micro-coping micro molding

[Michael MacDonald]

I need to fit this piece:
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae20/miwmacdo/DSCF1074.jpg

into here:
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae20/miwmacdo/DSCF1073.jpg

by coping along this line.
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae20/miwmacdo/DSCF1076.jpg

I also need to do this eight times for all four legs. And no, my thumb is not huge... the molding is small.

Looking for suggestions. I started to carve out the first piece with a utility knife, but the moding was hard to hold and I was darn near coping my finger... I am going to make simple miter cuts for the open corners with the table saw--I found the glue-line rip blade makes the best cross-cuts on this size. (I even bought a 200-tooth blade to try, but still lots of chipout.) But right now, I am starting with the trickiest part first.. though I may not feel that way if my miters don't meet up seamlessly.

Thanks!

(Odd that these small pieces turned into such large pictures... I wonder how to make smaller pics... maybe it is my oversized camera? I hope not too cumbersome to view.)

[Frank Warta]

If I was trying to do it, I'd probably make a cardboard or hardboard template of that radius, than cope a much longer piece, than use a thin kerf hand saw to cut the piece to length. I'm not sure you'll ever be able to safely work on a piece that small. You could also use some turners tape to stick it to a larger piece of wood and try using a band saw to cut the radius. Even as much as that double stick tape sticks I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with a piece that small even if it was stuck to something larger I'd be afraid it would come loose.

[Carpenter Mark]

You can use a chisel to cut a miter into the bullnose piece you're coping around; it will also give you some room on the post to glue the molding to. But fitting to an inside miter in that situation could be tedious at best and easy to overcut with the chisel.
Use a very fine tooth coping saw blade and a round file to make the fit first and cut the outside miter second so you have something to hold on to. I'd make the cut on a tablesaw with a miter sled so the piece does'nt fall into the blade slot and go flying.
And stock up on paitience.........;)

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I'd either sand it with sandpaper over the matching molding or perhaps start the curve with a small drum on my Dremel tool then finish with the sandpaper.
Mind your fingers! Good luck

[Richard Wolf]

Why are you cutting them to size first. Cope a long piece that you can hold on to, after it fits, miter it to length. I would use a dremel sanding drum.

Richard

[Bill Huber]

Could you get a jewelers saw, it is just a little coping saw.

I would think if you can cop with a coping saw then you could do really small coping with a jewelers saw.


http://www.amazon.com/Grobet-Jewelers-Frame-Throat-Polished/dp/B0000WTA5Y

[mike holden]

This one is simple, since it is a round cope.
Start with a longer piece of molding and use a forstner bit of the right diameter to cut the cope, then a razor saw to cut to length.
You may have to make a fence/support for the molding to hold it steady while you drill out the cope, but some scrap will make that easy.
Mike

[bill mullin]

Why are you cutting them to size first. Cope a long piece that you can hold on to, after it fits, miter it to length. I would use a dremel sanding drum.

Richard
The sentence in bold print says it all. It will be easy to cope if you do this.
When you go to cut it to length, pay attention because that short piece will probably want to fly off into space. To lessen this tendency, I make a sacrificial fence and table (a couple of 1x's) on my miter saw, a sort of zero-clearance deal.

[Gene Howe]

Saw a FHB video where a guy used a angle grinder to cope some crown. Don't know why a Dremel and drum sander wouldn't work on a long piece, then cut to length.

[Michael MacDonald]

OK… a summary of the ideas is below. I think the main point is #1. Thanks for all the feedback.

I had chosen to cut the miter on the TS because I wanted a dead-on 45 deg cut. I considered cutting the miter after the cope, but I figured I would never get it on the right line to fit the leg and that I would get wholesale chipout after the cope.
On second thought, I suppose that I could make this work, or at worst I would only have to shave a bit if I undercut… I will see what happens with chipout. So that is what I am going to do. I guess I could have figured that out prior to posting.

Out of all the coping ideas, I like the forstner bit idea--it sounds like the cleanest cut… then after this I could use a razor to angle the cut to fit tightly to imperfections in the bullnose cap. If that does not work, then I will probably look into getting a coping saw… cheaper than a dremel.

