocum]

Yeah Carl, a press fit wouldn't do much in a 1/8" thick board, (I didn't explain it enough). What I was visualizing was that the drawers/trays were either solid wood, with the inside routed out to form the drawer depth, OR, a small solid block glued in the corner where the rod would go through the drawer and it would be the same thickness as the drawer. This would give enough meat for the bushing to keep the drawer aligned level. I also was not thinking of the bushings riding on each other, (metal to metal), but using the slick (hdpe I think) small almost clear spacer washers fitted over the rod between each drawer to give the small clearance needed between the drawers, and also because they are slick, the drawers would swing easily.

Lots of different and interesting approaches to this project, eh? I'll probably have a headache tomorrow from all this thinking.

Cheers.....Norm
Norm - I'm thinking along the same lines as the block in the corner with the rod being the same dimension as the box sides. I have to be honest I'm not exactly sure what a bushing looks like - but I was thinking of using small brass washers between each box to provide the swing factor.

With all these ideas, I'm pretty close to having the main system worked out I think. I did wake up last night thinking that the top might be to heavy if it's only supported in the back. Since it will be about 5" square and 3/8" thick -- will have to work on that - don't think this is big enough to warrant using several edge glued boards to make one board - nor big enough to warrant the work to make a torsion box - yikes - so many details !!!;) Another thought was to make the top box not swing - put a hinged lid on it instead - who knows. Will keep working at it.

thanks again for all the ideas! May have to give you all a cut on the commission!

Betsy

[Bob Aquino]

Betsy
My wife asked for a jewelry box for Xmas so I feel your need for ideas. Mine will be a simple box but will have a bookmatched mahogany top and the box will be veneered baltic birch.
Now for the relavence to your project. In trying to come up with some Ideas, I did a google search for "custom jewelry box" and got more than a few hits. Some of the pictures I saw did go along with what you described as the design of choice. Some of the designs were pretty far out, but they were good starting points for thought. If you havent already gone the google route, try it and see what turns up.

[Dave Richards]

This is what I envisioned Carl was describing.
http://www.woodshopphotos.com/albums/Dave-R1s-Album/jbox.jpg

Probably wrong but I think it would work. Bushings on a rod. Bushings fit into counterbores in the bottom of each drawer and establish the separation between drawers. Rod epoxied into holes in the top and bottom.

[Betsy Yocum]

This is what I envisioned Carl was describing.
http://www.woodshopphotos.com/albums/Dave-R1s-Album/jbox.jpg

Probably wrong but I think it would work. Bushings on a rod. Bushings fit into counterbores in the bottom of each drawer and establish the separation between drawers. Rod epoxied into holes in the top and bottom.
Dave - that looks great! I can't even get past drawing a straight line let alone a picture like this!! I get the idea of what you are talking about a bushing now - the picture reminds me of plumbing couplings -

Just out of curiosity - what program did you use to make this picture?

Bob - thanks for the google idea - that will be my next stop. Need all the ideas I can get. :)

Betsy

[Dave Richards]

Betsy, the drawing program is called SketchUp. See the design forum for a couple of threads on it. Very easy to use. I think that drawing took me all of about 10 minutes to do because I could draw an element and then copy it.

I get a tangled up in words--my high school English teacher probably shakes her head and gets out her red pen every time I begin to write. :D Pictures say it easier.

Glad if it helps.

Dave

[Carl Eyman]

Dave: I didn't know I could describe things so well. Yes that is almost exactly what I had in mind. You're a good listener.

[Dave Richards]

"Dave: I didn't know I could describe things so well. Yes that is almost exactly what I had in mind. You're a good listener."

Huh? :p

Carl, you're a good talker. :D

[Norman Hitt]

Norm - I'm thinking along the same lines as the block in the corner with the rod being the same dimension as the box sides. I have to be honest I'm not exactly sure what a bushing looks like - but I was thinking of using small brass washers between each box to provide the swing factor.

I did wake up last night thinking that the top might be to heavy if it's only supported in the back.

Another thought was to make the top box not swing - put a hinged lid on it instead - who knows. Will keep working at it.
Betsy


Betsy, I sure wish I could make pictures on the computer like Dave did, but I just have to sketch mine. Looking at his picture, another thought came to mind, that if you use a top, back, and base, and then put the pivot rod like he did on one of the front corners, that should make the top solid and strong.

The second thought I had is that if it is 12" or 15" tall, to give it enough weight at the bottom to make it stable when the drawers are opened, You might look for some Sheet lead like they use sometimes for flashing around plumbing vents, etc. This would be easy to cut with shears into a 4 1/2" or so square, that you could fasten under the base in a recess routed out for it. I think it comes in about 1/8" thick sheets, so you might have to cement in two or three layers of lead to get enough weight.

