Flat-Top Pen problems

[Bob Janka]

This mere apprentice pen-turner humbly beseeches the vast wisdom of the great pen-turners here at Saw Mill Creek ...

I made a couple of flat-top (aka Americana) pen kits (bocote & cocobolo) and have some problems.

I managed to fix the wood length on the top barrels to 1 13/16" (minus ~ 1/64") after I had taken off only 1/16" from the 2" length. Disassembly was an interesting experience!

Now, I find that the top of the bocote pen keeps falling off when I use the pen. Are there known issues with these tops? How about any suggestions on how to fix this?

I would love to sell these, but I don't feel right selling a pen with a known problem. If I can fix it, then great. Otherwise, I now have a "sample" pen to show species, plating and style. :}

Cheers,
Bob Janka
- glad that I'm sticking to the straight-line models for now...

[Scott Greaves]

Hey Bob,

Which kit are you using? (Where did you get it, and is it a twist pen or rollerball or fountain?) It makes a difference on how much lee-way you have.

If you mean the metal part in the top of the cap keeps falling off, that's the finial, and you can glue it in with a spot of CA glue.

I don't think there's any inherent problems with this style of pen - not anything that isn't inherent with all the pen kits, like inconsistency of manufacture, inconsistent useage, things like that. They're nice pens, and you do get better at it as you go along.

Scott.

[Bob Janka]

Scott,

It is the Flat-Top Double Twist (Titanium Gold) pen from Berea Hardwoods. I am referring to the entire cap (top barrel - including finial, clip, wood barrel/tube & center ring) which seems to slide off whenever I move around at my desk. Of the two pens, the wood on this one is right at 1 13/16" if that makes a difference.

I must say that I am very impressed with the feel of this pen. It has a good heft and is well balanced (when the top stays on ;-). I love the figure of bocote (black/yellow). I've got a tiny knot which I positioned on the lower barrel near the writing tip which looks really special.

By the way, let me thank you Scott for suggesting HUT's Crystal Coat. I'm putting on 3 coats and this finish really makes the figured grain pop out. It is smooth and silky. I can feel a real difference between the warmth of the wood and firmness of the metal.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers,
Bob Janka
:confused:

[Scott Greaves]

Hi Bob,

You are welcome for the suggestion of the Crystal Coat. If I didn't suggest it before, try some Renaissance Wax after you're finished and it's all put together. Rub a little on, wood and metal parts both, let it dry some, and wipe it off. It makes a big difference.

I have not made that kit as a double twist pen. Ken will know more about the specifics of that kit because he uses it, and knows it's tricks. I have been using the Berea 2000 kit in rollerball and fountain pen, and the length of the top barrel is not as critical. But I hear the top barrel length is much more critical on the double twist.

No, don't glue the whole cap on with CA glue! ;-) The cap falling off may have something to do with that "critical length" thing I mentioned above. I really can't imagine why it would be falling off though. Most of the double twist pens I've been involved with have had a pretty positive grip on the transmission.

Berea has, overall, a pretty high standard for their kits. That still doesn't mean they can't have a lemon occasionally. You could always call Jim at Berea. He knows pretty much everything about these kits, and what causes what. He's also a pretty nice guy.

I would like to see a picture of your pens. I love to look at other people's pens. It gives me ideas.

Scott.

[Ken Salisbury]

Bob,
I have read you posts over and over again and I am confused as to what is happening. I have made a couple hundred FT American Double Twist pens (all from Berea kits). The top of a RT screws on to the bottom - so I don't know what you mean by:

Now, I find that the top of the bocote pen keeps falling off when I use the pen. Are there known issues with these tops? How about any suggestions on how to fix this?

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<IMG src="http://www.klsal.com/flat.jpg"></p>

The twist holder is threaded to match the threads in the Center Ring. The only way the top could come off is if the twist holder came out of the lower barrel. I ALWAYS apply a small drop of CA glue to the twist holder when inserting in the lower barrel to keep that from happening if someone tries to pull the top off instead of unscrewing it.