I think the challenge in cutting the miter by hand is that I won’t likely get a perfect 45 deg cut… if anyone has hints for hand-cutting a perfect miter outside of getting a high-end miter box, I sure would appreciate it. For now, I will try the TS… hopefully the molding will hold out… perhaps I can wedge it into a sled to minimize chipout.

Here is the feedback:

1. Small piece not safe to work… cope a larger piece, then cut the miter
- make a cardboard or hardboard template of that radius
- use a very fine tooth coping saw blade and a round file
- use a dremel sanding drum
- use a forstner bit of the right diameter to cut the cope; make a fence/support for the molding to hold it steady

2. Multiple options to cut the miter after the coping
- tablesaw with a miter sled so the piece doesn’t fall into the blade slot and go flying
- pay attention because that short piece will probably want to fly off into space; make a sacrificial fence and table (a couple of 1x's) on miter saw
- a razor saw / thin kerf hand saw to cut to length

3. Some options to try to cope the smaller piece as it is
- sand it with sandpaper over the matching molding
- start the curve with a small drum on my Dremel tool then finish with the sandpaper
- jewelers saw, it is just a little coping saw
- turners tape to stick it to a larger piece of wood and try using a band saw to cut the radius. (but high risk this will not work well)

4. Shape the rail cap in instead of the molding
- cut a miter into the bullnose piece you're coping around; it will also give you some room on the post to glue the molding to. But fitting to an inside miter in that situation could be tedious at best and easy to overcut with the chisel.
(note: if I had thought of this before I glued up the headboard, I could have used a roundover bit to do this... oh well)

[Michael MacDonald]

I forgot to note... no one mentioned a molding guillotine for the miter cut. Anyone ever use one of these? That might help with the TS tendancy for destruction...

[Tom Rick]

"cope" the fit to the dowel by setting up a sanding drum of the correct diameter in the drill press. (do this first on end of long stick of this trim)
If you wish you can set up a little track/troth to set angle and offset so you do not have to lay out- just offer stock to sanding drum and stop sanding when full cut has been made.

Build a micro miter box- just a simple fence and cut miter with a razor back saw- the model makers kind:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/razor_saw_set_2854_prd1.htm


Don't get any where near power saws for any part of the operation.
The draft from the spinning blade will pull in the piece and send it flying.

[Myk Rian]

Got a scroll saw handy?

[bill mullin]

"cope" the fit to the dowel by setting up a sanding drum of the correct diameter in the drill press. (do this first on end of long stick of this trim)
If you wish you can set up a little track/troth to set angle and offset so you do not have to lay out- just offer stock to sanding drum and stop sanding when full cut has been made.

Build a micro miter box- just a simple fence and cut miter with a razor back saw- the model makers kind:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/razor_saw_set_2854_prd1.htm


Don't get any where near power saws for any part of the operation.
The draft from the spinning blade will pull in the piece and send it flying.

Not to pick on your post, but it brings up something I forgot to mention in my first post.
I now realize the OP doesn't have a miter saw and so my advice doesn't apply to him, but other folks reading might benefit. And this may only apply to the use of a miter saw, as I have never used a table saw to cut miters on trim pieces.
What usually causes a small piece to be shot from the saw, is the piece getting caught on a saw tooth as the blade is raised after the cut. The cure is to hold the blade down until it stops rotating.

[Michael MacDonald]

Got a scroll saw handy?

no... annoying story too. a few years ago, I threw out a scroll saw that I had from my childhood. My grandfather gave it to me when I was young after he proved to "mom" that he could put his finger on the blade without getting cut... I got a kick out of that. It also had a built in rotary sander.

Bad decision. Still kicking myself, but in a different way. Kick, kick, kick.

Anyway, it is like pulling teeth to get a tool purchase approved by SWMBO, and I am angling for a small jointer... so I am trying to minimize purchases to wood, hardware, sandpaper and other consumables... the irony is that SWMBO made me throw out the scroll saw.

[Michael MacDonald]

[/B]What usually causes a small piece to be shot from the saw, is the piece getting caught on a saw tooth as the blade is raised after the cut. The cure is to hold the blade down until it stops rotating.

Bill-- right... I am a bit short on key tools. Ggood point on the cutting technique, though... I have seen this a few times as well on NYW, The advice is still for for a TS for various reasons... I turn off the saw if the small piece hasn't popped away... and I pull away to main stock rather than run it back throug the teeth.