I'll post again if I have any more wild thoughts. It's been a Fun mental challenge. Is this what is meant by, "Design by Committee?? Or maybe "Hillary" would have said...........It takes a Forum to Design................! Ha!!
Gotta have a little Humor.........It's good for the Health.
Good Luck.........Norm

[Dave Richards]

Norm has a couple of good ideas there. A side and a back could indeed be added between the top and the bottom.

Weighting the base would be a good idea and sheet lead would be a good choice. An alternative to the lead flashing he refers to is decoy weights. They are strips of lead about 1/2x8x1/4 or so. I got some at a local hardware store to use for weighting the wooden rudder on my sailboat so it would stay down.

A recess routed on the underside of the base would allow placement of the lead. You could bed the lead in epoxy which would seal it up. If you make the surface flat and cover it with felt, no one but you will know it is there.

[Ken Leshner]

You could also buy a sheet of lead from McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com). A 4" x 36" x 1/16" sheet weighs about 4 lbs. and costs around $15. You could cut it into 4" squares and use as many as you feel are appropriate.

[Jamie Buxton]

This is what I envisioned Carl was describing.
Probably wrong but I think it would work. Bushings on a rod. Bushings fit into counterbores in the bottom of each drawer and establish the separation between drawers. Rod epoxied into holes in the top and bottom.

Any play in between the shaft and the drawer's hole will allow the drawer to sag. A little sag might be unnoticeable, but if the drawers sag different amounts, it'll be real obvious. In the extreme case, the sag could be enough that the far corner of the drawer rubs on the drawer below it. On the other hand, if the fit between the shaft and the drawer is too tight, the whole jewelry box will rotate when you attempt to open one drawer. Seems like real precision work.

[Dave Richards]

Jamie, you have a good point. Perhaps if, instead of only a bushing, there is a bushing and a small bearing like this
http://www.smallparts.com/images/bearings/BR1.jpg
pressed into the counterbore.

SmallParts.com (http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/BR-%20BMR.cfm) lists one with a bore of 1/4" and outside diameter of 5/8". It is BR04.

Edited because the picture of the bearing was way big.

[Carl Eyman]

Hey, how about making the base of marble or granite. Then you don't have to cover it with anything. I'm sure a counter top guy could drill a hole in it to hold the rod. Now, ready for this? Instead of making the trays square how about making Shaker round or oval boxes. You know the type. A thin piece of wood is wrapped around a relatively thick piece and fastened with one copper rivet. The thickness of the bottom may be the drawback. I'm not sure what the minimum thickness of the bottom could be, but if it were wrapped around a thick piece to form it, perhaps a much thinner bottom could be substituted after the side was dried. (I think they have to be wet to bend them.)

[Betsy Yocum]

Wow you guys are great with all these ideas.

Here is what I have so far - I've got my friend to take a 6" overall footprint. So the boxes will be about 5.5" square. The left back corner will have a small square that will be used to house a bushing/rod system. I'll experiment with a brass washer for additional spacing between the trays. The base will be solid walnut - 3/4 thick with "false feet" and I'll be adding some lead weight (I already have some lead from another project.) I plan to cut out a section of the bottom with a dishing bit and then add a cover over the lead weight so it does not show should anyone pick up the piece and turn it over out of morbid couriesty.

The back will be about 5.25" wide and set off to the right so that the box can swing to the left and have a natural stop when it hits the side of the back. The back will be mortise/tenoned into the base and top. The top will be 3/8" thick and have a nice profile around it.

My friend wants solid walnut. I'm trying to convince him that adding a contrasting color - maple, oak or ebony - will add some pizzazzz to the box. Hopefully, he'll go for it - in that case I want to edge the top and base with the contrasting wood and use the same wood as the box pulls. For the keys I want to use the contrasting color in a 3 tier pattern - contrast - walnut - contrast - I think that would really add some pop to it.

I hope to have a pine model by the end of the week or this weekend. Will post pictures - I think this is actually going to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

Thanks again for all your help.

Betsy

[Betsy Yocum]

Well to say this has been a challenge would be the ultimate in understatements. Everything I've tried with different size rods, different bushing systems, different thicknesses of wood (for the weight issue) has all bombed!!!! :( No matter what I've tried once I think I've got it I put some light weight in the box and just like that - failure!!:(

Sooo I was talking with my friend tonight and explained what I have done. He is still set solid on the box size - so we are going to try something else. He still wants the pivot type drawers/boxes. But we've decided to try "dust panels" Don't know if this will work or not. But here is the idea -

you would have the base then one box - then a panel 1/8" or so, then another box on up to the final top. The dust panel would have to be inset into a dado on both the back and side piece. I have manage to figure out that you can have two solid sides to the whole piece and still have a square box - you don't have to cut off one corner.