The only inherent problem (if you want to call it that) is the critical dimension of the top portion of the pen as depicted by this drawing (which I have posted previously to describe this problem to Dennis Peacock). That also applies to the Round Top Euro kit

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<IMG src="http://www.klsal.com/Euro set-up.gif"></p>
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If I am missing something here -- let me know ! !</p>

[Bob Janka]

Ken,

Thanks for the reply. Now I understand why you and Scott are confused about my problem.

I did not follow the assembly instructions correctly. I assembled the lower barrel with the nib on the far end and the coupler on the grain match end.

I then screwed the twist mechanism to the coupler, inserted the finial holder (with clip and finial) to the top end of the upper barrel, and pressed the upper barrel on top of the twist mechanism. I see now from re-reading the instructions that I should have inserted the finial holder into the end of the twist mechanism *before* inserting the holder into the top end of the upper barrel.

At this point, I think I need to call Berea and talk with Larry about how to recover. I should be able to remove the finial holder, but that will take a little effort.

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,
Bob:o

[Ken Salisbury]

You might have to replace the twist mechanism after you drive it out of the upper barrel (more likely than not). Get Larry at Berea to send you a couple spare twist mechanism. You might -- and I say might have to grind the finial off in order to drive that out of the upper tube -- talk with Larry and he will help you solve the problem --- and remember --- "when all else fails - read the instructions".

[Scott Greaves]

Hey Bob!

See what I mean? Ken is the Master of all things "Berea"! He has probably made THOUSANDS (maybe even MILLIONS) of each one of their kits!!! I just knew he would know how to take care of your problem (and that he might even share it with you!). As a matter of fact, I wish I had my looks and his skill - I'd be a winner! :D

Don't feel bad about making mistakes on your pens. I make mistakes on all my pens - it makes my customers feel smart when they find them! :D

(Just Kidding, JUST KIDDING!!!) :D

Scott.

[Bob Janka]

Folks,

I took Ken's advice and called Larry at Berea Hardwoods. He and I discussed the problem. In the end, he is sending me some extra finial studs and extra twist mechanisms. I found him to be friendly and very knowledgable. I like the fact that he just had to ask my zip code and he was able to get my address information from their computer. Lest I forget, I must thank Nancy who has taken my orders with cheerfulness and efficiency. Berea Hardwoods is a great company and will continue to get my business!

Scott, I picked up some Renaissance wax at WC, but have not yet had time to use it on my finished items. I'll probably do that as I get closer to our company's Arts & Crafts Sale next month. I will also take some pictures of my pens, pencils, toothpick holder, key rings, and perfume pendant and post them.

Thanks again to Ken and Scott for helping this eager apprentice pen-turner!

Cheers,
Bob

P.S. Ken, next time I'll read the instructions BEFORE assembling a new kit. :p

[Bob Janka]

Originally posted by Scott Greaves
...
Don't feel bad about making mistakes on your pens. I make mistakes on all my pens - it makes my customers feel smart when they find them! :D

(Just Kidding, JUST KIDDING!!!) :D

Scott. [/B]

Ok, Scott, I'll call you on this issue.

Just how perfect is "good enough" for customers?

I've had a few minor issues with some of my pens. One issue is some of the open grain on the Padauk pens I first made.
Another issue is some tiny chipping on the end of one of the barrels. A third issue is an imperfect fit between the wood and the nib or center ring.

The first issue I can explain as being part of the natural grain for that species. The second issue I've handled by orienting the clip over the chip-out. The third issue is a matter of taste, I think.

What are your thoughts? Does a pen or other turned product have to be "perfect" before offering it? I will mention any defects I know about when a customer is examining a pen, so don't worry about lack of prior disclosure. How would you long-time pen-turners handle these issues?