So anyway that's where I'm at. I really thought I was getting close - but any weight at all and the box sags onto the box below it - hence you can't open just one box at a time. I think the concept is a good one - but the boxes have to be smaller than what my friend wants.

I may never get this box made - but I'm learning stuff along the way so it's not a total bust. If I ever get one to be close to what needs to be I'll post pics - but so far all my attempts are not picture worthy.

Thanks for all your help and encouragement.

Betsy

[Dave Richards]

Betsy, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. I am afraid your dust panel idea might meet the same end. The drawer will sag onto the dust panel and the dust panel will sag onto the drawer below.

Have you tried a bushing at the top and bttom of the drawer? That shouldn't sag if the drawer box is rigid.

[Betsy Yocum]

Betsy, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. I am afraid your dust panel idea might meet the same end. The drawer will sag onto the dust panel and the dust panel will sag onto the drawer below.

Have you tried a bushing at the top and bttom of the drawer? That shouldn't sag if the drawer box is rigid.
Thanks for the sympathy Dave!!! Yep - I've tried the bushing on top and bottom seperately and together. The box is ridgid - 1/4 material with ply bottom and the corner piece that has the bushing and rod is 1.5" material. I started with an 1/8 rod - definetly to small and have moved up to 1/4" so that should be pretty ridgid as well.

I'm going to try the dust panels but I'm guessing that you will be right. I was really hoping I could talk my friend into a straight drawer box - but he's sold on this idea - and as he's a friend I feel obligated to give it the old college try. If the dust panels don't work - I think it's punt time though!!

Betsy

[Carl Eyman]

What clearance do you have between bushings and rod? I know this is a bear to measure, but I'd look for a fit in which you can feel little or no slop. This may mean finding someone with an expandable reamer to custom fit the bushings. Another thought (expensive) is to use ball bearings that are a press fit on the rod with the outer race epoxied to the box.

[Steve Jenkins]

Betsy, a thought or two on your dustpanel idea. Make the panel flat, not a rail and stile as you would typically see. On the top back corner of the drawer,the corner that will be traveling around the arc not the corner with the post, build it up just enough so you can put a thin piece of uhmw tape that will rub on the dust panel above.The dust panel below should have just enough gap below the drawer to put a piece of uhmw tape either on the bottom of the drawer edge or on the panel itself. These should keep the drawer flat and snug when rotating it although it may sag slightly when opened all the way.

[Michael Sloan]

Hi Betsy,

I have been working on a jewelry box design for my wife, similar to your project, so was watching your design process with interest. I and am sorry to hear about the difficulties, but am very pleased to have been able to learn from your experience rather than figuring it out by experimentation on my own.

I have been approaching the design from a slightly different perspective that may not be quite as elegant, but I think will be much easier to implement, and would meet your client's requirements. I have seen a couple of jewelry boxes like this previously, so can't take credit for the concept. Also, have not started building the box yet, so won't guarantee that I have thought through all the issues.

The case has three vertical components:

1) The back, which is fixed, and attached to the base and the top.

2) The left side,

3) The right side.

The left and right sides are "L" shaped, (or reverse "L" shaped) and wrap around to form the front of the case (one half of the case front is attached to the left side, the other half of the case front is attached to the right side. (Alternatively, the full front could be attached to one side). The case sides are attached to the back with hinges (either piano hinges, or regular hinges)

1/3 of the drawers are attached to the case back, and are fixed, 1/3 of the drawers are permanently attached to the left side, and 1/3 of the drawers are permanently attached to the right side, in an alternating fashion. All of the drawers are the same size, and are full sized. When you open the doors to the case, the drawers attached to each side swing out with that side.

This design has a minor disadvantage in that the drawers are not independent, so when you are getting something from a lower drawer, you have to reach beneath one of the upper drawers, but since there are two open spaces above each drawer when the doors are open, and since the drawers attached to the back are accessable from three sides, and the drawers attached to each side are accessable from two and a half sides, I don't think this is an issue.

Hope this is clear.

Mike

[Carl Eyman]

I think I've got it, Betsy. I just did some work in the shop that seems on right track. First I took a square piece of hardwood 13/16" square, put it in the lathe held in a four jaw chuck with a long 1/4" drill chucked in the tailstock. After predrilling the end with a center drill, I bored as deeply as possible (in this case 6+". I took the square out of the lathe, cut the stock into 1" long pieces, and strung them on a piece of 1/4" cold rolled steel rod. The only problem is they are a little tight - a little hard to turn. I chucked the rod in the drill press and one by one as the rod was turning held the pieces. This friction loosened them up some, but I shall probably have to rub the rod down with fine sandpaper or crocus cloth. I have started gluing 13/16" sides on the blocks in order to judge the sag, but as yet there is NONE. Maybe when I get them freer turning there'll be a little, but not the 3/16" I have between drawers.