Cheers,
Bob
- inquisitive about "perfection" :confused:

[Scott Greaves]

Ahh - Perfection!

Like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder!

I think you should strive to accurately produce pens that meet your expectations without deviation. This means no mistakes! But you have to realize that perfection is a subjective fantasy. To some people, perfection in a pen would have nothing to do with any part of a pen we would produce!

So I suggest you determine what your expectations are in making pens. I like to have things that fit together as they should, without any noticable flaw in workmanship. This means I try to be as accurate and as carefull as I can be, so that there are no gaps in the fittings, and no chip-out. But when you're working with natural materials, like wood, the imperfections are often what is most appealing!

First of all, know that you will get better at turning your pens as you do it more! Yes, practice does help. The first four or five (or ten or twenty) pens I make in a particular style often show the signs of my inexperience with that design.

Second, know that the fixing of mistakes is an art form itself! What is commonly referred to as an "oops band" can be a very attractive accent to a pen. If you get too much chip-out at the end of a barrel, cut away about a half an inch of the wood, and glue on a piece of ebony, or Corian or whatever, and turn it down as a contrasting band. I have gotten adept at glueing a pinch of sanding dust into small holes in a pen barrel. If I hit a void I often fill it with crushed turquoise. Mistakes aren't necessarily failure, but rather a reason to find other ways of doing things!

Realize that if you are making pens to sell, time is money, and time spent fixing mistakes can be a bad investment. Sometimes you have to know when to chuck a blank and go on to the next one. But if you're making pens only for your own enjoyment, fixing the mistakes is a great learning process, and just feels good.

So, after all this wonderful BS, I guess the answer is - you shouldn't sell a pen that does not meet your expectations. But your expectation doesn't have to be "perfection" either. A handmade craft item like a pen doesn't have to be perfect. Machines make perfect pens, people make beautiful pens! If you are questioning if you should sell a pen because of a flaw in workmanship, then don't. You should be giving people your best efforts. Some people like pens with flaws in them - it shows they were made by a real human being. But whatever you do make sure it satisfies your expectations.

Have fun!

Scott.

[Ken Salisbury]

Bob.

Scott has given you lots of very good advice in his post.

Personally I do not display any pens for sale with imperfections. I reserve any that do have imperfections (that I either didn't notice or didn't want to go to the trouble to fix) as what I call "give aways". If you give a person a pen with a minor defect and point that out to them - chances are they will become either a lifetime customer or a very good bartender ;).

I also have a "lifetime guarantee" policy (my life not the customer's life :)). This has brought me many return customers and if I recall correctly I have replaced 3 pens in the last 2 years --- so the policy is a good investment considering the kit cost - and that fact that the labor had already been expended (your loss).

When turning a pen if I make a boo boo that will take away from the beauty of a pen -- I just turn it down to the brass tube, and reuse the tube in another blank. I also keep a few spare tubes on hand - just in case.:)
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Now - The Truth:

Since I never have any boo boo's or imperfections in my work --- I just don't sweat it

<IMG src="http://www.klsal.com/arrogant.jpg">

[Bob Janka]

Ken & Scott,
I find it amazing that I can learn so much about a hands-on skill like pen-turning via discussions with you two and others on the Internet! :cool:

Thanks for helping me understand the difference between "perfect" and "guaranteed" products. (Pardon me if I state the obvious here...) Yes, I have quite a bit of materials and labor invested in my bocote Flat-top Double Twist pen. However, the mis-match between the nib and the wood on the lower barrel prevent me from selling it (even at a discount). My budding reputation depends on "quality writing instruments" and this is sub-par. This is actually to be expected as it was my first effort at this style and only my 6th or 7th pen overall. I "might" give it away or keep it as a marker of where I started.

The good news is that the cocobolo FT DT pen came out great! Smooth fit, nice figure, silky finish! One bad, One good, 8 more kits to go! :)

Cheers,
Bob
pen-turner in "virtual" training :D