Attention Picture Police: My camera is not yet back from repair so cut me some slack. Besides I have a get out of jail free card from Monopoly

Betsy, if you want me to mail you this mock up give me an address by PM or e-mail. I also have several ideas how to drill the holes and have them well located without a 4-jaw chuck on your lathe.

I believe your problem of sagging is solved and on the cheap.

[Betsy Yocum]

Thanks for all your ideas guys. Sorry it's taken so long to get back with you - hectic is the name of my life right now - have not even stepped into my shop this week to make a speck of sawdust:mad: !

Michael - sounds like your project is challenging. I printed your suggestion and plan to show it to my friend to see if he would like to explore that type of option.

Steve - I'm afraid I'm going to show my newbie status - I've not heard of uhmw tape. Is that something I can pick up at a woodworking store or where? As to the dust panel - I'm with you on the flat idea!!

Thanks to Carl for sending me a prototype in the mail. :D I appreciate the help for sure.

I did run across this funky little insert that I have no name for - but it gives me a pretty good grip on the rod - will try it and let you know the outcome.

Hopefully I will be in the shop some this weekend - family willing that is!

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!

Betsy

[Ron Schweitzer]

Betsy,
You could use brass tubing available at hobby shops, K&S is the brand I have seen. It is thin walled and very precise, the tube with 1/4" ID would be 9/32" OD. You could drill a 9/32" hole in a block of wood and then glue this into a corner or you could just epoxy the tube into the corner.
The tubing is available in 12" and 36" lengths, it can be cut with a small pipe cutter and the ends trued and trimmed to length in a drill press with a file. The ID is about .002" larger then 1/4", a 1" long tube would give very little sag, about .020" or less in a 5" box.
I would use 1/4" drill rod for the shaft, it has a very exact size and a polished finish. You should be able to get it at a machine shop in 36" lengths for a few $, KBC has it for $1.76. It is not hardened yet and can be cut with a hacksaw.
HTH
Ron

[Carl Eyman]

After doing a lot of thinking about Betsy's problem, I decided I wanted to try making a Jewelry box. This one will not satisfy Betsy's customer's requirements, but it does work. Included are in progress pictures. The base shown is just a piece of plywood. I think I'll use a rectangular piece of walnut with a steel plate inset in the bottom side. The four trays and the one top are 5/4 mahogany. I'll finish in a traditional color using grain filler and Fuhr's 355 satin. Notice one of the trays has been routed out. The cavity will be about 7/8" deep and lined with green felt. A piece of 1/4" steel rod is held vertically in the base on the left side of the pictures. It will be epoxied into both the base and the top. Each tray is threaded onto the rod. The fit is loose enough to allow free turning, but it is not sloppy - a running fit- is what I think the machinists call it. The trays will have one or two washers between them made from .0010" shim stock.

I think whether the piece will be attractive or not depends on how good a finish I can get on the mahogany.

Since work is still in progress, all suggestions are welcome.

Can Betsy sue me for stealing her idea?

[Keith Christopher]

Betsy,


I've been thinking about this while I was sick. I think the basic problem is not the drawers themselves but the way they're being attached. The spacer/tube is a good idea, but why not have the rod move and not the box. BElow is a crude MS paint example of what I mean. Let me know if this makes no sense



Keith

[Carl Eyman]

Keith, I'm afraid I am not visualizing this well. If the rod turns, does that mean all drawers turn as a unit?

[Keith Christopher]

No, think of it a round mortise and tenon, the drawer is firmly attached to it's own piece of the rod and the tenon in the rod fits into the mortise of the rod above it. Leaving enough space for movement of the drawers. A hole can be drilled down the middle of all these rods and a "stiffiner" with perhaps a nut on the bottom to tighten it up when needed and stiffen the whole assemble. This will also allow for easy removal of broken drawers for replacement or repair.

[Carl Eyman]

OK! good clarification. but isn't it a bit elaborate? I'm accomplishing the same thing by just drilling a hole.

[Keith Christopher]

Well I'm thinking of the slop in the drawers. In this mortise and tenon one with a top on it, as long as the drawer is affixed solidly to the rod it's attached to the stiffness would keep droop to a minimum I think. Yeah it is similar to what your saying carl, I'm not taking away from your design at all. just adding my 2c. :)

[Carl Eyman]

Keith, of course, there ismalways more than one way to skin the cat. However, whatever may be the short falls in in my design they have nothing to do with too much play in the journal or bushing. In fact, I'm having to work to get enough clearance. That is what the brass shim stock washers are all about. I have to separate the drawers so whatever slight warp, twist, or cupping they might have won't have them rubbing on their neighbor. That is the reason for the bead molding also. It is to hide the gap between the layers. It won't be much more than 1/64" at most, but I wanted to disguise it as best I could. I've enjoyed this chat. It's the kind of thing I come here for.